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computer parts posted:Interesting note: Attack of the Clones finished filming in September of 2000, and was released in May of 2002. So the Bush/ 9/11 parallels at the time were pretty much coincidental, or at least those anxieties existed pre-9/11. I think GL has been pretty clear he had Nixon in mind. Cheney and Rumsfeld are of course nixonian figures so it does work out.
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Apr 9, 2016 23:55
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:What Bravestothelamps wrote is fully accurate. TFA is about what Star Wars is not. Yeah I think this is right. It was a needed bridge to a modern, new story. Needed by Hollywood and capitalism.
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Apr 9, 2016 23:57
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I said come in! posted:He is a black stormtrooper who escapes from slavery, abuse, and brainwashing. Instead of just making him a pathetic shell of a human being, he is written as a character that is learning how to be human throughout the movie, he finds loyalty and friendship by the end, and there are hints that he is a jedi along with Rey. He is the most exciting character to me and I can't wait until the next movie to see more of him. what? finn never learns to be human, he's the most human person in starwars outside of jarjar and anakin from the start.
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Apr 9, 2016 23:58
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I said come in! posted:I forgot that we have a Count Dooku emote. Or Christopher Lee if you wanna be more accurate. I always think of that one dude at the meeting that obi wan spies on. He's fuckin ridiculous.
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Apr 10, 2016 01:03
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Elfgames posted:what? finn never learns to be human, he's the most human person in starwars outside of jarjar and anakin from the start. Perhaps (at the risk of arguing semantics) it'd be more correct to say that Finn learns to be a person, or that he discovers his own personhood. Finn starts out as one of a number of identical obedient drones. His first escape from the First Order is psychological. The very idea of having a name is foreign to him. Finn also has a very childlike view of the world. He is able recognizes his own personhood, but this recognition doesn't extend to the other enslaved troopers. He knows that the First Order and the Resistance are separate groups, and initially assumes that he must be Resistance by virtue of not being First Order. As he comes to understand that the political situation is more complicated, the idea that the persona he adopted as a Resistance member might be as insubstantial as his put upon persona as a First Order trooper becomes a significant source of anxiety. Finn is a largely defined by his anxiety and fears. It's his fear of death that initially causes him to challenge his conditioning, and it's his fear of being reconditioned that leads him to escape the First Order. These fears are what put him in opposition to the First Order, which doesn't merely threaten his life, but his still developing personhood. These fears also hinder him, and make him heavily reliant on his comrades. He needs Poe's help to escape the First Order Star Destroyer. He needs Rey's help to escape Jakku, and the Rathtar. When he's tested outside of Maz's establishment by an accusatory laser mace-wielding trooper (which might have well been the very avatar of the conformism Finn sought to escape) he is unable to defend himself. This all comes to a head when Finn is finally confronted by Kylo Ren, the epitome of the all-powerful faceless soldier. Only, Kylo Ren isn't faceless anymore; he's injured, he's trembling, and he's very human. Where Finn began the film recognizing his own personhood, here is able to recognize the personhood of his enemy, and it's this final epiphany allows Finn to fully engage Ren in combat, despite the threat to his life. In doing so he overcomes the fear which had defined him. I believe it's the most powerful moment in the film. More over, given the importance fear has in these films ("Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station." "Fear is the path to the dark side." "I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive.") it's perhaps the most thematically Star Wars moment of TFA.
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Apr 10, 2016 02:16
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Maxwell Lord posted:It is worth noting that MacGregor is playing a young Alec Guinness and Alec Guinness was suave as gently caress back in the day. It's also worth noting that Ewan McGregor is also fuckable and in the prequels. Just a reminder.
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Apr 10, 2016 02:22
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dialhforhero posted:It's also worth noting that Ewan McGregor is also fuckable and in the prequels. Just a reminder. Never forget.
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Apr 10, 2016 02:29
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Samuel Jackson and Christopher Lee are/were very fuckable, and they basically played reserved versions of themselves in the PT.
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Apr 10, 2016 03:16
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You know, BravestOfTheLamps rants made me realize one thing: none of the core "Republican" planets were ever shown on-screen until Episode I, where we were introduced to wealthy Naboo and Capital Coruscant. Throughout the OT, all the action takes place on the outskirts. That's huge, when you think about it.
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Apr 10, 2016 03:24
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MonsieurChoc posted:You know, BravestOfTheLamps rants made me realize one thing: none of the core "Republican" planets were ever shown on-screen until Episode I, where we were introduced to wealthy Naboo and Capital Coruscant. Throughout the OT, all the action takes place on the outskirts. Unless you count a static picture of Alderaan from space. But yeah, we didn't get to see what life was like there.
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Apr 10, 2016 03:26
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I kind of wish TFA had done a similar kind of focus switch. The OT is all about the outskirts, the frontiers, the lawless places. The PT takes place at the (collapsing) center of civilization, refined and wealthy, isolated (with Tattooine as a contrast). Maybe focus the action on the border areas between the Republic and the New Order?
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Apr 10, 2016 03:28
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Schwarzwald posted:Perhaps (at the risk of arguing semantics) it'd be more correct to say that Finn learns to be a person, or that he discovers his own personhood. Finn is a fully developed individual the moment we meet him though. This is the first time he's been in battle, and immediately knows he can't handle it. He's freaking out before the transport even lands. He's also quippy from the moment his helmet comes off. I don't mind the character, but his only arc is that at first he wants to run away, but then he finds a reason to stand and fight (a girl is the reason). edit: reading your post a little closer I think I agree more with what you're saying. I'd just say that his self perception is pretty static General Dog fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 03:30
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MonsieurChoc posted:I kind of wish TFA had done a similar kind of focus switch. The OT is all about the outskirts, the frontiers, the lawless places. The PT takes place at the (collapsing) center of civilization, refined and wealthy, isolated (with Tattooine as a contrast). The playing field seems to have Republic planets and watering hole neutral planets. Rogue One Teaser Trailer Thoughts: -Little box on legs guy makes two appearances. -She's wearing Imperial insignia in the last shot. She must be a secret agent. -The intonation of her criminal record feels like we're in a more refined theatre of conflict. -I'm digging the Middle East but wet biome. -Yay!
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Apr 10, 2016 04:06
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Has anyone noticed the crashed x-wing in the background of the samurai / stormtrooper grudge match
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Apr 10, 2016 04:20
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MonsieurChoc posted:I kind of wish TFA had done a similar kind of focus switch. The OT is all about the outskirts, the frontiers, the lawless places. The PT takes place at the (collapsing) center of civilization, refined and wealthy, isolated (with Tattooine as a contrast). I think Tatooine being there as a contrast – given that it appears in all three prequels, including big, important sections of the first two – sort of undoes how strongly the PT fits the pattern you're talking about. Particularly if you add in the wookie planet, the cloner planet, maybe the planet where they were making the droids, stuff like that. And in some ways, if you want a city planet that's a seat of power for the Empire, an equivalent to Coruscant from the PT, that's kinda what the Death Stars are.
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Apr 10, 2016 04:36
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Sir Kodiak posted:I think Tatooine being there as a contrast – given that it appears in all three prequels, including big, important sections of the first two – sort of undoes how strongly the PT fits the pattern you're talking about. Particularly if you add in the wookie planet, the cloner planet, maybe the planet where they were making the droids, stuff like that. Wookie Planet and Cloner planet still kind of fit: Kashyyyk is an important Republic world and Kamino becomes one thanks to giving the Clone Army. Even Geonosis is a heavy industrial world. As for Tatooine, it breaks the pattern of the rest of the PT, but helps underline just how little the Republic (as represented by the Jedi) care about the worlds outside it's reach.
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Apr 10, 2016 05:01
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Schwarzwald posted:The very idea of having a name is foreign to him. One of my favorite moments is when Poe asks Finn if it's okay if he calls him Finn.
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Apr 10, 2016 05:20
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So I've probably seen A New Hope hundreds of times. I just realized 30 seconds ago that Greedo has a loving mohawk. I feel like I just solved the Kennedy assassination or something.
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Apr 10, 2016 05:47
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This whole thread is Pants.
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Apr 10, 2016 06:03
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ecureuilmatrix posted:This whole thread is Pants. Why does this exist?
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Apr 10, 2016 06:05
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Raxivace posted:Why does this exist? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Breast
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Apr 10, 2016 06:18
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I said come in! posted:We live in a world where the Alien franchise exist, yet a female lead in Star Wars is crossing the line and shoving progressive liberal ideals down our throats. I blame that dumb rear end Ghostbusters reboot
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Apr 10, 2016 07:18
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Star Wars has managed perfectly without scenes like that before. A New Hope and Phantom Menace establish the same with much, much less. It's fixing what ain't broke. Please tell me this is a joke post. "This isn't how they used to do it" is not, in itself, a valid criticism under any circumstance.
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Apr 10, 2016 07:49
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Baronash posted:Please tell me this is a joke post. "This isn't how they used to do it" is not, in itself, a valid criticism under any circumstance. It is a good thing they stopped doing. This is bad.
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Apr 10, 2016 08:01
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Star Wars has managed perfectly without scenes like that before. A New Hope and Phantom Menace establish the same with much, much less. It's fixing what ain't broke. TPM establishes poverty/slavery in different ways. A New Hope doesn't depict either.
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Apr 10, 2016 09:10
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Steve2911 posted:TPM establishes poverty/slavery in different ways. A New Hope doesn't depict either. They both established character without disconnected vignettes, which was what I was arguing. Star Wars movies are concerned with characters together and their relationships. This is one of their strengths, and why Star Wars has such strong characaters. The rare moments of solitudes cap character interaction . TFA does this backwards, first with Finn and then with Rey. Finn is introduced distraught at death and violence, emphasized by extreme close-ups. Then there's the close focus on Rey's daily routine and its material realities. Which brings me to my larger, point: Have you noticed that Finn and Rey only regard their communities with fear and hostility? Finn sees a stormtrooper die, and is afraid for himself. Rey sees a scavenger woman who never got to leave. They're both pushed around by their boss. They hurt their comrades in self-defense. They only relate to outsiders as equals. They don't really belong to their communities, and not just because they're the odd ones out. As far as the movie is concerned, there is no community among the stormtroopers and the scavengers. In other words, Finn and Rey have no social context. This goes against the strength of Star Wars. Expanding on what I said above, characters in Star Wars always exist in relation to each other or their community, so their social context is always emphasized. C3PO and R2D2 are just one pair out of many droids, Darth Vader is the Empire's enforcer, we first meet Luke as the bratty teen of a family, etc. This is what gives Star Wars movies their intensity: audience members see mostly the exterior of the characters, so they have to relate to the characters as the characters relate to each other* (Luke and adult Anakin are exceptional since they become consistent viewpoint characters). This is partly why even people who hate prequels find them so memorable. This doesn't happen with Finn and Rey. You don't feel Finn and Rey. You feel for them. And since Star Wars movies aren't character studies, this is nothing more than sentimentality. They're more interesting when interacting with other characters. Consider if the first four minutes of Rey's introduction were cut and she'd first enter the frame rescuing BB-8, who was changed to become the viewpoint character for the scene. The audience would get to know her as BB-8 gets to know her: as a rescuer, as an average woman, as someone taciturn but caring, as the humanity of the scavengers. That would make her character more intensely felt, more striking. As it is, she's someone who has to be scavenger, and is entitled for more because we feel for her. The same goes for Finn: he's someone who has to be a stormtrooper, and is entitled for more because we feel for him. *This is probably why people hate Jar Jar so much. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 19:07 on May 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 10:24
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Steve2911 posted:TPM establishes poverty/slavery in different ways. A New Hope doesn't depict either. Those poor droids were captured and sold by slavers to pay for some cruel masters whims. 
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Apr 10, 2016 12:31
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Lampsacus posted:Rogue One Teaser Trailer Thoughts: I know this is a well-intentioned post but come on. In case you need a geography lesson go see how many Middle Eastern countries border the ocean. Here is a picture of the Middle East: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/PikiWiki_Israel_6320_Hadera_forest.JPG Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 16:51
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SirDrone posted:Those poor droids were captured and sold by slavers to pay for some cruel masters whims. Yeah, but were the droids fuckable?
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Apr 10, 2016 17:07
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I think the thing that TFA is missing most, more than a younger John Williams, or George Lucas' originality, is Ralph McQuarrie. I know that some of the designs here and there were cribbed from unused designs (and of course any legacy elements from the OT that carried over). But you can really feel it Han's freighter, Leia's transport, the entire look of Maz's cantina/castle (?), and other forgettable sets and designs that McQuarrie had a huge and incredibly under-rated role in the OT. The fact that Han and Kylo's meeting occurs in an exhaust shaft that is basically the exhaust shaft from Cloud City (my single favorite set piece in the series), but octagonal, shows just how bereft of good design ideas this movie had. McQuarrie was a really singular talent.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:19
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Jewmanji posted:I think the thing that TFA is missing most, more than a younger John Williams, or George Lucas' originality, is Ralph McQuarrie. I know that some of the designs here and there were cribbed from unused designs (and of course any legacy elements from the OT that carried over). But you can really feel it Han's freighter, Leia's transport, the entire look of Maz's cantina/castle (?), and other forgettable sets and designs that McQuarrie had a huge and incredibly under-rated role in the OT. The fact that Han and Kylo's meeting occurs in an exhaust shaft that is basically the exhaust shaft from Cloud City (my single favorite set piece in the series), but octagonal, shows just how bereft of good design ideas this movie had. McQuarrie was a really singular talent. Was Ren's shuttle an old design? That thing looks awesome. Also I disagree on Maz's cantina being forgettable. That shot where they pan down from the flags is awesome.
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Apr 10, 2016 18:11
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Jewmanji posted:I think the thing that TFA is missing most, more than a younger John Williams, or George Lucas' originality, is Ralph McQuarrie. I know that some of the designs here and there were cribbed from unused designs (and of course any legacy elements from the OT that carried over). But you can really feel it Han's freighter, Leia's transport, the entire look of Maz's cantina/castle (?), and other forgettable sets and designs that McQuarrie had a huge and incredibly under-rated role in the OT. The fact that Han and Kylo's meeting occurs in an exhaust shaft that is basically the exhaust shaft from Cloud City (my single favorite set piece in the series), but octagonal, shows just how bereft of good design ideas this movie had. McQuarrie was a really singular talent. I disagree. The film is sbsolutely loaded with inspired designs; from the cyborg mounts and hermits in Jakku (one of BravestOfTheLamps' posts has a picture of one with a downright adorable face), to Han's freighter mimicking Monstro (advanced by Rey meeting her surrogate father inside a metal whale, and the plan to fill it with smoke), to Ren's mask, to Starkiller's Cyborg Planet design, to the various aliens in the Cantina (I've already harped on my live of the FO's visual design). Some of the Jakku structures that we don't see for long also have a Ralph feel to them, as well. There are certainly areas where they could have done more, but I feel that they did plenty of unique work where it wouldn't impact the general themes (FO are basically required to be stuck in the past, for example). If its any consolation, the next director is a fan of the prequels, loves having villains with depth, and will have way more wiggle room for innovation now that FO is entering the "where did we go wrong" part of their arc.
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Apr 10, 2016 18:35
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:. This is partly why even people who hate prequels find them so memorable. I've never thought about this fact before. However, Clones is not memorable once Obi-Wan reaches Kamino.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:22
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Jewmanji posted:I think the thing that TFA is missing most, more than a younger John Williams, or George Lucas' originality, is Ralph McQuarrie. I know that some of the designs here and there were cribbed from unused designs (and of course any legacy elements from the OT that carried over). But you can really feel it Han's freighter, Leia's transport, the entire look of Maz's cantina/castle (?), and other forgettable sets and designs that McQuarrie had a huge and incredibly under-rated role in the OT. The fact that Han and Kylo's meeting occurs in an exhaust shaft that is basically the exhaust shaft from Cloud City (my single favorite set piece in the series), but octagonal, shows just how bereft of good design ideas this movie had. McQuarrie was a really singular talent. Rey's speeder, Kylo Ren's janky lazersword and avian shuttle, the look (if not the existence) of Starkiller, and BB-8 are great designs. Location design was very meh in TFA, lacking Lucas' push for novelty. McQuarrie's really great, but he was far from the only designer working on the Lucas movies and a lot of his stuff didn't make it into the films.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:30
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Neurolimal posted:I disagree. The film is sbsolutely loaded with inspired designs; from the cyborg mounts and hermits in Jakku ( Way too many creatures in the film have this droopy-nosed Jim Henson look and it made them look to samey. it also made it seem like they were going Hey Audience! This is a puppet and not CG!
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Apr 10, 2016 19:31
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They actually have the Falcon smash through McQuarrie's unused gate thing to Jabba's Palace. My favorite nerdy design cue was that the Falcon's square dish is a shrunk down version of the dish that was on the Tantive IV. It's fun because the original concept for the Falcon was scrapped and repurposed for the Tantive. Here's a good-rear end diagram I made way before the movie came out, there are surely better pics now: http://imgur.com/NFLakHn
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Apr 10, 2016 19:42
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Baron Porkface posted:Way too many creatures in the film have this droopy-nosed Jim Henson look and it made them look to samey. it also made it seem like they were going Hey Audience! This is a puppet and not CG! What are you talking about? There's like 1 droopy-nosed looking practical alien and it was in Maz's bar.  And why shouldn't they draw attention to the fact that they're puppets and not CG? They're loving awesome.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:45
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homullus posted:Rey's speeder, Kylo Ren's janky lazersword and avian shuttle, the look (if not the existence) of Starkiller, and BB-8 are great designs. Location design was very meh in TFA, lacking Lucas' push for novelty. McQuarrie's really great, but he was far from the only designer working on the Lucas movies and a lot of his stuff didn't make it into the films. People also don't realize how closely Lucas collaborated with McQuarrie. He didn't just give McQuarrie vague prompts and then use whatever McQuarrie came up with on his own. Usually they went through a bunch of preliminary sketches, which Lucas would critique and modify, before McQuarrie would produce the final concept painting: The Making of Star Wars posted:Describing their collaboration, Lucas says: “I have a list of about ten scenes that I want to have painted. He does a rough sketch and then I correct the rough sketch, and then he does another rough sketch and I correct that, and we keep doing it until I feel we’re close enough to where he can do a big drawing. So he does a big rough sketch just as big as the painting; I correct that and then he paints it. But Ralph also adds in an enormous amount of his own detail, his own textural and design elements, which are a great help. I just describe what I want and then he does it. I show him a lot of research material, a lot of things I’ve picked out, and he combines that with other things and invents a lot. These are some of Lucas's own original sketches which he showed to McQuarrie in their first meeting to give him an idea of what he wanted:  This isn't to downplay the huge influence McQuarrie himself had on the look of the Star Wars films. But you want to talk about the elegant simplicity of, say, the TIE fighter and X-wing designs? Well, they're a product of Lucas's gifted design sense at least as much as they are of McQuarrie's.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:52
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The puppet feature is awesome and I wish it was longer. I wish the entire behind the scenes were one cohesive piece like TPM. I didn't even know Warwick Davis was back - small cameo as one of the aliens playing that dice game in Maz's bar. And stuff like the giant alien with the yellow mechanical arms was a real person in there, the butt pig was real and even the drat mosquitos. So much good work.  Also cool to know they couldn't find a proper way to recreate Chewbacca so they just did what was originally done: knit the entire thing up and attach yak hair. Nothing else moved properly that wasn't knit. Like a grandma.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:58
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AndyElusive posted:What are you talking about? There's like 1 droopy-nosed looking practical alien and it was in Maz's bar. Why would you want to draw attention to the fact that they're not real? Doesn't that completely defeat the purpose?
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Apr 10, 2016 20:07
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