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ICHIBAHN posted:Why the antiquated language, in this case and generally? Because it sounds cool.
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Mar 26, 2016 22:32
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Mar 26, 2016 22:58
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Relevant. How many Masons does it take to change a lightbulb? 20, as follows: 2 to complain that the light doesn't work. 1 to pass the problem to either another committee, Temple Board or Master of the Lodge. 3 to do a study on light in this Lodge. 2 to check out the types of lights the Knights of Columbus use. 3 to argue about it. 5 to plan a fund-raising dinner to raise money for the bulb. 2 to complain that "that's not the way we did it before." 1 to borrow a ladder, donate the bulb and install it. 1 to order the brass memorial plate and have it inscribed.
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Mar 26, 2016 23:03
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ICHIBAHN posted:Why the antiquated language, in this case and generally? Because the language is 400 years old, and can't be changed, because changing them would mean you're not practicing them, which would make you "irregular" and you would no longer have any grounds to change them in the first place (no longer being regular). Freemasonry is an initiatic tradition. This means that it follows a lineage and that all members become members by undergoing a ritual. That ritual was developed in ancient times and formalized or codified in the early 1700s. Since then, every member has undergone the same ritual, and it is that shared experience, along with the mysteries and moral lessons that the ritual teaches, which bind Masons as brothers. Changing the ritual in any form would break that line, and a man who underwent a revised or new form of the ritual could not look at me for example and say "ah, he's my brother, he has undergone the same ritual." That the ritual remains unchanged is very important to the nature of the fraternity as an initiatic order. Before any man can become an entered apprentice, they are asked if they are a man, free born, of lawful age, and well recommended. It is critical that they be all of those things because every single (regular) Entered Apprentice since the 1700s has been asked and answered those questions appropriately. The language is antiquated because it comes from antiquity. It is unchanged because to change it would be to fundamentally undermine the very foundation of it. Translations are vetted, and changes in ritual that occurred naturally over time have to be non-substantive. Some people might say "with" instead of "and," but the substance must remain the same. Changing "man," "free born" or "of lawful age" would all be substantive changes, and a person obligated under that substantively changed ritual would be something else, something not a Mason, because the very definition of a Mason in this case is someone who has undergone the ritual as it exists now. That's not to say I don't encourage people to do those things. If someone wants to take an obligation with a clandestine Masonic organization, or with some of the Lodges that allow women to join, or so on, that's good! If they benefit as a human being from that, that's fantastic! But they are not a Mason, and I cannot discuss with them as such. Does that mean I call them a jerk and scorn them? No, not at all. But I can't engage in "Masonic communication" with them (just as I could not engage in "Masonic communication" with people in my home state of WV when Ohio had derecognized WV and vice versa). There is a further, more compelling reason on an individual level that Master Masons know well and are compelled to follow, but I'm dubious about whether I can discuss it actually. As an institution, however, that's the main reason. Masons have lately undergone a lot of scrutiny for these requirements. The age of the institution, and an inability to explain to people why we cannot change a thing that we cannot even actually discuss with them in any kind of depth, make it difficult to explain these things. Even in writing this post I have to kind of skirt around exact reasons for things because of promises I've made. But I wanted to go a bit deeper in my answer than we usually go. Even though it's a question that comes up with fair regularity (usually about the "being a man" bit, this hits a lot of controversy these days), I still wanted to give you a good and earnest answer.
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Mar 26, 2016 23:30
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Appreciate the response
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Mar 26, 2016 23:38
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Paramemetic posted:Before any man can become an entered apprentice, they are asked if they are a man, free born, of lawful age, and well recommended. It is critical that they be all of those things because every single (regular) Entered Apprentice since the 1700s has been asked and answered those questions appropriately. From what I've read, wasn't there one more clause in that set of rules not too long ago and it was dropped? Maybe I'm wrong but... Specifically, it seems that it used to specify that you had to be a man, unmutilated (not crippled or maimed in any way), free born and of lawful age. (from what I can tell) I haven't figured out when exactly it changed, why it was removed (probably because it lost importance with the move from operative to speculative masonry), etc. Still have more reading to do, but I found it interesting. Just to point out that sometimes change does seem to happen. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Mar 27, 2016 |
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Mar 27, 2016 02:15
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Some of the AFAM lodges have a clause about "of sound mind and body" or "unmutilated" or so on. West Virginia still adheres to this landmark, for example. Historically it's necessary for an initiate or brother to be physically capable of undergoing the ritual. It's also important because a lodge historically should not have accepted brothers who certainly would be a tax on lodge resources, dating back to the guild days. This requirement isn't actually reflected in any ritual (to my knowledge - it wasn't in my EA or in the other EAs I've observed in a variety of jurisdictions) as the ability to perform the ritual is itself evidence of sound body. There was a movement away from that particular requirement for joining a lodge after World War 2, to accommodate the war-wounded. But this particular phrase hasn't been present in many lodges and isn't present as an ancient landmark, to my knowledge. Some grand lodges have it, some don't. Contrarywise to the idea that this is an instance of a monolithic change, it more goes to reflect the sovereignty of each grand lodge over its masonic jurisdiction.
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Mar 27, 2016 02:28
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We still have that. We initiated in our jurisdiction a man with no legs and only one arm a couple of years back. We play very loose with that requirement.
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Mar 27, 2016 03:34
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I became a member of my local blue lodge several years ago. I would attend the meetings and most cases I was the only one there so I stopped going.
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Mar 27, 2016 05:38
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Paramemetic posted:Some of the AFAM lodges have a clause about "of sound mind and body" or "unmutilated" or so on. West Virginia still adheres to this landmark, for example. Historically it's necessary for an initiate or brother to be physically capable of undergoing the ritual. It's also important because a lodge historically should not have accepted brothers who certainly would be a tax on lodge resources, dating back to the guild days. This requirement isn't actually reflected in any ritual (to my knowledge - it wasn't in my EA or in the other EAs I've observed in a variety of jurisdictions) as the ability to perform the ritual is itself evidence of sound body. There was a movement away from that particular requirement for joining a lodge after World War 2, to accommodate the war-wounded. This is spot on. I just had to conduct an investigation into a candidate who stated on his petition that he was %70 disabled. Our grand lodge (N.C.) leaves it to the individual lodges to determine if a man is fit, physically these days. Mostly, it is a holdover from old times, although I remember reading in old grand lodge minutes, where they denied membership "with great regret" to disabled members of the armed forces returning home from both WWI and WWII who were deemed unfit. I this case, they went by the letter of the law, without questioning the intent, and it's certain that scores of good men were turned away from masonry because of missing limbs, etc.
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Mar 27, 2016 14:22
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The original intent had much to do with the issue of welfare. Before the introduction of widespread social welfare programs, the local lodges and temples of fraternal orders and especially Freemasonry were expected to feed, clothe, and shelter the families of brothers who became too sick to look after them or who died. To accept men of obvious and severe infirmity meant, essentially, taking on a member who would probably never be able to support their brothers and who would need more support over time. While we still gave charity to disabled people, to bring in members who couldn't contribute to freemasonry-as-mutual-aid could be seen as weakening the internal bonds of brotherhood. Now that we aren't the first line of defence for the brethren's families against hardship, it's a much less important requirement.
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Mar 28, 2016 06:03
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Kilo147 posted:The Grand Lodge of Washington is aware of the events regarding the Grand Lodges of Georgia and Tennessee, and is extremely concerned. They will be issuing an emergency statement in 8 days regarding the matter at hand. I have yet to see this emegency statement, and having met with some higher ups last night didn't get the impression that the Grand Lodge had a plan to do so in the near future, essentially being told to bring it up in lodge if it bothered me.
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Apr 6, 2016 16:38
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Maksimus54 posted:I have yet to see this emegency statement, and having met with some higher ups last night didn't get the impression that the Grand Lodge had a plan to do so in the near future, essentially being told to bring it up in lodge if it bothered me. Just as well. Sounds like another GL that decided to give it a year and see if the issue clears without a lot of drama that just makes life suck for the brethren. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of back channel discussion that we're not privy to.
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Apr 6, 2016 17:22
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Maksimus54 posted:I have yet to see this emegency statement, and having met with some higher ups last night didn't get the impression that the Grand Lodge had a plan to do so in the near future, essentially being told to bring it up in lodge if it bothered me. I dunno what's up either. I'll check with the district deputy next meeting.
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Apr 6, 2016 21:26
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What's the most "out there" conspiracy theory you've heard about Freemasonry?
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Apr 7, 2016 03:02
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Animal-Mother posted:What's the most "out there" conspiracy theory you've heard about Freemasonry? The crazy guys in this thread saying we don't run the world
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Apr 7, 2016 03:49
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We had a guy insist to us for twenty minutes that we had created the modern political Tea Party for some nefarious purposes. He was really friendly about it, too. Like "ok but really. Come on guys. You can tell me."
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Apr 7, 2016 13:28
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I had a lady tell me I was in the "masonic religion" and she refused to believe otherwise.
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Apr 7, 2016 13:29
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We had this one guy who visited us during our once a year "open to all who are interested to look inside the building and learn a bit more about masonry" ask how far we were with the research on Atlantis and other secrets normally kept from the common public. Also he wanted to know if there were study groups for higher consciousness and how to achieve that through meditation. He was not exactly ridiculed but told that there was none of that. Later my wife, who was present as she wanted to see the building from the inside, told me he looked like that boy in second grade who was laughed at by his classmates but honestly has no idea why. All in all it was sad to see, and I still feel bad for the guy.
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Apr 7, 2016 14:08
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Keetron posted:We had this one guy who visited us during our once a year "open to all who are interested to look inside the building and learn a bit more about masonry" ask how far we were with the research on Atlantis and other secrets normally kept from the common public. Also he wanted to know if there were study groups for higher consciousness and how to achieve that through meditation. He was not exactly ridiculed but told that there was none of that. Also hello again thread, I had my interest in Masonry back in Texas derail horribly in the garbage fire of my life, but I'm getting back on track, ish. A couple of questions. One, I had completed an application but immediately withdrew it at a lodge in Texas. Is that going to pose any problems going forwards? (This was when the personal garbage-fire-of-life started, and essentially I could not participate meaningfully in Masonic life at that time.) Two, relevant to this talk of disability: While I can walk around fine, I have non-trivial injury to my right leg. I have not sought out the spoilers but I understand there's a fair bit of kneeling, and if I kneel on that knee I would probably scream in agony and I think a surgical screw might poke out through the skin. Is this the sort of thing folks are good about adapting with?
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Apr 10, 2016 01:15
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Nessus posted:Yeah you should have at least told him about the Atlantis group, dude! With a caveat that I'm not in your jurisdiction, I can tell you what I think would happen. With the withdrawal thing, I doubt that will be an issue, at the very most you might have to tell them why you withdrew your petition. The chances are extremely good that they will be able to accommodate your (relatively) small disability.
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Apr 10, 2016 02:02
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Nessus posted:Yeah you should have at least told him about the Atlantis group, dude! It will be trivial for them to let you kneel on the other knee, and there is actually very little kneeling overall when not performing the degrees.
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Apr 10, 2016 03:32
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Keetron posted:once a year "open to all who are interested to look inside the building and learn a bit more about masonry" How could I find out when local groups are doing this? I can't join because I'm a filthy atheist, but my granddad was a Shriner and I'm curious.
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Apr 11, 2016 13:37
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Depends on your locality but I would say the websites?
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Apr 11, 2016 14:50
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Tomorrow I'm heading to the George Washington Masonic Memorial in Alexandria, and will be taking a shitload of photos. I could put together an obnoxious effort post if y'all are interested.
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Apr 11, 2016 23:02
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Crossposting this from the Venting about Students thread, article is by a reporter who embedded in a company called Crowds on Demand that provides crowds on demand. The discussion there was about a kid who hired 30 character witnesses for a university discipline hearing but when I clicked through to the whole thing, holy poo poo. https://story.californiasunday.com/crowds-on-demand quote:THE TEXT SAYS to arrive at an address on California Street in San Francisco’s Nob Hill neighborhood at 5 p.m. on a Thursday. Like my previous Crowds on Demand gig, I have no idea what my work is going to entail. All I’m told is to wear a suit.
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Apr 12, 2016 01:12
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Emron posted:Tomorrow I'm heading to the George Washington Masonic Memorial in Alexandria, and will be taking a shitload of photos. I could put together an obnoxious effort post if y'all are interested. Yes please.
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Apr 12, 2016 11:27
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Ok, I've never attempted a phone post of this magnitude, so forgive me if it fucks up. All of these are some of the photos I took today. Welcome to the George Washington Masonic National Memorial!  The first and most obvious thing to talk about is the building itself. Namely, that it's big as hell. It was designed by Harvey Corbett, designer of some of the first skyscrapers in America.  The building is 9 stories tall and divided into two main parts. The central building is inspired by the Parthenon, while the upper section is inspired by the Lighthouse of Alexandria (fitting, since this is in Alexandria, VA). You'll notice that the lighthouse has three sections. The pillars in them represent the three original orders of architecture: the bottom section's pillars are Doric, the center's Ionic, and the top (being renovated right now), Corinthian. Masons funded this by donations alone. No debt, no public funds. As a result, the construction only happened when there was money for it, and the building took 12 years to complete. The main hall of the building is the actual memorial. It consists of a wonderful statue of Washington (donated by the De Molays!!!) flanked by pillars of the composite order.  Behind the pillars on each side are murals and stained glass portraits of Masonic figures in Washington's life. Here, we see the various lodges of New England, led by Washington, coming to aid the displaced citizens of Philadelphia after the Continental Army retook the city. In this way, the brethren acted in accordance with relief toward all, one of the three great tenets of their profession. Above, stained glass portraits of Benjamin Franklin, Dr. Joseph Warren, and General Mordecai Gist look over the memorial.  This mural shows the cornerstone laying ceremony for the national Capitol Building in 1792. The trowel Washington used in this ceremony was later used in other major buildings, such as the Supreme Court. Above, stained glass portraits of Robert Livingston, Elisha Cullen Dick, and the Marquis De Lafayette.  The original Alexandria lodge burned in 1872, but has been reproduced in the memorial. The chair in the East is the chair Washington was installed in. The Bible is from the late 1700s.  Several artifacts are on display. The clock here was in the room at the time of Washington's death. He died hard, from a rare form of tonsillitis called Quinsy. Basically, his throat swelled shut and he suffocated to death. His Masonic brother, Elisha Dick, was attending, and suggested a tracheotomy (a new and experimental procedure at the time), but was turned down. He watched his brother die in his own bed at Mt. Vernon, and when he passed, Dick removed the weight from this clock to mark the time. The trowel you see on the left was used by Washington to lay the cornerstone for the US Capitol building, and the gavel a replica of Washington's (the original is on display at Mt. Vernon.)  There is a lodge that meets in this building today. They require three references, since everyone wants to join this lodge. Their beautiful lodge room is open for public display.  I have many more pictures, so let me know if you're interested in more, and I'll post them.
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Apr 13, 2016 03:04
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That is beautiful, please post more
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Apr 13, 2016 03:56
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Seconded! I'm absolutely awestruck.
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Apr 13, 2016 04:26
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GL of WA finally had something to say, I am not privy to say much more than the official release though I understand there is a method to the madness of wait and see. The GL's facebook post as below: A Message from Our Grand Master, Most Worshipful Donald G Munks: One of the many lessons we learn in Freemasonry is that it is the internal, not the external qualifications that should recommend a man to be made a Mason. As to additional qualifications, those are clearly defined in the Washington Masonic Code, Section 18.02 ~ Every petitioner in order to be eligible for the degrees of Masonry must: A. Be at least eighteen years of age, B. Have the senses of a man, especially those of Hearing, Seeing and Feeling, C. Be a believer in a Supreme Being, D. Be capable of Reading and Writing; and E. Possess no disability in his body that would render him incapable of conforming reasonably what the Degrees respectively require of him. The recent actions by the Grand Lodge of Georgia and the Grand Lodge of Tennessee to exclude men due to sexual orientation and premarital cohabitation have cast an unwanted pall upon our beloved Craft, and are contrary to the wisdom of those who long ago forbade the interference of religion and politics from the administration of our Fraternity. It is well to remember that “a Freemason’s Lodge is the temple of peace, harmony, and brotherly love; nothing is allowed to enter which has the remotest tendency to disturb the quietude of its pursuits.” The actions of these Grand Lodges have disrupted that quietude. While I as your Grand Master acknowledge the Masonic sovereignty of Georgia and Tennessee to govern their own Jurisdictions, I disagree wholeheartedly with their actions as they are divisive in nature and codify an intolerance that is contrary to our Masonic principles. The Jurisdiction of Washington believes that Freemasonry is indeed the true import of the three great social treasures – Fraternity, Liberty, and Equality. Furthermore, the Jurisdiction of Washington welcomes & values the talents & capabilities of all men who meet our qualifications for membership. The design of Freemasonry is to UNITE men of every sect, country, and opinion; and to conciliate true friendship among those who would otherwise remain perpetually at a distance. We are stronger for that diversity.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:35
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Sorry about the delay in getting these up. I was traveling home yesterday. This is a better picture of the building that I grabbed on my way out. The symbol was a later addition to the grounds.  From the top of the lighthouse, you get a wonderful view of King's Street, which is where the original lodge was located.  This is an apron given to Washington in 1781 to commemorate his victory in Yorktown. He later wore it to lay the cornerstone of the Capitol in 1792.  You can see the apron in this portrait:  This is a flag given to Washington by his dear friend, the Marquis du Lafayette.  And finally, a better picture of Washington's master's chair.  I still have more, but the other pictures I have are less interesting.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:33
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That's beautiful as all hell, not going to lie. The quality of those artifacts puts ours to shame. Many charters issued in 1736 are weathered heavily with age or utterly lost, not to mention lodge furniture.
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Apr 14, 2016 17:19
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I'm sensing a theme:quote:To: Grand Lodge Officers, Past Grand Masters, Permanent Members, Constituent Lodge Masters and Secretaries, NH Masons, Grand Lodges of the Conference of Grand Masters of North America
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Apr 15, 2016 19:53
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Colonial Air Force posted:I'm sensing a theme: Has the GL in Vermont made a weighed in on this yet? I'm looking forward to petitioning later this year, and while I"m sure VT will have a similar take, it would make me very happy to know that my Grand Lodge is seeking men of good character regardless of their sexual orientation.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:10
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I skimmed through the OP and saw it mentioned but with not much specifics; how significant is someone being a 32nd degree Mason? My grandfather just passed away, I knew he was involved in Masonry but he never ever spoke about it despite us being close neighbors and spending a lot of time together during my childhood. His obituary mentions he was a 32nd degree Mason. Just curious as to the involvement level that suggests, was he part of the Illuminati or just a dude who put in his time and it's not an unusual accomplishment?
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Apr 17, 2016 02:02
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Bottom line is, 3rd degree is the "highest rank" there is. After you're a third degree Mason (Master Mason), you're free to join an appendant body. Think of those as extracurricular activities like chess club or something. You're not any higher rank, they're just extra Masonic things you can do. One of the appendant bodies, the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, confers 29 further degrees on you, culminating in receiving the 32nd degree. So, while a lot of people may talk about the 32nd degree like it's the be-all end-all of Masonry, it doesn't make a Master Mason any higher rank than any other. Hopefully that makes sense.
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Apr 17, 2016 18:40
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COOL CORN posted:Bottom line is, 3rd degree is the "highest rank" there is. After you're a third degree Mason (Master Mason), you're free to join an appendant body. Think of those as extracurricular activities like chess club or something. You're not any higher rank, they're just extra Masonic things you can do. One of the appendant bodies, the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, confers 29 further degrees on you, culminating in receiving the 32nd degree. Sure, thanks. So it doesn't imply he was necessarily high ranking in the organization, but he was certainly very involved and put in a lot of time at least locally?
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Apr 17, 2016 23:25
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Pellisworth posted:Sure, thanks. So it doesn't imply he was necessarily high ranking in the organization, but he was certainly very involved and put in a lot of time at least locally? Definitely! If he was in the Scottish Rite, I'm sure he was involved in plenty else.
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Apr 18, 2016 00:08
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COOL CORN posted:Bottom line is, 3rd degree is the "highest rank" there is. After you're a third degree Mason (Master Mason), you're free to join an appendant body. Think of those as extracurricular activities like chess club or something. You're not any higher rank, they're just extra Masonic things you can do. One of the appendant bodies, the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, confers 29 further degrees on you, culminating in receiving the 32nd degree.
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Apr 18, 2016 01:13
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