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DeimosRising posted:Ah, I misunderstood the bit about "Chinese speaking colleagues"
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Apr 16, 2016 13:00
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Are people also missing the part where the Madam Gao character explicitly and directly says she is not from China and is probably from a magical and time displaced extra dimensional city so it would actually be kinda dumb if she spoke perfectly accented contemporary mandarin
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Apr 16, 2016 13:10
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Coming from someone who didn't know the Daredevil's villains beyond "Fisk=bad and there are ninja but Elektra is sometimes a good ninja" Almost all of these developments read like they just needed a way for the characters to stop referring to all the bad guys threatening the city as "The Chinese" and "The Japanese." When I read about stuff like the cities of heaven and everything it made more sense but in the show it really meanders around. You can tell they realized they couldn't quite make magic and other dimensions "real" yet because they pushed the release date up. and pushed Dr. Strange to the end of the year and that's his entire thing and greenlit Iron Fist all while DD was filming. DD going forward is going to only exist to set up other Netflix MCU shows going by the second half of this season which kind of sucks. This is really clunky in DD because they had to keep having the characters run into magical stuff but have them all be stupid enough to not talk to each other or really notice how crazy stuff is so that everyone thinks everything is still "just a legend" after several episodes of bizarre poo poo happening that we see all of. Also I couldn't believe they killed Nobu in season one like two episodes after he has dialogue and becomes a character only to bring him back as an immortal villain which could be cool but then have him get decapitated at the end anyway? Even despite my love of Scott Glenn I was still like what the hell was the point of that? Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 14:23
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Crisco Kid posted:Bitch, please. I admit I love Swinton, but that weaksause is so weak. Yeoh is a legend who comports herself like a Baroness and a powerhouse, and is an actual martial arts master. Lachman looks like a loving ethereal elf. Get out of here with that nonsense. Yeoh hasn't been in anything English-language in a good long while afaik, and if you cast a Tibetan as a character resembling the Dalai Lama you are straight up not releasing the movie in China without cutting the role entirely. Chinese box office is important nowadays.
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Apr 16, 2016 15:21
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Yeoh hasn't been in anything English-language in a good long while afaik Yeah I'm trying to forget Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Sword of Destiny exists as well. (She was in that and a bunch of other Netflix things in the last few years.)
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Apr 16, 2016 15:29
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Yeoh hasn't been in anything English-language in a good long while afaik 
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Apr 16, 2016 15:33
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I still cannot loving believe how inept and uninteresting that movie is on almost every level. I ranted about it a lot in the martial arts movie thread already but dang. Like what was anyone thinking with that flick.
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Apr 16, 2016 16:02
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TetsuoTW posted:More like she hasn't been in anything good in the English language in a long while: Wait, is was that in English?
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Apr 16, 2016 16:15
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Yeoh hasn't been in anything English-language in a good long while afaik she sounded just fine in Kung-fu Panda 2, holy poo poo that came out 5 years ago
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Apr 16, 2016 17:04
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Skwirl posted:Wait, is was that in English? Yep. It has basically nothing in common with the original except Michelle Yeoh and the titular sword.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:21
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Jerkface posted:Fucbois come at me with your pedantic defenses of The Major being played by a white chick Its ok Max Landis is here to do that for them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=747cvo8Lkjw AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 19:53
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AccountSupervisor posted:Its ok Max Landis is here to do that for them Is my hatred for Max Landis irrational or rational? I'm having trouble deciding
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Apr 16, 2016 20:13
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berserker posted:Is my hatred for Max Landis irrational or rational? I'm having trouble deciding It is 100% rational and I can say this because Ive actually had a lengthy conversation with the guy.
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Apr 16, 2016 20:21
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berserker posted:Is my hatred for Max Landis irrational or rational? I'm having trouble deciding Whatever works better as a justification for me wanting to take a bugspray-and-zippo flamethrower to that sheet of cotton candy pretending to be a hairdo on top of his stupid face.
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Apr 16, 2016 20:33
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah I'm trying to forget Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Sword of Destiny exists as well. I actually thought she wasn't in that, and completely forgot she was in Kung Fu Panda. 
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Apr 16, 2016 21:00
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Jerkface posted:Fucbois come at me with your pedantic defenses of The Major being played by a white chick Because the average character in Anime is, to the average western viewer, not distinctly Asian enough to be considered Asian. You, me and most others on these forums probably know that they're supposed to represent Asian people, but most people probably don't. Just look at stuff like "I like Anime, but why do Asian countries keep making stories about Caucasian people?" that pops up from time to time. It's also why Animé got so much traction in the West, because Caucasian children can identify themselves with the saturday morning cartoon characters. At least with Ghost in the Shell it ain't as bad as with Avatar. In Avatar the characters have various different skintones and the culture(s) portrayed is not a modern metropolis that you can find all around the world, but distinctly influenced by medieval Asia. There was no way you could defend what they did in Avatar, because it's even blatant to 8 year olds (in a manner of speaking), less so with many other Anime. Batham fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 21:13
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Well if the white nerds and done with jokes about how racism doesn't exist, I thought this was pretty good: https://twitter.com/jontsuei/status/720803388355530753 Jon Tsuei posted:I've been seeing a lot of defenses for the ScarJo casting that seem to lack a nuanced understanding of a Ghost In The Shell as a story. https://twitter.com/jontsuei/status/720807324659482624
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Apr 16, 2016 21:19
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wyoming posted:Well if the white nerds and done with jokes about how racism doesn't exist, I thought this was pretty good: Lmao that's a fat sack of horseshit if I ever read any. If anything the first half of that is an even better justification for translocation of the setting to the US.
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Apr 16, 2016 21:26
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wyoming posted:Well if the white nerds and done with jokes about how racism doesn't exist, I thought this was pretty good: Sorry, but I disagree. Akira is far more distinctly Asian than Ghost in the Shell ever was. In the modern technological world, what makes Ghost in the Shell what it is, is universal.
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Apr 16, 2016 21:30
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After reading that I did a Google image search for Masumune Shirow and had a good laugh.
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Apr 16, 2016 21:32
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Batham posted:Sorry, but I disagree. Akira is far more distinctly Asian than Ghost in the Shell ever was. In the modern technological world, what makes Ghost in the Shell what it is, is universal. Are we judging stories on how Asian they are now? Western Akira and Ghost in the Shell both sound like clusterfucks to me. I don't know if technology suddenly makes the themes universal, it's a very 90s anime story. If they wanted a Western version they could've pulled Neuromancer out of development hell.
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Apr 16, 2016 21:48
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wyoming posted:Are we judging stories on how Asian they are now? Western Akira and Ghost in the Shell both sound like clusterfucks to me. I don't know if technology suddenly makes the themes universal, it's a very 90s anime story. You could make a reasonable argument that the themes of Akira necessitate a Japan setting, but at first blush nothing about GitS really does. It's kind of like demanding that Coriolanus remain a sword and sandals story. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 21:50
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Ghost in the Shell's story and themes are so uncentered from Japan that Oshii didn't even scout any city in Japan for the setting; he went to Hong Kong and made it pretty readily apparent, since Hong Kong looks exceedingly different from Tokyo. He also ended up being right on where the international center of power and tech would move in the future of the period, but that's either blind luck or acceptance/awareness that the bubble had popped for good in Japan that early into the Lost Decades.
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Apr 16, 2016 21:56
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wyoming posted:Are we judging stories on how Asian they are now? Western Akira and Ghost in the Shell both sound like clusterfucks to me. I don't know if technology suddenly makes the themes universal, it's a very 90s anime story. From what I know of Ghost in the Shell it could very easily be in something like Deus Ex without much trouble. This is less Akira and more Seven Samurai.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:03
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AccountSupervisor posted:Its ok Max Landis is here to do that for them Well, he's not wrong.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:04
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Mordiceius posted:Well, he's not wrong. No actually its incredibly obvious what he saying is true, but its a stupid loving position to talk down to people about because people are completely aware of what hes saying and thats why they are mad. So to fix this problem are we just supposed to cross our fingers that hopefully maybe possibly someday white American audiences will completely make a cultural shift or maybe like...filmmakers and Hollywood could try and help ease this cultural shift by maybe even pretending to attempt to creatively solve these issues. Its just incredibly stupid to just sit back and expect these issues to solve themselves when the issue ITSELF was created by Hollywoods need to pander to its white audiences to maximize profit. Thats ok. Its their business and thats how it works. Its still loving stupid and sad and we dont need a lovely screenwriter lecturing us on it because he GETS the industry. We all get the industry, thats the loving problem. The smug condescension from rich a white screenwriter born into Hollywood is really unnecessary and does nothing to enlighten anything or anyone on the problem. Max Landis just needs his monthly "HEY GUYS IM A HOLLYWOOD SCREENWRITER LOOK AT ME!" viral video. AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 22:11
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Well I think the difference is more that we shouldn't be yelling and screaming at the actors/actresses or the writers and directors and crew. We should be mad at the executives who are enforcing this poo poo.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:15
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Or I guess we can just call GitS what it is which is a Japanese Robocop remake.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:18
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Mordiceius posted:Well I think the difference is more that we shouldn't be yelling and screaming at the actors/actresses or the writers and directors and crew. We should be mad at the executives who are enforcing this poo poo. Yeah but they don't have twitter accounts that I can shout at so what do you expect me to do
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Apr 16, 2016 22:19
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Mordiceius posted:Well I think the difference is more that we shouldn't be yelling and screaming at the actors/actresses or the writers and directors and crew. We should be mad at the executives who are enforcing this poo poo. Yeah but in most cases they themselves aren't well known or famous (especially in comparison with actors/directors/(writers?)) and are also rich as hell and basically untouchable/uncaring of the opinions of a small group of people angry at their profit-maximizing strategies. So folk tend to lash at the easier or more obvious targets. EDIT: TLDR, what Gorn just said.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:21
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I think the another aspect of the anger that frustrates some people is that it isn't always an issue of "Hollywood is racist" it's also an issue of "Hollywood is greedy". If casting a white actor will bring in even a few million more than a minority, you better believe most execs will enforce it because they're greedy as gently caress.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:23
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Bob Quixote posted:Yeah but in most cases they themselves aren't well known or famous (especially in comparison with actors/directors/(writers?)) and are also rich as hell and basically untouchable/uncaring of the opinions of a small group of people angry at their profit-maximizing strategies. So folk tend to lash at the easier or more obvious targets. But how is lashing out at the directors/actors going to help the situation when they're not the ones ultimately making these decisions? I'd venture to guess a vast majority of directors don't give a single gently caress what race characters are as long as they get to make their movie.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:25
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Mordiceius posted:But how is lashing out at the directors/actors going to help the situation when they're not the ones ultimately making these decisions? Yeah I'd figure that if you decided to not take a role on principle then there will always be tons of actors looking for more screen credits or cash who will do it. EDIT That doesn't necessarily make it a defensible position to knowingly take an insensitive role, just that it is basically impossible to have EVERY potential actor who could possibly play that questionable role agree to boycott it. If whitewashing is mandated from above then it will inevitably make its way into the production and the person taking the role is just a symptom. Bob Quixote fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 22:32
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Mordiceius posted:But how is lashing out at the directors/actors going to help the situation when they're not the ones ultimately making these decisions? Because they choose to participate in the problem? And yeah directors definitely do care what race their characters are but people like Rupert Sanders probably dont and will do whatever the execs tell him to do because who the gently caress gives a poo poo about Rupert Sanders. Bob Quixote posted:Yeah I'd figure that if you decided to not take a role on principle then there will always be tons of actors looking for more screen credits or cash who will do it. So basically anyone who chose to participate in the production is greedy and clearly did not care about the whitewashing therefore they are just as culpable as the execs are. Exactly my point. AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 22:35
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AccountSupervisor posted:No actually its incredibly obvious what he saying is true, but its a stupid loving position to talk down to people about because people are completely aware of what hes saying and thats why they are mad. So to fix this problem are we just supposed to cross our fingers that hopefully maybe possibly someday American audiences will completely make a cultural shift or maybe like...filmmakers and Hollywood could try and help ease this cultural shift by maybe even pretending to attempt to creatively solve these issues. The trick is that you have sort-of identified the problem, but have not changed your approach in any way that can deal with it effectively. You must improve your interpretation, rather than expect Hollywood to change films into apolitical 'safe spaces'. The specific problem of women being pressured to look like Scarlett Johansson is something the film itself raises. Even in its preliminary marketing materials, it is an example of "the tremendous pressure which, for example, compels women in our liberal society to undergo plastic surgery, cosmetic implants, Botox injections, etc., in order to remain competitive on the sex market." The character can look like anything, so why does she look like this? And of course that's the very point of Ghost In The Shell: that the internet hasn't brought freedom, ended racism and whatever. Half Johansson's career is about this topic. In The Island, her character realizes she's been created to look like ScarJo because a corporation is preparing to harvest her body. In Under The Skin, her character is again forced to look like ScarJo by extraterrestrial vampire-pimps. In other words: Mordiceius posted:we shouldn't be yelling and screaming at the actors/actresses or the writers and directors and crew. We should be mad at the executives who are enforcing this poo poo. But, going further, what is an executive going to do when they are ultimately beholden to the shareholders, market forces, etc.? The ultimate problem is capitalism, and you're not going to fix that by spamming anybody's twitter.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:But, going further, what is an executive going to do when they are ultimately beholden to the shareholders, market forces, etc.? The ultimate problem is capitalism, and you're not going to fix that by spamming anybody's twitter. This I 100% agree with. I dont think internet outrage will realistically solve anything but I whole heartedly would hope it would some day get to a point where literally everyone worth a dime in Hollywood turned this movie down until it ended up being some low budget DTV shitshow. SuperMechagodzilla posted:The trick is that you have sort-of identified the problem, but have not changed your approach in any way that can deal with it effectively. You must improve your interpretation, rather than expect Hollywood to change films into apolitical 'safe spaces'. I dont even expect Hollywood to 100% do that, I just think theres a healthy middle ground that can be achieved by pairing a solid writer and director with somewhat of a draw with at least an Asian actress that, while not a box office draw, could prove to be a potential star enough to get audiences interested. I would hope the final product would look good enough to audiences that it wouldn't matter two shits if the lead was an unfamiliar Asian actress. The problem is Hollywood is very rarely ever willing to take that risk and make that leap and so you rarely even get to see how audiences would receive such a product. So Hollywood will remains culturally stagnant like it always has and internet nerds will continue to tweet their rear end off about it until someday a movie gets made like that that eases Hollywoods fears. AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 22:40
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AccountSupervisor posted:This I 100% agree with. I do too because that's exactly what the source material and its fans deserve. 
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Apr 16, 2016 22:42
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hollywood isnt racist, they just care about money it's the audience that is racist If putting Asian Man as the leading man in a movie meant more $$$ the "hollywood execs" would be constantly doing this
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Apr 16, 2016 22:48
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wyoming posted:Are we judging stories on how Asian they are now? For every square filled in Asian Bingo, 0.5 Asian actors must be in the film. Otherwise I will be outraged.
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Apr 16, 2016 22:49
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The trick is that you have sort-of identified the problem, but have not changed your approach in any way that can deal with it effectively. You must improve your interpretation, rather than expect Hollywood to change films into apolitical 'safe spaces'. Wow. For once I agree with essentially every word in an SMG post. AccountSupervisor posted:I dont think internet outrage will realistically solve anything but I whole heartedly would hope it would some day get to a point where literally everyone worth a dime in Hollywood turned this movie down until it ended up being some low budget DTV shitshow. But that will never happen, because people are greedy and want money and reliable work is hard to find. Look at the tech industry - they hire college grads, overwork them, and fire them or lay them off when they burnout. It's completely destructive, but it doesn't matter because there are always more people looking for work than there is work -> thus back to SMG's assertion that the problem is capitalism itself. Mordiceius fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 22:55
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