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AriadneThread
Feb 17, 2011

The Devil sounds like smoke and honey. We cannot move. It is too beautiful.


Dabir posted:

So that comedian touched his head to his forehead? That was clever of him.

look, he was popular for a reason, okay???

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beru04
May 4, 2013

Stop making me realise things.

Crosspeice posted:

Pokemon Music alternates between Pokemon March and Lullaby depending on the day, except for the weekends, where it's always March. They raise/lower the encounter rate, similar to the Black/White flutes in Gen 3 on.

That was a thing?! I bloody loved Pokemon March as a kid, and now a lot of my frustration with walking through grass makes sense...

SkyTalon2314
Aug 8, 2013

Carbon dioxide posted:

The Japanese name of Wobbuffet explains quite well why they make him pop up in the anime all the time after Team Rocket does their thing.

This is continued with Wynaut, who's japanese name (Sonano), roughly translates to 'Really?' or 'Is that so?', creating the perpetual conversation of: 'Is that so?' 'That's the way it is!'

Other languages don't really work with the pun in both pokemon names, though Wynaut is pretty much a pun no matter what language, it's just Wobuffett that didn't get translated into a pun for most languages.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Update 12: The Incredibly Pretty Girl!

Goldenrod City



Breathe in, breathe out. Breathe in, breathe out.

Pokemon Gym



: This GYM is home to normal-type POKéMON trainers. I recommend you use fighting-type POKéMON.



What would I do without that man? Anyway, Goldenrod City Gym is a slight maze with a load of flowers and girls. Man, I'm having flashbacks.

"you down!"

Hostile!




HP: 40 | ATK: 45 | DEF: 35 | SP.ATK: 40 | SP.DEF: 40 | SPD: 90 | TOTAL: 290
#136: Meowth



They see me rollin... uh, Pay Day (Neko ni Koban: Coin for a Cat) is a weak Normal move with 40BP, 20PP and 100% accuracy that scatters coins on the ground with a value equal to twice the user's level each time it's used. We'll pick it up in just a sec when we win.



It has been real smooth getting Churchill up in levels. I wonder if that'll apply to the rest of my future team members...



Aw yeah, we could buy... uh... half an Antidote?

"on any type..."

Good luck against Steel types then. Anyway, can't go this way now.



: I like you, but I won't hold back!



Some real ferocious trainers in here. Fury Swipes (Midare Hikkaki) is one of those lovely Normal muti-hit moves we'll see around here and there. It has 18BP, 15PP, 80% accuracy and hits between 2-5 times, with 3 being the average, giving this move an effective power of 54.



Haha, gently caress off.

"Keep it up!"

And another way is blocked. Great. But we can just go slightly to the right and go around.



Now that Churchill has caught up, it's time to use the other two members. Remember them?



Aw man, I thought we were done with the whips in these games.



Uh, was Jeremiah sitting near a level up this whole time? Whoops.



A lot of people make that mistake. Uh, that I'm weak, not that you're cute. Uhhhh, not that I'm saying you're not cute, it's just... ah whatever.

"strong POKéMON."

: But I have strong and cute POKéMON!



Aw crap that's all the easy fights out of the way.

"It's depressing."

: It's okay! If I just lose, I'll just try harder next time!



Well that's f**king ominous. Let's go prepare with the extra money we obtained.



A'ight. Let's do this.



: Everyone was into POKéMON, so I got into too! POKéMON are super-cute! You want to battle? I'm warning you--I'm good!

Hoo boy is she not loving kidding...

Gym Leader Battle :siren: VS Leader Whitney :siren:






Whitney: The Incredibly Pretty Girl
(From the word white)
Akane: Dynamite Pretty Gal!
(From akane, the Japanese name of the Rubia genus of climbing shrubs, or from akarui, bright or luminous)




HP: 70 | ATK: 45 | DEF: 48 | SP.ATK: 60 | SP.DEF: 65 | SPD: 35 | TOTAL: 323
#041: Clefairy



Due to the freight truck that is Churchill, this Clefairy is the least of our problems, but it can be a bit annoying if you let it. Now it should be noted that Whitney has been pretty sneaky here and given her Clefairy some Egg moves. It doesn't normally learn Metronome until level 34 and it can't learn Mimic any other way. So she's crafted her Pokemon to be a lot more potent. We'll go more into that in just a moment.



Okay, that's the first one down with minimal damage. Should be pretty easy from here on out.




HP: 95 | ATK: 80 | DEF: 105 | SP.ATK: 40 | SP.DEF: 70 | SPD: 100 | TOTAL: 490
#149: Miltank



Welcome to what may be one of the biggest difficulty spikes in Pokemon. Miltank is a very interesting combination of gently caress you, from its high stats, to its deadly movepool, to how you're still in the part of the game where you don't have a huge amount of options as your team just isn't really ready yet. First up, we have Attract (Meromero: Mad Love), a Normal status move with 15PP and 100% accuracy that, if the opponent is the opposite gender, will inflict them with infatuation, a nasty status that prevents the Pokemon from attacking 50% of the time for the rest of time both Pokemon are in battle.



If you were planning on using your most likely male starter in this battle, then think again. Miltank will use Attract on you and will more than likely outspeed you, so unless you like rolling the dice, it's best to switch out. I don't have such a luxury, I need to neuter this thing quickly.



Next up is its strongest move. Stomp (Fumitsuke: Trample) is a good Normal move with 65BP, 20PP, 100% accuracy and a 30% chance to flinch. With a higher than average Attack, this STAB move is going to hurt and the flinch chance could be devastating at the wrong time. More than likely, Miltank will go for this move but thankfully Kakarott can take three of them.



And so far my strategy is paying off. From how this battle goes, lowering the accuracy of Miltank makes it less likely to go for Rollout (Korogaru: Roll), a Rock move with 30BP, 20PP and 90% accuracy that doubles in power with each consecutive hit for five turns, capping out at 480BP. Unless you use Defense Curl beforehand, in which case it starts off at 60BP and builds to 960BP. If this hits and keeps hitting, this will devastate your team, no question. So finding ways to interrupt Rollout is one of the big things to winning this battle.



That should be good enough, don't want Kakarott taking too much damage. I stopped at 3 Smokescreens, since from there, the diminishing returns are just too low. Right now, it has a 50% chance to hit something, technically giving it the infatuation status for the rest of the battle.



...for all the good that did. Even though it can't hit as often, when it does, it still hurts a huge amount. So Jeremiah was at least useful in one regard.



Cause it's Churchill's time to shine. Would've been nice to get Hypnosis off so Churchill can do her work without much worry, but we'll manage.



As you can tell this is my main strategy, cause otherwise, my entire team falls to seven Stomps. So Miltank has a lot of very strong and dangerous moves it can use and it follows on from Clefairy. Both Rollout and Attract it learnt through TMs. It would normally have Stomp by this point anyway, so even without the TMs, it would still be pretty tough, but a lot more predictable. And be glad it knows Attract, cause otherwise it could learn Defense Curl and that would make Rollout even more of a game ender.



So what the hell can you do against such a monstrosity? Well, there's actually a lot of things you can do. It's just the matter of being able to pull off your strategy before you get trampled. There are a few things you need to note: first, Attract only works on male Pokemon; Rollout has 90% accuracy and can miss; Miltank is Whitney's last Pokemon, anything you do to it, aside from damage, will always be permanent; with its current moveset, the only move that can hit Ghost types is Rollout and consequently, all of its moves are resisted by Rock types; while it does have high Defense, it shouldn't be a concern when you've dealt with its high Attack and Speed; compared to its other stats, it has pretty low Special Defense.



With these things in mind, the first thing that seems incredibly effective is status. And you'd be right, paralysis is fantastic, cutting its Speed and potentially interrupt its Rollout massacre. Sleep can also be a good way to just give yourself time to breathe and press on with your strategy. Burn is also great if you can land it, chipping away at its health and neutering Stomp and the early turns of Rollout, hopefully ensuring it never reaches its later turns of Rollout. Poison, meanwhile, is the worst status to use, since it reduces its health and nothing else, but if its all you have...



50% accuracy my rear end... Uh, anyway, the strategy that I have available to me, is the lowering of a load of its stats. Since it can't switch out or boost its stats, what you lower is lowered the entire fight, there's nothing it can do if you lower accuracy, Attack or Speed. Therefore, Snubbull is a fantastic option and one I didn't really think of until I caught it. All the starters can be used as well. While Quilava is weak to Rollout, it has Smokescreen and can hit on Miltank's weaker Special Defense. Croconaw has, uh, Leer and Water Gun and maybe Bite if its level 21. Admittedly it's not the best choice, not the worse choice either. Bayleef is also a good choice, mainly due to Reflect and with the chance crits from Razor Leaf. Annoyingly, it only has Poisonpowder, but, uh, better than nothing, right?



Son of a... you've also got to account for Milk Drink (Miruku Nomi), a Normal status move with 10PP and restores 50% of her health. This can undo all the progress you've made if you get unlucky and it uses it often enough. But hey, at least it's not a turn where it's kicking your rear end, eh?



Like with accuracy and such, there's not a huge reason to go to -6, though it might be if you've got some real slowpokes on your team.



Now this is looking a lot more manageable. There are a few other Pokemon that work well. Both Gastly and Geodude are fantastic counters to this thing, more or less. But it is a hassle to backtrack if you don't have them handy. The trade for a Machop is a great idea, giving you a powerful super effective answer to your Normal problem, but it will get stomped if you just charge in fists flying. If you get real desperate, then buy a Wobbuffet and Counter it to oblivion. And finally, twist it back round and use Ditto. Nothing more satisfying than using Rollout on Miltank. And if you feel like boosting your own stats to compensate, there's always the X items. Revives are your friend also, there's a reason you can first buy them here.



Overall, while Miltank is a difficult bump in the road, perhaps even a bit much this early in the game, you still have a variety of tools to manage her. Figure out what your team can do, create a strategy and stick to it. It might be hard, it might be long, but eventually, you'll take down this drat cow. Does just one single Pokemon deserve all these words to really state a load of obvious things? Maybe, but I'm nothing if not thorough so maybe this is all necessary, cause if I feel like all these words are needed to take just one Pokemon down, then it's obviously something you need to prepare for.



Regardless, we're nearly done here. There's not much Miltank can really do, other than just stall us out with Milk Drink. And that's the main reason I revived up Jeremiah, to keep it asleep so Kakarott can take it out quickly so it hopefully doesn't use Milk Drink



Oh just faint already.



Thank you.

Gym Leader Defeated



: ...Waaaaaaah! You're mean! You shouldn't be so serious! You... you child, you!

Pokemon Gym



After such a tough and annoying battle, you're really not endearing me to your character. Unless this is supposed to make me feel good about finally beating you?



: Oh, no. You made WHITNEY cry. It's OK. She'll stop soon. She always cries when she loses.



Hrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.



: What? What do you want? A BADGE? Oh right. I forgot. Here's PLAINBADGE.



: PLAINBADGE lets your POKéMON use STRENGTH outside of battle. It also boosts your POKéMON's SPEED. Oh, you can have this too!



: It's ATTRACT! It makes full use of a POKéMON's charm. Isn't it just perfect for a cutie like me?



You know, it's fine. It's alright. It was definitely a puzzle of a battle and if Whitney is still cheery after this, then I am too.

"the ladies here."

Priorities, man.



But that's badge number three. Good job everyone.

Crosspeice fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Apr 20, 2016

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST
Many, many people are not prepared for Miltank's 100 base speed.

SkyTalon2314
Aug 8, 2013

Christ, that Miltank. I'll be perfectly honest in saying I don't really remember my first GSC playthrough, so I can't say how I beat it, but it was likely tough.

That Miltank gets MORE fun in the remakes, where it has Scrappy, so it can Stomp your ghosts now, but also a Lum Berry in case you wanted to Status it. Interestingly, it might actually be easier in the Rematch, because it now uses a Rest-Sleep Talk combo with Body Slam as its only attacking move. Still Scrappy, but with the randomness of Sleep Talk, it can end up wasting turns. Granted, it still has the Lum Berry, so unless you Status it before it can Rest, it'll get a free full heal.

Also, Miltank can show up in the Pokeathelon as Whitney is a potential opponent in the Speed Supreme Cup division.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

SkyTalon2314 posted:

Christ, that Miltank. I'll be perfectly honest in saying I don't really remember my first GSC playthrough, so I can't say how I beat it, but it was likely tough.

That Miltank gets MORE fun in the remakes, where it has Scrappy, so it can Stomp your ghosts now, but also a Lum Berry in case you wanted to Status it. Interestingly, it might actually be easier in the Rematch, because it now uses a Rest-Sleep Talk combo with Body Slam as its only attacking move. Still Scrappy, but with the randomness of Sleep Talk, it can end up wasting turns. Granted, it still has the Lum Berry, so unless you Status it before it can Rest, it'll get a free full heal.

Also, Miltank can show up in the Pokeathelon as Whitney is a potential opponent in the Speed Supreme Cup division.

On the other hand you can buy focus blast for 5500 in the remake and just shred whitney with it assuming you have a dude that can use it.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
That Miltank's thirst for blood is unquenchable.

I've heard that her Clefairy very often pulls off some pretty nasty moves with Metronome, like Sacred Fire. Never seen it personally, though.

MarquiseMindfang
Jan 6, 2013

vriska (vriska)

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

That Miltank's thirst for blood is unquenchable.

I've heard that her Clefairy very often pulls off some pretty nasty moves with Metronome, like Sacred Fire. Never seen it personally, though.

Most of the time I play these games it just straight up explodes.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



One extra part about Miltank that you didn't really call out - It's level 20. If you're rolling with a full party of six, you're probably about 16 or 17 now if you haven't intentionally grinder. So not only does it have solid stats and a nasty move set, it's even got you beat in levels too.

Also, I can't honestly remember since its been so long - are there actually any normal types who DO have a strong Special Attack? Seems like pretty much every write up includes a phrase like "great options for TM's but bad special attack limits the usefulness".

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

MagusofStars posted:

One extra part about Miltank that you didn't really call out - It's level 20. If you're rolling with a full party of six, you're probably about 16 or 17 now if you haven't intentionally grinder. So not only does it have solid stats and a nasty move set, it's even got you beat in levels too.

Also, I can't honestly remember since its been so long - are there actually any normal types who DO have a strong Special Attack? Seems like pretty much every write up includes a phrase like "great options for TM's but bad special attack limits the usefulness".

Clefairy/Clefable have an all right one if I remember right. In the first games normal types tended to be physical focused around attack rather than special because that was the attack type of all normal moves. Then again, they made poo poo like crabby so....

Pooncha
Feb 15, 2014

Making the impossible possumable
Chalk me as another person who was unprepared for Miltank and was horribly mauled for it. Once you know how to deal with her it's a tricky but doable fight, but when you came from Bugsy and all the scrubby trainers who didn't need any strategy to beat, Whitney is one hell of a wake-up call.

Kikas
Oct 30, 2012
You forgot to note that the Gym is in a shape of a Cleafairy :v:

Paul.Power
Feb 7, 2009

The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

MagusofStars posted:

are there actually any normal types who DO have a strong Special Attack? Seems like pretty much every write up includes a phrase like "great options for TM's but bad special attack limits the usefulness".
At a glance... the Porygon line? Plus anything with an attack-over-defence focus tends to have decent special attack, like Stantler or the Whismur line (although they don't come in' til next generation).

e: oh yeah, and some of the stuff that became Fairy type in Gen 6.

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013

MagusofStars posted:

One extra part about Miltank that you didn't really call out - It's level 20. If you're rolling with a full party of six, you're probably about 16 or 17 now if you haven't intentionally grinder. So not only does it have solid stats and a nasty move set, it's even got you beat in levels too.

Also, I can't honestly remember since its been so long - are there actually any normal types who DO have a strong Special Attack? Seems like pretty much every write up includes a phrase like "great options for TM's but bad special attack limits the usefulness".

It's the first sign that this game's level curve is poo poo.

In Gen II, well... not really. Porygon 2 has a great 105, Clefable has 95, Girafarig has 90, and Porygon, Wigglytuff and Stantler come in at a respectable 85. (It's different in Gen I, of course, when Special was a single stat.)

Nowadays it's a little better, with 11 Normal-type pokemon with >80 SpAtk, or 14 is you count the 2 legendaries and Mega Pidgeot. (Clefairy's line has dropped out, since they're now Fairy.)

(I used >80 as a baseline for strong Special Attack.)

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

FoolyCharged posted:

Clefairy/Clefable have an all right one if I remember right. In the first games normal types tended to be physical focused around attack rather than special because that was the attack type of all normal moves. Then again, they made poo poo like crabby so....
I use a Clefable in my Blue playthrough right now and it kicks rear end with Thunderbolt and Blizzard. Strength and Submission too because why not! It really learns everything...

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014



Miltank was a huge roadblock for the 5 year old me. I think my brother managed to take the game back from me a couple of times when I asked him to beat Whitney for me though, so good for him.

Whitney and Elesa are easily my least favorite gym fights.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

MagusofStars posted:

One extra part about Miltank that you didn't really call out - It's level 20. If you're rolling with a full party of six, you're probably about 16 or 17 now if you haven't intentionally grinder. So not only does it have solid stats and a nasty move set, it's even got you beat in levels too.

Good call, I'll add it in somewhere. I've never really rolled with a full team this early. Tend to spread my team throughout to use more niche stuff and ones I've never used before.

Kikas posted:

You forgot to note that the Gym is in a shape of a Cleafairy :v:

I wanted to, but man, just couldn't find the right time. Probably would've mentioned it when I went over the remake's stuff, which should be up on Friday.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

hopeandjoy posted:

Miltank was a huge roadblock for the 5 year old me. I think my brother managed to take the game back from me a couple of times when I asked him to beat Whitney for me though, so good for him.

Whitney and Elesa are easily my least favorite gym fights.

At least Whitney forces you to think your way out, the only thing you absolutely can't stop is Milk Drink, though it's still really annoying to go against the 50% "no you don't attack lol" chance of Attract.

Elesa is just unfun bullshit since she isn't even hard, but Double Team spam is terrible and makes the fight against her really unfun. Add to that paralysis and yeeeah, it's just badly designed.

Tardigrade
Jul 13, 2012

Half arthropod, half marshmallow, all cute.

Blaze Dragon posted:

At least Whitney forces you to think your way out, the only thing you absolutely can't stop is Milk Drink, though it's still really annoying to go against the 50% "no you don't attack lol" chance of Attract.

Elesa is just unfun bullshit since she isn't even hard, but Double Team spam is terrible and makes the fight against her really unfun. Add to that paralysis and yeeeah, it's just badly designed.

On the other hand, a solid Ground or Ground/Rock type really hamstrings Elesa's strategy.

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015

Tardigrade posted:

On the other hand, a solid Ground or Ground/Rock type really hamstrings Elesa's strategy.

Ground on its own, not quite. Because, you know... electric/flying.

FishOnAPiano
Oct 9, 2012
Yet another person chiming in to say that kid me had his team's faces wrecked several times over by that singular cow.
It's been a long time, but I think I wound up backtracking and training up a Geodude just so I had something that could resist it.

Roro
Oct 9, 2012

HOO'S HEAD GOES ALL THE WAY AROUND?

Tardigrade posted:

On the other hand, a solid Ground or Ground/Rock type really hamstrings Elesa's strategy.

A Blitzle will also gently caress her up, since both of its abilities will absorb Electri moves, and Flame Charge gives you a speed boost so if you didn't pick up a ground/rock type from the desert you can tap away at her that way.

GodofDiscord
Sep 5, 2013

Not the strongest, but the cutest.
I think I never had a problem with Elesa the one time that I played Black and White. She was hyped up as this roadblock on par with Whitney, and I was dreading the encounter, but I beat her on the first time, and by the time one of her Pokemon used Volt Switch (I think that was the name of the attack?) she had nothing left to switch to.

My main problem with Whitney isn't the gym trainers, or her Clefairy because they were easy. It was that goddamn Miltank that kept screwing me over; being a kid that just chose pokemon that suited my style, my strategy in the games has always been brute-force through everything and use tons of healing items. I don't even remember how I beat Miltank. But even though I eagerly started new games on the PKM games, I never did so with G/S/C because fuuuuuuck dealing with Miltank again.

So thanks OP for detailing why Miltank was a problem, and making a good strategy against it. Really appreciate it :yayclod:

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

it's admirable that you kind of need to make a strategy for her, but it feels accidental rather than by design? Like no one really has trouble with even Morty's gengar unless your team's real bad and after that you typically have enough options everywhere to counter things until you slam into Clair's Kingdra. But this is just plopping down a Miltank at a period where you're still gaining ground, you dont have a lot of super effective or resistant options and are probably not too high of a level. At least Bugsy's Scyther was hamstrung by being pretty low level, having a bad defensive typing and (in GSC) having a weak stab

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Well, I just finished Crosspiece's Yellow LP (great job on that, by the way) and caught up to this LP at...loving Whitney. :argh: Yes, I am among the many who got punked by a drat cow as well. Whitney's Miltank really is just a perfect storm of problems that the player will probably not be ready for, as others mentioned. It's got a very strong STAB move that was very rare in Gen 1 (the only ones who knew Stomp were Exeggutor, Ponyta and Rapidash, IIRC), a status move that can weaken everything from 1 to all 6 members of your team, a HP restoring move, and a multi-turn move that gets stronger over time. Couple that with Whitney being the first place you encounter a Miltank at all, and you have probably one of the biggest difficulty spikes in Gen 2.

I think what makes Whitney the infamous nightmare she and her Miltank have become is the comparison to generations that happens often, and at the time, Whitney's only comparison was Gen 1's third Gym Leader, Lt. Surge. His team in all Gen 1 games had a weakness that multiple Pokemon could exploit and the Pokemon that could exploit it were easy to acquire well before fighting Surge. Whitney only has that optional Machop trade mentioned earlier, and you could pass it up thinking you could easily steamroll a Normal-focused Gym because again, Normal type in Gen 1 wasn't anything to praise about. Whitney is basically one of a few times the Pokemon franchise lures you into a false sense of security and then punishes you hard for your assumption.

Tardigrade
Jul 13, 2012

Half arthropod, half marshmallow, all cute.

AradoBalanga posted:

because again, Normal type in Gen 1 wasn't anything to praise about.

Are you kidding? Psychic aside, Normal is the most dominant type in Gen 1. Tauros, Chansey, Snorlax, and Persian are all top tier. Normal also has the secret "can't be paralyzed by Body Slam" ability.

Silegna
Aug 20, 2013

Hey, heads up. I'm about to unleash my rage.

Tardigrade posted:

Are you kidding? Psychic aside, Normal is the most dominant type in Gen 1. Tauros, Chansey, Snorlax, and Persian are all top tier. Normal also has the secret "can't be paralyzed by Body Slam" ability.

Wait, what.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Tardigrade posted:

Are you kidding? Psychic aside, Normal is the most dominant type in Gen 1. Tauros, Chansey, Snorlax, and Persian are all top tier. Normal also has the secret "can't be paralyzed by Body Slam" ability.
I admit, I never used any of those 4 Pokemon back in Blue or Yellow (the Gen 1 games I owned). Mostly because a lot of the other Pokemon in Gen 1 were more entertaining and appealing to younger me. Plus, Tauros and Chansey were so hard to catch in the Safari Zone, I had to resort to using the Safari Zone glitch just to catch them (same goes for Kangaskhan).

Pooncha
Feb 15, 2014

Making the impossible possumable

Tardigrade posted:

Are you kidding? Psychic aside, Normal is the most dominant type in Gen 1. Tauros, Chansey, Snorlax, and Persian are all top tier. Normal also has the secret "can't be paralyzed by Body Slam" ability.

Silegna posted:

Wait, what.

Echoing this. What? :stare:

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013

Silegna posted:

Wait, what.

Yup. Pokemon of a particular type can't be affected by status effects delivered by moves of that type, e.g. Fire types can't be burned by Fire moves. Body Slam's paralysis is considered Normal-type in Gen 1, so Normal-type pokemon are immune to it.

Similarly, Poison pokemon can only be poisoned by Twineedle. In Gen II, Steel-type Pokemon can be poisoned by it!

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Tardigrade posted:

Normal also has the secret "can't be paralyzed by Body Slam" ability.

Funnily enough, even Smogon didn't know this, and had to update Showdown to include that aspect for Gen I battles. With that said, that aspect isn't a secret, since they do mention it in Pokemon Stadium 2.

woke kaczynski
Jan 23, 2015

How do you do, fellow antifa?



Fun Shoe

Tardigrade posted:

Are you kidding? Psychic aside, Normal is the most dominant type in Gen 1. Tauros, Chansey, Snorlax, and Persian are all top tier. Normal also has the secret "can't be paralyzed by Body Slam" ability.

...is that still in the later gens? How have i played Pokémon games for literally thousands of hours and not known that?

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

apokaladle posted:

...is that still in the later gens? How have i played Pokémon games for literally thousands of hours and not known that?

probably the other type/status immunities are. How often does body slam come up in later games anyway? If it shows up as little as I remember that could be why you didn't know.

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014



apokaladle posted:

...is that still in the later gens? How have i played Pokémon games for literally thousands of hours and not known that?

Status immunities are now based off of the status itself rather than the type of the move that causes it, with exceptions like Grass types being immune to powder moves. All Fire types are immune to burn, Ice types cannot be frozen, Electric types cannot be paralyzed (Ground types can if hit by a non-Electric paralysis causing move), Steel and Poison types cannot be poisoned, and all types can be put to sleep now in Gen VI. The newest edition is Grass immunity to powder moves and Electric immunity to paralysis.

hopeandjoy fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Apr 21, 2016

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Tardigrade posted:

Normal also has the secret "can't be paralyzed by Body Slam" ability.

How does Gen 1 even work? :psyduck:

Solumin posted:

Yup. Pokemon of a particular type can't be affected by status effects delivered by moves of that type, e.g. Fire types can't be burned by Fire moves. Body Slam's paralysis is considered Normal-type in Gen 1, so Normal-type pokemon are immune to it.

Similarly, Poison pokemon can only be poisoned by Twineedle. In Gen II, Steel-type Pokemon can be poisoned by it!

Oh. Well, that's certainly something.

Valgaav
Feb 21, 2012

Solumin posted:

Yup. Pokemon of a particular type can't be affected by status effects delivered by moves of that type, e.g. Fire types can't be burned by Fire moves. Body Slam's paralysis is considered Normal-type in Gen 1, so Normal-type pokemon are immune to it.

Similarly, Poison pokemon can only be poisoned by Twineedle. In Gen II, Steel-type Pokemon can be poisoned by it!

Is there an exemption to this in moves that only cause that effect (I.E. thunderwave on Electric types) or am i remembering wrong that you can use those and they work?

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Valgaav posted:

Is there an exemption to this in moves that only cause that effect (I.E. thunderwave on Electric types) or am i remembering wrong that you can use those and they work?

Some types are given straight up immunity to certain statuses. Let's look at the electric type. Before Gen VI, you could paralyze electric types through the use of Stun Spore. But now you can't paralyze electric types at all. No exceptions.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Oh yeah give the typing with traditionally fast mons immunity to being slowed down by status.


(ignore that fire mons have usually high attack and cant be burned)

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Kikas
Oct 30, 2012
I was the most stumped by the fact I didn't get a badge right away, and I didn't notice. So no SQRTBOTTLE for me, and I was stuck in Goldenrod for a while. I bought a magazine that had a walkthrough in it just so I could get my badge :v: In the remakes the trainer right in front of Whitney stops you and says "hey talk to her again you dingus" , but they didn't do that in Gold unless you talked to them yourself, which lead to a lot of stopped progress for 4th grade kids who didn't speak english as their first language.

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