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Nifara posted:I would definitely tend to encourage them for experienced players rather than newbies - new players should be mechanically supported to be influential as possible, while old hands can usually "make do" with less. Thanks for the detailed reply, this is what I wanted to know! On this note: I'm so happy with the Sleeper/Sleepwalker/Proximi appendix. The play advice is handy, and the new Merits are exactly the kinds of things I want to use at the table. "Loved" is just fantastic. I'm already sketching out character ideas and crossing my fingers hard for a chance to use them, at least as NPCs.
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May 5, 2016 01:54
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Ferrinus posted:Speaking again to people extending their life with antibiotics: Antibiotics are well known for being available to maybe 0.01% of the population worldwide, who say they want everyone to have it even as a significant portion of them viciously guard any knowledge of it from the world at large. Edit: Actually, that reminds me: how many mages are there worldwide? I don't think the 2E book mentions any numbers. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 02:14 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 02:12
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Cabbit posted:Edit: Actually, that reminds me: how many mages are there worldwide? I don't think the 2E book mentions any numbers.
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May 5, 2016 02:57
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Yawgmoth posted:Exactly as many as are needed for your game world to be interesting, because every time they mention any demographics at all some spergking shows up and whines about "if that were true then there'd only be 1 cabal in <major metro>!" or "if there's that many then mages should be able to <insane stupid event, usually political>!" depending on the value. Usually both. While this is true, having some kind of expected numbers per city would be useful. As it is, when I first ran a proper Mage game and tried to have all the suggested political structures combined with the number of people in the city I picked, what happened was that most of the Adamantine Arrow were in a single cabal of roughly 8-10 people and they ran a 24-hour gym.
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May 5, 2016 04:16
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My favorite Seers-esque thing is the two Illuminati guys who work in the NYC sewers in The Illuminatus Trilogy, killing alligators. Why? Because if the word got out that there really are giant reptiles in the sewer, it would engender a sense of adventure in the world and encourage people to go hunt the gators and have exciting adventures, and this would not be in line with how the Illuminati wasn't people.
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May 5, 2016 05:53
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bewilderment posted:While this is true, having some kind of expected numbers per city would be useful. As it is, when I first ran a proper Mage game and tried to have all the suggested political structures combined with the number of people in the city I picked, what happened was that most of the Adamantine Arrow were in a single cabal of roughly 8-10 people and they ran a 24-hour gym. I understand the problem, but this is like the single worst example to show it since it owns. The only thing better is if they all worked as bouncers a la Roadhouse. (Sam Elliot is totally a Moros.)
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May 5, 2016 06:11
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Ferrinus posted:Speaking again to people extending their life with antibiotics: You're also using magic, which nobody else gets to do, because you're special and have awesome magic powers. While I can hear your snark all the way up here, there is a qualitative difference between medication and being forced into an eternal cycle of 'cast spell, avoid paradox, hope nobody dispels me'.
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May 5, 2016 06:13
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For Mages it works out that you can kind of spread them out - like, you can totally have suburban mages. Everyone still meets up in the city but you could totally imagine cabals that mostly hang out together in places where it's easier to get to the coast or to secluded woods or to a nice ley line that's not claimed by any other geomancers or whatever. Vampires, on the other hands, vampires gotta be in the city, or inner city suburbs at the very furthest. Because (maybe it's my Australian-ness clouding this) I don't think any vampire would ever even consider being the lone vampire trying to hunt or pick up someone at a suburban/country Nightclub + Pokies (aussie slang for a bar that has slot machines).
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May 5, 2016 06:53
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bewilderment posted:For Mages it works out that you can kind of spread them out - like, you can totally have suburban mages. Everyone still meets up in the city but you could totally imagine cabals that mostly hang out together in places where it's easier to get to the coast or to secluded woods or to a nice ley line that's not claimed by any other geomancers or whatever. I think it's more that being alone and secluded and secret is hard. Vampires by nature need a certain density of human prey to really prosper; one or two can probably survive in a rural area but eventually they'll start bumping heads either over actual food or, more likely, over the credibility-capital of keeping the occasional misplaced human body a secret. Then there's the social stuff to think of. Vampires hate most other vampires but the alternative is soul-crushing lonliness.
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May 5, 2016 07:53
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Also, coming and going and being out all night is a lot easier in dense urban areas where nightlife and third shift jobs are more common.
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May 5, 2016 11:20
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I enjoy how the LA writeup in Mage 2E comes just short of explicitly stating THE SEERS ARE BEHIND SCIENTOLOGY. Something about those wacky dudes just lends itself really well to being fictional antagonists with the serial numbers filed off, apparently.
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May 5, 2016 11:30
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Mendrian posted:You're also using magic, which nobody else gets to do, because you're special and have awesome magic powers. While I can hear your snark all the way up here, there is a qualitative difference between medication and being forced into an eternal cycle of 'cast spell, avoid paradox, hope nobody dispels me'. No, there isn't. Doing something does not become hubristic if few people get to do it. That's privilege, not pride.
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May 5, 2016 12:04
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I wouldn't say life extension via Life is particularly hubristic. It just enables hubris because now you're like 200 years old, super powerful and almost certainly entirely detached from everyone around and younger than you. Basically: no, it's not inherently a problem, but it is often a symptom.
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May 5, 2016 13:04
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I'm willing to concede the argument but this:Mors Rattus posted:I wouldn't say life extension via Life is particularly hubristic. It just enables hubris because now you're like 200 years old, super powerful and almost certainly entirely detached from everyone around and younger than you. Basically: no, it's not inherently a problem, but it is often a symptom. is still true.
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May 5, 2016 14:00
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Hubris is an incoherent concept in Mage unless you're a Seer.
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May 5, 2016 14:07
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Ferrinus posted:Hubris is an incoherent concept in Mage unless you're a Seer. I guess you could probably, in this case at least, replace 'hubris' with 'being an rear end in a top hat.' EDIT: "Mage society frowns on being an rear end in a top hat." "A character who frequently invokes Paradox is guilty of being an rear end in a top hat" Stuff like that.
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May 5, 2016 14:08
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That's basically how the line uses the word, yeah. It's like, performing a human sacrifice in order to get Mana isn't hubris. It's just... evil. It is in fact worse than hubris! gently caress!!
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May 5, 2016 14:12
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Kellsterik posted:I enjoy how the LA writeup in Mage 2E comes just short of explicitly stating THE SEERS ARE BEHIND SCIENTOLOGY. Something about those wacky dudes just lends itself really well to being fictional antagonists with the serial numbers filed off, apparently. Nah, everyone knows it's the Banishers. Well, the thirteen people who read Banishers do, anyway.
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May 5, 2016 18:23
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Hey, DaveB! I spotted some errors and posted about them, but they got kind of buried by discussion. quote:So, minor Mage 2e quibble if any of the writers are around. quote:More Mage 2e errors: the sheet at the end of the book is still using the 1e cheat sheet stuff at the bottom. quote:Bug report #3: Conditional duration only has rules for making a condition that ends a spell, but the Fate text implies it should also be able to have a condition that puts the spell in abeyance until a condition is met. Were I to have to hack something up, I'd suggest reversing the order in which the condition adds levels of Duration, since the condition now becomes not what turns the spell off, but what turns it on. 1 and 3 seem like bigger problems.
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May 5, 2016 18:52
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Mors Rattus posted:Hey, DaveB! I spotted some errors and posted about them, but they got kind of buried by discussion. Go chuck em in the errata-gathering thread on our forums. That's the collection I'll go through in a couple of weeks time to update the book. I had one myself - the book currently doesn't say mages have a virtue and a vice. Which they do. It gives the rules for em, but doesn't tell you to pick them in character creation. Much head-slappage was had last week over that one.
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May 5, 2016 19:06
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Unfortunately, the OP forums are blocked for me at work, so I can't right now. Will in...oh, three hours or so.
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May 5, 2016 19:07
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Glad to hear mages have a Virtue and a Vice rather than a Beard and a Spell Component Pouch or some poo poo.
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May 5, 2016 19:44
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Ferrinus posted:Glad to hear mages have a Virtue and a Vice rather than a Beard and a Spell Component Pouch or some poo poo. I genuinely have no idea why it's become fashionable to change a character type's anchors. At this rate, only mages and demons will have V/V
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May 5, 2016 19:54
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Overall I think you guys did a hell of a job. I do hope that Signs of Sorcery's gonna have more room for Legacies and Proximi dynasties, though.
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May 5, 2016 19:58
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Kellsterik posted:I enjoy how the LA writeup in Mage 2E comes just short of explicitly stating THE SEERS ARE BEHIND SCIENTOLOGY. Something about those wacky dudes just lends itself really well to being fictional antagonists with the serial numbers filed off, apparently. In the (admittedly ridiculous) 3 year long Mage LARP I was in a few years back, when we confronted the Chancellor up in the Supernal, he was using L Ron Hubbard as a body double.
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May 5, 2016 19:58
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Isn't having your own pretentious names for the same thing a classic White Wolf tradition?
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May 5, 2016 19:58
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Dave Brookshaw posted:I genuinely have no idea why it's become fashionable to change a character type's anchors. At this rate, only mages and demons will have V/V
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May 5, 2016 19:58
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Dave Brookshaw posted:I genuinely have no idea why it's become fashionable to change a character type's anchors. At this rate, only mages and demons will have V/V It's understandable given how wonky and uneven the seven cardinal virtue/seven deadly sin framework was in 1e. Fixing bad mechanics is one of the most straightforward and satisfying ways to make your mark on a game. But like... we get to write our own Virtues and Vices now. My group started doing that years ago, and once we did I really appreciated the mechanic as a touchstone for drawings comparisons between the motivations of two characters - even ones whose life and subjectivity are (often literally) worlds apart.
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May 5, 2016 20:00
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Ferrinus posted:Glad to hear mages have a Virtue and a Vice rather than a Beard and a Spell Component Pouch or some poo poo. My virtue is Vancian Spellcasting. My vice: also Vancian Spellcasting.
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May 5, 2016 21:18
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Attorney at Funk posted:It's understandable given how wonky and uneven the seven cardinal virtue/seven deadly sin framework was in 1e. Fixing bad mechanics is one of the most straightforward and satisfying ways to make your mark on a game. But like... we get to write our own Virtues and Vices now. My group started doing that years ago, and once we did I really appreciated the mechanic as a touchstone for drawings comparisons between the motivations of two characters - even ones whose life and subjectivity are (often literally) worlds apart. OPP completely dropped the Seven Deadly Sins/Seven Heavenly Virtues from the Virtue/Vice mechanic with 2e corebook though, so the most common objection to V/V is gone. What Vampire 2e did was replace Virtue/Vice with
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May 5, 2016 21:37
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Cabbit posted:My virtue is Vancian Spellcasting. My vice: also Vancian Spellcasting. "What's your paradigm?" (Drops the 5 inch thick 3.5 spell compendium on the table)
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May 5, 2016 21:39
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How many dots in Fate do I need to use 6d6 as the focus for my fireball spell, and does target get to make a reflex save?
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May 5, 2016 21:44
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We joke but via the Techne merit, D&D can be a yantra.
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May 5, 2016 22:03
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I didn't much care for Mask/Dirge (the whole Requiem/Masquerade thing in Danse Macabre was much better as a concept, even if more tacked on) and generally prefer Virtue/Vice for Vampires, but I like the concept of Blood/Bone for Werewolf. Here's my human self and my spirit self. Should have pushed it as more freeform with one or two examples rather than a list though, IMO, closer to Virtue and Vice in that way.
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May 5, 2016 22:08
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Nah, everyone knows it's the Banishers.
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May 6, 2016 00:57
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Zereth posted:What is a Banisher? I don't think Mors has defined that yet. The short version is that they're Mages that loving hate magic. The longer version is that they're Mages who have a soul-deep revulsion of magic. Instead of a rush of power or enlightenment or whatever, they experience magic as pain and self-loathing, and their constant attunement to the supernatural means they can't just ignore it and not do magic. Why they're the way they are, nobody really knows. Sometimes Awakenings just seem to go wrong, and make a Banisher, while other Mages 'convert' later in life. Somewhat terrifying is the fact that the Banisher condition seems to be contagious, as even just chatting with one too long about their experience is a known factor for turning Banisher.
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May 6, 2016 01:10
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Mages so traumatized by their Awakening that they violently reject everything Supernal. They hunt down and kill other Mages.
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May 6, 2016 01:10
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Zereth posted:What is a Banisher? I don't think Mors has defined that yet. They're the good guys
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May 6, 2016 01:16
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They also have a suicide spell iirc
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May 6, 2016 01:16
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cptn_dr posted:They're the good guys  delenda estXelkelvos posted:They also have a suicide spell iirc More accurately, their book demonstrated that Death 3 is a foolproof way to kill yourself instantly, and can be hung as a contingent spell. And it has a rote for it, somehow, even though that doesn't really seem like the sort of spell you can practice.
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May 6, 2016 01:18
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