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Wow, even for Gundam Thunderbolt, episode 3 was unrelentingly grim. 
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Apr 16, 2016 00:19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAPF6NND70w So this is kind of amazing. 0083 might be a crap story but it's music is brilliant, and this cover doubly so.
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Apr 16, 2016 02:36
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Arcsquad12 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAPF6NND70w The Richie Kotzen and Andrew WK Gundam music cover albums are both legit.
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Apr 16, 2016 02:56
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Mordja posted:Wow, even for Gundam Thunderbolt, episode 3 was unrelentingly grim. Man, it was great. Good year for gundam.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:18
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Mordja posted:Wow, even for Gundam Thunderbolt, episode 3 was unrelentingly grim. Yep. Poor kids clearly slept through Professor Augus's lectures on proper shot placement. A couple things bugged me, though. 1) Holy poo poo, Thunderbolt does not do well by its female characters. I'll gladly cede that the manga might do better, been meaning to read it, but in the animation, the two named women with significant roles are a scientist who seems to primarily exist to feel sad as Daryl's limbs get lopped off, and Claudia Peer, who... well. Where do I start? I'd trust pre-engagement Sochie Heim with a command position before I'd give her a tugboat, and I'd gladly follow Atra Mixtra into hell before I'd think about signing up for anything that involved working with Claudia. She's portrayed as the most cliched Emotional Woman Who Can't Be Trusted To Make The Right Call I can imagine. When I first heard that Thunderbolt had the line "I WISH I COULD ORDER YOU TO DIE!", I assumed it was, you know, hatred. Like she's got a weird, complicated love/hate thing with Io, where she loathes him and needs him in equal measure, and as an officer, she has to keep her top ace alive while as a person she wants him dead and on fire. I can dig that. But no. It's just inability to Do Her drat Job, which Io, as a MAN, has to slap her out of. gently caress's sake. She even gets addicted to Space Drugs to cope with the pain, because this is REAL and EDGY. Then she gets killed for no purpose by one of her subordinates. Seriously, Thunderbolt. What the hell is wrong with you? 2)This one's much more minor, and much more My Issue, but I might as well mention it, while I'm here. I get the whole child-soldiers-sell-the-hell-of-war thing, but the Federation could probably invest their resources a bit better. Like, the Balls, I get. They're cheap, they only have to be a distraction, and they're easy to learn. Send a bunch of kids out in those, they'll perform admirably at their design goal of dying so important people can live, all for a bargain price. But they sent twenty GM Cannons and four Guncannons, all modified for the sector, and those are not the bargain basement Mobile Suit model. Hell, Guncannons are actually good. For what you spent on all of those suits, which accomplished basically jack/poo poo, you could have gotten a squad of vets an upgrade from basic GMs to Sniper Customs, or built another Gundam, or done something else that might have some payoff. You don't send expendable and untrained rookies out in expensive equipment. It doesn't help them, and it doesn't help you. Nice animation, though.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:29
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I'm guessing it was a thematic choice rather than a purely canonical one. I'd even be willing to bet it's a meta commentary on how many gundam shows are literally a bunch of kids in crazy prototype death machines.
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Apr 16, 2016 03:54
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chiasaur11 posted:Yep. Its a straight adaption of the comic.
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Apr 16, 2016 04:08
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Should have adapted Developers instead.
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Apr 16, 2016 04:09
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Machine gunning the escape pods was kind of a dick move, Io.
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Apr 16, 2016 04:14
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DamnGlitch posted:I'm guessing it was a thematic choice rather than a purely canonical one. I'd even be willing to bet it's a meta commentary on how many gundam shows are literally a bunch of kids in crazy prototype death machines. maybe. it still kinda bothers me. I recall everybody making a huge fuss about teenagers being aboard the white base and how young amuro was, and now I guess there are official...child soldier brigades. before this, I don't think the federation was ever portrayed as anywhere near that desperate. even if it's just thematic/meta it has the side-effect of making the federation look like even DUMBER idiots GulagDolls fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 04:18
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Developers pros: Cool Pilot Lady Not War At All Old Mechanic Brigade Janky Proto Zakus
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Apr 16, 2016 04:19
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*Fat lipsGulagDolls posted:maybe. it still kinda bothers me. This seems to be late in the war, so I'm not surprised to see kids. Half the human race has died after all, gotta conscript next years class. It's the same problem you see in WWII, which TB is cribbing from liberally. The production is finally up but experienced pilots are lacking from attrition. Zeon is putting maimed soldiers back to work and the feds are dropping kids into the grinder.
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Apr 16, 2016 04:25
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DamnGlitch posted:*Fat lips Eh. One of the running things about the late war in Gundam stuff is how the Federation's finally building up this core of aces, where the guy in a GM is probably a veteran badass, despite his comparatively crap suit. Meanwhile, Zeon's got cutting edge wonder-weapons, but they're basically shoving whoever they can find into them, since their best tended to get sent after the White Base, and that... that is not what they should have done with their aces. The fancy new mobile suits get drowned in a tide of GMs and Balls, because the Federation still had decent pilots. As for the thematic stuff, I can see how they might have been going for it, but it's hurt by the fact the kids aren't in fancy suits. They're in mass production models, same as we saw get wiped out to the last Jim in episode 1. You aren't getting a Katz or a Hatahway where the parallels to Amuro are played up before the big moment of "Oh, BTW, this is a loving WAR, KID. Welcome to hell." Instead, the kids are explicitly presented as meat for the grinder. Works for a WWII analogue, but it doesn't work at all for comparison to other Gundam shows, where the kid pilot is generally piloting something special.
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Apr 16, 2016 04:54
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Sharkopath posted:Should have adapted Developers instead. Also The Gihren Zabi Assassination Plot.
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Apr 16, 2016 05:36
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chiasaur11 posted:Eh. Remember that this is where the GM has seriously got off the ground, production-wise. The Ball was the Federation's Lee/T-28/(insert crappy British tank here), and this is their Sherman/T-34, the cheap-and-cheerful machine that wins them the war through sheer strength of numbers. The Federation also has an advantage in crew numbers, which has also always been shown - they won the One Year War because they were a whole planet against a bunch of city-states. Unlike Zeon, who put kids in Gelgoogs because they had nobody else left, the Federation being able to give GMs and Guncannons to kids is a sign of their strength. They had a core of superb pilots, yes, but now they've reached the point where even the crappy pilots can get good machines. Io is their equivalent of the elites they put in the first GMs, and look at the monster he has now. On female characters, yeah, Thunderbolt just isn't all that great with them. There's a fairly competent female pilot with a cool custom machine who shows up in the second part (so, the bit this anime won't cover), but Karla and Claudia haven't had much to do so far except get increasingly traumatised by the situation they've been thrust into.
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Apr 16, 2016 05:57
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I thought that the Feds in the region were especially well equipped because the colony from the Thunderbolt Sector was pretty wealthy, so they were able to get their hands on better equipment to take their home back.
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Apr 16, 2016 06:37
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MonsieurChoc posted:Also The Gihren Zabi Assassination Plot. That would probably have been the better choice, yeah.
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Apr 16, 2016 09:01
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Darth Walrus posted:On female characters, yeah, Thunderbolt just isn't all that great with them. There's a fairly competent female pilot with a cool custom machine who shows up in the second part (so, the bit this anime won't cover), but Karla and Claudia haven't had much to do so far except get increasingly traumatised by the situation they've been thrust into. Then both of them are largely removed from the plot in the next part too. It's a crying shame they won't adapt the rest of thunderbolt because Bianca is definitely in the running for coolest lady in a gundam story.
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Apr 16, 2016 09:21
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While it's still there to an extent in the anime, there is one thing that the Thunderbolt manga emphasises that slightly softens the blow regarding its female characters, and that's how mixed-gender both sides are. There's a lot of incidental female soldiers and pilots fighting and dying alongside the guys, and there's a chapter during this first arc where we follow a rookie female GM pilot's (nightmarish) experience during the Thunderbolt Sector battle. The major female characters may still not be up to much, but you at least get an impression that there are other cool women out there, rather than them being the sole representatives of their gender.
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Apr 16, 2016 09:34
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I watched F91 and was kinda just "Eh" about it, nothing in particular grabbed me and Iron Mask was dumb. It was nice hearing Steve Staley as a third Gundam Protagonist tho. Now all that's left of UC for me is Victory.
Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 10:47
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You also have to watch IGLOO.
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Apr 16, 2016 11:07
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How long are individual episodes?
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Apr 16, 2016 11:08
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My problem with IGLOO is that it's just extended fanservice to Zeon fanboys devoid of anything remotely critical about literal space Nazis in order to animate heroic last stands of crazy wonder weapons and doesn't really do anything interesting.
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Apr 16, 2016 11:13
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Eej posted:My problem with IGLOO is that it's just extended fanservice to Zeon fanboys devoid of anything remotely critical about literal space Nazis in order to animate heroic last stands of crazy wonder weapons and doesn't really do anything interesting. IGLOO gave us the Zudah, and that redeems it in my mind.
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Apr 16, 2016 11:23
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closeted republican posted:IGLOO gave us the Zudah, and that redeems it in my mind. The noble Zudah, a janky Zaku knockoff that sucked so badly that it literally shook itself to pieces.
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Apr 16, 2016 11:55
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Sharkopath posted:Developers pros: Developers owns hard and I really want an anime adaptation of it some day, but I doubt it'll ever happen.  MonsieurChoc posted:Also The Gihren Zabi Assassination Plot. Also really good.
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Apr 16, 2016 12:22
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Eej posted:My problem with IGLOO is that it's just extended fanservice to Zeon fanboys devoid of anything remotely critical about literal space Nazis in order to animate heroic last stands of crazy wonder weapons and doesn't really do anything interesting. That's what it is on the surface. The Zeon test team in IGLOO know they are on the wrong side history and morality. They keep going because they believe they have no where to go from the crimes they have committed and basic survival even as high command fucks them over repeatedly. They sacrifice pointlessly over and over again knowing they are going to end in failure and they know there is nothing heroic about it, just death. It does end terribly for the viewer as the patriotic whip lash comes back in full swing where everyone is somehow ready for the next fight for a Greater Zeon. It could have been like Starship Troopers instead if they had the mindset to twist it like Verhoven did. While they were literal Space NAZIs down to the uniform, it was a look into what might have been like as the equivalent of the average German/Japanese soldier post D-Day/Stalingrad/Okinawa, if it didn't swing back to the flag waving BS instead of continuing along the with the theme of futility.
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Apr 16, 2016 14:01
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Baal posted:I watched F91 and was kinda just "Eh" about it, nothing in particular grabbed me and Iron Mask was dumb. It was nice hearing Steve Staley as a third Gundam Protagonist tho. Now all that's left of UC for me is Victory. F91 was a disjointed mess but it looked pretty. It also contains one of the funniest scenes in any gundam https://i.imgur.com/pWQVLqj.webm space_mom_moped_accident.mp4
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Apr 16, 2016 18:22
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MonsieurChoc posted:The Crossbone Vangaurd are pretty different from Zeon in style, ideology, and personalities (as well as sheer scale) How are they different in ideology (the only part I really spoke to)? They're both space nobles with delusions of grandeur who want to conquer the Earth Sphere and install themselves as the leaders of it in the place of the Federation. The F91 movie doesn't tell us much more about the Crossbone Vanguard that I recall. I wasn't saying that F91 wasn't different from 0079 in many ways, only that it was macroscopically similar and that any differences it had wouldn't make it such a different work as to strike out in a new direction and make for a lot of potential in terms of story telling by including new elements like SEED's genetics, AGE's generations and so on.
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Apr 17, 2016 13:17
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Ronah gets a whole scene where he explains his ideology of Neo-Feudalism, which is really different from Zeon's Fascism. SEED is jsut 0079 with a new coat of paint. F91 is a new story with different themes.
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Apr 17, 2016 16:04
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I'm probably going to go straight to SEED as soon as I finished Victory because I need to see what the fuss is about
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Apr 17, 2016 16:05
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SEED was okay by me. I only got into gundam in 2014 because of Build Fighters and my viewing order was: Build Fighters Build Fighters TRY Turn A Gundam Gundam X 0080 Gundam Wing Gundam Wing Endless Schmaltz 0079 OG series + those 3 compilation movies Zeta 0083 Stardust Memory ZZ Char's Counterattack IGLOO 08th MS Team 00 + the movie Victory Gundam F91 AGE SEED + Destiny + Stargazer G Gundam Reconguista in G Of course I've gone back time and again to rewatch plenty of things. Mostly Turn A because it's so good.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:22
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Early SEED is pretty awful with a few good parts, mostly involving Rau Athrun or Cagalli. The middle chunk is decent with some extreme burst of stupidity and competence, and the last stretch is actually good. Destiny starts off promising then nosedives at an increasingly rapid speed. Occasionally something decent happens like Freedom VS Impulse but its mostly just terrible.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:31
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Ka0 posted:SEED was okay by me. I only got into gundam in 2014 because of Build Fighters and my viewing order was: May as well do Unicorn to finish it.
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Apr 17, 2016 18:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqRD4QSjwXg I think this clip has pretty much all the defining features of Gundam Wing.
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Apr 17, 2016 18:54
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Panzeh posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqRD4QSjwXg It is not a loss to die in glorious battle for Mr. Treize.
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Apr 17, 2016 20:10
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Panzeh posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqRD4QSjwXg Wow. Even a Thunderbolt sector grunt has more dignity and a better chance to impact the course of a battle. And yet, none of them seem to notice at any point just how hosed they are. (Also, man that makes IBO combat look better. Old shows can keep their beam weapons. Give me fights with some loving weight.)
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Apr 17, 2016 23:05
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MonsieurChoc posted:Ronah gets a whole scene where he explains his ideology of Neo-Feudalism, which is really different from Zeon's Fascism. You mean Meitzner explaining it to Berah/Cecily? All he says is that the only people returning to Earth are Federation Elite, that he didn't allow the Vanguard to hurt colonists and that a noble has obligations. Which isn't much different to the rhetoric that the Zabis fed people about how only the Elite lived on Earth and abused it or that Zeon was for Spacenoid Independence. Or how the Zabis believed they were best suited to rule space, which they did as a Duchy/Principality. Which is an aristocracy. SEED is at least as different to 0079 as F91, with a new story and it's own themes to boot. It does add genetic division to the mix though, along with the Zeon stand-in's being less to blame and having issues of their own. Which to me is something that has potential as a story element to add new ideas to the mix. F91 has it's own story and themes, of course it does. It doesn't really add anything new and different though and to me has no missed potential because of it. It's just a 0079 clone. It could have been a good one. But it's loss is no great one to me because of it.
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Apr 17, 2016 23:46
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chiasaur11 posted:Wow. So, there is a way to kill these things. This is one of three instances of mobile dolls being destroyed grunts in grunt suits. Two of them are suicide bombing and one is a laser gun that shows up in one episode and never again. Treize is the best big boss. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVfOwudAGJs
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Apr 17, 2016 23:51
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Panzeh posted:So, there is a way to kill these things. This is one of three instances of mobile dolls being destroyed grunts in grunt suits. Two of them are suicide bombing and one is a laser gun that shows up in one episode and never again. 'Long live Treize Khushrenada'? Man, somebody did not read the manifesto.
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Apr 17, 2016 23:58
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