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TFRazorsaw posted:Can you point out to me where the dead extra people are in MoS? My memory isn't exactly the best, so I need some direction if I'm gonna be able to respond to that.
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May 3, 2016 03:56
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I don't have the best of memory and I don't want to debate around half formed recollections. I'm asking for information here.
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May 3, 2016 03:57
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TFRazorsaw posted:Just like the majority of movies of this type, outside of Michael Bay and his destruction porn. I just. I literally never thought about this thread argued about it. I assumed people died. Countless action movies have shown civilians getting hurt. Snowman_McK's point is not " the civilian death the Avengers movies need to be more gory and bloody!", it's "the Avengers movies rarely show a civilian getting anything more than a slight bruise, which visually clashes with the massive disaster happening around them."
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May 3, 2016 03:59
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Equeen posted:Countless action movies have shown civilians getting hurt. Snowman_McK's point is not " the civilian death the Avengers movies need to be more gory and bloody!", it's "the Avengers movies rarely show a civilian getting anything more than a slight bruise, which visually clashes with the massive disaster happening around them." And... I don't think that necessarily clashes with the idea that there are other people, elsewhere getting hurt worse? I mean, even Michael Bay's TF movies have Starscream or Lockdown's underlings doing a strafing run that people come just short of being hit by. The Chitauri stuff that he's hung up on was the same exact thing.
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May 3, 2016 04:03
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TFRazorsaw posted:Can you point out to me where the dead extra people are in MoS? My memory isn't exactly the best, so I need some direction if I'm gonna be able to respond to that. There's a couple of shots where hundreds of people are lifted into the air and then slammed back into the earth. They're screaming as they go up, then they fall silent. There's another, ground level shot, where the gravity engine is pulping things. Cars are pancaked, and people are running alongside them. The people violently drop out of view. The Avengers equivalent would be every small object in the city being lifted except the people. Or cars being pancaked, but the running people just outpacing the wave. Again, it's not graphic. I'm not asking it to be. But the Avengers jumps through some pretty specific hoops to make it clear no one died. It's kind of endemic to the series, though Avengers is, by far, the worst example. Winter Soldier has a weird scene where some goons spray an overturned bus with a minigun. However, every passenger managed to get off before that happened (but, bizarrely, Cap has not) leaving them just shooting up bus seats. That's not nearly as bad, but they wrote, directed, filmd and edited a scene where someone fires a drat minigun in a crowded street and fails to hit anyone. It's just such a strange combination of things to have. Like, just leave the minigun out of it and it's a way less weird feeling scene. Then again, an occupied cop car is blown apart a couple of minutes later.
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May 3, 2016 04:05
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TFRazorsaw posted:And... I don't think that necessarily clashes with the idea that there are other people, elsewhere getting hurt worse? They specifically show a car to be occupied before they blow it up. By the autobots. I swear, the Transformers are the least subtle satire that almost no one has picked up on yet.
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May 3, 2016 04:06
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Okay. I sort of see what you're saying now. I need to think about this.
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May 3, 2016 04:08
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TFRazorsaw posted:Okay. I sort of see what you're saying now. I need to think about this. Honestly, I know it's weird that I noticed it. The attack scenes felt weird at the movies, so when it came out on home media, I rewatched it carefully (I had a lot of free time) and noticed how very loving weird it is.
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May 3, 2016 04:10
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TFRazorsaw posted:But people DID die. poo poo DOES get destroyed. That's, like, made clear in the trailers of the newest movie. It's part of the basic premise of Daredevil, for crying out loud. Well one of the things getting sanitized is the number of people that would logically die based on what we're shown. We are shown plasma weapons being fired and causing large explosions in bumper to bumper city traffic, we're shown Chitauri scale walls and break into windows of office buildings and shoot those same exploding weapons into offices filled with people, we see one of those flying whale things straight up knock over at least one entire building, we're shown Loki gazing out at the city where explosions and fires seem to be spread out over several miles of city blocks. But in Daredevil the newpaper says "hundreds killed" and then in the Civil War trailer this has been adjusted down further to "78 casualties". For one thing it is inconsistent even in their own canon media and it also seems laughably low.
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May 3, 2016 04:11
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Transformers and MOS VISIBLY show people die. They are PG 13 so they don't DWELL on it, but when the World Engine hits, they make sure to show people die in explosions, or people lift up when the gravity engine hits. They show multiple people fail to survive when buildings topple over. The Disney movies go out of their way to show that people are NOT injured. In every similar scenes, there are no crowd extras around, period. It's scarily empty surroundings to the point in which it makes no sense, and is noticeable. Not only does it take any "bite" out of any scenes due to a lack of stakes (which some people seem to prefer), it makes the sequences noticeably lovely looking because no movement in the background makes the foreground look hugely flat.
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May 3, 2016 04:11
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Darko posted:Transformers and MOS VISIBLY show people die. They are PG 13 so they don't DWELL on it, but when the World Engine hits, they make sure to show people die in explosions, or people lift up when the gravity engine hits. They show multiple people fail to survive when buildings topple over. The Disney movies go out of their way to show that people are NOT injured. In every similar scenes, there are no crowd extras around, period. It's scarily empty surroundings to the point in which it makes no sense, and is noticeable. Remember the Hulk/Hulkbuster fight where the two tumble down a completely straight, empty stretch in an otherwise crowded plaza?
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May 3, 2016 04:13
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quote:But in Daredevil the newpaper says "hundreds killed" and then in the Civil War trailer this has been adjusted down further to "78 casualties". For one thing it is inconsistent even in their own canon media and it also seems laughably low. It's low, yes, and I did feel conflicted about this when I first read about it, but it's apparently meant so all the casualties add up to an easter egg referencing Avengers #274. It's weird and kinda clumsy, but they weren't necessarily doing it to sanitize things.
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May 3, 2016 04:15
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Snowman_McK posted:Remember the Hulk/Hulkbuster fight where the two tumble down a completely straight, empty stretch in an otherwise crowded plaza? No. I honestly forgot that entire movie immediately after seeing it.
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May 3, 2016 04:15
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Snowman_McK posted:Remember the Hulk/Hulkbuster fight where the two tumble down a completely straight, empty stretch in an otherwise crowded plaza? Tony even bought a skyscraper seconds before he and the Hulk destroyed it. Like, even property values are being explicitly saved in teh MU.
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May 3, 2016 04:17
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I think that was more a joke about Tony not wanting to get into legal trouble for destroying someone else's thing.
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May 3, 2016 04:18
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TFRazorsaw posted:It's low, yes, and I did feel conflicted about this when I first read about it, but it's apparently meant so all the casualties add up to an easter egg referencing Avengers #274. It's weird and kinda clumsy, but they weren't necessarily doing it to sanitize things. That's not just low. A traffic pile up could do worse. But they're not going to put sanctions on cars, the true masters of the MCU.
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May 3, 2016 04:19
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TFRazorsaw posted:It's low, yes, and I did feel conflicted about this when I first read about it, but it's apparently meant so all the casualties add up to an easter egg referencing Avengers #274. It's weird and kinda clumsy, but they weren't necessarily doing it to sanitize things. Oh that's kindof cool I guess although I still think even Daredevil's "hundreds" is on the low side.
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May 3, 2016 04:21
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Action movies kind of condition us to imagine tragedies in the triple digits, so.
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May 3, 2016 04:23
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It must be a great source of pride for the Al Qaeda in the Marvel universe that they managed to kill literally many, many times as many New Yorkers as an alien invasion.
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May 3, 2016 04:27
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Even moreso than Godzilla, Spielberg's War Of The Worlds and Battle: Los Angeles are master-classes at portraying large-scale civilian death in PG-13 sci-fi, without either sanitizing it or leering at the atrocity.
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May 3, 2016 04:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Even moreso than Godzilla, Spielberg's War Of The Worlds and Battle: Los Angeles are master-classes at portraying large-scale civilian death in PG-13 sci-fi, without either sanitizing it or leering at the atrocity. Seconding this. The emergence of the Tripod in War of the Worlds is one of the best scenes in Spielberg's very impressive resume.
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May 3, 2016 04:32
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People getting straight up ashed by laser beams in that sequence is prime existential horror.
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May 3, 2016 04:36
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The "dusting" of people in that first WotW attack is about a thousand times more horrifying than them exploding into a bunch of blood squibs could ever be. That the ashen remains of people end up coating Tom Cruise and once the adrenaline wears off when he looks in the mirror back home and realizes it? And it makes the bloodferns later even more effective as up to that point Spielberg avoids using that color, and all at once, Cruise steps out into a world that no longer feels like it belongs to humanity. Which matches with the fact that what they do with the people they're keeping alive is about a million times worse than simply disintegrating them. Those people got off easy.
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May 3, 2016 04:39
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War of the Worlds is something that got hamstrung by how loving terrible Dakota Fanning is, but has a lot to enjoy.
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May 3, 2016 04:40
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I really wish War of the Worlds was better than it was There is so much good in it, but its over powered by all of the Not Good it accumulates
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May 3, 2016 04:44
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Snowman_McK posted:It must be a great source of pride for the Al Qaeda in the Marvel universe that they managed to kill literally many, many times as many New Yorkers as an alien invasion. The driving element behind Civil War should be 9/11 truthers convincing the public that the Avengers let 9/11 happen on purpose.
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May 3, 2016 04:54
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This is all ultimately sidelines of the actual point. Which is that people criticize beavis and MoS for having heroes who "don't save people" as opposed to the MCU, when the fact is that the only thing saving anyone in the marvel films is the invisible hand of the scriptwriter what deftly moves civilians out of the path of death and destruction, while cap and Tony pose in front of cars three scenes away. Avengers exists in a universe where causality is actively twisting itself to sanitize chaos and horror on behalf of its leading cast.
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May 3, 2016 05:02
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Chairman Capone posted:The driving element behind Civil War should be 9/11 truthers convincing the public that the Avengers let 9/11 happen on purpose. Or that it was a staged attack by aliens who had instructions not to successfully shoot any civilians.
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May 3, 2016 05:06
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Burkion posted:I really wish War of the Worlds was better than it was I dunno -- I loved it and I think we're on the same level (lovers of kaiju movies). It's another great movie showing just how loving terrible things can be and doesn't tip toe around it.
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May 3, 2016 05:06
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Vintersorg posted:I dunno -- I loved it and I think we're on the same level (lovers of kaiju movies). It's just the human stuff that drags it down for me. They seemed to hold back a bit too much in regards to the main character's actual family and his big action hero scene in taking down a tripod never sat right with me for whatever reason. It's sort of the flip side of the coin of Godzilla 2014 for me- it has even better weird alien stuff going on, but the human stuff doesn't resonate nearly as much. EDIT: Doesn't help, I guess, that my favorite adaption of the book was the musical version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPYJgjRV0XQ Just holy poo poo yes Burkion fucked around with this message at 05:30 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 05:14
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Let's rate our favourite death porn But seriously, the river of corpses was freaky. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 07:33 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 06:48
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I found the best thread on the Civil War IMDB message board.
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May 3, 2016 07:32
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The MSJ posted:I found the best thread on the Civil War IMDB message board.
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May 3, 2016 07:44
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Sounds nigh-unbearable.
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May 3, 2016 07:47
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Snowman_McK posted:It must be a great source of pride for the Al Qaeda in the Marvel universe that they managed to kill literally many, many times as many New Yorkers as an alien invasion. Well the real world doesn't have superheroes to protect it. It's not unlikely that superheroes would lower the casualties in such an attack.
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May 3, 2016 08:22
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how do y'all feel about the skyscrapers being empty in Fight Club?The MSJ posted:I found the best thread on the Civil War IMDB message board.
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May 3, 2016 08:50
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Elfgames posted:Well the real world doesn't have superheroes to protect it. It's not unlikely that superheroes would lower the casualties in such an attack. You'd think, wouldn't you.  Apparently not enough though. 
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May 3, 2016 09:04
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Hey, The Thing's helpin out there! That's pretty nice of him.
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May 3, 2016 09:06
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The MSJ posted:I found the best thread on the Civil War IMDB message board. To be fair spiderman is there and that's his superpower
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May 3, 2016 09:12
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My Lovely Horse posted:how do y'all feel about the skyscrapers being empty in Fight Club? I feel like comparing a Marvel movie to a satire is the sort of thing that ends up not making the Marvel movie look any better. That's one of the jokes. Tyler's going to bring down the entire credit system and bring the world back to zero, irrevocably loving the economy because he is Jack's unbridled masculine id and cannot truly be with the "constraints" of things like responsibility, but don't worry, he's not going to hurt anyone, Scout's honor. Jack sees the obvious horseshit of his own subconscious lizard-brain plan, that a lot of people are going to get hurt by proxy (having already witnessed it happen with Bob), and that's what puts the two sides of his personality at odds. edit: In fact, this is what happens in BvS - Superman doesn't outright cause deaths by his own hand that we are aware of, but by proxy of him showing up, he causes ripple effects that get people killed, such as the government response to him showing up in the Middle East, and the Capitol bombing. This is what is at the core of Batman's problem with Superman, after all - that by virtue of him existing on our planet, he's gotten thousands killed. What's next, millions? The Cameo fucked around with this message at 09:21 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 09:14
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