Aix posted:I dont really care wether his poem was Schmähkritik or whatever but I think its hella scary to prosecute people for things they said or wrote outside of a libel case. Who came up with that bullshit? This is libel, he literally said Erdogan were a goat fucker on national TV.
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Apr 10, 2016 14:48
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Aix posted:I dont really care wether his poem was Schmähkritik or whatever but I think its hella scary to prosecute people for things they said or wrote outside of a libel case. Who came up with that bullshit? Art. 1 Grundgesetz, auch bekannt als die Menschenwürde.
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Apr 10, 2016 14:49
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Randler posted:Art. 1 Grundgesetz, auch bekannt als die Menschenwürde.
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Apr 10, 2016 14:50
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But if Erdogan really hosed goats, wouldn't he be counted as animal?
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Apr 10, 2016 14:58
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GaussianCopula posted:This is libel, he literally said Erdogan were a goat fucker on national TV. Also, a paedophile. He called the Headturk of Turkey a paedophile.
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Apr 10, 2016 15:02
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Randler posted:Art. 1 Grundgesetz, auch bekannt als die Menschenwürde. Yeah well, doesn't Erdogan always say we Europeans shouldn't be so hung up on Menschenwürde. 
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Apr 10, 2016 15:07
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Is it even possible for a comedy show to produce libel? Also, I dont think the Würde-Grundgesetz counts concerning public figures, especially fascist extremists like Erdogan. Gotta be pretty hosed in the head to have your honor be attackable by words too
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Apr 10, 2016 15:09
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Making love with goats and diddling kids are serious crimes though, it's not just about honor. Also, as someone already said, you don't just get a free pass for adding "I'm just joking" or "I'm just asking questions" to every stupid or hateful thing that you say. IMO it should be decided by a judge,on a case to case basis, what is satire and what is libel. Optimally, the judge should have some basic training in humor and clownery.
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Apr 10, 2016 15:25
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waitwhatno posted:Making love with goats and diddling kids are serious crimes though, it's not just about honor. Also, as someone already said, you don't just get a free pass for adding "I'm just joking" or "I'm just asking questions" to every stupid or hateful thing that you say. Yeah, the things Böhmermann said about Erdogan are not satire, because they don't satirize anything. When comedians make jokes about Trump's small dick or the British premier loving a pig, that's ok because they like to talk about their dick and allegedly hosed a pig, respectively. But saying the same thing about Erdogan is not satire, just an insult. I think Böhmermann needs to man up and accept the punishment. He's trying to be a political artist like pussy riot or something, he can't chicken out when it turns out actions have consequences and doing illegal stuff will get you in trouble with the law. Edit: to clarify, I think his poem in context is an OK piece of political art, but if he intended it to just be a funny TV piece, he's an idiot. He's caused an international incident before, he knows how this works.
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Apr 10, 2016 15:48
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https://twitter.com/Podolski10/status/718066407955673088 https://twitter.com/bushido/status/718725097234829312
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Apr 10, 2016 15:54
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In defense of Böhmermann: while it's not inherently satiric to call someone a pedo and sodomite, in this case, it's calling a pedo and sodomite somebody who tries to use the legal system to avoid justified criticism. I (superficially) understood Böhmermann as making the point that Erdogan is entirely disinterested in what actually constitutes satire or not, he just wants to lock away everyone who somehow speaks up against him. Not saying that's a good or well-made point, but that was my first intuition. In summary, Sereri posted:Yeah well, doesn't Erdogan always say we Europeans shouldn't be so hung up on Menschenwürde. GaussianCopula posted:Well, if you want a deeper argument,
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Apr 10, 2016 16:01
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Aix posted:Is it even possible for a comedy show to produce libel? Also, I dont think the Würde-Grundgesetz counts concerning public figures, especially fascist extremists like Erdogan. Gotta be pretty hosed in the head to have your honor be attackable by words too Good job not reading the last page. There's actually a law that makes it worse to insult a president or similar.
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Apr 10, 2016 16:28
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Mithaldu posted:Good job not reading the last page. There's actually a law that makes it worse to insult a president or similar. $103 posted:Wer ein ausländisches Staatsoberhaupt oder wer mit Beziehung auf ihre Stellung ein Mitglied einer ausländischen Regierung, das sich in amtlicher Eigenschaft im Inland aufhält, oder einen im Bundesgebiet beglaubigten Leiter einer ausländischen diplomatischen Vertretung beleidigt, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe, im Falle der verleumderischen Beleidigung mit Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren bestraft.
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Apr 10, 2016 16:45
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Erdogan ist wohl ein ausländisches Staatsoberhaupt, wenn Wikipedia das politische System der Türkei zutreffend widergibt.
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Apr 10, 2016 16:59
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pidan posted:I think Böhmermann needs to man up and accept the punishment. He's trying to be a political artist like pussy riot or something, he can't chicken out when it turns out actions have consequences and doing illegal stuff will get you in trouble with the law.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:06
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Randler posted:Erdogan ist wohl ein ausländisches Staatsoberhaupt, wenn Wikipedia das politische System der Türkei zutreffend widergibt.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:17
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Cingulate posted:My reading of the sentence is that it only applies to people who are currently "im Inland", that is, Germany? No, it's -Head of states -Members of government that are currently in Germany on official duty -Leaders of diplomatic missions to Germany (generally ambassadors)
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Apr 10, 2016 17:23
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code:
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Apr 10, 2016 17:26
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Ok, I get it. I somehow thought it was to prevent diplomatic disasters like people calling for assassinations of high ranking guests currently in the country. Obviously, I would make a terrible lawyer.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:03
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Cingulate posted:Ok, I get it. I somehow thought it was to prevent diplomatic disasters like people calling for assassinations of high ranking guests currently in the country. Obviously, I would make a terrible lawyer. It honestly is written kind of badly. It could be made much more clearly so people could understand it without paying extra good attention.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:05
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Mathis Döpfner posted:"Vorneweg möchte ich sagen: Ich finde Ihr Gedicht gelungen. Ich habe laut gelacht. Das zu sagen ist mir deshalb wichtig, weil man in den vergangenen Tagen ja keinen einzigen Beitrag – egal ob anklagend oder für Sie parteiergreifend – über Ihren Text gelesen hat, der nicht erst mal, gleichsam als Captatio benevolentiae, betonte, wie geschmacklos und primitiv und beleidigend Ihre Satire über Erdoğan sei. Mithaldu posted:It honestly is written kind of badly. It could be made much more clearly so people could understand it without paying extra good attention. I'm a scientist, I surely know how to write in the worst way possible.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:18
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My Lovely Horse posted:Uh let's keep in mind that there are a few more steps on the road to any decision on punishment and we're not even at the stage where we're on that road yet. Right now there's basically "Turkey/Erdogan really wants to see him punished" and on some level this whole thing is all about how that alone shouldn't be enough. As far as I can tell he'll probably get some kind of punishment unless Erdogan steps in to drop the charges (he won't). Insulting a person in this way is a crime, especially if the insulted person insists on prosecution. That said I think it's unlikely he'll go to jail.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:28
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Okay, everybody keeps talking about punishment. Did I miss something and he already got convicted? Because my last information is that the he is under investigation. And that quite a step from actually being convicted of anything.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:44
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You know who is really hosed? The responsible ZDF editor who gave his/her thumbs up to broadcasting the poem initially. That person should probably look for a new job, because they will go nowhere in the ZDF.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:45
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I'm glad Germany is standing up to the theocratic Muslim hordes with a strong defense of individual freedoms and liberal values
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Apr 10, 2016 19:49
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At this point, it seems punishment for Böhmermann - of any form - would be great for his currently not so well looking brand.icantfindaname posted:I'm glad Germany is standing up to the theocratic Muslim hordes with a strong defense of individual freedoms and liberal values
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Apr 10, 2016 19:54
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Cingulate posted:This is too Poe for me. You have to admit it is pretty funny seeing Germans/Euros complaining that the Muslims don't share their values, etc, and then turning around and locking a guy up for insulting the dictator that Bundesmutti cut a backroom deal with
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Apr 10, 2016 20:17
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It's still not clear whether you're that dumb or making your own attempt at satire.
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Apr 10, 2016 20:19
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icantfindaname posted:You have to admit it is pretty funny seeing Germans/Euros complaining that the Muslims don't share their values, etc, and then turning around and locking a guy up for insulting the dictator that Bundesmutti cut a backroom deal with Noone's been locked up yet, and I'm pretty confident in saying that noone will get locked up
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Apr 10, 2016 20:19
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System Metternich posted:Noone's been locked up yet, and I'm pretty confident in saying that noone will get locked up What about Turkish journalists who are insufficiently eager to decry Böhermann?
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Apr 10, 2016 20:22
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Randler posted:What about Turkish journalists who are insufficiently eager to decry Böhermann? Well they're Turkish so why should we care?
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Apr 10, 2016 20:22
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Nothing brings our people together like some good old fashioned outrage over Majestätsbeleidigung.
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Apr 10, 2016 20:26
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az posted:Majestätsbeleidigung. Kaiser Wilhelm did nothing wrong.
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Apr 10, 2016 20:27
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Dieter Hallervorden getting in on the free promo sponsored by Erdogan. https://soundcloud.com/sunrockstudios/erdogan-zeig-mich-an
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Apr 11, 2016 08:02
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https://twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/719438182878691328
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Apr 11, 2016 17:11
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quote:Durch "Multikulti"-Politik hätten Leute wie Claudia Roth in der Silvesternacht in Köln im übertragenen Sinne "mitvergewaltigt", meint AfD-Politiker Markus Frohnmaier. Das ist keine unzulässige Schmähkritik, entschied nun das OLG Köln. Die Meinungsfreiheit ist noch nicht ganz am Boden.
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Apr 11, 2016 20:38
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http://www.jetzt.de/jan-boehmermann/kai-diekmann-faket-boehmermann-interview-auf-facebook I think no matter how you stand on the punchability of Boehmermann's face, Diekmann for sure is the bigger douche with this.
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Apr 13, 2016 11:08
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And B. is getting sued but they are also starting the removal of §103, but §185 will stay. Plus, if the suit drags out long enough, B may dodge 103. Good compromises all around.
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Apr 15, 2016 15:55
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It's got people sufficiently riled up that we interrupted an intensive three-day business conference today when someone saw the news on their iPhone as Mutti was giving her announcement.
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Apr 15, 2016 16:38
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Mithaldu posted:And B. is getting sued Thats up to the StA and not yet decided. Even if they go forward and indict him, the court could still tell them to get hosed and refuse to have a trial. The governments decision gives the prosecution the option to take it to court it's not a mandate to do so. quote:but they are also starting the removal of §103, but §185 will stay. Plus, if the suit drags out long enough, B may dodge 103. That would just mean he dodges the harsher penalties under that section, but he could still face a guilty verdict under section 185 (§ 2 Abs. 3 StGB).
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Apr 15, 2016 17:01
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