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fnox posted:What the gently caress do Colombian paramilitaries have to do with Caracas? Are you aware how loving far away Caracas is from the border? Why are there colectivos in Caracas then? Who are they protecting, and from what? You forget that they protected neighborhoods and hospitals from violent protestors during the barricades in 2014.
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May 14, 2016 17:38
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Chuck Boone posted:Does the state of exception apply only to the economy? Or is it a blanket measure, sort of like what we in North America might call a state of emergency? Reuters has a piece on this, by the way. To be honest, I'm not sure. The wording of his statement seemed to be ambiguous as to the whole state of exception thing, but as far as I know, the economic emergency decree already placed us under a 'state of emergency', making the whole thing redundant unless he's going to be using it as a justification for more blanket type measures. According to the constitution (http://venezuela.justia.com/federales/constitucion-de-la-republica-bolivariana-de-venezuela/titulo-viii/capitulo-ii/) there are four kinds of state of exception, due to social, economic, political or natural events, and during such a state, some guarantees may be restricted. It's also worth noting the constitution explicitly says the states of exception can only be extended by the National Assembly, so Maduro quite flagrantly violated it yesterday. Then again, what else is new?
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May 14, 2016 17:40
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Chuck Boone posted:How many of those Che Guevara t-shirts do you think someone like that has to own before they earn the right to tell people in Latin America who should govern over them? those are very gauche right now, the new hotness is shirts with the logos of leftist paramilitary groups printed in languages the wearer can't read it's all about smug, smirking virtue-signaling to their equally clueless fellow travelers, not ideology
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May 14, 2016 17:40
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:those are very gauche right now, the new hotness is shirts with the logos of leftist paramilitary groups printed in languages the wearer can't read Without the hipsters and the sociopaths there would be no left at all.
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May 14, 2016 17:43
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Borneo Jimmy posted:You forget that they protected neighborhoods and hospitals from violent protestors during the barricades in 2014. You mean by shooting at unarmed crowds? I wonder what the colectivos of 23 de Enero are doing in Chacao shooting at protesters, they hate the bourgeoisie but they sure love to "protect" them. My offer still stands, come to Caracas, I'll take you to the colectivos, I'll let them protect the gently caress out of you.
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May 14, 2016 17:43
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Here's a live stream from the opposition demonstration in Caracas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ0trL8ngYI Hopefully it stays up. Even if you don't speak Spanish, it could be interesting to watch for a bit. Labradoodle posted:To be honest, I'm not sure. The wording of his statement seemed to be ambiguous as to the whole state of exception thing, but as far as I know, the economic emergency decree already placed us under a 'state of emergency', making the whole thing redundant unless he's going to be using it as a justification for more blanket type measures. Thanks, I see what you mean. DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:those are very gauche right now, the new hotness is shirts with the logos of leftist paramilitary groups printed in languages the wearer can't read Oh! I've dated myself with the Che t-shirt reference. I've never ever seen these new shirts. I guess my social circle is too bourgeois!
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May 14, 2016 17:46
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fnox posted:You mean by shooting at unarmed crowds? Most of the casualties were Chavistas killed by opposition gunmen.
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May 14, 2016 17:49
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Chuck Boone posted:Is the state of exception in effect for May, June and July, or all of 2016? Or all of 2017? Yes. As you probably know by now, the
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May 14, 2016 18:03
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fnox posted:Why are you such a hypocrite in this matter? Why is it only a crime when it inconveniences your agenda? It's because for some reason he finds trolling this thread to be enjoyable; I have never seen him actually engage in a discussion so don't bother trying. I'm not even certain he has any link to Venezuela other than enjoying creating this reaction here.
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May 14, 2016 18:11
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Most of the casualties were Chavistas killed by opposition gunmen. No they weren't, allow me to list them: 7 of 41 people were murdered by the government: Alejandro Márquez, Bassil Da Costa, Geraldine Moreno Orozco, Juan Montoya, Argenis Hernández, Glidis Karelis Chacon Benitez and Jesus Enrique Acosta Matute were shot and murdered by either the GNB, SEBIN, CICPC or municipal police forces. This is something the drat government admits. Roberto Redman was killed in Chacao after carrying Bassil Da Costa's dead body, the government somehow attributes this to the opposition when there's a video showing how the colectivos shot him. Genesis Carmona, a fashion model, was shot while being part of an opposition protest. Jhon Castillo Castillo was a GNB sergeant killed by friendly fire. Daniel Tinoco, José Cirilo Darma García, Juan Orlando Labrador Castiblanco, Giselle Rubilar, Giovanni Pantoja, Ramzor Ernesto Bracho Bravo, Angelo Vargas, Arturo Alexis Martínez, Antonio José Valbuena Morales, José Guillén Araque, Guillermo Sanchez, Acner Isaac López Lyón and Wilfredo Rey were shot by colectivos. José Ernesto Méndez and Mariana Ceballo were ran over while manning a barricade Elvis Rafael Durán De La Rosa died when he drove a bike into a wire set up as part of a barricade, Deivis Durán fell off his bike, Eduardo Anzola was driving at high speed in the night and crashed into a barricade, Luis Gutierrez similarly crashed into a barricade while driving at high speed while drunk at 5 AM, Doris Elena Lobo ran her bike into a barricade and died, Julio González crashed his truck into a barricade, and died when something became lodged in the wheels causing him to hit a wall. The government claims that José Gregorio Amaris Cantillo, Adriana Urquiola and Miguel Antonio Parra died due to the barricades, but Adriana died from a stray bullet, and both Jose Gregorio and Miguel died from colectivos or violence directly caused by them. Jimmy Vargas fell off a building while running away from the GNB, Franklin Alberto Romero Moncada touched a high tension wire, Roberto Annese had a homemade explosive detonate on his hands. The government also claims María Julieta Heredia died from being insulted by neighbors in a cacerolazo, and Luzmila Petit de Colina an 81 years old obese woman suffering from hypertension died from apparently not being able to get to a hospital fast enough. Conveniently those two are listed solely because they're family members of government officials. They don't even know why Joan Quintero died as he was looting a supermarket but they list him among the 41 too. It's really loving convenient too that the government only cares about 41 murders while simultaneously not giving a single gently caress about the 40+ people killed this very week.
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May 14, 2016 18:50
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Bloomberg has an article with the Vice-President of the Economy, Miguel Perez Abad. In the article, Abad says that Venezuela will cut imports by 46% this year: from $37 billion in 2015 to $20 billion this year. He explained why the government is doing this (emphasis mine): quote:We’re going to maintain this level of restriction to force the productive sector of the economy to increase output. Hopefully we could cut imports to as low as $15 billion. Also, how does that logic even work? How is cutting off whatever little food and medicine was trickling in to the country going to result in factories being built in the country? ComradeCosmobot posted:Yes.  fnox posted:No they weren't, allow me to list them:
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May 14, 2016 19:58
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Id pay for a one way ticket to Venezuela if someone made sure he got on the plane.
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May 14, 2016 20:02
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Chuck Boone posted:How many of those Che Guevara t-shirts do you think someone like that has to own before they earn the right to tell people in Latin America who should govern over them? At this point Borneo Jimmy is just layers and layers of Che Guevara T-shirts worn over top of each other. He's Guevaras all the way down.
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May 14, 2016 20:31
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Constant Hamprince posted:At this point Borneo Jimmy is just layers and layers of Che Guevara T-shirts worn over top of each other. He's Guevaras all the way down. Something like this but with only Che Guevara tees? 
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May 14, 2016 20:34
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Literally just ignore the troll. He's happy posting from a first world country claiming chavism is the poo poo and Venezuela a free paradise, then gets off his fat rear end to go order a burger in McDonald's, drink a beer and come back to watch a Friends rerun on TV while posting on a communist circle jerk forum on his Chinese laptop complaining about the CIA. Nobody takes this dumbass seriously, probably anywhere except his Marx porn websites, so stop replying and trying to argument against his stupid rear end misinformed opinions and self delusions. As Venezuelans the best we can do is present the facts we live as they come to pass in order to inform as many people as we can about our situation, so that pissstains like Jimmy have no way to twist our misery into they stupid arguments. Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 20:49 on May 14, 2016 |
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May 14, 2016 20:46
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Chuck Boone posted:Also, how does that logic even work? How is cutting off whatever little food and medicine was trickling in to the country going to result in factories being built in the country? Clearly, the PSUV has chosen to put its economy back in the hands of the free market. It's just supply and demand: So Simple!
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May 14, 2016 22:41
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I like how the government has managed to silence the whole issue of the Amazonas deputies by creating more poo poo. The issue seems petty ATM but the government lacking 2/3rds of the National Assembly is a crucial part of the government's chokehold on the opposition because with the 2/3rds they could remove magistrates.
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May 14, 2016 22:57
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By importing food aren't they making local farmers uncompetitive? You would think a socialist/state capitalist government would be protectionist, using trade barriers to protect local production while using reserves to import things that will increase productivity and development over the long run, like turbines for their powerplants or refinery equipment so they can increase the profit on the oil they produce. Do any actual socialists think the Venezuelan model is anything other than trash? All they've done from what I've seen is transfer resource rent to the populace through subsidized imports. If anything the PSUV has made Venezuela MORE dependent on the imperialist world economy led by the demon Yankees.
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May 14, 2016 22:58
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A cabal of psychopaths driving the country to ruin an death while enriching their Swiss bank accounts *is* what "actual socialism" is. You're seeing it.
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May 14, 2016 23:22
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hypnorotic posted:If anything the PSUV has made Venezuela MORE dependent on the imperialist world economy led by the demon Yankees.
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May 14, 2016 23:40
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The policies of the Venezuelan government aren't so much socialist as they are anti-capitalist. This usually is the same thing, but not all socialist doctrine are opposed to capitalism, AKA why people usually mention the Nordic Model as an example of socialism in action. Ultimately the government's failures in terms of policy are marred by a constant misunderstanding of how economic policy should function, mainly fueled by Chavez' own lack of expertise on the matter. At the moment I don't think there is one sane economist that can defend the economic policy of Venezuela.
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May 15, 2016 00:49
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quote:The Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro, has ordered the seizure of factories that have stopped production and the jailing of their owners. lol
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May 15, 2016 00:57
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Hopefully they jail the heads of SIDOR and PDVSA since most of their plants are stopped too. Oh wait they are state owned meaning only the United States of America and the MUD are to blame for their failures.
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May 15, 2016 01:12
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I got family there, I came from there, all i have to say I hope Nicolas Maduro dies a fiery death.
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May 15, 2016 01:17
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They will take Polar, and people will do nothing about it.
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May 15, 2016 01:34
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fnox posted:The policies of the Venezuelan government aren't so much socialist as they are anti-capitalist. This usually is the same thing, but not all socialist doctrine are opposed to capitalism, AKA why people usually mention the Nordic Model as an example of socialism in action. Ultimately the government's failures in terms of policy are marred by a constant misunderstanding of how economic policy should function, mainly fueled by Chavez' own lack of expertise on the matter. The nordic states aren't really socialist states as much as they are welfare states though. As far as their economy goes they are very much capitalist and they are all very business friendly countries. In Norway for instance the whole idea of social welfare and other related policies goes back to the 1890s when the party Venstre(centre-right liberals) was in power, this was then expanded upon by the Labor party from the 30s onwards, especially in the post-war years, and these socialist policies (if you will) were very much retained and accepted when right-wing parties started to make a come-back starting in the 70s. I mean a large part of the success of the nordic model comes down to the fact that these countries have largley had both influential and independent labor movements that have been able to shape and influence policy in those countries, for instance by supporting powerful social democratic parties to implement social, economic and labor policies in the early 20th century. Another important fact that goes for all of Europe is that the opposition to this has been largely defined by Christian Democracy which generally has not objected to the idea and need for a welfare state. You can say say alot about the 'Nordic Model' but it is very much not an example of a socialist state, or a socialist economy. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 01:40 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 01:36
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fnox posted:The policies of the Venezuelan government aren't so much socialist as they are anti-capitalist. This usually is the same thing, but not all socialist doctrine are opposed to capitalism, AKA why people usually mention the Nordic Model as an example of socialism in action. Ultimately the government's failures in terms of policy are marred by a constant misunderstanding of how economic policy should function, mainly fueled by Chavez' own lack of expertise on the matter. Chavez was a typical caudillo who happened to be hostile to the USA and fond of giving free money to poor people. No more complicated than that
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May 15, 2016 01:56
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I'm amazed Lorenzo Mendoza is not in jail. Why have the Venezuelan government not jailed him and confiscated everything of his that is in Venezuela? It looks like that is Maduro's plan now, given his recent announcement, but I'm surprised it's taken this long already.
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May 15, 2016 11:15
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Mozi posted:It's because for some reason he finds trolling this thread to be enjoyable; I have never seen him actually engage in a discussion so don't bother trying. I'm not even certain he has any link to Venezuela other than enjoying creating this reaction here. Lmbo it's trolling for borneo Jimmy to have dumb opinions but literally saying 'the left' is made up 100% of hipsters and sociopaths is a good, thread approved opinion.
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May 15, 2016 11:22
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Remember this is not a ideological debate about left or right, Venegoons live in a state of terror and hardship, and having an rear end in a top hat that lives comfortably far away come and start spouting that you're part of a giant conspiracy and that your hardship and state of fear is bullshit, well, anyone would just degrade to insults.
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May 15, 2016 11:28
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All leftists: malicious scheming shitlers or merely immature political fashionistas?
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May 15, 2016 11:38
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OfficialGBSCaliph posted:Lmbo it's trolling for borneo Jimmy to have dumb opinions but literally saying 'the left' is made up 100% of hipsters and sociopaths is a good, thread approved opinion. How dare people in this thread bismerch the name of internet leftism. Godspeed random GBS guy!
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May 15, 2016 13:22
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Constant Hamprince posted:How dare people in this thread bismerch the name of internet leftism. Godspeed random GBS guy! Are you alright?
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May 15, 2016 13:28
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OfficialGBSCaliph posted:Are you alright? I'm having a rage-induced heart attack right now because of the posts you made on the internet. How are you?
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May 15, 2016 13:32
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Constant Hamprince posted:I'm having a rage-induced heart attack right now because of the posts you made on the internet. I am eating a croissant.
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May 15, 2016 13:45
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Hugoon Chavez posted:Remember this is not a ideological debate about left or right, Venegoons live in a state of terror and hardship, and having an rear end in a top hat that lives comfortably far away come and start spouting that you're part of a giant conspiracy and that your hardship and state of fear is bullshit, well, anyone would just degrade to insults. Yeah, using this thread and the Venezuela situation as a prop to troll the left isn't too far off from what Borneo Jimmy was doing. Venezuela's situation has a lot of lessons for other countries, like "Don't tie your economy to a single commodity" or "Don't elect strongmen who promise you nice things at the expense of Democracy" or even for the right wing "Don't let the poor's living conditions degrade to the point where a strongman gets elected" and so on and so on. But because there're so many individual lessons that're all important in how this situation came to be, it's really hard to find a decent parallel for the whole thing anywhere else.
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May 15, 2016 14:56
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I don't give a poo poo about the right or the left, the only things I care about is finding food and medicines and this government can't even give us that so they have to go.
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May 15, 2016 14:59
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Saladman posted:I'm amazed Lorenzo Mendoza is not in jail. Why have the Venezuelan government not jailed him and confiscated everything of his that is in Venezuela? It looks like that is Maduro's plan now, given his recent announcement, but I'm surprised it's taken this long already. I think Mendoza is #1 on the PSUV's list of "People to Throw in Jail". He represents everything the PSUV claims to be against. The company he runs, Polar, is a huge fly in the PSUV's ideological soup because it's a privately-run company, yet it's the largest and most successful in Venezuela. What has become obvious is that the government is purposely starving Polar into closing by refusing to grant it dollars for imports. This fact became evident during the brewery closures a few weeks ago: the national brewery association said that no other brewery in the country was having problems getting dollars from the government. Having said all that, Polar and Mendoza specifically have been under threat of expropriation and arrest for years now. Like you said, it is taking a really long time for the PSUV to pull the trigger on these threats. I don't know why. Part of me thinks that the PSUV master plan involves keeping everyone on edge all the time. OfficialGBSCaliph posted:Lmbo it's trolling for borneo Jimmy to have dumb opinions but literally saying 'the left' is made up 100% of hipsters and sociopaths is a good, thread approved opinion. If it makes you feel any better, I think socialism is good. I also think that Venezuela is a kleptocracy that the PSUV is trying to disguise as a socialist country, so it makes little sense to say "Venezuela is a failed state, therefore socialism is bad".
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May 15, 2016 15:57
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Lorenzo Mendoza is a goddamn saint for sticking with Venezuela for so long, he already has factories in other countries and he's only losing money everyday he operates in this country, any other company that was forced to sell at the prices the government forces Polar to sell their products would have left a long time ago.
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May 15, 2016 16:03
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To be fair as well, there has been a big change in the English-speaking left-wing press that has been underway for awhile. I think the shift might have started when Chavez first started getting ill, and after he kicked the bucket the more hyper-partisan attitude just evaporated. If you read The Nation now compared to circa 2005 or so, it's totally changed. The fringe voices out there who still argue the PSUV is leading innovative 21st century socialism are the fringiest of the fringe. Imagine right-wing U.S. neoconservatives saying in 2016 that Iraq will become a bastion of democracy. That's the best way I can compare it to something on the opposite end of the spectrum. You'd look at someone saying that like they're smoking crack or just woke up after a decade frozen in a cryogenic chamber. There's only so much wishful thinking you can do until reality catches up and shows that a project you're ideologically invested in is on the verge of bankruptcy. And the PSUV is ideologically bankrupt, and Venezuela as a country is facing imminent bankruptcy. As in literally about to default. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 16:33 on May 15, 2016 |
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May 15, 2016 16:20
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