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Isn't that called "normal debating" by people who don't huff EY's farts?
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May 9, 2016 14:50
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I guess if you feel that straw man arguments are so common that you need to codify the opposite as its own termed practice it makes sense. But it's nothing new, yeah, most good counter-arguments I have read will have a turn where it shows that some basis for an argument is false and then says, "But let's assume that it's true, this still doesn't help because..."
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May 9, 2016 15:02
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I would've assumed steelmanning was basically constructing a BEEP BOOP RULE THE HUMANOIDS strawman caricature of a LessWronger.
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May 9, 2016 15:02
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Hey so unrelated but I don't really get the title Neoreaction a Basilisk. Is there an implied colon after "Neoreaction" or is the word neoreaction being used as a verb?
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May 9, 2016 15:07
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I read the RationalWiki about Roko's Basilisk and still don't understand what the title means.
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May 9, 2016 15:13
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Tesseraction posted:Isn't that called "normal debating" by people who don't huff EY's farts? It is standard practice yes
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May 9, 2016 15:22
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GunnerJ posted:Hey so unrelated but I don't really get the title Neoreaction a Basilisk. Is there an implied colon after "Neoreaction" or is the word neoreaction being used as a verb? That's how I read it, like it's saying Neoreaction is equivalent to the original concept of a 'basilisk'.
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May 9, 2016 15:56
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Gonna take the boat out this weekend and neoreaction me up the ol' basilisk
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May 9, 2016 16:01
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Halloween Jack posted:I read the RationalWiki about Roko's Basilisk and still don't understand what the title means. Do you understand what Roko's Basilisk is? I say 'understand' but truly we cannot comprehend this terror of time immortal.
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May 9, 2016 16:02
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Tesseraction posted:What does 'steelmanning' mean by the way? Djeser posted:It's supposed to be the opposite of strawmanning, where instead of inventing a lovely version of someone's argument to attack, you invent the best possible version of someone's argument to debate against. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The opposite of a strawman - to try and imagine the "best" and most sound version of your opponents argument to lend credence to your counterargument. GunnerJ posted:The opposite of strawmanning, basically, in that you intentionally construct the most charitably interpreted, logically rigorous, and conformant to facts version of an opponent's argument as the subject of a refutation. Dunno why what seems like the proper way to make a good case needs its own special term but hey. *rushes into thread gasping for breath* Steelmanning is... wheeze... when you argue against... cough... the strongest position possible.
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May 9, 2016 16:07
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As I believe Sandifer said, this is what happens when an online community of armchair philosophers doesn't have a real education in cultural criticism, so they reinvent the wheel with a clumsy TVTropes version of academic terminology.
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May 9, 2016 16:12
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Actually, it's about ethics in debating tactics.
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May 9, 2016 16:13
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GunnerJ posted:Hey so unrelated but I don't really get the title Neoreaction a Basilisk. Is there an implied colon after "Neoreaction" or is the word neoreaction being used as a verb? The colon is implied - It's a reference to William Blake's prophetic books America a Prophecy and Europe a Prophecy.
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May 9, 2016 16:14
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GunnerJ posted:Actually, it's about ethics in debating tactics. Ethics in huffing farts
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May 9, 2016 16:15
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I'm still loving that these chucklefucks spend ages circlejerking about how the loving MARXISTS are lurking in the shadows to protect this 'Cathedral' they hate so much but the second an openly-Marxist person analyses their thoughts they scatter like cockroaches instead of legitimately defend their bad ideas.
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May 9, 2016 16:17
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GunnerJ posted:I have to say that I agree with him that this is actually a good thing on some level. Tone deaf, but the thing that keeps me from 100% writing off the whole LessWrong crew as a bona-fide cult is that they are willing to engage in this kind of self-criticism. They're only 90% of the way there otherwise. That quote is not Scott, but from a post by the non-binary Ozy. I agree that they're usually one of the good ones. (eta: I'd be interested in their reaction to the book, actually) Scott is of course disagreeing, and identifying this behavior as weakness, because he wishes his community to remain pure in the face of its dastardly enemies, blah blah shifting rhetorical focus blah. Doc Hawkins has a new favorite as of 16:25 on May 9, 2016 |
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May 9, 2016 16:22
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Doc Hawkins posted:That quote is not Scott, but from a post by the non-binary Ozy. I agree that they're usually one of the good ones. (eta: I'd be interested in their reaction to the book, actually) I knew it wasn't Scott but I figured that the original author was saying it's an annoying or otherwise negative tendency, to which Scott countered that it's actually usually a good thing that can be easily taken advantage of.
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May 9, 2016 16:32
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Doc Hawkins posted:That quote is not Scott, but from a post by the non-binary Ozy. I agree that they're usually one of the good ones. (eta: I'd be interested in their reaction to the book, actually) I'd agree, but they've been involved in the same shady "desperately run PR for the far-right parts of our ingroup" as Scott including making a long post that boils down to "maybe the truth behind Gamergate is somewhere in the middle".
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May 9, 2016 17:21
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Doc Hawkins posted:That quote is not Scott, but from a post by the non-binary Ozy. I agree that they're usually one of the good ones. (eta: I'd be interested in their reaction to the book, actually) How is it possible for you to be this bad at reading?
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May 9, 2016 18:12
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Patrick Spens posted:How is it possible for you to be this bad at reading? Oh cool, our secondary contrarian is here to pick up Cingulate's slack
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May 9, 2016 20:15
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divabot posted:It's OK! Crisis averted, everyone! Scott has cautioned the rationalists not to talk about the book. Because "do not look at/talk about/acknowledge Neoreaction A Basilisk or bad things will happen" is a line of thought that has worked out spiffingly for rationalism heretofore. Phil sends a love note to the rationalists in general. I'm curious to see if Phil will end up taking over from you as the Satan figure in rationalist mythology.
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May 9, 2016 20:16
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Yeah if Phil's doing something odd, 99% odds are it's a Blake homage. If he's saying something questionable, 99% odds is because he's convinced it's the Blake-iest thing to possibly say.
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May 9, 2016 20:36
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Yeah if Phil's doing something odd, 99% odds are it's a Blake homage. If he's saying something questionable, 99% odds is because he's convinced it's the Blake-iest thing to possibly say.
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May 9, 2016 20:36
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Yeah if Phil's doing something odd, 99% odds are it's a Blake homage. If he's saying something questionable, 99% odds is because he's convinced it's the Blake-iest thing to possibly say.
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May 9, 2016 21:52
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Is Phil sandifer the Wikipedia guy with his own encyclopaedia dramatically article?
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May 9, 2016 22:48
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Dear god, it's still around? How many hosts/countries have they been kicked out of?
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May 9, 2016 22:53
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Enquiring minds want to know E: answer the question progs!
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May 9, 2016 23:03
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OfficialGBSCaliph posted:Is Phil sandifer the Wikipedia guy with his own encyclopaedia dramatically article? Pretty sure you're thinking of divabot himself. divabot, want to comment?
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May 9, 2016 23:04
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Saeku posted:Pretty sure you're thinking of divabot himself. divabot, want to comment? Im not thinking of poo poo, I just googled phil sandifer.
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May 9, 2016 23:05
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Seems it's him. So what? I've got several ED articles/sections and I'm an internet nobody.
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May 9, 2016 23:16
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All it really takes to get on ED is to make at least three people who hang out on 8chan nowadays angry at you.
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May 9, 2016 23:25
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Tesseraction posted:Seems it's him. So what? I've got several ED articles/sections and I'm an internet nobody. Post them
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May 9, 2016 23:36
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The Vosgian Beast posted:All it really takes to get on ED is to make at least three people who hang out on 8chan nowadays angry at you. When I was 14 I made an ED article about a kid I didn't like in school so the internet would know how gay and lame he was and it's still there to this day. Sorry about that guy 
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May 9, 2016 23:41
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:When I was 14 I made an ED article about a kid I didn't like in school so the internet would know how gay and lame he was and it's still there to this day. Sorry about that guy yeah, exactly this turns out pissing nerds off is an easy way to end up on a site that never deletes anything
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May 9, 2016 23:46
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and when they know you IRL they're more likely to provide that info without knowing the consequences
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May 9, 2016 23:46
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:When I was 14 I made an ED article about a kid I didn't like in school so the internet would know how gay and lame he was and it's still there to this day. Sorry about that guy Post it
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May 10, 2016 00:09
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Yeah ok they both have ED articles and are Wikipedia guys I guess? I'm surprised how many ED articles there are about random people. And how incoherent they generally are.
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May 10, 2016 00:26
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Saeku posted:Yeah ok they both have ED articles and are Wikipedia guys I guess?  He's trying to stir up poo poo and isn't very good at it
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May 10, 2016 00:31
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I wouldn't say I'm stirring poo poo so much as ribbing, because divabot's ED page basically just says he's a long-time goth (not something he's embarrassed about) and really into wikipedia (did not know) and I wouldn't've known of it except he or one of his friends brought it up.
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May 10, 2016 00:55
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Saeku posted:I wouldn't say I'm stirring poo poo so much as ribbing, because divabot's ED page basically just says he's a long-time goth (not something he's embarrassed about) and really into wikipedia (did not know) and I wouldn't've known of it except he or one of his friends brought it up. I didn't mean you
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May 10, 2016 01:21
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