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oddium posted:harrison ford was by far the worst part and i'm glad he died what so he won't drag episode viii down too The movie grinds to a halt whenever Han shows up. He doesn't really add anything to the story. Like imagine having roughly the same script, but without Han: FN tells the Resistance people he's on their side, but he's really interested in protecting Rey. He blows up a planet just to save her, and the Resistance takes credit for the victory as a propaganda thing. Now FN is stuck working for the Resistance, while Rey flies off on some mission, leaving him alone. That's a good story, and is roughly what actually happens, but Han and Luke are these Poochie characters that distract from everything. (Whenever Luke's not onscreen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's Luke?") SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 03:24
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Even with all these perfectly legitimate complaints, I find The Force Awakens vastly more entertaining than 4 of the 6 previous Star Wars movies 
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Apr 21, 2016 03:30
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Whack posted:Even with all these perfectly legitimate complaints, I find The Force Awakens vastly more entertaining than 4 of the 6 previous Star Wars movies That's because Force Awakens has almost exactly the same narrative as Star Wars: Retold (By Someone Who Hasn't Seen It) [aka Star Wars From Bits And Pieces], the youtube video where someone tries to summarize the entire OT in three minutes, based only on Star Wars' pop-culture reputation. It's a breezy cliffs-notes version of the films that's a little funny but loses a ton on nuance in the process of being abridged. So you have, like 'Darth Vader is this crazy bad guy who wears black and the good guys wear white so and when Vader dies they're like happily ever after.' Like TFA, the woman in the video barely even mentions the Force. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 04:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's because Force Awakens has almost exactly the same narrative as Star Wars: Retold (By Someone Who Hasn't Seen It) [aka Star Wars From Bits And Pieces], the youtube video where someone tries to summarize the entire OT in three minutes, based only on Star Wars' pop-culture reputation. Is TFA irredeemable trash to you or something?
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Apr 21, 2016 04:12
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Whack posted:Is TFA irredeemable trash to you or something? No, I think it's pretty decent.
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Apr 21, 2016 04:18
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No, I think it's pretty decent. It's in the top ten Star Wars movies.
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Apr 21, 2016 04:24
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There's been plenty of good readings with Han in an integral role, and Ford did a great job with his role.
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Apr 21, 2016 04:28
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Neurolimal posted:There's been plenty of good readings with Han in an integral role, and Ford did a great job with his role. I agree that Ford did a good job, but I really don't understand how Han is integral to the film.
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Apr 21, 2016 04:36
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like TFA, the woman in the video barely even mentions the Force. There are numerically more references to the force & force actions in TFA than in ANH 
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Apr 21, 2016 04:56
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Schwarzwald posted:I agree that Ford did a good job, but I really don't understand how Han is integral to the film. He's Rey's adoptive father, partially helps Finn change his mind at the cantina through his own experiences making bad choices, and ultimately gives his life to prove that he's not an (entirely) bad father to Kylo. He's also the "young in spirit" bridge between the old generation and the new generation, and inspires Rey and Finn into believing they really can change their lives. Leia (in the OT representive of the spirit of the rebellion) only appears in the film once Finn becomes determined and confident in what he wants to do. Old Han is basically the Sanders of the star wars universe  Sure, you could replace him in those individual bits, but together his appearance adds further depth to Han and adds additional nuance to the films' main messages beyond "New Generation Best, Old People Die Now".
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Apr 21, 2016 05:03
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oddium posted:harrison ford was by far the worst part and i'm glad he died what so he won't drag episode viii down too yeah gonna have to say you're wrong unless you passed out during the entire maz kanata sequence
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Apr 21, 2016 05:44
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Homework Explainer posted:yeah gonna have to say you're wrong unless you passed out during the entire maz kanata sequence I personally think that maz sequence is a good time. Just after you see all the cool aliens and you should be back for the baddies attack.
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Apr 21, 2016 06:27
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Lampsacus posted:That got me thinking. When is the best time to pee during TFA? And the other movies maybe? Definitely the bit on Han's ship.
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Apr 21, 2016 06:30
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turtlecrunch posted:Actually Finn's first decision was to get the gently caress out of the First Order because he was traumatized on his first field mission. He was traumatized so much that he hopped right into a tie fighter and gunned down a bunch of dudes he grew up with, that scene wasn't finn being traumatized it was him realizing the stormtroopers are badguys.
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Apr 21, 2016 07:55
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Are we sure those stormtroopers he gunned down were lost causes?
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Apr 21, 2016 08:53
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Lampsacus posted:That got me thinking. When is the best time to pee during TFA? And the other movies maybe? Before and after the movie?
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Apr 21, 2016 09:27
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PiedPiper posted:Are we sure those stormtroopers he gunned down were lost causes? Shh, don't think too much about it!
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Apr 21, 2016 09:28
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MonsieurChoc posted:So, who had the better Space Nazi speech? General Hux or Gihren Zabi? Gundam is the best Star Wars.
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Apr 21, 2016 09:37
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Lampsacus posted:That got me thinking. When is the best time to pee during TFA? And the other movies maybe? ANH: Probably the bit where everyone is hanging around on the Falcon after going into hyperspace where Han goes on about how he doesn't believe in the force ESB: Luke flying and landing on Dagobah ROTJ: Anytime they're on the surface of Endor--especially before the speeder bikes PM: Escaping from Naboo when we meet R2 Clones: This is tougher...maybe the droid factory? Sith: I can't think of a good time, but probably from when Obi-Wan is asking Anakin to spy on Sheev to when Obi-Wan departs for Utapau FA: On Han's freighter
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Apr 21, 2016 12:16
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Toilet Mouth posted:
Han or Leia is Rorschach; everyone else has moved onto new stages in their lives, these two are still reliving the past.
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Apr 21, 2016 12:35
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Waffles Inc. posted:Clones: This is tougher...maybe the droid factory?
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Apr 21, 2016 12:40
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Waffles Inc. posted:ESB: Luke flying and landing on Dagobah What about Millennium Falcon inside an asteroid worm? That's the bit I like the least.
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Apr 21, 2016 13:54
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Go to the bathroom during the Han and Leia scene where they dump all that exposition on us. I hate that scene. Almost as bad as the dialogue at the beginning of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull where Indy recaps with Mac what they've been up to for 20 years while they have guns pointed at their face.
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Apr 21, 2016 14:15
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The droid factory is fun and very thematically interesting. One of he highlights of a movie packed with highlights.
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Apr 21, 2016 14:16
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Basebf555 posted:Go to the bathroom during the Han and Leia scene where they dump all that exposition on us. I hate that scene. Which one is that?
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Apr 21, 2016 15:21
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THE BAR posted:Which one is that? I suppose I'm exaggerating a little bit, its really only like two or three lines, but I hate them. Its the scene where Han says "I went back to doing what I do best, and so did you", something like that. On the surface they're discussing why they lost Ben and how their relationship crumbled, the real purpose of the scene is "here's a quick synopsis of what happened in the past 20 years."
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Apr 21, 2016 15:42
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Elfgames posted:He was traumatized so much that he hopped right into a tie fighter and gunned down a bunch of dudes he grew up with, that scene wasn't finn being traumatized it was him realizing the stormtroopers are badguys. No he didn't, that was a completely different scene and occurred after he had reported to Phasma, and Kylo had tortured Poe and Poe had recovered enough that he could pilot.
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Apr 21, 2016 16:26
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PiedPiper posted:What about Millennium Falcon inside an asteroid worm? That's the bit I like the least. Nah, that has the part where 3PO cockblocks Han, which is the best.
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Apr 21, 2016 17:11
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Basebf555 posted:I suppose I'm exaggerating a little bit, its really only like two or three lines, but I hate them. When and how do you propose that information be conveyed to be audience.
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Apr 21, 2016 18:07
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euphronius posted:When and how do you propose that information be conveyed to be audience. Nah, no proposal. Just because I'm criticizing an aspect of a movie doesn't mean I have to propose anything. The lines are awkward and unnatural in a way that I feel takes away from Han and Leia's reunion.
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Apr 21, 2016 18:21
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euphronius posted:When and how do you propose that information be conveyed to be audience. Visually. Nearly everything about Han's backstory is conveyed through expository dialogue alone. For example: instead of people standing around talking about how Han has been working as a conman, it would have been about as easy to just show Han conning someone. Before the big patricide scene, there is almost no visualization of the fact that Kylo is Han's son - just the one quick shot where Han has a pained expression. Their entire relationship is exposition. As a contrast, Luke's relation to his missing father in A New Hope is clearly-visualized via the Obiwan character, while dialogue about Anakin is employed only for subtext. Note that when you get to Empire, Luke's relation to Obiwan is still clearly-visualized via the blue ghost effect. Whenever Luke talks about Anakin, he's thinking of Obiwan - because he imagines that Anakin was like Obiwan. TFA doesn't have this. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 18:43
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Obi wan just says everything to Luke about his dad and its reinforced by a line or two from Owen.
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Apr 21, 2016 19:17
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Having Han take Finn and Rey to a con would clash with the reveal that Cool Surrogate Father Han turned out to be a pretty terrible full-time dad to Kylo. As it stands we get to see the results of his conning catch up to him without intentionally endangering either of them. Kylo and Han's relationship is barely relayed outside of describing it because Han was an absent father, not an abusive father. The film's already quite dense without a montage flashback of Han dropping Kylo off at space-daycare.
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Apr 21, 2016 19:24
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rear end Catchcum posted:Obi wan just says everything to Luke about his dad and its reinforced by a line or two from Owen. You're misunderstanding subtext. You get the obvious image of Obiwan handing Luke the sword and watching approvingly as Luke activates it. This image is accompanied by the dialogue "your father wanted you to have this", which cements the already-visualized idea that Obiwan is standing in for the father. If you were to watch Episode 4 as a silent film, there would be no trace of the plot point that Luke's father died and he was adopted by his uncle. However, the story would still unfold in exactly the same way: Luke is unhappy with his one dad, so he finds a wizard who acts as his new dad and gives him a sword. If you were to remove the dialogue from TFA, the fact that Kylo is Han's son is revealed one hour later in the film's runtime - changing it from a plot point to a full plot twist. TFA has a shitload of extremely clumsy exposition: Snoke: The droid will soon be delivered to the Resistance, leading them to the last Jedi. If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise. Hux: Supreme Leader, I take full responsibility for th-- Snoke: General! Our strategy must now change. Hux: The weapon. It is ready. I believe the time has come to use it. We shall destroy the government that supports the Resistance, the Republic. Without their friends to protect them, the Resistance will be vulnerable, and we will stop them before they reach Skywalker. Snoke: Go. Oversee preparations. Hux: Yes, Supreme Leader. Snoke: There's been an awakening. Have you felt it? Kylo: Yes. Snoke: There's something more. The droid we seek is aboard the Millennium Falcon. In the hands of your father, Han Solo. Like just think about this for a second. Snoke is explaining who Luke Skywalker is to people who have been hunting Luke for years. Snoke is also explaining who BB8 is to the people who first discovered BB8. On top of this, Hux is explaining what the Republic is to the Supreme Leader of the Republic's greatest enemy. And, on top of that, Snoke then explains who Han Solo is to Han Solo's own son. Like, "as you might remember, your father's name is Han Solo and you are searching for a robot who's trying to reach Luke Skywalker. And your job is to stop this robot." "Well as you know, Snoke, we are fighting an enemy called the Republic and they are protecting the robot that is trying to reach Luke Skywalker." "Luke Skywalker is the last Jedi." This is straight-up idiotic. And the part that could actually bear fleshing out, the 'awakening' thing, is just met with a 'yes'. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 20:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Kylo: Yes. thats pretty funny actually
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Apr 21, 2016 21:10
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I really do feel like "Ben" was supposed to the be an "I am your father" twist. And that Snoke scene and Han and Leia scenes were reshoots, for whatever reason.
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Apr 21, 2016 21:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
No way around it, this is indeed some clunky poo poo. I saw it once in the theater and haven't seen it again since, I guess I had forgotten. But reading this now I remember how bad it was.
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Apr 21, 2016 21:47
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It absolutely seems like reshoots or something, because of the sheer number of things that are never visualized: -The fact that everyone's searching for Luke. -That Luke is not only planning to unleash New Jedi, but has the power to do so. -What is a 'New Jedi'? -That Snoke is drastically changed his goal from chasing BB8 to just destroying everything. -The Republic was protecting BB8? -Etc. The basic point is that the dialogue is directly at odds with the visual presentation. Not counting the opening crawl, the reveal of Luke at the end is also presented as a major twist. Like "there's this mystery map and everyone wants it - but where does it lead?" So, at the end of the film: "oh poo poo it's Luke!" But instead, the characters are constantly talking about Luke and the Jedi, in a film where Jedis never appear onscreen. Again, contrast this with A New Hope, where we are constantly shown what a Jedi is via the Obi Wan character, and his laser sword training scene. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 21:54
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Basebf555 posted:I suppose I'm exaggerating a little bit, its really only like two or three lines, but I hate them. Ooooh, I thought you meant a scene in ESB!
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Apr 21, 2016 23:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It absolutely seems like reshoots or something, because of the sheer number of things that are never visualized: It is a reshoot and they even CGIed Ren's helmet on. Viller fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 23:40
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