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Ammat The Ankh posted:The Waifu chart's gonna be the true epilogue. i'm ready.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:07
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So, did Vriska teleport all the kids in front of Lord English, causing them to die horrifying, off-screen deaths?
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Apr 13, 2016 20:09
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QuoProQuid posted:So, did Vriska teleport all the kids in front of Lord English, causing them to die horrifying, off-screen deaths? this except it was LE who died, basically
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Apr 13, 2016 20:15
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Here, have something unarguably better than the Homestuck ending https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysRIwlEBjuw
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Apr 13, 2016 20:16
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How did the kids kill Lord English if Jade still has her powers? Weren't both their powers linked to the green sun?
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Apr 13, 2016 20:22
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Right so the fuckin'. Where's that page gone? Alright here: Here's this look, it's blue. Blue house leads to the kid universe right? The one in the ending was red and so because of themes would have had had gone to the Troll universe but because the house is actually the juju and so made of magic retcon bullshit it instead turns white and leads to outside of Homestuck? Which they go into and the comic immediately ends okay cool that makes sense. But wait no because the clay versions of the four main kids get trapped so there's two of each of them? QuoProQuid posted:So, did Vriska teleport all the kids in front of Lord English, causing them to die horrifying, off-screen deaths? No it Maybe?
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Apr 13, 2016 20:22
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a cat on an apple posted:Given the nature of Homestuck, which followed in footsteps of the delivery of Problem Sleuth, it was destined to make any ultimate final boss fight seem underwhelming, because Problem Sleuth did it correctly where the ultimate final boss fight was half of the comic. I don't think, given the sheer size of Homestuck, anyone wanted 4500 pages of fighting the Condesce, LE, and fifty thousand Jacks. Given the decision to make the climax of Homestuck take on a more typical story-telling method of a final battle, the split between Collide and Act 7 was actually perfect. We got both parts of what exactly we needed: A nitty gritty brawl and a final non-brawlish climax to the fight, which gave us just enough information to understand (eight ball in the corner pocket). Given the turns the story took in Act 6, I don't think we could have had a better ending. Technically, if Collide wasn't a flash, it would probably have been 4500 pages of fighting (considering it was about a tenth of the total frames in Homestuck based on that silly little thing that condensed the entire comic into 11 minutes).
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Apr 13, 2016 20:24
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:The real question is this: is the ending bad enough that people will stop spending money on merchandise? I finally got around to buying a void pin pretty much right after watching it does that count? Speaking of merch news, we are in the worst timeline. They're making smuppets. Edit: Also I wonder, were most of you mad mad The Monster at the End of This Book didn't end with Grover fighting the Monster?
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Apr 13, 2016 20:25
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Ammat The Ankh posted:The more I think about it, the more I realize that it was impossible for Homestuck to have a satisfying conclusion at this point. Too many characters have been introduced to give them all a real resolution, too many plot threads and subplots to give each one a denouement, and too much background mythology to wrap up. the thing is that it was about the characters more than the plot (really, the plot is summed up in like 3 paragraphs on wikipedia), so wrapping up the original plot and saying "okay done" feels weird as poo poo I know that it's always "but people don't have narrative arcs" and yes that's accurate, but people also keep going until the point they die, characters have arcs so that the author can pick a point and say "okay this is a good place to stop writing about them" and not leave the audience feeling like they only got half a story After sleeping on it I'm not super incensed about it, I'm just salty about the lack of actual closure, just like I was about Dark Tower. I also don't know how much of it's a left-brain/right-brain thing-- I'm not a creative person. I can't write or draw for poo poo, and if you said "well let's see you do a better job on the ending" I would flub it terribly. But that's why I consume stories in the first place-- I want the author to tell me what happens, not for the author to stop 10 feet from the finish line and say "I've got nothin', bro, come up with your own ending." As soon as the thread shuts down I'm sure I'll just forget about Homestuck for a couple of years again until the internet detonates because Hussie mentioned that he might start work on an epilogue after Hiveswap comes out.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:26
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I'm still looking forward to Hiveswap. I like adventure games.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:27
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for some reason i thought the door in the end was like a fake juju door that lead them to caliborn but rereading the masterpiece that's (probably) totally wrong and I just misremembered what happened. So yeah I guess they just say yo lets go beat on the green rear end in a top hat child at some indeterminate point
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Apr 13, 2016 20:28
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Yrrzy spotted a neat connection in Act 7. http://yrrzy.tumblr.com/post/142736000075/if-people-are-still-confused-what-happened-with-le I can believe this. Lord English's whole deal was that he was predestined to be created, thanks largely in part to Caliborn stubbornly forcing it to happen, and so while he was unkillable, he was the cue stick in the universal pool metaphor. He pushed everyone around, and decided when the eight ball is sunk (the universe is destroyed). But now he's at the end of his timeline, and everyone has ganged up to take away his advantages. He's no longer the one in control. He's no longer the cue stick. He's now the eight ball.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:35
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DOPE FIEND KILLA G posted:for some reason i thought the door in the end was like a fake juju door that lead them to caliborn but rereading the masterpiece that's (probably) totally wrong and I just misremembered what happened. So yeah I guess they just say yo lets go beat on the green rear end in a top hat child at some indeterminate point I feel like this was the worst part of the ending. So many people seem to think the good stuff that happens doesn't actually happen, even though we are clearly shown the good stuff that will happen?
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Apr 13, 2016 20:36
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I like the Thanks For Playing shot. It is simultaneously addressing the viewer (because the whole conceit of MSPA is still that we're users playing a game), and also a message from SBURB to the heroes.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:36
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Zoolooman posted:I feel like this was the worst part of the ending. So many people seem to think the good stuff that happens doesn't actually happen, even though we are clearly shown the good stuff that will happen? I think the lesson here is that the end of your story should probably go at the end of your story.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:38
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One thing I liked is that the lotus symbol at the end was clear, as if to imply the new universe is completely free of English's influence. In other instances, it's been gray (when shown as part of the Bilious Slick the trolls made) or black (when Jack uses the lotus time machine thing). Even WK had a gray lotus with a white glow. The Ending lotus is the only example of a completely white one? IT IS MEANINGLESS HOWEVER MUCH LIKE ALL OF THE COMIC.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:45
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DOPE FIEND KILLA G posted:for some reason i thought the door in the end was like a fake juju door that lead them to caliborn but rereading the masterpiece that's (probably) totally wrong and I just misremembered what happened. So yeah I guess they just say yo lets go beat on the green rear end in a top hat child at some indeterminate point tbh this part didn't make much sense to me on first viewing, but anyone who thinks that they have to leave their new universe to deal with Caliborn's Masterpiece at some point is trying to think too linearly At the point where we end, we have a dead rose/jade/john from the universe Davesprite came from, a dead rose/jade/dave from the universe the final John came from, and a dead John from the universe the final John ended up in. There are a lot of doomed/destroyed/hosed universes floating around, so whoever pops out of the juju to fight LE are probably not characters we've ever seen onscreen (caliborn's masterpiece aside). I'm not as "into" the nuances as some people here so I'm sure I'll get shouted down if I'm wrong, but the idea I'm getting is that infinite universes aside, there were only ever two with Callie/Caliborn: One where Callie ascends, and one where Caliborn ascends. We never meet or even see any other ghost callies/caliborns (that I recall), despite huge numbers of ghost trolls and at least a couple of dead kids in [S] Terezi: Remember. Assuming that's the case, and knowing that John can jump from session to session nigh-trivially, it's not too far of a jump to assume: 1. In one of the doomed/failed sessions, John gets better control of his powers. 2. The kids all figure out where Lord English comes from, and John manages to accurately jump all of them to the moment of Caliborn's ascension in an attempt to retcon his Lord English shenanigans. 3. Caliborn jujus those alpha kids, and is jujued by the beta kids in return. 4. Both jujus are launched out of that session, and the beta kids live bittersweetly ever after, until/unless LE happened to pop into (his original) session again and gently caress everything up out of spite. And all of that has absolutely no bearing or meaning to the alpha kids who just opened the door.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:48
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:1. In one of the doomed/failed sessions, John gets better control of his powers. I though the whole deal with the retcon powers was that the deal John had to make with his denizen wiped out the Johns from all other timelines or something, and it was revealed that was the real thing that got John killed that original time Terezi tricked him?
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Apr 13, 2016 20:54
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:tbh this part didn't make much sense to me on first viewing, but anyone who thinks that they have to leave their new universe to deal with Caliborn's Masterpiece at some point is trying to think too linearly This is exactly how I read it. Also, it's notable that even in John's first use of the retcon powers, he generated a completely irrelevant paradox clone by interrupting himself. For all we know, it was that clone which went on to make the very important assault on Caliborn.
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Apr 13, 2016 20:55
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I'm pretty sure all other Johns and Roxys are dead as part of the terms of their deals with Nyx and Typheus, which I would imagine implicitly includes (John). I'd have to check the timeline on that though I guess. It seemed to me like the kids just jumped into Caliborn's Masterpiece post-ending. John's retcon powers can take him to anywhere in the story as well as its implied subsidiaries, so there's no barrier to that happening.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:02
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Saradiart posted:One thing I liked is that the lotus symbol at the end was clear, as if to imply the new universe is completely free of English's influence. In other instances, it's been gray (when shown as part of the Bilious Slick the trolls made) or black (when Jack uses the lotus time machine thing). Even WK had a gray lotus with a white glow. The Ending lotus is the only example of a completely white one? I interpreted the white lotus (and the white entry door) as being a symbol of the combined alliance of trolls (blue universe), Beta-kids (red universe) and Alpha-kids (green universe). In video games such as sburb, red plus blue plus green equals white.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:07
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Android Blues posted:I'm pretty sure all other Johns and Roxys are dead as part of the terms of their deals with Nyx and Typheus, which I would imagine implicitly includes (John). I'd have to check the timeline on that though I guess. After gaining his powers, John spins off a retcon copy in a true paradox. Remember?
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Apr 13, 2016 21:09
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Saradiart posted:I thought it was 0k. I too enjoy it when major villains are built up for several books and then die of food poisoning.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:11
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Zoolooman posted:After gaining his powers, John spins off a retcon copy in a true paradox. Remember? Yeah, but that John occupies a dead end of the narrative. He basically just disappears from existence after that, I guess.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:11
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thanks alot assbag posted:Yeah, but that John occupies a dead end of the narrative. He basically just disappears from existence after that, I guess. That John literally wishes that he hopes to be important to the narrative somehow, someday. It's just as reasonable as any theory that he was.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:13
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So will you change the thread title at this point?
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Apr 13, 2016 21:15
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HOMOSUCK THREAD FOR PITIFUL EMOTION CHILDREN.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:16
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The vision of the future was pretty nebulous and incomplete (a lot of characters and important events like the rebirth of the trolls missing) so it's unclear if that's supposed to be what happened or rather what would have happened if Lord English didn't gently caress everything up. Lord English appears depowered by the destruction of the Green Sun but we don't actually see any final battle, we're just left to assume they probably won because heroes probably win, but why assume that? Especially when the universe appears to end with no direct confirmation or closure in the form of an epilogue? The open ending has made a Bad End not just plausible, but more plausible than the imagined happy ending. And every theory about when and why the kids retconned over to fight Caliborn is terrible. Are they some kids from some "beta timeline" style retcon world and the kids at the lilypad never actually fight Lord English or Caliborn? Great, then apparently everything to do with the Dream Bubbles and final boss was irrelevant to the main characters' stories since they never intersected. Did the kids suddenly decide to fight Caliborn instead of going through the door? Why would they do that? Did they go live in the universe for a while then go fight Caliborn for some other reason? Why that? "For all we know it was that irrelevant (John) that went to fight Caliborn" is a terrible sentence and way to end a story in every part. Edit: The "Lord English actually won" theory is the Indoctrination Theory of Homestuck except actually plausible instead of just a spite theory in response to the creators' vagueness.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:16
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MORE IDIOTS TO KILL. IN MY DRAWINGS.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:16
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Oxyclean posted:I though the whole deal with the retcon powers was that the deal John had to make with his denizen wiped out the Johns from all other timelines or something, and it was revealed that was the real thing that got John killed that original time Terezi tricked him? I've spent longer than is worthwhile looking for that point in a sea of unnamed "==>" and haven't found that exact point, so "possibly", but as mentioned there's at least one clone John running around out there so who knows for sure. I just like the idea of "Caliborn didn't actually matter" as a stupid plot point to "John &co got bored in paradise one day and decided to get stuck in a juju for an indeterminate amount of time for shits and giggles"
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Apr 13, 2016 21:22
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Wow, Homestuck's finally over. God that went on for so long. I kind of tuned out in the final few acts, popping in every now and then to more or less catch up, but I really loved going through the first three, four acts of Homestuck. Everything before the Trolls was perfect; afterwards, the story got really weighed down, but I still found myself watching these final two videos with increasing awe. So it ends as it always was going to end. With a big ridiculous anime climax. I enjoyed the fight sequences immensely, I liked how a lot of "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" moments get thrown into each fight and they all have that zany feel that the ludicrous final battle of Problem Sleuth. I like that the characters, the main characters, all had great individual moments, and all of the weird side characters basically spend the whole climax getting slaughtered. It felt like it had something for everyone, from each various section of it's absurdly long narrative. I guess in the end it was always going to end with a new world being created and I'm glad that Hussie didn't forget along the way that he'd destroyed the Earth really early on. I really dug the Undertale reference, of course, that was rock solid. Good music, and the switch to true animation for the final episode really felt like we'd reached the pinnacle of production. His news post says he'd been planning this ending four odd years ago and I kinda believe it, but I'm glad Homestuck has remained successful for him. Overall, I think Homestuck remains one of the most truly groundbreaking pieces of media in existence. It really felt like an amalgamation of every corner of the Internet combined to form a truly multi-media narrative that could only really exist online, in the form that it exists in. It had humble origins and quickly grew into something really massive. The fact that Hussie's studio has actually fostered great talents like Toby Fox just goes to show that the whole enterprise has really been a marvelous success and a great testament to what can happen when enough passionate people come together to support something they love. Well played Homestuck. I was worried you'd never end.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:23
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Keiya posted:I finally got around to buying a void pin pretty much right after watching it does that count? I came here to post about the @#$@34 smuppet. Also  I approve of your literary reference.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:28
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I had a whole rant I was going to type out but what it comes down to is just two things: 1: Vriska Did Nothing Wrong in the end, which seems like a really lovely end to a character arc. It's really unsatisfying how a character went from "hey maybe assuming I'm always right and masterminding everything constantly isn't always the best idea" to doing the exact same thing as before but it being fine because it worked out in the end this time 2: It's been like four years since I think this came up in the story but wasn't there a fairly big thing with Dave about how he was destined to deliver the final blow against Lord English or hurt him or something? Did that just get dropped for whatever reason?
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Apr 13, 2016 21:37
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Acne Rain posted:So will you change the thread title at this point? To what. You realize this comic has gone on so long, I became and stopped being a mod on Something Awful during its duration.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:37
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Wrist Watch posted:2: It's been like four years since I think this came up in the story but wasn't there a fairly big thing with Dave about how he was destined to deliver the final blow against Lord English or hurt him or something? Did that just get dropped for whatever reason? He will come out of Vriska's juju with a sword alchemized with the omniscient cueball. So that will happen off screen.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:38
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Wrist Watch posted:I had a whole rant I was going to type out but what it comes down to is just two things: He iced Jack English in Collide. That counts, i.m.o.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:39
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I still can't believe how completely pointless Jane and Jake were and how completely left out of the story character wise Jade was compared to the other original four. Honestly outside of John, Roxy, Dave and Dirk and maybe Terezi and Vriska ever single character needed at least another few pages of SOMETHING to justify not getting shoved into the dead ghost pile.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:39
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Wrist Watch posted:1: Vriska Did Nothing Wrong in the end, which seems like a really lovely end to a character arc. It's really unsatisfying how a character went from "hey maybe assuming I'm always right and masterminding everything constantly isn't always the best idea" to doing the exact same thing as before but it being fine because it worked out in the end this time Ehhhh... I think the ending implies that Vriska died in one last heroic moment of grandstanding, along with everyone else out in the dreambubbles. It would be a pretty fitting: big and heroic the way she wanted, and people will remember her fondly, but she also doesn't get to live, whereas she'd get to if she was wiling to just give up the spotlight. But who knows. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the epilogue is the top secret Act 8 and it's all about Vriska.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:40
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Android Blues posted:He iced Jack English in Collide. That counts, i.m.o. But like The way I remember it was that his weapon was unique in that it was one of the few things effective against LE or something. Anyone could have killed Jack like that. I'm not crazy, right? Dave's weapon being specifically effective against Lord English was totally a thing, right?
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Apr 13, 2016 21:41
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It's magic Welsh English killing powers were vaguely alluded to on multiple occasions, yes.
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Apr 13, 2016 21:44
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