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Litany Unheard posted:NPR said 2020 for the new bill. I haven't heard 2030 anywhere. The timetable I heard was 2020 for revealing the design, 2030 for it actually going into circulation
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Apr 20, 2016 20:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's not something that turns on a dime. This needed love.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:17
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Boon posted:I noticed an acquaintance who is very active in black rights on FB is coming out strongly against putting Tubman on the $20. A lot of comments in support and backed up by an article in one (http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2015/04/keep_harriet_tubman_and_rosa_parks_off_the_20_bill.html). It's like "Hey, you don't got no money, but looky! One of you is on a bill! Isn't that just dandy? We cool right  " also, quote:Specifically, there is something both distasteful and ironic about putting a black woman’s face on the most frequently counterfeited and most commonly traded dollar bill in this country. Haven’t we been commodified and trafficked enough? 
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Apr 20, 2016 20:17
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MariusLecter posted:It's like "Hey, you don't got no money, but looky! One of you is on a bill! Isn't that just dandy? We cool right Yeah, I fully understand that part - but let's walk out the argument. Let's say we pull Tubman from the $20. What does that accomplish? Wouldn't it be better to argue that this is a step, let's keep it going with more solid reforms?
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Apr 20, 2016 20:19
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Boon posted:Yeah, I fully understand that part - but let's walk out the argument. If we don't talk about something and ignore it, the problem goes away.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:20
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SquadronROE posted:If we don't talk about something and ignore it, the problem goes away. Wait, I don't understand this. What are the parts you're referring to. I guess to me, symbolic positive reforms are just as important to generating actual solid reforms as open discussion.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:21
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MariusLecter posted:gently caress it, just gather up all the current $20s and burn them all. Have banks do exchanges or something, poo poo. this is the correct approach to take with anything bearing andrew jackson's leering visage
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Apr 20, 2016 20:29
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Boon posted:Yeah, I fully understand that part - but let's walk out the argument. Let's say we pull Tubman from the $20. What does that accomplish? Wouldn't it be better to argue that this is a step, let's keep it going with more solid reforms? Seems (again, white maleing this) that the distaste for putting one of either Tubman or Parks on a bill stems from the idea that the gesture will then be taken as a panacea for the same old crop of closet racists to just gloss over REAL problems faced by disadvantaged groups. Because we can't care about multiple things at once, or make incremental progress. Yes we should focus on poverty and the prison industrial complex and make real meaningful reforms across the country that are desperately needed and decades late. Why does this preclude also incorporating black faces on our currency?
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Apr 20, 2016 20:30
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Incredibly small, incremental progress continues to be incredibly frustrating and even comes across as a sop because of how insubstantial it feels, more at 11. That's really only a serious problem if more symbolic progress such as this is explicitly used to impede concrete reforms, and I don't see any evidence that it would.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:31
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whitey delenda est posted:make incremental progress. This term is nearly verboten to some people in the Bernie thread. I agree with what you said, but the idea that mentioning that this is incremental progress appears to instantly trigger some people into thinking that it is the same as settling.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:33
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The promised land seems just so far away sometimes. 
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Apr 20, 2016 20:35
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Boon posted:This term is nearly verboten to some people in the Bernie thread. I'd say borne of experience. We elected a black president, racism over, man! Meanwhile goddamn near every HDI number for black populations in the United States continues to lag, especially versus white populations. Combed Thunderclap posted:
This is the big thing though, why on earth would changing up some printing plates... I don't know, burn political capital that could be spent on real progress?
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Apr 20, 2016 20:38
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Boon posted:This term is nearly verboten to some people in the Bernie thread. I am open to the argument that the black community is a special historical case as compared to eg the gay community and so the sorts of incremental progress that worked for the latter aren't an acceptable pursuit for the former. I presently rather disagree, but that's the model of argument I've found least unconvincing on the topic so far. Edit: although maybe I am on board with the tactical decision to SAY it's unacceptable and keep being loud and obnoxious to keep attention on the big picture.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:39
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Boon posted:I noticed an acquaintance who is very active in black rights on FB is coming out strongly against putting Tubman on the $20. A lot of comments in support and backed up by an article in one (http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2015/04/keep_harriet_tubman_and_rosa_parks_off_the_20_bill.html). The Article posted:I don’t want Harriet Tubman’s face on a $20 bill; I want our people to be free from the chains of institutionalized racism and economic slavery. That’s how we honor her. The Comments Section posted:Tanisa Brown Dec 7, 2015 Said it better than I could.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:41
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Boon posted:I don't really know what to say about this, as a white, well-off, middle class male. I have opinions, but I'll be told I don't understand. Which is true enough. If I remember correctly, one major critique is that she died a pauper (because racism)
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Apr 20, 2016 20:41
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For every Tubman $20 printed she gets $20 in heaven though, right? Need to print as many as we can, the cafeteria up there is pricey as heck.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:43
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SquadronROE posted:If we don't talk about something and ignore it, the problem goes away. 
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Apr 20, 2016 20:45
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In terms of white guilt and white washing things the biggest sin in regards to that to me is what the Mainstream has done to Martin Luther King. But that's an argument for another day. This is a real cool thing that I'm happy is happening.
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Apr 20, 2016 20:46
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Dexo posted:In terms of white guilt and white washing things the biggest sin in regards to that to me is what the Mainstream has done to Martin Luther King. But that's an argument for another day. This guy isn't exactly mainstream but what he has done to MLK is much, much worse even. http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/peroutka-s-mlk-day-message-martin-luther-king-didn-t-actually-support-civil-rights quote:Peroutka explained to Deace that modern-day civil rights activists have it all wrong and that King never actually fought for civil rights. In fact, Peroutka said, “The term ‘civil rights’ is kind of an oxymoron” because rights come from God not from civil government. King, Peroutka insisted, believed that “rights come from God,” so the term “civil rights” doesn’t apply to his work.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:02
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Washington Post also has an editorial against Tubman on the bill which I think has worse reasoning. https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/05/14/keep-harriet-tubman-and-all-women-off-the-20-bill/ Basically Harriet Tubman fought to subvert American capitalism, therefore putting her on a $20 bill is a deep insult? What's the alternative here? Keep enshrining assholes on our currency? I'm pretty sure currency pre-dates and is still useful outside of capitalism anyways.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:08
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It's complaints like those that remind me how our idiots are at worst, harmless and obnoxous. Much better than actively hostile and violent.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:11
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I mean, there's #SlatePitches and then there's arguing that someone is "anti-Capitalist" because they help steal property... by which you mean slaves. That's a level of contrarianism beyond the izonkosphere.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:13
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Before I click, by subvert capitalism they mean freeing slaves, don't they...
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Apr 20, 2016 21:15
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Joementum posted:I mean, there's #SlatePitches and then there's arguing that someone is "anti-Capitalist" because they help steal property... by which you mean slaves. OH MY GOD quote:On one hand, replacing the face of Andrew Jackson – a man whose wealth was made on the backs of enslaved black people – with Tubman’s image sounds like an idyllic reversal of fortune. But in examining Tubman’s life, it’s clear that putting her face on America’s currency would undermine her legacy. By escaping slavery and helping many others do the same, Tubman became historic for essentially stealing “property.” Her legacy is rooted in resisting the foundation of American capitalism. Tubman didn’t respect America’s economic system, so making her a symbol of it would be insulting.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:15
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MariusLecter posted:Before I click, by subvert capitalism they mean freeing slaves, don't they... Joementum posted:I mean, there's #SlatePitches and then there's arguing that someone is "anti-Capitalist" because they help steal property... by which you mean slaves. WELP.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:15
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Dubstep Jesus posted:Washington Post also has an editorial against Tubman on the bill which I think has worse reasoning. There is a certain sort of activist who will never accept a victory.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:17
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What was the appeal of Jackson in the first place?
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Apr 20, 2016 21:18
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TildeATH posted:What was the appeal of Jackson in the first place? Bitchin' hair.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:19
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zoux posted:OH MY GOD  That's...that sure is...one way to look at it. I guess.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:20
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Boon posted:I noticed an acquaintance who is very active in black rights on FB is coming out strongly against putting Tubman on the $20. A lot of comments in support and backed up by an article in one (http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2015/04/keep_harriet_tubman_and_rosa_parks_off_the_20_bill.html). Holy poo poo this whole article 
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Apr 20, 2016 21:21
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TildeATH posted:What was the appeal of Jackson in the first place? Made the first real populist steps in the country, getting "the people" to mean "white men" rather than "land owning white men"; founded the party system; won Florida. I think we're saying that only one of those things has turned out well.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:22
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Oh god i hope it isnt tubman on the moneys. This old hooker that hangs outside my house looks exactly like Harriet Tubman and ill be reminded of her for life 
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Apr 20, 2016 21:22
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https://modernmoney.treasury.gov/ 5, 10, and 20 all changing.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:22
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Oh god i hope it isnt tubman on the moneys. This old hooker that hangs outside my house looks exactly like Harriet Tubman and ill be reminded of her for life It consistently amazes me that not only do you have the worst opinions, you have them for the stupidest goddamned reasons.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:23
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Dehry posted:https://modernmoney.treasury.gov/ Who wants to bet this is about to become a huge campaign issue in the GOP primary.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:23
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Dexo posted:In terms of white guilt and white washing things the biggest sin in regards to that to me is what the Mainstream has done to Martin Luther King. But that's an argument for another day. The activists who will be on the back of the new $5 include MLK, Eleanor Roosevelt, and the very underrated Marian Anderson, by the way. And I absolutely agree. This is just how I feel on the topic, but he was an incredibly complex person with faults all his own, and he was under enormous surveillance and pressure from the government, neither of which are covered extensively in public history. TildeATH posted:What was the appeal of Jackson in the first place? No one knows. Treasury couldn't find any records justifying the switch from Grover Cleveland to Jackson in 1928, although it was the 100th anniversary of his election and I suspect there was at least one person at the Treasury who was just dying to put Jackson on paper money since he hated it. He's still going to be on the back of the new $20.  EDIT: Also looks like Lucretia Mott, Sojourner Truth, Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Alice Paul will be on the back of the new $10 
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Apr 20, 2016 21:24
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zoux posted:Who wants to bet this is about to become a huge campaign issue in the GOP primary. I think a lot of Republicans aren't too hot on Andrew Jackson anyway. The alt-right will throw a fit though.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:26
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zoux posted:OH MY GOD Are we sure that this isn't some epic pro level trolling? Because Jesus Christ.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:26
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Oh god i hope it isnt tubman on the moneys. This old hooker that hangs outside my house looks exactly like Harriet Tubman and ill be reminded of her for life 3/10. Try harder next time. zoux posted:OH MY GOD For some reason all I can think about is this person watching an Avenger's movie and wondering why more people aren't outraged by all the property damage the superheroes commit in the film, and wonder if The Avenger's is secretly anti-Capitalist.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:26
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My idea for the new $20 was Shirley Chisholm on the front and Nixon boarding Marine One on the back.
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Apr 20, 2016 21:27
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