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I actually agree it would be good if you got something for killing an invader. A little more encouragement for the host to fight back instead of just trying to flee.
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May 3, 2016 15:14
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Harrow posted:I actually agree it would be good if you got something for killing an invader. A little more encouragement for the host to fight back instead of just trying to flee. You get estus back.
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May 3, 2016 15:16
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Harrow posted:I actually agree it would be good if you got something for killing an invader. A little more encouragement for the host to fight back instead of just trying to flee. Maybe like give you (SL of invader)*100 souls for beating them? Maybe with a diminishing return at higher levels so it's not crazy.
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May 3, 2016 15:16
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An ember would be nice. Get at least as much for winning as the guy who risks nothing.
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May 3, 2016 15:17
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Hommando posted:You get estus back. That kind of just feels like a consolation. You get like 2 charges back, right? There's a good chance that's what you used to fight them off in the first place, if not more.
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May 3, 2016 15:17
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Underwhelmed posted:The best way to blue phantom: If you didn't know, red invaders get two pale tongues if they can kill a blue phantom, and still get to stick around to try to off the host for one more. You are effectively each other's crystal lizard. 
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May 3, 2016 15:18
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Harrow posted:That kind of just feels like a consolation. You get like 2 charges back, right? There's a good chance that's what you used to fight them off in the first place, if not more. I got from Road of Sacrifices to Abyss Watchers with nearly full estus thanks to the watchdogs and red phantoms. They can be pretty helpful! Also they dropped a good amount of souls for me.
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May 3, 2016 15:21
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Underwhelmed posted:The best way to blue phantom: Red dudes get two reward items from killing a defender, independant of killing the host. Also because they don't get embered bonus health they are often much softer targets than the host, as well as having reduced estus. They also tend to play with less regard for personal safety than a host generally will so even if you can't get a clean kill you can shoot for a trade. You'll actually come out ahead reward item wise this way. This is somewhat tempered by the fact that a host will often times not be ready for pvp at all, either with an incomplete or transitory build, or more than 50% spent from progressing through a level. While a counter invader will probably be prepared for a fight. Does the sharpen weapon art for the great machete add the bleed status effect, or is it just bonus damage? I can't find any footage of some one getting hit with a sharpened machete. The people I've hit with one and then tried to question about it after a fight either don't remember or are non responsive. But then the sample size is relatively small. Because it's a slow STR weapon it kills most normal enemies in 2-3 hits, and bosses are either heavily bleed resistant or only let you get in 2 hits before zoning you out with aggressive attacks letting any build up wear off. Then the buff wears off.
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May 3, 2016 15:22
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Lord_Magmar posted:The main reason I think it's all Aldrich is the opening animation makes him look rather large, I'm pretty sure he's coming out of a giant coffin in the Cathedral of the Deep. Plus it's the same black fluid stuff that makes up the tentacle using Gwyndolin's corpse as a puppet. The reason it stays the same is Aldrich is literally a giant slimy monster, and his slime sticks around after he's dead, maybe. Not only does it stick around after he's dead, but it seems to reanimate at least a little bit. All the slimes before Aldrich's chamber look like mini-Aldrichs. I was trying to see where he got in. It seems to be around the giant, who must have been already dead or Aldrich would have eaten him (or maybe just the aroma of the divine was simply too intoxicating and he did not want an appetizer). Unfortunately the slime doesn't seem to trail off down the side of the cathedral or anything, so it's hard to tell if he climbed up or what. It would have been really cool if they had made it so you followed his slime trail through the entire level instead of just those couple of rooms immediately around his dinner table. Bugblatter posted:So over on reddit someone pointed out that the dudes turning into spindly trees in Lothric gradually look more and more like the flying tree butterflies around Lothric Castle. They also have the moonlight butterfly move-set and spells during the dragon armor fight. So that got me thinking. The Lothric butterflies are explicitly called "pilgrim butterflies", and if you look at the pilgrims' shells there are branches coming out of them. They don't come from the tree hollows, unless tree hollows are some sort of transitory stage between pilgrim and butterfly, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. This does not rule out a connection with dragons though. There is a pilgrim on the bridge across from the stray demon that is bronze-colored, and a little ways behind it is an identically-colored dragon. turtlecrunch fucked around with this message at 15:28 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 15:23
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Harrow posted:That kind of just feels like a consolation. You get like 2 charges back, right? There's a good chance that's what you used to fight them off in the first place, if not more. It's not completely risk free for red phantoms. When you kill them they have to run all the way back to where they died in your world in order to recover their souls. I had to make one very unpleasant run through the grand archives to save 1.4m souls.
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May 3, 2016 15:25
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fyi one of those youtubers that spends too many hours making pvp videos mentioned that red phantoms maintain embered health if they invade while embered.
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May 3, 2016 15:25
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That's true. Almost all of the blue phantoms I've ever seen are INSANELY aggressive when they try to fight you. I figure it's because some of them just rarely get summoned and try to make the most of it, but it usually results in them being far too willing to separate from the host or any other phantoms. They tend to be easy to parry for the same reason, since they'll often lunge the moment they're two body lengths away from you.Nasgate posted:fyi one of those youtubers that spends too many hours making pvp videos mentioned that red phantoms maintain embered health if they invade while embered. I just doublechecked and no they don't. You drop to unembered health while invading, and just go back to normal when you return to your world. I tested this by invading the world of someone named Cactus, who had a phantom partner also named Cactus, who were dressed exactly alike with the same weapon and tried their best to mimic each other's actions. 
Cyberventurer fucked around with this message at 15:36 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 15:26
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Yeah it just seems all reward for the red with all risk for the host. If you want invasions fine, but you should get something for winning.
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May 3, 2016 15:31
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you get to not die
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May 3, 2016 15:33
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turtlecrunch posted:Not only does it stick around after he's dead, but it seems to reanimate at least a little bit. All the slimes before Aldrich's chamber look like mini-Aldrichs. The pilgrims wear the shells to keep the branches under control. It's like a chrysalis. When they get to Lothric they remove the shells and the branches begin to overtake them, resulting in the intermediate form of tree dudes hanging around Lothric before they finally become a pretty butterfly.
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May 3, 2016 15:34
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But you don't keep your embered health bonus when you invade. Unless you mean you stay embered if you die when invading.
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May 3, 2016 15:34
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If you red sign duel while embered you keep the hp bonus I'm pretty sure.
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May 3, 2016 15:36
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Jastiger posted:Yeah it just seems all reward for the red with all risk for the host. If you want invasions fine, but you should get something for winning. If you want to ember you are making a tradeoff, more health and phantoms for the chance to be invaded. Killing an invader should yield no reward except that you get to keep your buff and sunbros.
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May 3, 2016 15:37
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It's simple, if you don't want to be invaded, don't ember. Or play offline for super extra carebear mode. Or wait a long time for the game population to die out and then you can play online and embered in peace, or as I call it the Current Vanilla Dark Souls 2 Experience.
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May 3, 2016 15:39
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See I'm usually all aboard the "invasions should favor the host in all things" train, but I'm just so happy to have regular, functioning invasions back in a Souls game that my only answer to that now is don't ember if you don't like invasions. That little bit of health isn't often going to make the difference between life and death if you just learn to regard your unembered health as the default.Spanish Manlove posted:It's simple, if you don't want to be invaded, don't ember. Or play offline for super extra carebear mode. Or wait a long time for the game population to die out and then you can play online and embered in peace, or as I call it the Current Vanilla Dark Souls 2 Experience. I can count the number of times I've been invaded across 100+ hours in DS2 on one hand, vanilla and SotFS (excluding the bell towers). I like to think of it more as the Bloodborne experience, though. There's a game that really didn't want you invading people. Regarding playing offline, I'd actually argue that's the much more challenging experience for a first playthrough at least. Player signs and bloodstains say an awful lot whether you look at them or not. Deified Data fucked around with this message at 15:44 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 15:40
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skasion posted:The pilgrims wear the shells to keep the branches under control. It's like a chrysalis. When they get to Lothric they remove the shells and the branches begin to overtake them, resulting in the intermediate form of tree dudes hanging around Lothric before they finally become a pretty butterfly. Yeah, a chrysalis is what is implied by the whole "butterfly" term. Pilgrims have long necks and faceless heads, butterflies have long necks and faceless heads, tree hollows are just hollows on their fleshy part.
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May 3, 2016 15:42
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What I really like so far is that the summoning/getting summoned/invading stuff seems to work way quicker than it ever did in any previous From game. I barely have to wait at all for any of it. Previous games I'd be waiting several minutes or more for anything to happen, I don't know if that's just a result of more people buying this game or if they genuinely improved the netcode.
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May 3, 2016 15:43
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The risk for invaders is them wasting an hour of their lives invading nothing but hosts with endgame battle buddies who can paste you instantly.
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May 3, 2016 15:44
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RBA Starblade posted:The risk for invaders is them wasting an hour of their lives invading nothing but hosts with endgame battle buddies who can paste you instantly. Absolutely. In the process of maxing out Rosaria I think I encountered maybe 2 hosts who didn't have pre-summoned gank squads ready by the time I found them. And that's great, they deserve that advantage. I think the invader's lack of risk is perfectly balanced by how hard it is to kill a host with summoned allies. I really had to use my knowledge of the environments and enemy placement to my advantage. skasion posted:The pilgrims wear the shells to keep the branches under control. It's like a chrysalis. When they get to Lothric they remove the shells and the branches begin to overtake them, resulting in the intermediate form of tree dudes hanging around Lothric before they finally become a pretty butterfly. I specifically remember that the back-coverings are to prevent dark things from taking root in the first place, though I don't remember what description it was - maybe the cleric stuff. Deified Data fucked around with this message at 15:52 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 15:48
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Yeah, I think things swung a bit too far in the attacker's favour for DS1 invasions, but with the extra phantoms (and unrestricted ability to summon them), health and matchmaking systems, the host doesn't need any further incentive to defend themselves. If they end up in a straight fight and lose the invader deserved it or the host got really sloppy.
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May 3, 2016 15:48
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Deified Data posted:Absolutely. In the process of maxing out Rosaria I think I encountered maybe 2 hosts who didn't have pre-summoned gank squads ready by the time I found them. And that's great, they deserve that advantage. I think the invader's lack of risk is perfectly balanced by how hard it is to kill a host with summoned allies. I really had to use my knowledge of the environments and enemy placement to my advantage. Does the scale-down effect for high level players apply to pvp even? I can't tell. At 1000 hp in undead settlement (thanks dancer) CSS was almost an instant kill, and later on the great club was 90% of my health or so. Honestly I don't think I'd even mind the ganksquads if the game still worked like DS2 and you could be invaded while unembered. I liked being jumped like that, and it sucks missing out on npc stuff because you forgot to pop one. I miss being a butt in the Abyss too.  e: wrong spell lol RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 15:53 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 15:51
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I have never enjoyed PvP in Dark Souls, and really want a complete opt-out option. Not "die after bosses", not "play offline", just a switch so I can ignore the bit of the game I hate.Deified Data posted:Regarding playing offline, I'd actually argue that's the much more challenging experience for a first playthrough at least. Player signs and bloodstains say an awful lot whether you look at them or not.
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May 3, 2016 15:56
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RBA Starblade posted:Does the scale-down effect for high level players apply to pvp even? I can't tell. At 1000 hp in undead settlement (thanks dancer) CSS was almost an instant kill, and later on the great club was 90% of my health or so. From what i understand, you get to keep whatever you had equipped at full effectiveness. Go in with a sword thats had 800 AR? You will paste invaders in a few hits. Go in with a medium-roll havelmonster with a greatshield and estoc? You are a god of war that cant be shieldbroken. All it does is scales down your health and level.
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May 3, 2016 15:57
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just bought the game on PC, and there's been a lot of talks about (really sinisert, game-breaking) hacking these last few days. is this a storm in a teacup-type thing where the outrage far exceeds the actual amount of hacking, or should I be worried and just play offline?
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May 3, 2016 15:58
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BombiTheZombie posted:From what i understand, you get to keep whatever you had equipped at full effectiveness. Go in with a sword thats had 800 AR? You will paste invaders in a few hits. Go in with a medium-roll havelmonster with a greatshield and estoc? You are a god of war that cant be shieldbroken. All it does is scales down your health and level. Oh, welp. I thought it reduced damage and stuff too. That explains a lot!
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May 3, 2016 15:59
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I have never enjoyed PvP in Dark Souls, and really want a complete opt-out option. Not "die after bosses", not "play offline", just a switch so I can ignore the bit of the game I hate. The switch to avoid PVP in this game is to not ember, since the extra little bit of health doesn't make a huge difference. If you want to summon, then you should have the numbers advantage anyway.
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May 3, 2016 16:03
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I have never enjoyed PvP in Dark Souls, and really want a complete opt-out option. Not "die after bosses", not "play offline", just a switch so I can ignore the bit of the game I hate. The problem with that is that offering such an option would be effectively the same as removing invasions entirely. At that point, it would be very, very rare for an invader to find a host who wasn't either just waiting for a duel (in which case it's not an invasion, it's functionally the same as a Red Sign Soapstone duel) or intentionally has co-op partners to gank invaders. That's already almost the case, granted, but offering a full-on "you can play online and never have to be invaded" option would make it pretty much a certainty. Sure, there would be some people--I'd be one--who would leave the invasion switch on and play normally, but I'd wager that would be exceedingly rare. Basically, I'd understand an argument to just remove invasions entirely more than I'd understand keeping invasions but letting people opt out of them and still play online/embered. I'd still disagree strongly (even though I basically never invade), but it'd make more sense.
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May 3, 2016 16:03
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Yeah (re dark souls 2 invasions) unfortunately because you don't have an item that's infinite invasions, you rarely see a random invasion in a non pvp level. I think yes, less than ten times I've been invaded in a non bell or rat area. It's even worse in scholar because you can summon 3 helpers without any drawback (and bosses scale up to two but not three helpers for hp) so it's so easy to stomp the game like that and nobody wants to invade against 4 people and they're highly unlikely to get back up. I try to stay embered all the time in ds3. Appreciate it while it lasts.
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May 3, 2016 16:03
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I'm playing through embered all the time (PS4) and I'm kind of missing DS2's PvP. Invaders seemed to be a lot more frequent in that game (at least once I hit higher levels), and there were more options - the bell keepers and rat king arenas in particular I spent hours and hours in. In this one, I spent some time running as a watchdog, but I seem to have hit a certain level threashold and I can't get summoned for it anymore. Other than that, I rarely get invaded (maybe happened once or twice), and I've been summoned as a blue phantom all of 3 times despite always having it on - which, admittedly, is better than in DS2, where it never worked for me at all. Do I have to hit the ~120 sweet spot to start running into more invaders? Maybe it's because I haven't gotten to the levels where people finally get the uncracked red eye orb? I dunno. I want more PvP mixed in with my solo playthrough. Ineffiable posted:Yeah (re dark souls 2 invasions) unfortunately because you don't have an item that's infinite invasions, you rarely see a random invasion in a non pvp level. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 16:09 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 16:05
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ulvir posted:just bought the game on PC, and there's been a lot of talks about (really sinisert, game-breaking) hacking these last few days. is this a storm in a teacup-type thing where the outrage far exceeds the actual amount of hacking, or should I be worried and just play offline? Last I heard there was someone invading in Irithyll and getting people softbanned, but I play on PS4 (for just this reason).
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May 3, 2016 16:05
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Jastiger posted:I think invading is dumb. I literally died once and then embered at the bonfire and IMMEDIATELY was invaded. I ended up killing him but for what? I gained nothing and he risked nothing, but I risked my ember and my souls. If you kill an invader you should absolutely get either an ember or their souls or something. There should be some kind of reward for winning and there should be a penalty for them losing. Sounds like you have it rough compared to those invaders. They should totally be penalised for invasions, well I mean, on top of.... 25% less health Half Eustus An item specifically designed to turn your enemies against them Damage by enemies even without that item A covenant specifically dedicated to kill them Easily bodyblocked by even 2 other players Matchingmaking that prioritizes them into hosts with phantoms Sometimes have to kill up 4 Phantoms to get to the Host, which there are no rewards for, which can be resummoned indefinately
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May 3, 2016 16:07
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Deified Data posted:I specifically remember that the back-coverings are to prevent dark things from taking root in the first place, though I don't remember what description it was - maybe the cleric stuff. Yeah it's from the cleric gear, which has the adorable babby's first dark-restraining shell bound with ribbons on it. "It is said that the blue-robed travelers were entrusted with a duty. They bore large covers on their backs to ensure that they would not become seedbeds for spreading darkness."
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May 3, 2016 16:09
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Rotten Red Rod posted:I'm playing through embered all the time (PS4) and I'm kind of missing DS2's PvP. Invaders seemed to be a lot more frequent in that game, Buy several dozen lottery tickets, or Darkmoon in DS3  Dried Finger will make people come in to kick your rear end, if you want.
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May 3, 2016 16:09
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Idea: a consumable that invaders can use to seal fog doors for a short period of time (like 30-45 seconds). You can only carry one at a time. So each side gets a consumable that can help. A host can use a Seed of a Giant Tree to turn the enemies against the invader. If the invader sees that the host is sprinting for the fog door, or invades while they're summoning right outside of the boss fog, they can use their consumable to delay the host for a few crucial seconds so it isn't a guaranteed and instant escape. Rotten Red Rod posted:Do I have to hit the ~120 sweet spot to start running into more invaders? Maybe it's because I haven't gotten to the levels where people finally get the uncracked red eye orb? I dunno. I want more PvP mixed in with my solo playthrough. You can get a full Red Eye Orb extremely early in DS3, so that's probably not it. And actually, invasions are less common at the "PvP meta" level--that's more for duels. Invasions are probably most common between levels 60-80, if I had to guess, but maybe that's just because that's when people are in the biggest PvP hotspot (the area in Irithyll right after the first boss). You'll get invaded constantly there if you're embered because there's a popular territorial invasion covenant there and it's also the dueling hotspot. In my experience, I've rarely been invaded while solo and embered anywhere but Irithyll. I think twice total. However, if I ever summon a phantom, I get invaded almost instantly. You can also buy a reusable Dried Finger item from the Shrine Handmaid. Using it is basically a "come invade me!" beacon.
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May 3, 2016 16:09
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BTW I'm hearing a lot of talk about how blue sentinels aren't working properly but in my time invading as a red they were an almost constant presence - at least 1 every couple invasions. I can't speak for how long it takes to get summoned as one but my hosts didn't seem to be having an issue getting them. People just need to invade more so the blues can get more action.
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May 3, 2016 16:10
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