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RuanGacho posted:If we could set a few billion a year aside in your scenario we could be creating libertopia on Mars instead.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:03
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Kilroy posted:We should pick five or six states and designate them as lost causes. Set aside a few billion each year to relocate anyone who isn't white and wants out, Unstated question here is "where would these people go, and why wouldn't they get poo poo on just as much" (reminder: Michigan is full of Confederate Flags).
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Apr 23, 2016 19:04
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Kilroy posted:Seems to me you lack reading comprehension. Maybe your state is paying its teachers too much? And white Democrats? Hmm?
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Apr 23, 2016 19:05
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Rygar201 posted:And white Democrats? Hmm? computer parts posted:Unstated question here is "where would these people go, and why wouldn't they get poo poo on just as much" (reminder: Michigan is full of Confederate Flags). Kilroy posted:...wealth there. Anyone professing a love of conservative economic or social principles gets a free one-way bus trip to go take a closer look.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:08
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Rygar201 posted:And white Democrats? Hmm? Flittering through the empty libraries, they can only be spotted on the peripheral of Marxist America.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:09
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So our friends over at The Atlantic have another article about Kansas [url]https://=http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/kansass-never-ending-budget-mess/479400/[/url] quote:Dave Trabert, the president of the conservative Kansas Policy Institute, acknowledged that public opinion had moved strongly against Brownback’s economic policy, but he said the real problem was that the tax cuts were never pared with structural spending reforms. “Most people don’t understand that spending set another new record last year,” Trabert told me. “You can’t have a conservative tax policy and a liberal spending policy.”
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Apr 23, 2016 19:12
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Kilroy posted:How many times am I going to have to do this? Is "free bus ride" code for "forced relocation"? You do know most people don't like moving, right?
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Apr 23, 2016 19:12
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KomradeX posted:So our friends over at The Atlantic have another article about Kansas Liberals, those guys always spending money without suggesting a funding resource.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:14
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computer parts posted:Is "free bus ride" code for "forced relocation"? You do know most people don't like moving, right? You see the secret to liberal paradise is actually the relentless prosecution of Thought Crime.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:15
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RuanGacho posted:
At this exact moment I feel that there is little that progressives or the Democratic party can do to change the game, this is more about trying to keep the boat from sinking then improving the overall condition of the boat. At present we're in something of a crisis mode and just trying to keep things together, I don't think changing the nature of the game is in the cards at the moment. To bring in my Narrativist framework, the only thing I can think of that would break the mindset of people this deeply entrenched into that mode of thinking would to be have a massive shock of narrative dysphoria followed by an extended period without access to Media sources that reinforce the narrative. That is how I personally broke out of it, my period of homelessness was both a massive shock of narrative dysphoria to my own Inner Narrative, as well as leaving me without any access to things like Prison Planet. My Inner Narrative was shattered, and I couldn't go get it reinforced, so I was forced to deal with myself and reality as it was. I'm not saying that this is the only possible way to shake someone out of that mindset, it is however the only way that I personally know of, having experienced it myself. I don't know how you could expand that idea on to a national level, when you shake people out of a mindset that deeply they often go through a period where they are largely unable to care for themselves and need lots of outside support and help. We are talking about roughly 20% of the US population, putting each and every one of them through some form of identity crisis is simply not really viable. That said, the present status quo will be very short-lived I feel. Based on my own experiences as well as my observations of the trajectory of right-wing extremism at present, Trump is creating a movement that will inevitably end in some level of violence. How much violence and exactly when that violence will become readily apparent to the US public is virtually impossible to predict. In my personal view though when it becomes readily apparent to both Trump and his supporters that he will not be the next president of the United States is when you will see violent rhetoric start to translate into violent action. This will probably take a variety of forms- everything from more militia standoffs, to a dramatic increase in the number of hate crimes being committed, to SJW's that become targeted by the Alt-Right and Dark and Enlightment being murdered instead of simply endlessly harassed/stalked. In my view exactly how that violence comes about, how the United States public reacts to it, and exactly how much of it there is and who is ultimately the target of that violence will have a massive impact on us politics that I feel will define the political identity of the current generation. That said though, once the momentum that is driving the violence falls off then there will be a real chance to have this conversation in a context where much more meaningful changes can be enacted. At present though, this is a wave crashing upon the rocks. It can't be stopped, it can only be endured and the damage mitigated as much as possible. Once the tide recedes and the ocean calms it will be a different story however. I personally remain extremely optimistic about the direction of America in the long term of 10 years or more. I just think the next two to three years are going to suck some serious poo poo, and then there's going to be a rebuilding period. Edit: Fixed many typos. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 19:17
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computer parts posted:Is "free bus ride" code for "forced relocation"? You do know most people don't like moving, right? They don't have to move if they don't want to, but they'll probably want to.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:23
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KomradeX posted:So our friends over at The Atlantic have another article about Kansas
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Apr 23, 2016 19:29
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Oh you know the answer.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:33
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Kilroy posted:The budget is one thing, but Kansas overall is in pretty terrible shape, balanced budget or not. Is he even trying to argue that liberal spending policies (also, lol) are the cause of that, or is he just hoping that if he says "liberal" enough folks will forget that all the tax cuts haven't done poo poo? We must cut taxes to spur on the prosperity that was lost when we cut spending to make ends meet after we cut taxes to spur on the prosperity that was lost when we cut spending to make ends meet after we cut taxes...
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Apr 23, 2016 19:36
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Meanwhile, here in California our budget situation has been incredibly rose the last couple of years. Funny, that.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:38
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Meanwhile, here in California our budget situation has been incredibly rose the last couple of years. Residual prosperity from Reagan era tax cuts.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:39
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Meanwhile, here in California our budget situation has been incredibly rose the last couple of years. Phase 1 is complete, now end Feinstein.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:49
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We should force republicans to walk from Russia, through Poland and back home to Germany. That fixed the problem last time.
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Apr 23, 2016 19:55
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I just remembered an old debate that I feel is relevant to the topic of liberals being too smug in their attitudes towards conservatives for the past few decades. This is an interview of Noam Chomsky conducted by William F Buckley Jr, the man who founded the National Review and one of the most important conservative thinkers of his age. The topic was the Vietnam War. All throughout the entire interview Chomsky demonstrates an extremely idealized version of what I think some in this thread are calling for in terms of how he tries to debate the topic with William F Buckley Jr. Watch how William F Buckley Jr, one of the single most influential conservative thinkers to have lived, behaves in response. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEIrZO069Kg
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Apr 23, 2016 20:04
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Rygar201 posted:Lmao, we're so superior to those stupid rednecks we should turn their homes into the thunderdome. Conservatives continue to have no idea what humor is
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Apr 23, 2016 20:16
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Rygar201 posted:You see the secret to liberal paradise is actually the relentless prosecution of Thought Crime. I am glad you are here to police the liberal cred of an obvious joke.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:17
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archangelwar posted:I am glad you are here to police the liberal cred of an obvious joke. That was not an obvious joke, and it was a post by computer parts. Nice try though.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:19
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Please tell me more about how the failing of the left is not treating the right respectfully enough 
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Apr 23, 2016 20:29
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Hodgepodge posted:Please tell me more about how the failing of the left is not treating the right respectfully enough If anything, the failure of the left is embracing the framing of "identity politics" instead of realizing that some policies don't have to benefit everyone equally.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:45
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archangelwar posted:I am glad you are here to police the liberal cred of an obvious joke. Well zoux wasn't around. Also I'm not a conservative, Blue Squares.
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Apr 23, 2016 20:45
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The joke is that wanting people to suffer isn't very liberal at all! I'm kidding, we're only human.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:16
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KomradeX posted:So our friends over at The Atlantic have another article about Kansas Yeah, actually having to pay for public education can be a real bitch of a budget buster.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:24
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Even DWS has to be smart enough to capitalize on this against anyone who's sending letters of support for a serial child rapist. Right? Kilroy posted:I'm fine with designating Mars the 51st state and running the experiment there. Saves on the eventual wall. But Mars will always be a red state. 
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Apr 23, 2016 21:29
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Hodgepodge posted:Please tell me more about how the failing of the left is not treating the right respectfully enough http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
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Apr 23, 2016 21:39
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awesmoe posted:Ok, you asked for it Opening sentences from that article: quote:There is a smug style in American liberalism. It has been growing these past decades. Author of article is 26 years old. That's a pretty smug loving sentence for a 26 year old. Please tell me more about poo poo you have only read about or tweeted about or watched on video. radical meme fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 21:50
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radical meme posted:Opening sentences from that article: How else are they supposed to learn political history before they were born? It's still a bad article and absolutely smacks of someone who thinks conservative freak outs and calling liberalism a nanny state like it's a bad thing are something new rather than old as dirt.
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Apr 23, 2016 21:55
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Combed Thunderclap posted:How else are they supposed to learn political history before they were born? Yeah, you made my point better than I did. The article is a rehash of conservative talking points.
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Apr 23, 2016 22:04
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I feel like this picture sums it up p well
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Apr 23, 2016 22:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Clinton put out an ad attacking Ted Cruz for "wanting to roll back Marriage equality, hating avocados, and allegedly liking Nickelback." Holy poo poo you're not joking.
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Apr 23, 2016 22:33
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KomradeX posted:So our friends over at The Atlantic have another article about Kansas
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Apr 23, 2016 22:33
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Combed Thunderclap posted:It's still a bad article and absolutely smacks of someone who thinks conservative freak outs and calling liberalism a nanny state like it's a bad thing are something new rather than old as dirt. I'll admit that I absolutely agree with the guy - if you don't care about people you're not going to be interested in solving their problems, and that's not a great way to get votes
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Apr 23, 2016 22:36
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awesmoe posted:If you say the smug style isn't exacerbating this problem, you're still left with the question of why Obviously Correct policies aren't selling to the white working class. Cultural resistance to ideas like LGBTQ individuals and women deserving equal rights and legal protections gets baked in pretty early at bible school. This also ties into resistance to public education funding and the anti-science bent of the American right. hosed if I know how to fix it.
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Apr 23, 2016 22:55
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awesmoe posted:If you say the smug style isn't exacerbating this problem, you're still left with the question of why Obviously Correct policies aren't selling to the white working class. The problem with the smug analysis is that I don't know how you avoid smugness in the face of some of the absolute madness that comes from the right--global warming, evolution, birtherism. Like what's the not smug way to say "Global is real, people who don't think so don't have all the facts." Maybe adopt the stance that they secretly know it is real and argue against their motivations? There really is no equivalent on the left--the closest thing is Loose Change but that's far outside the mainstream.
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Apr 23, 2016 23:19
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The issue is probably, and I realize the irony in saying this, in large part due to how they are presented. I don't think there is a deep rooted opposition to redistribution programs, but I do think the Republicans have created resistance to how you'd describe most New Deal/Great Society style programs, and have also not so subtly implied that they will be to the benefit of blacks, Hispanics, and other out-group members, at the explicit expense of their base members.
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Apr 23, 2016 23:20
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I personally agree that condescension doesn't mean effective communication but it's still a bad article. To borrow from Slate's response: - working-class whites spontaneously bolted at the same time the Dems started appealing to minorities (no connection I'm sure) - the Daily Show/Twitterati are minute fractions of the liberal base - that liberal base is mostly composed of non-whites whose support is integral to the success of Dem policies, NOT imagined Smug Elite Whites And to quote verbatim: quote:This is blinkered. And the result is an essay that doesn’t criticize “liberalism” so much as it positions Rensin against other members of his cultural cohort. It’s what you might write if you’ve mistaken the consumption habits and shibboleths of your tribe for a politics that drives one of two major political parties in a democracy of over 300 million people, if you’re convinced of your own centrality to the currents in American history. I can think of a word for that. In essence: his research and evidence are anecdotal at best and are ultimately poo poo.
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Apr 23, 2016 23:29
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