|
Also, sometimes, when we say that you need to actually spend time and practice and put forth effort, people don't really "get" just what we are talking about. They either assume too little or too much. All it really takes is fifteen minutes a day practicing your combos (and once you can do the combos 95% of the time, you move to practicing hit confirming into those combos or something safe instead). Building muscle memory requires both repetition and rest.
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 03:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 18:31 |
|
|
NecroMonster posted:Also, sometimes, when we say that you need to actually spend time and practice and put forth effort, people don't really "get" just what we are talking about. They either assume too little or too much. All it really takes is fifteen minutes a day practicing your combos (and once you can do the combos 95% of the time, you move to practicing hit confirming into those combos or something safe instead). Honestly, practicing hitconfirming is probably more important than learning optimal combos anyway. It's also a question of understanding what are the aspects of your play that are lacking. For example, my combo execution sucks and quite often I don't follow up on blocked plus normals as well as I should, so I need to work on those. Also an important aspect when choosing a character if you're a salty bitch like me: choose someone that plays to your strengths and avoids your weaknesses. You probably should go out of your comfort zone every now and then to become a better player overall, but lest I become the Leaning Tower of Pisa, I tend to avoid rushdown and combo-heavy characters.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 03:28
|
|
|
Dracula Factory posted:I really wish capcom was on the ball enough to have online training mode, I think it's a great low-pressure way to learn the game with someone. You should find local people to play against if you can't strongarm your friends. It's nice to be able to repeat a situation over and over to see how to get out of it and things like that. Why not just do it in online ranked play? When you encounter moves/setups/etc that you haven't figured out how to deal with properly, keep trying new things against it until you find something that works consistently. You'll probably lose a lot, but if you set your goal as "ok I just wanna be able to deal with this X bullshit that character Y does" and then by the end of however many matches it takes, you finally figure out how to deal with it, that's your victory. The individual matches are inconsequential. You're leveling yourself up, not the little fake rank number in the game. Repeat this whole process enough times, and you might even get closer to being quasi-competent. More for fighting games in general but: Another thing is that even low-level tournament players usually have put in hundreds/thousands of hours into practicing(if not in SF5, other fighting games). They've at least started to forge themselves in the fire and become brutal killers. Even this spectrum of players is very wide. There's a massive(this can't be overstated enough) gap from the best of the best to the average 0-2-every-tourney bob who can still go like 20-0 against someone who just casually plays the game. Execution is another factor, practice all your poo poo in training mode over and over and over again until you can just do it on command without thinking about it. Once you get execution more or less down(you will likely never get it down completely), you can start the long road of learning how to play the real game. It does get easier, everything you learn in one fighting game mostly transfers to all other fighting games(some transitions might be harder for some, going from 2d->3d for example), but there is always plenty of room to improve.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 03:29
|
|
|
Dias posted:Honestly, practicing hitconfirming is probably more important than learning optimal combos anyway. well yeah, and after you can do at least a basic hitconfirm a solid amount of the time it's better to actually try and do that against humans rather than a training mode dummy. but you gotta start somewhere and work your way up.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 03:30
|
|
|
Goetta posted:The problem is that a large part of the game feels like it doesn't translate from CPU to humans. As for matchmaking, have you tried messaging people and adding them to your friends list? If you run into someone who's at your level and isn't laggy you should send them a message and ask if they want to play a set or something. Ranked is dumb and bad and I wish beginners would stay away from it because playing sets against people on your friends list is way better for learning and staying sane. Also, there are beginners on this very forum you could ask for games.  Instead of wading through the wastelands of Ranked you could ask people in this thread or post your info in the other one (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3765001).
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 03:46
|
|
|
^^ Thanks, I added my name to the thread. Do you guys set up a lot of poo poo on Discord?Dias posted:Don't get too disencouraged, just set yourself small objectives that aren't outright winning and you'll see improvement. As for your doubt, that sort of thing is what you do when you closed the distance between you and an opponent. With Karin, you probably either knocked them down with a sweep, dashed in or landed a jump-in. 1 and 3 are probably what'll happen more often. Karin is a "footsies" character, so you shouldn't focus too much on landing a combo as much as you should on pestering adversaries with your amazing normals (sweep, st.HK, st.MK, even cr.MK). A lot of your damage will come from crush counter st.HK, so look into combos that start off that. St.MP starters are for after you're in their face, and you should be making them block those normals because they put Karin in an advantageous situation where a lot of your normals will come out before a lot of their normals. This is helpful thanks. I've actually been avoiding her sweep and HK because some guide I read said they sucked. I am starting to beat the Bronze Ryu's and Ken's at least reasonably often so things are looking up. I have more problems with other characters still just because I really still am not familiar with how they play beyond very basic stuff like 'get close to Dhalsim' and whatnot GOOD TIMES ON METH fucked around with this message at 04:35 on May 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 04:25
|
|
|
Goetta posted:Hi I didn't mean to start some big lovely argument.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 05:36
|
|
|
NecroMonster posted:Also, sometimes, when we say that you need to actually spend time and practice and put forth effort, people don't really "get" just what we are talking about. They either assume too little or too much. All it really takes is fifteen minutes a day practicing your combos (and once you can do the combos 95% of the time, you move to practicing hit confirming into those combos or something safe instead). This is so true. I'm trying to come up with a basic regimen I can follow every day where it's 15-20 minutes of practicing with Ryu in training mode, and playing against other players a few times a week. I find someone in a lobby that is roughly my level (currently bronze) and if it's too easy I try to find someone else. Battling people who are ultra silver+ is pointless since they're at a different level of understanding the game than I am, and if anything it hurts my ability to get better through practice. Every now and then I watch really high level players (or fight them) who use Ryu so that I can see what they're doing and try to do the same.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 05:49
|
|
|
Verisimilidude posted:This is so true. I'm trying to come up with a basic regimen I can follow every day where it's 15-20 minutes of practicing with Ryu in training mode, and playing against other players a few times a week. I find someone in a lobby that is roughly my level (currently bronze) and if it's too easy I try to find someone else. Battling people who are ultra silver+ is pointless since they're at a different level of understanding the game than I am, and if anything it hurts my ability to get better through practice. Every now and then I watch really high level players (or fight them) who use Ryu so that I can see what they're doing and try to do the same. you want to play those silvers in battle lounge so that over several games you develop ways to at least not die so fast. that's how you get better.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 06:17
|
|
|
I probably got more help with my fundamentals by sitting in training mode for a half hour or so every day against a bot (set every three seconds to randomly choose between a jumping MK -> cr.MK, a fireball, or standing still) than I did in weeks of being destroyed in Ranked.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 07:46
|
|
|
Verisimilidude posted:This is so true. I'm trying to come up with a basic regimen I can follow every day where it's 15-20 minutes of practicing with Ryu in training mode, and playing against other players a few times a week. I find someone in a lobby that is roughly my level (currently bronze) and if it's too easy I try to find someone else. Battling people who are ultra silver+ is pointless since they're at a different level of understanding the game than I am, and if anything it hurts my ability to get better through practice. Every now and then I watch really high level players (or fight them) who use Ryu so that I can see what they're doing and try to do the same. Getting destroyed can teach you soooooo much. Just don't care about winning cus you're not gonna anyway
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 09:17
|
|
|
Checking into the thread to ask if they have an ETA on the Cash Shop yet.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 09:21
|
|
|
No
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 09:21
|
|
|
NecroMonster posted:if you think there isn't poo poo in smash bros that makes people feel real bad than you've never actually played smash bros I play with items on because Smash Bros is about having fun
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 14:25
|
|
|
Real hurthling! posted:gg is way simpler to do work in though because practically every character has good poo poo that anyone can chain up. I was kinda floored after playing a few months of SFV and sitting down with the Revelator beta and trying a new character and just trying to hit loops and it seemed like I was doing cool (non-optimal of course) poo poo accidentally all over the place. Forgot about that in GG
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 14:35
|
|
|
dangerdoom volvo posted:Getting destroyed can teach you soooooo much. Just don't care about winning cus you're not gonna anyway I think my career in Xrd is like 20 - 800 or something, all just player battles though
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 14:38
|
|
|
In Training posted:I think my career in Xrd is like 20 - 800 or something, all just player battles though Same
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 16:10
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/GrahamWolfe1/status/728997955328319488 I hardly ever do anything when a nash does dash throw, too fast 4me.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 20:43
|
|
|
150ms to react to it with a 100ms penalty from the lag COOL
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
In Training posted:I play with items on because Smash Bros is about having fun
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 21:10
|
|
|
I play SFV with items on e: HoboWithAShotgun posted:https://twitter.com/GrahamWolfe1/status/728997955328319488 SOLUTION: Nash yells "I AM GOING TO GRAB YOU" or "TIME TO GO FAST!!" on the first startup frame. dhamster fucked around with this message at 23:31 on May 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 23:26
|
|
|
include a visual "DASH" indicator like they do for counter hits and reversals i am revolutionizing fighting games
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 23:48
|
|
|
dhamster posted:I play SFV with items on For comparison, try to react to Laura EX command grab (19f), it's practically impossible when you set up random recordings that'll make you fail if you try to guess. It even has distinct visual (character becomes piss colored) and audio (EX sound) cues to help. Then there's Nash's dash which has a bunch of useless frames that are indistinguishable from him wiggling back and forth with no sound or distinct visual cues to help, as well as being "faster" than Laura's command grab even when including follow-up moves. Let's say the dash has recognizable key frames from frame 9 onward, that leaves you with a "startup" of 9f + 5f = 14f for a dash into grab 
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2016 23:49
|
|
|
apple posted:For comparison, try to react to Laura EX command grab (19f), it's practically impossible when you set up random recordings that'll make you fail if you try to guess. It even has distinct visual (character becomes piss colored) and audio (EX sound) cues to help. It kinda explains why they made throws worse too, imagine trying to tech poo poo on an 8f delay with unreactable dashes AND a 3f throw with extended range?
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 00:18
|
|
|
Dias posted:It kinda explains why they made throws worse too, imagine trying to tech poo poo on an 8f delay with unreactable dashes AND a 3f throw with extended range? oh my god it makes so much sense now!!! a thought is forming in my head... could it be... capcom sucks???
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 00:20
|
|
|
Dias posted:It kinda explains why they made throws worse too, imagine trying to tech poo poo on an 8f delay with unreactable dashes AND a 3f throw with extended range? It'd still be extremely hard with 5f delay, in fact even stuff like random Ken run cancels will still catch people off-guard, you just probably wouldn't see Momochi fishing for crush counters off cr.MK>VSkill which is minus death on hit.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
not even a good kind of sucking capcom sucks the bad way
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 00:24
|
|
|
apple posted:It'd still be extremely hard with 5f delay, in fact even stuff like random Ken run cancels will still catch people off-guard, you just probably wouldn't see Momochi fishing for crush counters off cr.MK>VSkill which is minus death on hit. Of course, the input lag just makes things worse. I just like to think about Capcom's design decisions with hindsight because after the input lag news a lot of those became clearer to me.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 00:32
|
|
|
Still no lobby flags as usual. Why are they taking everything down every week for 1/3 of the day.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 00:35
|
|
|
HoboWithAShotgun posted:Still no lobby flags as usual. Why are they taking everything down every week for 1/3 of the day. Maybe they hosed up to a point where if they dont reset everything periodically it would all fall apart
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 00:47
|
|
|
anime was right posted:oh my god Well I mean, Capcom just put this out if there's still any doubt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baRRrEO8FXY
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 02:08
|
|
|
NecroMonster posted:not even a good kind of sucking whats a good kind of sucking whats a company that sucks in a good way
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 02:18
|
|
|
who said anything about the good kind of sucking being something a company can even do wait do you not have a sense of humor
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 02:23
|
|
|
General Morden posted:whats a company that sucks in a good way Cosplay Hoes Inc.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 02:25
|
|
|
General Morden posted:whats a good kind of sucking 
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 02:35
|
|
|
Dias posted:Of course, the input lag just makes things worse. I just like to think about Capcom's design decisions with hindsight because after the input lag news a lot of those became clearer to me. Their intent is still a mystery to me, TBH. I suspect they wanted a "standard" amount of input lag because that's what they've been doing up until now (with varying consistency). If they DID want as much as 8f of input lag I would think they'd explicitly seek feedback about it during the betas since that much is unheard of in 2D fighters. If it's intended that's ok, at least it means that's the game we're meant to play. We'll need word from Capcom for that though. I think SFV is a better game with less input lag though: PC with VSync off felt better while still requiring a lot of anticipation in many scenarios.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 02:47
|
|
|
Im learning a new character and dropping down in the rankings back to bronze and i got ultra silvers refusing to run it back on me if i beat them. Dishonorable
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 03:28
|
|
|
apple posted:Their intent is still a mystery to me, TBH. I suspect they wanted a "standard" amount of input lag because that's what they've been doing up until now (with varying consistency). If they DID want as much as 8f of input lag I would think they'd explicitly seek feedback about it during the betas since that much is unheard of in 2D fighters. If it's intended that's ok, at least it means that's the game we're meant to play. We'll need word from Capcom for that though. I can't help but think the 8f of input lag are intentional or at the very least unavoidable, because everything in this game was made slower by about 3f. As to why they might've doing it, I dunno. Maybe as a "buffer" for netplay? But even then the game gets laggier online, so hell if I know. It also pushes an "active" gameplay, as in "press a bunch of fuckin' buttons" - dash-in throws are very good (dashes got improved overall, it's the ONE thing that was made faster in SFV), people jump a lot, cr.LP is king, etc.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 03:55
|
|
|
Does adaptive vsync reduce input lag? gently caress screen tearing in the rear end.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 04:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 18:31 |
|
|
capcom just works backwards when designing their fighting games now, instead of making games that end up with a specific metagame because of players over time finding the best strategies, they design their games to have a specific metagame from the start marvel games of old were well known for their lengthy combos = marvel 3 lets every character do a lengthy combo into super for over 60% life via chain combos and otg strekken needs to be a fun party game so it doesn't feel superfluous with our "serious" game SF4 = add a bunch of power stone stuff like items and simple inputs and four player mode SF5 needs to be about Hard Reads and Commitment instead of the more reactive/safe style that dominated sf4 = we're going to make everything unsafe and the game lag so you have no choice but to play like this
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2016 04:32
|
|
