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Kopijeger posted:This actually crops up later in a limited fashion (as in suspects being looked down upon for sympathising with leftist views). Cushy job, lot of opportunities to be bribed.
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Apr 18, 2016 23:24
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The PIT Maneuver doesn't work here because it hasn't been invented yet. Are you trying to cause a tear in space/time here?!Kopijeger posted:Apparently homosexuality was only decriminalised in the state in 1976. There are no cases in game involving pursuing "sexual perverts", which seems like a missed opportunity. It could have added an interesting dimension of moral dissonance if the player had to play through spying on consenting adults in private and locking them up for something that these days is not a crime at all. I also don't know if I'd go so far saying 'something that these days is not a crime at all' considering there's still about 20 states that have outlawed sodomy and other activities between same-sex couples and less than a decade ago it would've gotten you labeled unfit to serve in the military.
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Apr 19, 2016 00:25
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Kopijeger posted:Apparently homosexuality was only decriminalised in the state in 1976. There are no cases in game involving pursuing "sexual perverts", which seems like a missed opportunity. It could have added an interesting dimension of moral dissonance if the player had to play through spying on consenting adults in private and locking them up for something that these days is not a crime at all. I think the developers wanted to avoid those kinds of severe moral quandaries for the players. Cole and company are definitely lovely people by modern standards, but they're almost exclusively targeting people who are either unrepentant criminals or have committed rather serious crimes. A case where you had to arrest a gay couple or something would leave a bad taste in virtually every player's mouth; if Cole showed little or no hesitation about it, he'd end up being almost totally unsympathetic to the audience.
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Apr 19, 2016 01:14
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chitoryu12 posted:I think the developers wanted to avoid those kinds of severe moral quandaries for the players. Cole and company are definitely lovely people by modern standards, but they're almost exclusively targeting people who are either unrepentant criminals or have committed rather serious crimes. A case where you had to arrest a gay couple or something would leave a bad taste in virtually every player's mouth; if Cole showed little or no hesitation about it, he'd end up being almost totally unsympathetic to the audience. Cole's actually ridiculously progressive for his era, to the point that other characters dislike him for it.
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Apr 19, 2016 01:46
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chitoryu12 posted:I think the developers wanted to avoid those kinds of severe moral quandaries for the players. Cole and company are definitely lovely people by modern standards, but they're almost exclusively targeting people who are either unrepentant criminals or have committed rather serious crimes. A case where you had to arrest a gay couple or something would leave a bad taste in virtually every player's mouth; if Cole showed little or no hesitation about it, he'd end up being almost totally unsympathetic to the audience. LGBT issues are still heated topics today, granted all the noise is coming from the wrong dying demographic that will be left behind on the wrong side of history, but pretty sure the ancient year of 2011 would have a lot of terrible nerds mad about icky gay things. Also people are stupid and constantly miss The Point. tm
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Apr 19, 2016 01:58
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Historical fiction risks audience offense if it's TOO accurate, I think. People are often under a misapprehension that the past wasn't that bad, and things are now as they were even 20 years ago. This is especially problematic for writing the protagonist of historical fiction. Too much like people of the time, and they risk alienating the audience. Too little, and they seem like a time traveler from our time. Which is why a significant amount of historical fiction involves time travelers, because it skirts that whole problem. If the game were completely accurate to LA law enforcement circa 1947, it would probably be pretty upsetting for a general audience that doesn't know their history.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:02
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Spatula City posted:Historical fiction risks audience offense if it's TOO accurate, I think. People are often under a misapprehension that the past wasn't that bad, and things are now as they were even 20 years ago. This is especially problematic for writing the protagonist of historical fiction. Too much like people of the time, and they risk alienating the audience. Too little, and they seem like a time traveler from our time. Which is why a significant amount of historical fiction involves time travelers, because it skirts that whole problem. It would probably be upsetting for an audience that does know their history because of the difficulty in sympathizing with a person who may express views that are horrific today. There's a limit to how many times you can excuse grandpa as "Just being from that time" when he keeps talking about how the Negros are upsetting him and they were better off as slaves. It's a bit worse in some ways with a video game, as you're supposedly in control of what the protagonist is doing. Would forcing the player to prosecute people for homosexuality be realistic to the time? Yes. Would it also make Cole seem completely awful and make the player hesitant to continue the game? Probably.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:19
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chitoryu12 posted:"You gently caress young boys, Valdez?" remains one of my favorite lines in the game. Still think my personal favorite was Phelps responding to partner complaints about crashes with "at the next junction YOU SHUT YOUR TRAP!", I was reduced to tears by that one. Speaking of crashes, one thing I didn't catch until I drove around in a convertible was that Phelps and his partner will throw up their arms in front of their faces during a crash, it's a nice touch considering you won't see it in most vehicles. Spatula City posted:If the game were completely accurate to LA law enforcement circa 1947, it would probably be pretty upsetting for a general audience that doesn't know their history. Hell, what's in there gets bad enough considering how much casual sexism and general bad behavior you see out of even the "clean" cops. Granted it's pretty obvious a lot of it is cynicism from a life of dealing with crooks and idiots.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:29
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We haven't come across any of the real burn outs or crooked cops yet - the worst of which is such a god damned rear end in a top hat but you just can't help but love his banter. He's like the mirror opposite of Cole, what he would be if he was evil. But really to Cole's credit as to whether he'd start persecuting 'deviants' or not, he generally seems more concerned with actual crimes rather than incidental crap and in just about every one of the conversations you'll see him become either really derisive towards anyone who's spouting biased nonsense or become extremely passive-aggressive and shut down the conversation.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:40
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Psychotic Weasel posted:We haven't come across any of the real burn outs or crooked cops yet - the worst of which is such a god damned rear end in a top hat but you just can't help but love his banter. He's like the mirror opposite of Cole, what he would be if he was evil. Yeah, I was just going to point out that as far as Post War crime and corruption goes, the Traffic Desk is still very much part of the easing in period. We'll be seeing much worse from both cops and criminals as time goes on.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:46
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Psychotic Weasel posted:We haven't come across any of the real burn outs or crooked cops yet - the worst of which is such a god damned rear end in a top hat but you just can't help but love his banter. He's like the mirror opposite of Cole, what he would be if he was evil. All the partners except for the Traffic one are pretty good characters imo.
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Apr 19, 2016 03:49
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fool_of_sound posted:All the partners except for the Traffic one are pretty good characters imo. Aw I like the traffic guy too. He's snarky, lazy, and tired of being handed bullshit assignments that he can't make anything of.
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Apr 19, 2016 05:35
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kalonZombie posted:Aw I like the traffic guy too. He's snarky, lazy, and tired of being handed bullshit assignments that he can't make anything of. I barely remembered him. He's just kinda boring next to the other guys.
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Apr 19, 2016 05:50
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The patrol partner is the real boring one, but then you hardly get any chance to banter with him.
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Apr 19, 2016 06:34
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I think the issue is more that he doesn't really have anything remarkable about him, the only thing I really remember is the argument in the car about the Zooter riots vs Military service. But you definitely remember Finbarr. And you remember how much of an rear end in a top hat Earle is. And you remember Biggs because he is A: the narrator and B: the stereotypical noir "3 months from retirement" partner.
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Apr 19, 2016 06:50
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fool_of_sound posted:I barely remembered him. He's just kinda boring next to the other guys. I think that's actually the point of his character: he's stuck doing what he sees as the thankless grunt work of the detective world, he'll probably be stuck doing it for the rest of his career, and he knows it. Hell, in even this somewhat interesting case, as Bobbin noted, Cole hoovers up the praise and attention and he gets a little nod. Edit: Wrong quote, bad reading comprehension. Kerning Chameleon fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 07:24
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kalonZombie posted:Aw I like the traffic guy too. He's snarky, lazy, and tired of being handed bullshit assignments that he can't make anything of. that and he seems to either learn something from Cole or benefits from being in his limelight based off where we find him several desks later  Bekowsky was always my favourite too
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Apr 19, 2016 07:26
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Oswald Jacobs is Ted "Theodore" Logan's dad!
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Apr 19, 2016 09:58
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During the flashback scene of the last video, Bobbin, you were curious as to why an MCRD sergeant would be screwing around at OCS. I don't know as to why that character shows up several times but in the Marine Corps, officer candidates are trained by enlisted drill instructors.
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Apr 19, 2016 13:46
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Kurieg posted:And you remember Biggs because he is A: the narrator and B: the stereotypical noir "3 months from retirement" partner. He's also a cool dude with a fantastic voice.
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Apr 19, 2016 15:18
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fool_of_sound posted:He's also a cool dude with a fantastic voice. One of my all time favorite voice actors. I'd listen to that man read the phone book.
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Apr 19, 2016 16:49
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SpookyLizard posted:One of my all time favorite voice actors. I'd listen to that man read the phone book. He's done some audiobooks that I keep meaning to pick up!
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Apr 19, 2016 18:35
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Why was Spock so widely listened to? Was he truly the only person who came up with these theories, or was he the first person with credentials to do so, or...?
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Apr 19, 2016 19:32
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Samovar posted:Why was Spock so widely listened to? Was he truly the only person who came up with these theories, or was he the first person with credentials to do so, or...? It's my understanding that he was one of the first science popularizers who was able to take, at the time, cutting edge social science research and describe them in a way understandable to the general public and to use it to provide practical suggestions about child rearing that hadn't been widely available till then. I think he also made an effort to gather additional data from actual families in later versions of his books and to update them with new ideas and techniques. However he was also criticized later in his career for relying too heavily on anecdotal data rather than on more thoroughly researched and controlled data.
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Apr 19, 2016 20:23
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Samovar posted:Why was Spock so widely listened to? Was he truly the only person who came up with these theories, or was he the first person with credentials to do so, or...?
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Apr 19, 2016 21:11
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Grapplejack posted:His delivery of it is loving perfect too. I love it.
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Apr 19, 2016 22:15
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Edit: On second thought, never mind. Not worth the hassle.
paragon1 fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Apr 19, 2016 |
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Apr 19, 2016 23:08
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Just gonna toss out that Rebel without a Cause has a pretty drat good alternate ending too. Plato jumps from the observatory and the entire movie ends with the closing of the observatory's doors.
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Apr 20, 2016 04:36
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I got to wondering about the phrase used in the first tutorial case "stick our schlongs into a hornet's nest". "Schlong" is of Yiddish origin, literally meaning "snake" (compare High German "Schlange") and is of course used as a slang term for penis. Thing is, it seemed out of place for 1940s California, and looking it up in online dictionaries it is not recorded in general usage before 1969. Also, they use the term "Hispanic" when wikipedia indicates that the term only became widespread after 1970 and "Latino" is more likely to be used on the West Coast anyway. There are probably more examples of linguistic anachronisms in the game, but I supposed the developers have done better than you would expect considering they were from Australia.
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Apr 20, 2016 10:39
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Kopijeger posted:I got to wondering about the phrase used in the first tutorial case "stick our schlongs into a hornet's nest". "Schlong" is of Yiddish origin, literally meaning "snake" (compare High German "Schlange") and is of course used as a slang term for penis. Thing is, it seemed out of place for 1940s California, and looking it up in online dictionaries it is not recorded in general usage before 1969. Also, they use the term "Hispanic" when wikipedia indicates that the term only became widespread after 1970 and "Latino" is more likely to be used on the West Coast anyway. There are probably more examples of linguistic anachronisms in the game, but I supposed the developers have done better than you would expect considering they were from Australia. Funny you should bring up the language inconsistencies, because I remember how people kept doing it for Mad Men. And that's a funny coincidence because goddamn. 
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Apr 20, 2016 11:02
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Kopijeger posted:There are probably more examples of linguistic anachronisms in the game, but I supposed the developers have done better than you would expect considering they were from Australia. ... I'm translating a 1970's Russian story in which one of the heroes quotes / banters "Работай негр, солнце еще высоко!". There's nothing about the character that's meant to be racist, but it's impossible to maintain the literal meaning in English without bringing in that implication.
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Apr 20, 2016 12:48
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kalonZombie posted:Aw I like the traffic guy too. He's snarky, lazy, and tired of being handed bullshit assignments that he can't make anything of. He's neck and neck with Biggs for my favorite really, though that's partly a factor of the other two choices being assholes of course. But Bekowsky just strikes me as somebody who just does his job with as little drama as possible, and his snark is more of a "laugh with you" instead of "laugh at you" thing (even Biggs was kind of a dick at first, he just came around fast), Finished off the game apart from collectibles thanks to the thread inspiring me back in, very interested now to hear Bobbin's take on it now. I do like the "change in perspective" of the last cases, feels like it shifts from an intense mystery investigation to a more Sam Spade experience of "noble PI solves the mystery by way of the bad guys trying/succeeding in beating the poo poo out of him". It's a clever way to experience an alternative style of noir story to me. I think I would have liked a somewhat more interactive version of the ending but the general plot of it was a decent bittersweet ending, heavy on the bitter.
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Apr 21, 2016 01:37
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Xander77 posted:I'm translating a 1970's Russian story in which one of the heroes quotes / banters "Работай негр, солнце еще высоко!". There's nothing about the character that's meant to be racist, but it's impossible to maintain the literal meaning in English without bringing in that implication. What does it mean, for those of us who don't speak Russian?
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Apr 21, 2016 06:38
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CommissarMega posted:What does it mean, for those of us who don't speak Russian? There weren't many black people in the USSR, and the region in general has never relied on African slaves, so, while the word implies exploitation, it is remote, exotic, doesn't come with much negative weight and is often used to mean "someone who works hard for little or no pay/recognition." In fact, the Russian phrase for "ghost writer" is "literary negro"
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Apr 21, 2016 09:45
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Sorry if this was cleared up earlier, but can you fail or get sent down a different path in these suspect interviews by wrongly accusing them of lying all the time? It seems the healing power of 'oops, my bad' smooths everything over and lets you try again from the same point with effectively only 2 options to choose between.
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Apr 21, 2016 10:27
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Fwoderwick posted:Sorry if this was cleared up earlier, but can you fail or get sent down a different path in these suspect interviews by wrongly accusing them of lying all the time? It seems the healing power of 'oops, my bad' smooths everything over and lets you try again from the same point with effectively only 2 options to choose between. If I understood correctly, all the threats and accusations Cole says are just a transition to the notepad menu. You still have 3 options, it's just that one of them has additional dialogue between selecting it and confirming your choice. This also means that if you just cancel out of the notepad, it might as well never have happened. There's no real way of explaining that in-universe short of making Cole a Jedi. That said, I'm curious what exactly is the penalty for getting a question wrong. Do you just have to find evidence elsewhere, or are there non-standard game overs?
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Apr 21, 2016 13:39
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Aithon posted:That said, I'm curious what exactly is the penalty for getting a question wrong. Do you just have to find evidence elsewhere, or are there non-standard game overs? The penalty is that you don't get that question right, and sometimes that leads to a clue being missed, as testimony is considered evidence by the game. Both of which impact the star rating you get at the end of the case; get a low enough rating, and you get a different cutscene with the captain berating you rather than praising you, but the game just continues on regardless, you don't get a game over.
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Apr 21, 2016 13:51
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Aithon posted:If I understood correctly, all the threats and accusations Cole says are just a transition to the notepad menu. You still have 3 options, it's just that one of them has additional dialogue between selecting it and confirming your choice. This also means that if you just cancel out of the notepad, it might as well never have happened. There's no real way of explaining that in-universe short of making Cole a Jedi. You have three options: Truth, Doubt, and Lie. I think Doubt used to be called "Bluff" or something, which is why it seems so unusual. * Truth means you think the suspect is telling the truth about the question you asked, and you're just trying to press them for more details. * Doubt means you think they're lying and you want Cole to push them (through insults, threats, and mockery) to come clean. * Lie means you know they're lying because you have evidence against it. Truth and Doubt immediately get you some kind of result, and you'll hear a clicking noise along with the piano tone to indicate that you chose the right answer. Either Cole made the right decision and you'll get clean information out of them, or Cole made the wrong decision and either intimidates someone telling the truth for no apparent reason or takes a liar at face value and lets them keep up the lie. Lie lets you actually choose an option from your notepad for evidence against them. This also means that you can back out of an accusation. A good way to judge if Lie was the wrong option is if choosing it causes Cole to come up with some wild theory out of the blue that sounds really inaccurate, as opposed to saying something that you know to be true based on the evidence you found earlier. If you pick the wrong answer, you never see Cole try to come up with how the evidence fits into the theory; the suspect just insults you and clams up. In all cases, choosing the wrong option denies you whatever information you may have gotten from the question. The only time you're ever at risk of failing a case due to a failed questioning is generally at the very end, though. The game is very lenient with letting you at least progress through the story.
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Apr 21, 2016 15:33
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Choosing Lie can also cause the witness to be paradoxically helpful as their dialogue after choosing Lie can fairly often point you right to the correct piece of evidence, if you have it. "How can you prove I was at [blank]/with [blank]/that's my [blank]," and then notepad comes up and you've got "Suspect's [blank] found at scene" staring you in the face.
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Apr 21, 2016 16:02
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That's a very helpful breakdown. I was thinking that when it went to the notebook that it was automatically returning to the three options as you didn't have anything relevant to corroborate the accusation. It's actually Bobbin backing out. Pretty dumb that you can fire out crazy conspiracy theories without any fallout. I guess to get round it you'd have to party to the actual accusation and chosen evidence before Cole shakes the tree, then be given a fail state for that question.
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Apr 21, 2016 17:17
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