Grondoth posted:Yeah making all the cops surrender is so great. Convince everyone on your team to ace Cable Guy, Joker, and Partners in Crime. 8 Jokers at once  I was doing a gimmick with Crook and aced Hostage Taker, and it actually worked out pretty well. I had two Jokers backing me up most of the time, and adding Muscle-like health regen onto Crook's already-good bonuses was pretty sweet.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:42
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UnknownMercenary posted:1 to 2 shots to kill most common deathwish cops. 2 to 4 ammo return per box. Apparently the O/U and Mosconi get ~0.8 per box, which is bad. It should be clamped to a minimum of 1 round per box. I don't mind a reduction in ammo pickup because it's silly that nobody had to take ammo bags for DW heists but 40% is probably too hard for the average payday player. Not everyone is incapable of missing like you and isndl :p but in general? whoever claimed Overkill had a good idea of what they were doing with this rebalance was clearly a liar. It's a trash fire of weird poo poo.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:43
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widespread posted:Question on Sentries: Do they still have limited ammo? If so, does the AP Mode sort of slow the ammo consumption down? I'm not too sure, cause they seem fuckin' awesome now. They run out of ammo, but I THINK you can pick them up and put them back down when they're out cause they use up your ammo. AP totally does reduce ammo consumption, it shoots much slower.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:43
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Fun beta...bug? feature? It's not letting me select more than one top-level skill even though I've got them points.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:47
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One thing that isn't actually a problem but annoys me is that the +5 rounds counts on revolvers; I'd rather it have you reload revolvers faster and give you the bonus rounds in weapons with magazines instead.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:55
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Psion posted:but in general? whoever claimed Overkill had a good idea of what they were doing with this rebalance was clearly a liar. It's a trash fire of weird poo poo. Yeah, I'm not a fan of this rebalance whatsoever. The old system wasn't perfect, but while some individual skills may have improved the overall system is just a mess.
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Apr 29, 2016 19:58
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As a console player this hold RB to interact thing in the update has me cautiously optimistic. RB is the interact button on xbox1. I wonder if the skill tree perhaps was originally designed for console?
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Apr 29, 2016 19:59
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Psion posted:but in general? whoever claimed Overkill had a good idea of what they were doing with this rebalance was clearly a liar. It's a trash fire of weird poo poo. It's mostly fun, IMO. The trees are much easier to navigate, and there are a number of reasonably interesting skills. The number of utter-poo poo skills is also decreased, and they're generally less necessary. I won't claim that it's balanced, because it's not. But it wasn't balanced before, either, and it's no worse now. If the ammo nerf to shotguns gets reverted and the bugs get sorted out (allegedly Grinder is bugged in some capacity), I won't have a lot to complain about. Grondoth posted:I'm not too sure, cause they seem fuckin' awesome now. They run out of ammo, but I THINK you can pick them up and put them back down when they're out cause they use up your ammo. AP totally does reduce ammo consumption, it shoots much slower. Yes, ammo is limited. You pick them up and put them down, and then they're full again. They're definitely ammo-hungry, but that's no great surprise.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:11
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swims posted:As a console player this hold RB to interact thing in the update has me cautiously optimistic. The new menu system in general was designed more for console I believe, couldn't say for the skill tree though.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:11
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i am fine with poo poo being unbalanced because knocking over dozers is hilarious
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Apr 29, 2016 20:19
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Oh, and suits need their 5% dodge back. That was unnecessary. Grinder should be toned down, but not this much. Suits on their own are fine, though.
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Apr 29, 2016 20:25
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Psion posted:Apparently the O/U and Mosconi get ~0.8 per box, which is bad. It should be clamped to a minimum of 1 round per box. I assume their plan is to make ammo management a thing again since way back when, you couldn't actually run out all the time like an invincible headless chicken and scoop up all the ammo boxes on Deathwish, so they're going about it by nerfing the pickup rates across the board. It doesn't make sense to do it across the board though since the "best" guns still aren't affected all that much by it, and large numbers of other guns got the short end of the stick. Of course, health management is still a joke unless they plan to both nerf the amount of health a self-reviving FAK gives you and cut that number drastically because 14 full health auto-revives per person is pretty loving ridiculous. LuciferMorningstar posted:Oh, and suits need their 5% dodge back. That was unnecessary. Grinder should be toned down, but not this much. Suits on their own are fine, though. The more reasonable nerf would have been to slow down the regen rate further and extend it over a longer period of time. I can see why they disabled it for fire weapons, since it was insanely easy to keep stacks up, but the stacking itself wasn't that bad. edit: There's a fun bug with swan song right now where you can use it with the RPG. UnknownMercenary fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 20:36
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KillerQueen posted:Fun beta...bug? feature? It's not letting me select more than one top-level skill even though I've got them points. I'm not sure if it's the same bug or not but the game clearly doesn't read the correct number of points. For some reason it doesn't seem like it'll let you make a move that would take you to zero points - so like, if you have 4 and a skill would take 3, you're good, if it would take 4, no dice. EDIT: Is Muscle bad now? Did all our fears come to pass? I'm just curious, I don't really run Muscle. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 20:49
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I wouldn't mind ammo management being mixed up a little. I used to mod all my rifles to single-shot for ~maximum efficiency~ but lately I've been playing with automatic rifles and... I'm still not running out of ammo? I'm pretty lovely at the game so I assume it's not me having gotten gud.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:02
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LMGs 4 lyfe
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Apr 29, 2016 21:03
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Mendrian posted:EDIT: Is Muscle bad now? Did all our fears come to pass? I'm just curious, I don't really run Muscle. No. The health regen rate caps out at 3% instead of 3.5%, but naturally the Steam forums have exploded in anger.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:10
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So in theory nothing stops a crew of 4 from bringing something like 20 sentries, 1 half-bass ammo bag each, and a total of 8 jokers?
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Apr 29, 2016 21:46
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So heads up: that first aid kit revive skill keeps your down from actually being counted as a down both for purposes of going into custody and the stat screen. May be something to keep in mind if it works for achievements like Reputation.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:47
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Mendrian posted:So in theory nothing stops a crew of 4 from bringing something like 20 sentries, 1 half-bass ammo bag each, and a total of 8 jokers? It would be hard to take cops hostages with sentries up since the sentries will probably kill the cops before you can yell at them to get the cuffs on. Jokered cops tend to do that too.
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Apr 29, 2016 21:51
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Grondoth posted:I'm not too sure, cause they seem fuckin' awesome now. They run out of ammo, but I THINK you can pick them up and put them back down when they're out cause they use up your ammo. AP totally does reduce ammo consumption, it shoots much slower. Ah. Good thing I can take one ammo bag with my sentries. And maybe Gambler or some other perk deck that gives me more ammo. Or take GLs all day errday because I'm only gonna use like one to two grenades per sentry. EDIT: Build picture!  I think I should remove Bullet Storm and ace Ammo Specialist. Also where should my last six points go. widespread fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Apr 29, 2016 |
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Apr 29, 2016 21:57
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Psion posted:but in general? whoever claimed Overkill had a good idea of what they were doing with this rebalance was clearly a liar. It's a trash fire of weird poo poo. Actually the update is very good.
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Apr 29, 2016 23:53
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Mendrian posted:So in theory nothing stops a crew of 4 from bringing something like 20 sentries, 1 half-bass ammo bag each, and a total of 8 jokers? I didn't realize you could have two jokers now. Time to revive my "just have my minions do all the work" Joker/Sentry build.
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Apr 30, 2016 00:09
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John Murdoch posted:I didn't realize you could have two jokers now. Time to revive my "just have my minions do all the work" Joker/Sentry build. A team of 8 jokers and 24 sentries.
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Apr 30, 2016 00:22
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UnknownMercenary posted:A team of 8 jokers and 24 sentries. On Shadow Raid.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:00
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Plan Z posted:Actually the update is very good. I'm not saying it's totally valueless, but I stand by trash fire. It ham-hand nerfs popular/effective builds and still doesn't solve other underlying problems (the rebalance's hateboner for shotguns, the points required for shotguns vs any other weapon type) and it is of course buggy and unfinished. Beta, sure, and a real beta at that, but with the steam pubbies feeding Overkill balance feedback? It's not getting better in future updates, we all know that, right? Moving a bunch of QOL into the basics was a great move; I applaud that. A lot of the rest though? Ehhh...no.
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Apr 30, 2016 02:42
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Jules seems pretty deadset on improving the base damage of shotguns so hopefully that is one change that sticks. The removal of reduced ammo pickups from custom shotgun ammo is nice too.
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Apr 30, 2016 03:07
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Delacroix posted:Jules seems pretty deadset on improving the base damage of shotguns so hopefully that is one change that sticks. The removal of reduced ammo pickups from custom shotgun ammo is nice too. this is a straight shotgun buff already since 00 buck is always a better choice to take than regular shotgun ammo
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Apr 30, 2016 03:09
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Sperglord Firecock posted:this is a straight shotgun buff already since 00 buck is always a better choice to take than regular shotgun ammo 00 is regular ammo also obviously HE is good, flechettes are really good in a surprising number of cases, but I'd like to see slugs have a purpose too at some point
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Apr 30, 2016 03:28
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Psion posted:00 is regular ammo They do. And that purpose is to reduce how much ammo I spend on deploying sentries into AP mode. 
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Apr 30, 2016 03:39
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The new system is currently a mess, but it's a good kind of mess. It needs a whole lot of tweaking but the new system works a lot better with the game than the old one did. Also this beta has made the MP5s definitely better than the Krinkovs in my opinion.
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Apr 30, 2016 03:51
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Psion posted:Apparently the O/U and Mosconi get ~0.8 per box, which is bad. It should be clamped to a minimum of 1 round per box. I assume it's the first because I assume you know what the hell you're talking about for the most part but you never know
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Apr 30, 2016 04:11
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Insert name here posted:Is that average or absolute? Because if it's an absolute value of ~0.8 then they are getting 1 round since it rounds It's a range. The lower bound is ~0.7x, I think. Upper bound is greater than 1, but less than 2. But it's not always one pickup per box.
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Apr 30, 2016 04:18
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Insert name here posted:Is that average or absolute? Because if it's an absolute value of ~0.8 then they are getting 1 round since it rounds it's what someone playing with me told me  but if they aren't getting a minimum one per box every box, which they said wasn't happening, it's garbage.
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Apr 30, 2016 04:18
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The double barrels average on more than one kill per bullet though from my experience.
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Apr 30, 2016 04:21
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Psion posted:I'm not saying it's totally valueless, but I stand by trash fire. It ham-hand nerfs popular/effective builds and still doesn't solve other underlying problems (the rebalance's hateboner for shotguns, the points required for shotguns vs any other weapon type) and it is of course buggy and unfinished. Beta, sure, and a real beta at that, but with the steam pubbies feeding Overkill balance feedback? It's not getting better in future updates, we all know that, right? A complete skill revamp is going to change viability of old builds. I'm just glad to have something new and interesting in what would normally be a dead co-op game. I still don't see how what you're saying adds up to "dumpster fire" when I've been playing with people genuinely enjoying having new choices and opportunities. As for the shotguns, just go in there and tell Overkill what's up. They do tend to listen to reasonable feedback for this kind of stuff.
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Apr 30, 2016 04:28
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Plan Z posted:A complete skill revamp is going to change viability of old builds. I'm just glad to have something new and interesting in what would normally be a dead co-op game. I still don't see how what you're saying adds up to "dumpster fire" when I've been playing with people genuinely enjoying having new choices and opportunities. You need to learn to play with people outside your clique.
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Apr 30, 2016 04:29
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Psion posted:it's what someone playing with me told me
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Apr 30, 2016 04:57
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Plan Z posted:A complete skill revamp is going to change viability of old builds. I'm just glad to have something new and interesting in what would normally be a dead co-op game. I still don't see how what you're saying adds up to "dumpster fire" when I've been playing with people genuinely enjoying having new choices and opportunities. As for the shotguns, just go in there and tell Overkill what's up. They do tend to listen to reasonable feedback for this kind of stuff. Yeah. I was just playing, and decided to run with Crook. At one point, I noticed my health was regenerating, and someone said they were running Gambler. Maybe we weren't as durable as a team full of Muscle and Grinder used to be, but if this is what it takes to get people to branch out on the regular (for things beyond silly gimmicks), then so be it. I've got builds I want to try out with a bunch of perk decks I had previously relegated to "Overkill gimmicks only," and now they're probably going to see serious use on DW.
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Apr 30, 2016 05:06
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Blah. Someone help me put together a decent dodge build that includes inspire. Unless dodge really is just totally broken/nonviable.
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Apr 30, 2016 05:20
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Shooting Blanks posted:Blah. Someone help me put together a decent dodge build that includes inspire. Unless dodge really is just totally broken/nonviable. It's not. There are more flavors, though, so you'll have to mix-and-match. Suits are in bad shape and that dodge nerf needs to be reverted. Given that, you're looking at LBV setups. So the default is this: Out of Mastermind: Medic, you basically ace one thing out of each tier. That gives you either FAKs or Medic Bags, plus Inspire. Switch on the fly based on what works for your group. Out of Enforcer: Armorer, you need to ace Oppressor, Die Hard, and Bullseye. Take basic Transporter and Iron Man. That gives your LBV a bunch of extra armor, and lets you regen armor off of headshots. Out of Ghost: Commando, you ace everything in the lower half, and take basic Dire Need and Sneaky Bastard. That's the foundation. 41 points remaining in the status quo. With that, you can basically do whatever. Ex-Presidents and Crook are good choices. Grinder is sort of functional. If you are deeply pained by lack of health regen, run up the middle Mastermind tree and ace Hostage Taker. Might as well be able to dominate two cops as well, if you're going that route, and they might as well be buff. If you want more room to take less-concealed guns, ace Sneaky Bastard. If you want crits, go up Silent Killer. Or whatever else you want.
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Apr 30, 2016 05:32
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