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It was a labor of love.
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May 1, 2016 17:42
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Timby posted:Faraci also said that Snyder was secretly being fired from Justice League, and then like a day later it got out that the movie had already started shooting. I also recall him saying that the Cumberbatch rumors were a total smokescreen and that Joaquin Phoenix had been signed for ages to do Doctor Strange, that Doctor Strange wasn't going to be an origin story, and that Khan wasn't in Star Trek Into Darkness. I don't know where that Snyder thing supposedly come from, since its nowhere at all on the site. Same with the Doctor Strange stuff which breaks down that Phoenix was supposed to come out on stage (Like Ruffalo did) as Marvel's choice for Strange but he balked at the multi-picture deal (which is something that even he confirmed). There's no mention anywhere for Cumberbatch as a smokescreen. As for the Star Trek thing that is completely wrong, since way back when the movie was still shooting he wrote this: quote:My two thoughts:
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May 1, 2016 17:51
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I don't follow. She wrestles the gun up to her face and just kind of lets comic book history take its course. She could've just as easily tucked his arm under hers and then broke it. The slow mo showing her loving that up does the sequence no favors. void_serfer fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 17:54
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So you're like, disappointed in Martha Wayne's judo skills? I did kind of laugh at the fact that both Waynes just like aggressively started CQCing this mugger with a gun instead of like, handing over their stupid wallets or whatever But again, a dream
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May 1, 2016 18:00
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woops (double pissjar post)
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May 1, 2016 18:00
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Joe Gillian posted:She wrestles the gun up to her face and just kinds of lets comic book history take its course. She could've just as easily tucked his arm under hers and then broke it. The slow mo showing her loving that up does the sequence no favors. Then that's what Batman thinks, too. His mom was a pussy for not wrestling the gun away or thinking two moves ahead. Her problem was that she didn't train enough. Don't forget, we see him take a point blank gunshot to the head in this. All it does is make him madder, because he's trained his entire life for moments like that. No punk with a gun is ever gonna catch him slipping.
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May 1, 2016 18:01
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Pretty much. The thought of Martha Wayne being a half-assed martial artist is worthy of a chuckle.
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May 1, 2016 18:05
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You're right though. The half-imagined moment in time that he agonizes over can't just be unfortunate and tragic. Everything is a wrong to be righted. There should be no criminals and no guns, no reason to ever let your guard down (Bruce pretends to be a Thomas Wayne type when really, he's always Batman) no reason to pretend to be Zorro when you can simply be Zorro. This is how Batman is ambiguously a hero, but also, a loving maniac.
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May 1, 2016 18:12
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Slugworth posted:I legitimately believe the world is pretty great, so maybe that's why MoS failed to grab me (haven't seen BvS yet). It's a bummer you think the world is dour and oppressive
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May 1, 2016 18:18
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achillesforever6 posted:You are lucky to read the Climate Change thread in DnD, I did and have now become fully pessimistic of the survival of our species and the world Oh don't get me wrong, I have concerns, I'm not just an idiot child running carelessly through life, but I just can't bring myself to view the world as dour and oppressive.
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May 1, 2016 18:23
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TheFallenEvincar posted:So you're like, disappointed in Martha Wayne's judo skills? Honestly, I kind of like the idea that it's a family trait that if you come at a Wayne they're coming at you. Especially considering the Wayne family is so tied up in the very creation of Gotham city, the fact that they're aggressive sort of makes sense. Kind of more sense than the usual depiction of them being somewhat passive and the mugging just goes bad. Then again I also really like the idea from Earth One that Martha is an Arkham.
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May 1, 2016 19:00
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Gyges posted:Kind of more sense than the usual depiction of them being somewhat passive and the mugging just goes bad. This is what I'm talking about. How does that make more or less sense?
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May 1, 2016 19:04
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:This is what I'm talking about. How does that make more or less sense? At least in my mind, seeing his parents try and stop the mugging but failing fits into the Batman "psychosis". It drives his need to be ready for anything and to master as many fields as possible. Thomas and Martha failed not through inaction or bad luck, they failed because they were unprepared and ineffectual in their actions. That's why Batman is the best martial artist and detective, he's always going to see trouble coming and be ready to punch it in its face. You could get to a similar result via him rejecting their inaction that night. However Batman wholeheartedly embraces the stated Wayne trait of trying to fix Gotham, which to me falls more in line with embracing the last actions of his parents, at least as he sees them since it's always a flashback from his perspective, than rejecting those actions.
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May 1, 2016 19:20
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There's another line that indicates this, when he's in the mansion talking to Alfred. Alfred reminds him that the Waynes built their fortune like so many other American aristocratic families did: trading, mineral rights, etc. With some luck and initiative, they capitalized on it. Bruce is from a later generation, and is specifically characterized as someone who doesn't believe in chance. That story isn't good enough for him, to say they were pelt traders doesn't fit his mythology. He insists the Waynes were hunters. It's a glamorous distinction. There's nothing special about the Waynes. Martha wasn't trying to deftly disarm the ruffian through god-given instincts through her superior breeding or whatever. She simply reacted. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and Bruce will never accept that. He sees the problem - the criminal element - and like any hardliner, he has contrived a very elaborate fantasy to solve the problem his way.
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May 1, 2016 19:29
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:There's another line that indicates this, when he's in the mansion talking to Alfred. Alfred reminds him that the Waynes built their fortune like so many other American aristocratic families did: trading, mineral rights, etc. With some luck and initiative, they capitalized on it. Bruce is from a later generation, and is specifically characterized as someone who doesn't believe in chance. That story isn't good enough for him, to say they were pelt traders doesn't fit his mythology. He insists the Waynes were hunters. It's a glamorous distinction. I don't think Martha was trying to disarm the ruffian while Thomas was trying to set up a flying back fist followed by an arm bar. I do like the idea that their fight or flight response goes with fight, even though they are not in a position for that to be a good idea. They act, which Bruce then reinterprets through his perspective and beliefs. In fact with a history so tied to Gotham, corruption of the truth and lying fit in perfectly.
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May 1, 2016 19:37
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That the Waynes respond by fighting back works well because it results in how, during Bruce's most formative moment, the last lesson his parents teach him is that the proper response to violence is violence.
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May 1, 2016 19:52
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Better to die like cattle, after all.
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May 1, 2016 19:55
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TFRazorsaw posted:Better to die like cattle, after all. There is not a single reputable self defense instructor on the planet who will tell you that the appropriate response to someone pointing a gun at you and demanding your money is to start swinging. Furthermore, literally all of Batman's problems in the film are caused by his single-minded belief that he must respond with violence, no matter how many cooler heads tell him otherwise.
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May 1, 2016 20:00
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TFRazorsaw posted:Better to die like cattle, after all. Your life is not worth your jewelry.
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May 1, 2016 20:04
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TFRazorsaw posted:Better to die like cattle, after all. You really do not think through some of the things you post.
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May 1, 2016 20:06
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The multitude of Batman stories has the Wayne's die regardless of whether they defend themselves or not, and there's just as many where Joe Chill attacks them in spite of cooperation as there are where he gets spooked and has an "accident". The point is that blaming murder victims for their own death is dumb.
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May 1, 2016 20:08
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Burkion posted:You really do not think through some of the things you post. Gotta go fast.
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May 1, 2016 20:08
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TFRazorsaw posted:The point is that blaming murder victims for their own death is dumb. That's not what anyone is saying, please reread the posts or something
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May 1, 2016 20:09
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TFRazorsaw posted:The multitude of Batman stories has the Wayne's die regardless of whether they defend themselves or not, and there's just as many where Joe Chill attacks them in spite of cooperation as there are where he gets spooked and has an "accident". Who or what are you responding to?
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May 1, 2016 20:09
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Miscommunication drives me insane and it is the rule & law of these nerd threads.
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May 1, 2016 20:10
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mr. stefan posted:Furthermore, literally all of Batman's problems in the film are caused by his single-minded belief that he must respond with violence, no matter how many cooler heads tell him otherwise. On the other hand, everyone would have been hosed if Batman's continuous 18 month murder-rage hadn't pushed him to create that kryptonite spear which they used to kill Doomsday. Violence ended up saving the day after all! Which just fuels my theory that Luthor planned everything to work out exactly as it did. 
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May 1, 2016 20:12
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:On the other hand, everyone would have been hosed if Batman's continuous 18 month murder-rage hadn't pushed him to create that kryptonite spear which they used to kill Doomsday. Violence ended up saving the day after all! Batman's redemptive quality is that he plans for contingency.
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May 1, 2016 20:17
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Batman's redemptive quality is that he plans for contingency. He's like a 45 year old murderous, spandex-clad boyscout.
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May 1, 2016 20:18
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There is nothing about how BvS that presents the Waynes' death as something where passivity could have saved them. The entanglement of the gun with the pearls sends a clear message that the robber is willing to take what he wants and take their lives at the same time. Resistance is the option for survival available at that point.
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May 1, 2016 20:18
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TFRazorsaw posted:Resistance is the option for survival available at that point. They're Batman's parents, absolutely nothing could have saved them otherwise the rest of the movie wouldn't have happened. The entire point of their fictional existence is that they get shot in that alley.
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May 1, 2016 20:20
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So Fantastic Four just popped up on Netflix and I gave it a watch. After everything I'd heard, I had some pretty low expectations, and it still managed to disappoint. It really is just a mess of a movie. And not just the obviously tacked-on climax, either, although that did propel it to new heights of mediocrity. It all just fails to gel, and there were some astoundingly ugly scenes in there. Reed fighting the soldiers in the forest and then being confronted by Ben stood out in particular.
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May 1, 2016 20:20
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:They're Batman's parents, absolutely nothing could have saved them otherwise the rest of the movie wouldn't have happened. The entire point of their fictional existence is that they get shot in that alley. I know that. But people are acting like even TRYING to save their own lives is an act that screwed Bruce up for decades, and that perhaps they should have died with quiet dignity rather than show their son any act of violence even in their own defense, and that its in fact THEIR fault that Bruce is a murderous vigilante. Never push back, even when the killer has shown he's going to kill you anyway - a point he made by sticking his gun under Martha's necklace and into her face.
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May 1, 2016 20:24
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How long has Batman been Batman? The main thing that makes me wonder is that there's some line about him and Alfred fighting crime for the past 20 years.
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May 1, 2016 20:25
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:He's like a 45 year old murderous, spandex-clad boyscout. Excuse yourself. Eagle Scout. What with all those "junior partners" he takes on. TFRazorsaw posted:I know that. But people are acting like even TRYING to save their own lives is an act that screwed Bruce up for decades, and that perhaps they should have died with quiet dignity rather than show their son any act of violence even in their own defense, and that its in fact THEIR fault that Bruce is a murderous vigilante. Never push back, even when the killer has shown he's going to kill you anyway - a point he made by sticking his gun under Martha's necklace and into her face. Who is acting like that?
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May 1, 2016 20:27
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:How long has Batman been Batman? The main thing that makes me wonder is that there's some line about him and Alfred fighting crime for the past 20 years. In this universe his parents were killed in 1981, so I guess he spent 15 years training and then the next 20 fighting crime or something like that.
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May 1, 2016 20:29
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TFRazorsaw posted:There is nothing about how BvS that presents the Waynes' death as something where passivity could have saved them. The entanglement of the gun with the pearls sends a clear message that the robber is willing to take what he wants and take their lives at the same time. Resistance is the option for survival available at that point. Did you see him scurrying away with a panicked look on his face? I'm not even sure he actually took any of their possessions with him. This wasn't a cold-blooded killer version of Joe Chill, this was a robber who wasn't expecting resistance.
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May 1, 2016 20:31
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TFRazorsaw posted:I know that. But people are acting like even TRYING to save their own lives is an act that screwed Bruce up for decades, and that perhaps they should have died with quiet dignity rather than show their son any act of violence even in their own defense, and that its in fact THEIR fault that Bruce is a murderous vigilante. Never push back, even when the killer has shown he's going to kill you anyway - a point he made by sticking his gun under Martha's necklace and into her face. The act that screwed Bruce up was watching his parents die. Their actions were irrelevant, an 8 year old boy watched his parents gunned down in an alley while he was left untouched and the murderer fled. Though I guess it's true that if they had any sense at all they would have used their vast wealth and ownership of a technological industry that would rival Stark's to be prepared for such a situation. Made it so when those pearls break disorienting ninja smoke gas is released and they quickly disappear. I mean, it's all so clear if you just think like a paranoid rich guy who watched his parents get gunned down when he was a child.
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May 1, 2016 20:35
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Excuse yourself. Eagle Scout. What with all those "junior partners" he takes on. the person who said this: quote:That the Waynes respond by fighting back works well because it results in how, during Bruce's most formative moment, the last lesson his parents teach him is that the proper response to violence is violence. Mierenneuker posted:Did you see him scurrying away with a panicked look on his face? I'm not even sure he actually took any of their possessions with him. This wasn't a cold-blooded killer version of Joe Chill, this was a robber who wasn't expecting resistance. I imagine he didn't take any of their possessions because they now littered the ground and the heat was already on.
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May 1, 2016 20:39
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TFRazorsaw posted:the person who said this: That's a pretty serious misreading of what he said. He's not talking about what his parents "should have" done, that's the whole point. In a heated moment like that, things happen very quick. We aren't witnessing what happened. We are witnessing Bruce's slow-mo IMAX fantasy of his formative moment. Think about how you spent hours in middle school coming up with the perfect thing to say to some jerkoff in the playground before you take him off his feet with a punch to the throat or whatever. It doesn't matter that that it would never happen, because that's not what a fantasy is about. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 1, 2016 |
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May 1, 2016 20:40
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Batman's whole thing is that he is Oedipus who never completed his complex.
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May 1, 2016 20:45
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