|
Cap-65 was trapped in that universes version of Dimension Z since WW2 rather than being frozen. Plus in that world Steve Rogers was killed when the Hydra agent attacked the lab, so Samantha Wilson was given it instead. I do like that Peggy Carter is the Fury of that world. Complete with eyepatch and everything.
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 04:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 08:13 |
|
|
This seems like the sort of info one should drip-feed over several years of a comic.
|
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 04:48
|
|
|
That's all well and good but who wants to read about that? The original premise of the book that most people were sold on was Gwen being Spider-Woman and also having fun in a band. None of that extraneous world building stuff was what I had started reading that book for and suddenly it just kind of became that kind of book and I lost interest.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 04:51
|
|
|
That seems more interesting than whatever teen angst would replace it.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 04:56
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:This seems like the sort of info one should drip-feed over several years of a comic. Yeah, the problem isn't that they're making the universe at large out to be different and weird. It's that they're doing it week to week, every week is a new reveal on how ut's weird. Play out some classic Spider-Man stories with Spider-Gwen! Let her fight a ton of badguys, have some encounters with the Kingpin, get into a lot of trouble, generally be on her own. Then introduce her to other setting elements as you run out of stories. Don't just skip all those stories!
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 04:59
|
|
|
Matt works for Kingpin, so having a showdown between Gwen and Criminal Daredevil would be kind of awesome.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 05:01
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:That seems more interesting than whatever teen angst would replace it. Perhaps you should read the comic before oh, I dunno, pretending you know literally anything about it beyond what you've read in this thread. twistedmentat posted:Cap-65 was trapped in that universes version of Dimension Z since WW2 rather than being frozen. Plus in that world Steve Rogers was killed when the Hydra agent attacked the lab, so Samantha Wilson was given it instead. Again, it's not the inherent idea of having a different universe, it's just that's a large majority of what it is now is pointless exposition about characters I don't care about. The Gwen/George Stacy stuff has been great and really validated the story idea, just like how Peter/Aunt May stuff has produced the best stories in Spider-Man. As other people mentioned, all the really fun unique parts of Spider-Gwen - the fact that she's in a band, her bodega job, struggling to pay rent, living with her roommates, the fact that outside of Captain America it really does seem like she's the only superhero which exists - all that stuff is really fresh and new. Even some of the more mundane changes, like black Reed Richards who doesn't have super powers, or rear end in a top hat lawyer Matt Murdock, that stuff is fun because the comic just assumes that you'll get it, and don't need pages of backstory explaining it. Like, seriously, Captain America is Captain America. Anyone who is buying a glorified What If comic knows, when someone says the words "Captain America", what that means. I didn't need to know who Captain America is to care about Captain America (especially when her backstory is quite literally "the one you already know but slightly different"), and backstory for a different hero shouldn't be the focus of a book titled "Spider-Gwen". The frustrating part is that S-G is not a bad comic. It can be really good, when it's not a bunch of exposition or weirdly turning Peter Parker-65 into the biggest rear end in a top hat ever (which cheapens Gwen's regret over being unable to save him because he comes off more and more irredeemable). If it were just bad I'd quit, but there's something there that makes me read it, desperately hoping it somehow turns into Silk. Which turned itself from a literal retcon of the most important event of Peter Parker's life and is now arguably the best Spider-Whatever related book Marvel's currently publishing. Gwen can make that jump, there's an appeal there. It just hasn't, and in a way that feels really avoidable/fixable. IT's really frustrating. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 05:24 on May 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 05:12
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Perhaps you should read the comic before oh, I dunno, pretending you know literally anything about it beyond what you've read in this thread. Though i might pick it up you are actually selling me on it well. I thought it was going to be generic teen drama #100 and it seems he is avoiding that crap for now.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 06:04
|
|
|
I know people are probably going to yell at me for bringing it up, but Spider-Girl/MC2 did the worldbuilding a whole lot better than Spider-Gwen does. I wonder if part of that is because Gwen's origins are explicitly rooted in a multiversal story and as such are tied directly to comparison to the 616. Whereas Spider-Girl came to be as, originally just a one-off in an issue if What If, at their weird point where they didn't have the 'question' in the title any more and got a bit more abstract showing the differences from mainstream continuity. They left some interesting changes (the new line-ups of Avengers & X- I want to read the Spider-Gwen books where he didn't. Where Gwen isn't constantly comparing herself to the 616 (when she's not visiting it every other issue), and the writers don't feel the need to repeatedly bring up every single difference and explain it to us. She's not Spider-Gwen - she's the Spider-Woman of Earth-65.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 08:57
|
|
|
To be fair, the best parts of Spider-Gwen and what give it a lot of interesting texture is when she interacts with 616 characters, because they often reveal a side of herself that she has to by necessity keep hidden, or just make for great dialog in general. Spider-Women has been a great crossover that has lifted all three lines and introduced neat complications to their respective premises via the crossover that should make for more interesting lines moving forward. It's just even when Spider-Gwen's the best it's ever been it's still kinda frustratingly poor with the most recent issue again (again!) figuring out an awkward and pointless way to cram in some Earth-65's character backstory in the middle of a fight.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2016 14:35
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Matt works for Kingpin, so having a showdown between Gwen and Criminal Daredevil would be kind of awesome. Uh, no. Matt IS the Kingpin. Fisk is in prison, and unlike every other case where that happens and the lackey is too scared or loyal to try and gently caress him over, Matt has an army of ninjas to do his bidding and is a master ninja with the world's best cover. The scene with him and George, complete with Matt wearing a version of the Waid/Samnee "I AM NOT DAREDEVIL" shirt, is the closest to paying off on the high concept that the book got in a while, especially followed by the scenes with George, Gwen and Uncle Ben. CharlestheHammer posted:The problems you are having are conceptually not with the writing itself so reading the book would have no effect on this conversation. The thing is the teen drama are what the writer is actually good at, and the book is at it's best when it does that stuff. Imagine if in the middle of an issue of Amazing Spider-Man we're introduced to, oh, say, the Winter Soldier, but instead of him just showing up and helping Spidey, we stop the book for 5 pages to go through a Cliffs Notes version of Brubaker's Cap run, which isn't detailed enough to be interesting in and of itself, but takes long enough that you notice it killed the pacing of the book to tell you about a character that shouldn't be dominating the story. THAT's what happens in every issue of Spider-Gwen. And as Toxx said, those backstory bits rarely add anything that you don't get from the basic high concept of Black Lady Captain America. It really doesn't matter WHY she's a Woman Out Of Time, we know she is because she's CAP. The only one that HAS mattered majorly is Frank Castle, and that was done efficiently. (You could argue Harry Osborn, but I don't think retconning the Green Goblin into his D&D character really helped anyone.)
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 02:48
|
|
|
It's weird cause the book basically took a six-year timeskip to get Gwen out of high school and to avoid all the dumb "let's retell Spider-Man's origin story but different!" that killed stuff like, say, Chapter One, and is filling in the gaps with flashbacks (which isn't itself perfect but works well enough)...and then undercuts that with the exposition.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 02:55
|
|
|
So I skimmed around trying to see if this was asked recently so forgive me if I missed it. But I'm not much of a comics reader, I just dip in and out of cool series I like. Last time I looked there was some big ongoing intertwining plotline between Avengers and New Avengers involving the various universes colliding. It seemed really neat, but I figured I'd sit and wait for it to be collected. Has this happened? What collections do I buy to have this, what tie ins are essential, what can I get digitally and what can I wishlist in hardback?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 04:47
|
|
|
Sextro posted:So I skimmed around trying to see if this was asked recently so forgive me if I missed it. But I'm not much of a comics reader, I just dip in and out of cool series I like. Last time I looked there was some big ongoing intertwining plotline between Avengers and New Avengers involving the various universes colliding. It seemed really neat, but I figured I'd sit and wait for it to be collected. New avengers, avengers infinity, and secret war by Hickman. It's all in digitally and in trade. The tie ins are relates to secret war a be are Thors, siege, and whatever one catches your eye.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 04:52
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:It's just even when Spider-Gwen's the best it's ever been it's still kinda frustratingly poor with the most recent issue again (again!) figuring out an awkward and pointless way to cram in some Earth-65's character backstory in the middle of a fight. I'm not sure if Jason Latour is legitimately aware of that, but he does have a Tumblr, soooooo. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Plus Samantha Wilson spending sixty-five years quantum leaping though space and time is legitimately awesome and I will brook no argument about it.)
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:04
|
|
|
Castomira posted:
Yeah, its the sort of awesome thing that should be a comic book, not crammed into a few pages in the middle of another comic book where it's not really relevant.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:06
|
|
|
It wasn't irrelevant. It was there to convey the idea that Spider-Gwen was about to get her rear end supremely kicked, and it worked. If any character is pointless and didn't really need to be introduced in Spider-Gwen, it's Sam II.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:15
|
|
|
Sextro posted:So I skimmed around trying to see if this was asked recently so forgive me if I missed it. But I'm not much of a comics reader, I just dip in and out of cool series I like. Last time I looked there was some big ongoing intertwining plotline between Avengers and New Avengers involving the various universes colliding. It seemed really neat, but I figured I'd sit and wait for it to be collected. Yes, it happened and was called Secret Wars (not to be confused with Secret Wars from the 80s or Secret Wars 2 from later in the 80s, or Secret War, or Secret Warriors). The short version is that all the different realities in the multiverse were crashing and destroying each other/themselves in collosions called Incursions. As the last ones were destroyed, Dr. Doom saved what he could and formed a patchwork reality called Battleworld, consisting of different domains representing different Marvel times and realities, and over which he ruled as God-Emperor. So there's a 9-issue series about that, and also a ton of side stories taking place in various realms of Battleworld that revisit classic storylines or alternate timelines, etc. None of those side stories are ESSENTIAL but many are really cool. After Secret Wars ended, everything in the Marvel universe basically rebooted, with an 8-month gap readers didn't get to see, and almost everyone doesn't remember what happened, but knows there was some event that saved the universe from the Incursions somehow. The leadup to it is mostly in Jonathan Hickman's run of New Avengers, but also some of it in his run of Fantastic 4. You don't need that to understand what is going on in Secret Wars once you know what I said above, but it does give more backstory. All of that should be digital, and most should be on Marvel Unlimited.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:20
|
|
|
Castomira posted:I think a lot of these story decisions make more sense when one takes into consideration that Spider-Gwen is basically Alt-Continuity Porn (and pretty much has been, from word one) and is almost certainly more popular among female readers than male readers, if only slightly. And if the entire body of work on AO3 (and my own inclinations) are any indication, female geeks loving love alternate universes. I don't think starting up an Ultimate Universe is necessarily a good idea so soon after scrapping the last one (and especially considering how awful the 1610 turned out) but if Latour wants to do that then he should do that over this weird half-step where people like me who just want to read about the adventures of Spider-Gwen and instead have to take random detours where the comic totally no for reals explains how different this universe is. It's not enough worldbuilding to be meaningful and it hamstrings the character work that should be the centerpiece of the book, pleasing nobody outside of total spergs who care solely about how the universe functions as opposed to the context within it functions or the meaningful stories that function within it. Because that way lies madness like midichlorians, total nonsense pointless exposition just for the sake of having it.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:26
|
|
|
JoshTheStampede posted:After Secret Wars ended, everything in the Marvel universe basically rebooted, with an 8-month gap readers didn't get to see, and almost everyone doesn't remember what happened, but knows there was some event that saved the universe from the Incursions somehow. Except not really. Outside of New Avengers and Ultimates, especially the latter, no real rebooting happened. Pretty much every creative team that went into SW 2015 came out of it on the same books with the same canon, so it's not like New 52 where there's a clean break in continuity. In fact, even in NA and Ultimates (which acknowledge the events of SW most explicitly) it's still a continuation of stories and character arcs that existed before the events of SW. Basically, you can not read SW and keep to the same lines you always read and excepting for Avengers and New Avengers there's no change really at all, and the only real thing you actually have to know to get the new canon is that Miles Morales and The Maker is in the 616 and the entire Richards family isn't. Everything else is exactly the same, just eight months later. If you want to know more about SW, and you really should because it's excellent, you basically have to read everything Jonathan Hickman wrote from Dark Reign: Fantastic Four to the very end of SW 2015. It's very much one "large" story seven years in the making all commiserating on the same themes and ideas. I wrote a reading list, let me scrounge it up.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:34
|
|
|
/\/\/\ True, rebooted is the wrong word. Reshuffled I guess - only a few things changed in the 616, like Wakanda being more important and Thanos being gone (but is now back). The Ultimate Universe being gone and the few good thinsg from it being folded in to the 616 is most of what changed, unless there's some big stuff in the 8-Month Gap that contradicts what we think we know, like Whatever Cyclops Did or whatever. I want that reading list too, btw, since I didn't read any of the leadup to SW and just jumped in at SW #1, so it'll go on my list of To-Read When I Get Marvel Unlimited along with my X-Men catchup list. Toxxupation posted:Because that way lies madness like midichlorians, total nonsense pointless exposition just for the sake of having it. Or Ultimate Iron Man being made out of magic brain or whatever Orson Scott Card made up. JoshTheStampede fucked around with this message at 16:38 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:35
|
|
|
Okay found it.Toxxupation posted:Okay, gently caress. I think I got the loving list down. I did this about a month ago. I can say post-trip report that of the minis I read (which were all ones that other people told me they liked) I really didn't like OML or E is for Extinction, and don't think either should be read (especially the latter, which is poorly written trash with terrible art). Civil War is a great mini (better than the event itself) but it's totally ignorable and basically doesn't function unless you've read the event, because it just sort of assumes you know what happened. 1872 is fine, but totally skippable. The only two minis I would argue that everybody HAS TO READ because they're plot-relevant are Thors and Siege (and the former is one of the best ideas ever executed perfectly), but Planet Hulk and IG are both super fun and some of the best minis in the event so is definitely worth reading. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 16:52 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:50
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Okay found it. I read OML and I found it to be really good with amazing art. If you are reading his current book which is really good you should give it a try. If you like Morrisons New X-Men then you should give E is for Extinction a try. I read it and it was a fun miniseries/homage to Morrisons awesome run.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 16:59
|
|
|
For reference, because Hickman never really explains it, if you start with Dark Reign: Fantastic Four you might be confused about its setup. Dark Reign comes on the tail end of a bunch of bad things that happened in the Marvel Universe, all in very quick succession: superheroes fighting each other in Civil War, Skrulls attempting (and failing) to infiltrate Earth and its superheroes via the Skrull Invasion, and the Illuminati (a secret order meant to protect earth against large-scale threats) deciding that Hulk was too much of a bother to actually address and shooting him off to space. Dark Reign: Fantastic Four is Reed, feeling guilty about all this bad poo poo happening, trying to think of a way to solve it to the satisfaction of all involved.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 17:09
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:For reference, because Hickman never really explains it, if you start with Dark Reign: Fantastic Four you might be confused about its setup. Dark Reign comes on the tail end of a bunch of bad things that happened in the Marvel Universe, all in very quick succession: superheroes fighting each other in Civil War, Skrulls attempting (and failing) to infiltrate Earth and its superheroes via the Skrull Invasion, and the Illuminati (a secret order meant to protect earth against large-scale threats) deciding that Hulk was too much of a bother to actually address and shooting him off to space. Dark Reign: Fantastic Four is Reed, feeling guilty about all this bad poo poo happening, trying to think of a way to solve it to the satisfaction of all involved. And Norman Osborne is running SHIELD (called HAMMER). Man, Dark Reign was a good time, even if some dumb stuff was happening too. Toxxupation posted:Okay found it. bobkatt013 posted:I read OML and I found it to be really good with amazing art. If you are reading his current book which is really good you should give it a try. If you like Morrisons New X-Men then you should give E is for Extinction a try. I read it and it was a fun miniseries/homage to Morrisons awesome run. I'll counterpoint these two and say both are right. E for extinction is super weird and the art is terrible but if you liked Morrison's run you will probably enjoy it.. Old Man Logan starts in his universe and gets tossed around the different parts of BattleWorld. Everything about Siege and Thors is perfect and the rest just read whatever looks fun. I wonder what the current status of the Phoenix is in MU. Did we ever see where he even got that egg?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 17:27
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:I read OML and I found it to be really good with amazing art. If you are reading his current book which is really good you should give it a try. If you like Morrisons New X-Men then you should give E is for Extinction a try. I read it and it was a fun miniseries/homage to Morrisons awesome run. He said he read E for Extinction and didn't like it. Anyway, of the SW minis I read, only Siege and Thors really fed into the main plot. There's some good ones in there, but few are what I'd call essential.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:He said he read E for Extinction and didn't like it. I didn't like OML either, but I didn't outright hate it like I did with E is for Extinction. OML I felt betrayed its own premise - fanfiction/continuation of an event/series with some Battleworld weirdness thrown in because everything's a little bit off - by immediately taking Logan out of his zone and ending up doing exactly the thing that made me dislike X-Books in the first place: have him go on a tour of everywhere else in the greater Marvel Universe. I just really liked the idea of Battleworld as this place where other zones were known about but unless you were a Thor you never went there nor even wanted to, not to mention weren't even allowed. The idea that Doom basically built a bunch of little biomes of Marvel continuity that were sort of connected to each other but not really made for a really interesting environment, and OML ends up betraying that whole idea in a really significant and, to me, ineffective way. Although that part where Logan meets She-Hulk's pretty loving sick.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
Secret Wars is very much like the original Age of Apocalypse or the Amalgam thing, a publisher/line wide experiment and then back to usual, but with more #1s.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:He said he read E for Extinction and didn't like it. There's few that were really essential but more of them were fun than were not.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 18:16
|
|
|
Old Man Logan and E For Extinction were my favorite tie-ins. Especially E and especially for the art! Also  I wish this Tsum Tsum thing was an actual crossover and not just covers.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
I'm glad it's just covers I'll never have to look at again because whatever it is it looks really dumb.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
X-O posted:it looks really dumb. Yeah! Imagine if everyone was forced to take time out to write an invasion of plush toys. It'd be incredible. e: An issue of that right in the middle of a deluxe complete Tom King Vision OHC. I wanna live in a world where that happened. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 21:55 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
Wanna see a big doughy Vision-blob having to deal with the fallout of his series so far. Bet you didn't think there'd be murder, did you, tsum-tsums?? Edit: Also what the person before me said. Just throw 'em in there, it'd be great. Parasol Prophet fucked around with this message at 21:58 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 21:54
|
|
|
Teenage Fansub posted:Old Man Logan and E For Extinction were my favorite tie-ins. Especially E and especially for the art!  I'm on board with this. Edit: Apparently there's a Tsum Tsum miniseries where they actually wind up in the Marvel universe coming down the pipe. I can't wait. Yvonmukluk fucked around with this message at 22:09 on May 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
I am very surprised how much I'm enjoying Gwenpool's book.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 22:09
|
|
|
So was Illuminati 7 the last issue in the series? I know it's been on the chopping block for a while, but at least when All-New Hawkeye ended, the author wrote an afterword. This one just has the last page say "The End" and then some concept art.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 22:19
|
|
|
IUG posted:So was Illuminati 7 the last issue in the series? I know it's been on the chopping block for a while, but at least when All-New Hawkeye ended, the author wrote an afterword. This one just has the last page say "The End" and then some concept art. Yup. Angela also ended on issue #7 with a big thank you afterword, but Illuminati seems like it's just ending on the concept art. Kinda sad, I get that it sold really badly but I still really liked what we got of it and was wondering if the writer/artist had anything to say.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 22:59
|
|
|
"It was The Hood or The Flash. See ya suckers!" - Joshua Williamson
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 23:01
|
|
|
So of the currently cancelled series (Howling Commandos, Illuminati, Angela Queen of Hel, Hercules, Red Wolf, and Weirdworld), what's worth reading? Did any of them actually end their stories? Any gems hidden amongst them that got cancelled or do they all suck?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 23:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 08:13 |
|
|
I know Weirdworld looks amazing.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2016 23:07
|
|