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Open, every now and then you demonstrate to us all why you are an utter idiot. In this case, the fact of the matter is that the milk producers have to go through the duopoly of Woolworths and Coles to get their product to market. These chains have been leveraging that power they have over the producers to force the price lower in a several years long and well documented price war with each other that has had the wonderful side effect (from their perspective) of forcing a lot of others out of the market since they just can't run a profit. What you are missing is that there is no real change in demand or supply, not to a meaningful extent. What you have here is a clear example of the power of cartels to distort the market to the detriment of all other players. This is why there are usually rules against poo poo like price fixing, because they decrease competition in the market and gently caress everyone over. Anyway, I have wasted enough brainpower on Open. Time for First Dog:  Kittens: 
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May 12, 2016 05:41
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there are many retail channels for consumer milk products that aren't coles/woolworths
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May 12, 2016 05:44
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Pickled Tink posted:Open, every now and then you demonstrate to us all why you are an utter idiot. This is not limited to Australia. If you're going to blame Australian supermarkets for a worldwide decline in dairy prices then you're going to have to do a better job than that. There is also a clear and obvious increase in supply. I mean, what kind of evidence would you accept? What figures would you like to see? open24hours fucked around with this message at 05:47 on May 12, 2016 |
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May 12, 2016 05:44
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You know after seeing knifegrab get a mod challange in the VR thread to only sing the praises of the oculus rift for 60 posts, i would happily donate $100 to a mods charity of choice to have the same thing happen to Negligent
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May 12, 2016 05:47
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Open. You are ignoring the fact that it is not the people who sell the milk that have a say in the price. In the article that started this, supermarkets are telling them the price they will pay, and if milk producers don't like it they can eat poo poo. They even made the changes retrospective. This is not standard market economics. This is a cartel abusing its position to deliberately distort the market. ps: You are stupid.
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May 12, 2016 05:49
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You're just ignoring the question now.
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May 12, 2016 05:53
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open24hours posted:You're just ignoring the question now. You, on the other hand, are ignoring facts, economic theory, and a well documented price war where suppliers have been squeezed by the distributors.
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May 12, 2016 05:55
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While dollar milk has a lot to answer for, the recent problem has a lot more to do with Devondale milk powder failing in China. They sold about a quarter what they projected in the first 6 months of the financial year and are nowhere near the years forecast. The prime buying season in terms of online sales to China is October through February and the powder stockpile will grow while loads of unsold product expires. A year ago Devondale was THE brand to have for Chinese buying Australian milk, so much that JD.com bought a big share in Murray Goulburn and has been encouraging them to overproduce. No distributor will touch it while MG flogs it off for 5.50/kg though. The Chinese consumer doesn't trust that kind of price drop and this will only further devalue the brand. Fonterra is being quite opportunistic with their drop which they backdated to beginning of season. We might finally see the end of dollar milk as a result, otherwise there's going to be a lot of beef on the market soon Firetrick fucked around with this message at 05:58 on May 12, 2016 |
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May 12, 2016 05:55
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open24hours posted:There is also a clear and obvious increase in supply. I mean, what kind of evidence would you accept? What figures would you like to see? That the milk price wars didn't have an impact on the wholesale price of milk? That the current price is actually due to the global price decrease and not just a similar outcome caused by an independent problem?
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May 12, 2016 05:57
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Pickled Tink posted:I'm only ignoring an irrelevant question. I didn't deny that there was a price war, or that suppliers have been squeezed by distributors, and I still don't. The worldwide decline in dairy prices is not caused by actions of Australian supermarkets. If you want to argue differently then feel free to provide some evidence.
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May 12, 2016 05:57
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open24hours posted:The worldwide decline in dairy prices is not caused by actions of Australian supermarkets. If you want to argue differently then feel free to provide some evidence. No one's arguing this though. Just that Australia has been largely shielded from the global decrease in demand, but that other factors are causing our prices to drop.
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May 12, 2016 06:00
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:That the milk price wars didn't have an impact on the sale price of milk? That the current price is actually due to the global price decrease and not just a similar outcome caused by an independent problem? You can look at farm gate prices and see that there has not been a massive decline since the introduction of $1 milk, and prices were higher in 2014/15 than they were before the introduction of $1 milk. http://www.dairyaustralia.com.au/Markets-and-statistics/Prices/Farmgate-Prices.aspx
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May 12, 2016 06:03
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There's been a decline in demand for your posting, go bail yourself out.
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May 12, 2016 06:06
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thatbastardken posted:There's been a decline in demand for your posting, go bail yourself out. 
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May 12, 2016 06:08
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open24hours posted:You can look at farm gate prices and see that there has not been a massive decline since the introduction of $1 milk, and prices were higher in 2014/15 than they were before the introduction of $1 milk. http://www.dairyaustralia.com.au/Markets-and-statistics/Production-and-sales/Domestic-Sales-Summary.aspx quote:The private label brands' share of total supermarket milk volumes has been relatively stable over the last couple of years; and up from around 25% back in 1999/2000. Looking more closely at the fresh white milk segments, where the majority of the pricing activity of the past two and a half years has occurred, private label brands currently account for 64% of fresh white regular full cream milk and 51% of modified fresh white milk sales.
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May 12, 2016 06:10
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Milkchat is the best chat. I hate discussing whatever new baby Bill Shorten has killed.
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May 12, 2016 06:12
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open24hours posted:What difference does it make what commodity you produce? Cotton farms require a lot more water and are essentially unsustainable in Australian conditions - so they set them up on the banks of the Murray and kill water supply downstream. Then they complain during drought. Dairy farming is a lot more sustainable in comparison.
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May 12, 2016 06:15
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Also pineapple in a pizza can gently caress right off, and that FDoTM was terrible as no one but Guardian readers will even see it and it wasn't funny.
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May 12, 2016 06:16
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:http://www.dairyaustralia.com.au/Markets-and-statistics/Production-and-sales/Domestic-Sales-Summary.aspx This doesn't show what you think it shows. The price milk is sold to consumers for and the price paid to farmers are different things. open24hours fucked around with this message at 06:19 on May 12, 2016 |
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May 12, 2016 06:16
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In unrelated news, WA state budget comes out in about an hour. Will be interesting to see if they continue to freeze public service hiring, if they actually fund services at all or if they cut stuff even more. A bad state budget could have influence on the federal election although as the state election is early next year i'm betting on a 'oh all those huge cuts to everything we did last 3 years, forget those we are building some giant project that is super cool', which could possibly swing WA voters back to liberals for the federal election as people don't seem able to separate state and federal governments.
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May 12, 2016 06:19
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Also pineapple in a pizza can gently caress right off, and that FDoTM was terrible as no one but Guardian readers will even see it and it wasn't funny. gently caress off, pineapple is the ultimate pizza topping
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May 12, 2016 06:20
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I for one do not like the texture of pineapple on my pizza vote for me in the senate
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May 12, 2016 06:23
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As the traffic rolls by various Adelaide folks are blasting their horns at Xenophon. If you’ve ever wandered around the city with him, it’s like being with a minor celebrity. It’s really quite a thing. Why is NX so popular? Do Adelaidans have nothing better to do than cheer for a bloke whose face looks like porridge that's been dropped on a footpath?
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May 12, 2016 06:30
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open24hours posted:This doesn't show what you think it shows. The price milk is sold to consumers for and the price paid to farmers are different things. You're right, I thought that private-labels all bypassed the processors, like Farmer's Own. But that's only 4%, not 64%.
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May 12, 2016 06:30
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Manus Island asylum seekers no longer in detention, says Papua New Guinea Asylum seekers and refugees are no longer in detention on Manus Island, according to a Papua New Guinea immigration official who has said they have freedom to leave the centre. The move is designed to get around last month’s supreme court ruling that detention of the almost 900 men is illegal and unconstitutional, and reportedly offers them freedom to go into the nearby town of Lorengau. The PNG immigration department made the announcement on Thursday, the ABC reported, with deputy chief migration officer Esther Gaegaming claiming “no asylum seeker or refugee is in detention”. But Iranian journalist and Manus Island detainee Behrouz Bouchani said there had been no new announcement to the detainees, and freedoms remained restricted. Bouchani said a bus went into Lorengau from outside the prison three times a day, and had done since a few days after the court decision. There had been no new announcement in recent days, beyond a case manager flagging a “cultural program” for detainees who wished to visit Manus villages and learn about PNG culture, he said. “We can only use the bus on these times for going to town, and also we need to write a request form and wait for their response,” he told Guardian Australia. Detainees were told of the bus service after the court decision. “We cannot go outside freely because around the centre is navy area,” he said. He also said some people with negative refugee claims had been permitted to go into Lorengau, despite the new arrangement reportedly allowing only for those who agree to resettle in PNG. Restrictions on inter-compound movement between the separated groups of those with approved refugee claims and those whose claims were rejected, remained in place, Bouchani added, and he had seen an increased police presence on the island. The PNG immigration minister could not be reached for comment. Ian Rintoul, spokesman for the Refugee Action Coalition, dismissed the new regulations. “Papua New Guinea can open the gates to fulfil some technicality, but people are not free to move out of the detention centre wherever they like,” he told Reuters. The Australian immigration minister, Peter Dutton, on Thursday morning directed reporters’ questions to the PNG authorities, but reiterated his view that Manus was the responsibility of PNG. However he confirmed Australia still provided for the services which ran it, and said there would be no renegotiation of contracts based on its new “open” nature. “We obviously provide funding to the PNG Government and to organisations to provide those health services, those meals, all those services that are provided,” he said. “As you’re aware there’s no detention on Nauru. It’s an open arrangement there, 24/7 open centre arrangement, and if PNG are heading down that track well that’s really an issue for the PNG Government to comment on.” The supreme court ruling threw the offshore processing agreement between Australia and PNG into disarray, both governments claiming the other was responsible for the – now illegally – detained men. High-level talks have been held between the two governments to determine a response, although Dutton this week said he did not see it being resolved until after the federal election. He also said the supreme court did not rule that Manus “needed to close”. He had previously flagged that an “open centre” style arrangement, like that on Nauru, could address the court’s concerned. The court ruling called for both the Australian and PNG governments to “take all steps necessary to cease and prevent the continued unconstitutional and illegal detention”. The following day the PNG prime minister, Peter O’Neill, announced the centre would close. In the space of one day the internal gates of the facility were opened, allowing detainees to move freely between compounds and use phones without retribution, and then shut again just hours later, separating people with different determinations. On Friday PNG’s deputy permanent representative to the United Nations, Fred Sarufa, fronted the UN for PNG’s universal periodic review. Sarufa told the panel PNG accepted the court ruling and was working to make “appropriate arrangements”. http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/12/manus-island-asylum-seekers-no-longer-in-detention-says-papua-new-guinea
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May 12, 2016 06:37
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Mike Baird has this morning sacked me as the Mayor of Leichhardt and abolished Leichhardt Council. Every other elected Councillor in Leichhardt, Marrickville and Ashfield has also been sacked. A hand picked Liberal Party Dictator has been appointed by Baird to rule the Inner West for at least 18 months. I can announce that myself and the Mayors of Ashfield and Marrickville will form an elected Mayors Council to stand up for and protect our communities for as long as this dictatorship lasts. Like and share if you will stand with us and fight against Baird and his dictator. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1012038842205345&id=559272954148605
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May 12, 2016 07:10
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Cotton farms require a lot more water and are essentially unsustainable in Australian conditions - so they set them up on the banks of the Murray and kill water supply downstream. Then they complain during drought. This is just false. From a water perspective how sustainable farming is is determined by how water rights are regulated not by the type of commodity grown. Dairy farms aren't exactly light on their water usage either.
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May 12, 2016 07:11
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Spudd posted:Mike Baird has this morning sacked me as the Mayor of Leichhardt and abolished Leichhardt Council. Good I didn't vote for you
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May 12, 2016 07:15
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Releasing people into the wilds of New Guinea may prove to be even crueler than keeping them locked up. Bravo Guys.open24hours posted:Wish someone would bail out my business when demand dropped. See how someone casually dumped on the farmers due to the drop in demand? Turns out those very same farmers were not receiving any benefit from the previous enormous increase in demand and consequent lack of supply. It is a bit rich to suddenly invoke the invisible hand of the free market when that is definitely not what the farmers have been experiencing up to that point. Now if this wasn't in anyway what you were saying then mea culpa but... To my eye this is one of those wonderful free market catch alls. Things gently caress up? Public help and subsidy. Things go well? gently caress you got mine! Hey keep those big government tax claws off my back! Everything ratchets in one direction only and it is always to the favour of the house.
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May 12, 2016 07:15
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Birdstrike posted:Good I didn't vote for you Whoops, didn't make it a quote. My bad. Still vote 1 for Spudd, I'll change our national flag to D-Dog.
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May 12, 2016 07:16
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Cartoon posted:See how someone casually dumped on the farmers due to the drop in demand? Turns out those very same farmers were not receiving any benefit from the previous enormous increase in demand and consequent lack of supply. Uhh, lol? Now I can't tell who's being ironic.
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May 12, 2016 07:17
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Spudd posted:Still vote 1 for Spudd, I'll change our national flag to D-Dog. Can you change our national anthem to that qail from In His Eyes? Not the song as a whole. Just that WHOOOA-HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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May 12, 2016 07:23
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 Cultural Marxism
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May 12, 2016 07:58
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Meanjin's application for a measly $95k has been knocked back. Will likely close. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/may/12/literary-magazine-meanjin-may-close-after-losing-australia-council-funding?CMP=soc_568
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May 12, 2016 08:05
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Recoome posted:
I still don't get what this means, other than whoever mentions it is almost exclusively a colossal shithead. Ironic users are as always excused.
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May 12, 2016 08:08
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I'm not sure if anyone knows what it really means
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May 12, 2016 08:17
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V for Vegas posted:Meanjin's application for a measly $95k has been knocked back. Will likely close. They could crowdfund that amount, surely?
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May 12, 2016 08:18
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Firetrick posted:While dollar milk has a lot to answer for, the recent problem has a lot more to do with Devondale milk powder failing in China. They sold about a quarter what they projected in the first 6 months of the financial year and are nowhere near the years forecast. The prime buying season in terms of online sales to China is October through February and the powder stockpile will grow while loads of unsold product expires. This was my take on it too. There have been some trade restrictions put in place in China that have slowed demand for dairy products, plus I think the grey imports have been curtailed a bit as well. With the Chinese economy slowing (probably by a lot more than the made-up numbers their government puts out suggest) any industry that bet the farm on China is probably up poo poo creek now or in the not too distant future. But regardless of the cause of the price cuts, this is going to put a huge number of people out of business and gently caress over rural communities. At the very least there should be some sort of assistance package to help farmers adjust to a new crop or leave the land or something.
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May 12, 2016 08:18
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Zenithe posted:I still don't get what this means, other than whoever mentions it is almost exclusively a colossal shithead. Members of the
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May 12, 2016 08:20
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Zenithe posted:I still don't get what this means, other than whoever mentions it is almost exclusively a colossal shithead. People who promote left wing ideals are secretly trying to destroy Western civilisation.
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May 12, 2016 08:24
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