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Your show's not very good and nobody watches it, I'm a huge prick. - Ike I removed the probable misogynist comment.
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May 17, 2016 22:20
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Toxxupation posted:That is the single most whiny and self-entitled speech I've ever seen. And it ignores the inherent appeal of different stories in a shared universe, namely that they're different stories. Like even in the real actual 616, where there's no limitations on having to hire human beings to play characters and basically everyone can show up in everyone else's book whenever, you're not constantly seeing Squirrel Girl call on the New Avengers, the team she's currently a part of, just to hang out because it would just crowd out her own story. Like that's the whole bit of different names and lines- sure it's all part of the same universe and during crossovers and events they'll all come together but beyond that they stay part of their own spheres. The problem with this line is that AoS is not telling a very self contained story, especially this season (and some of last.) An outbreak of Inhumans nationwide, a returned HYDRA God threatening world destruction, and hell, the broad daylight kidnapping of a powered person in NYC by HYDRA, where they also fired upon the NYPD, is, in the scope of the MCU, kind of big. Secret ninjas plaguing a single Manhattan neighborhood or a single precinct plagued by a single mind controller are much more contained, so it makes sense that the movies could ignore these stories. So AOS is trying to tell these huge stories, stories that should in every sensible way be shaping the status quo of the shared universe, but the movies are like, "nah." Hell even the other Netflix shows are like "nah, gently caress your Inhuman outbreak and SHIELD vs. Hydra hijinks." At least for now. I guess we will see if even Marvel TV cares about SHIELD during Luke Cage.
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May 17, 2016 22:20
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Full interview
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May 17, 2016 22:27
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Additionally, Kevin Feige apparently already provided an answer a month ago. The movies are written and shot too far in advance of the TV show. Hive and the Inhuman outbreak was not on paper when Civil War was being written. Edit: I guess it raises the question as to why the show, at the very least, SHIELD, couldn't be written further in advance, as opposed to a more traditional schedule (which clearly prohibits cooperation between TV and Movies). Thinking further, you run the risk of trying to synergize a 250 million dollar movie with episodes of a show that are neither filmed nor even guaranteed to air. The nature of broadcast TV basically make it impossible. The Netflix shows would honestly have a better shot, and even that would require a logistical change behind the scenes. ToastyPotato fucked around with this message at 22:36 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 22:30
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ToastyPotato posted:Additionally, Kevin Feige apparently already provided an answer a month ago. Because when they try to write their show around the films, the films pretty much ignore them and even contradict what AoS says happened. Because nobody at Marvel Studios gives a poo poo about AoS nor will they ever.
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May 17, 2016 22:36
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Someone posted a story in the comic book movie thread discussing this and part of the problem is this weird rivalry between the movie and show divisions. Ike Perlmutter was pointed to as the locus. I have sympathy for AOS, honestly. It isn't fair to the creatives that there's supposedly a shared universe but then no one acknowledges you. Of course there are poo poo tons of logistical problems with all of that but that's a pretty sorry excuse not to at least acknowledge what's going on. "But it's too haaaaard" isn't a good defense for anything. If they wanted to do it right then they would make the tv shows more subservient to the movies. The shows are infinitely more flexible so let them be flexible.
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May 17, 2016 22:53
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HIJK posted:
That's the current situation. And no, a five-minute sequence every Avengers movie where Tony calls up Agent Coulson just to know what he's up to sounds worse than just pretending it more or less doesn't exist. It sounds like the strange contortions the current MCU goes through to acknowledge China except infinitely worse.
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May 17, 2016 23:37
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I swear it would've made so much sense to throw Fitz & Simmons in the background of the helicarrier scene in Age of Ultron
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May 17, 2016 23:44
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Like honestly integrating them directly into the MCU would marginalize them worse than they are now. I guarantee that if they were directly referential to the MCU or were restricted by its strict canon there'd be no Kree, no Inhumans, basically no larger-scale threats because why the hell would you blow your load on concepts like that in a TV show most of your audience doesn't watch? Making them a direct extension of the MCU would put into even further context how massively unimportant everyone involved in the show is because they'd basically be glorified cameos that would look even less effectual in direct comparison to the MCU heroes, due to screentime and comparative powers. And even assuming the logistical impossibility that Chris Evans et al would suddenly deign to be in the AoS movie, what would end up happening would be that Captain America would just suddenly show up and be the biggest deal ever until he left, crowding out the ostensible stars on their own show. It's like what the comedy/outside edge Marvel Universe books are at. Squirrel Girl is best buds with Galactus and beat up Doom by drowning him in both squirrels and girls, and Howard the Duck became a canonical herald, because although they're in-canon they don't have the name Iron Man or Thor or Spider-Man on the cover of their books. It gives writers like Chip Zdarsky and Ryan North the freedom to address concepts and characters in ways they want, and it's all technically canon so people who care knows that it happened, but it's safely ignorable when the next big event series happens and Galactus is The Main Big Bad Guy the Marvel Universe has to figure out a way to combat. Because even though he was beaten by a girl who wore a fake headband with squirrel ears on it, and canonically speaking it happened, it doesn't take away his power or his capabilities. Chip Zdarsky isn't honestly arguing that the latest issue of the Ultimates should acknowledge that Galactus the Lifebringer is besties with Doreen Green, because that's stupid. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 00:01 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 23:57
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Comic books don't work like TV and movies at all and trying to compare how the two mediums handle continuity is a bad idea. Even worse, Comics are notorious for not even sticking with their own continuity, even when things were meant to be canon, mostly because of the sheer amount of writers and sheer number of stories that are being told at the same time. None of the problems facing the continuity of the MCU are the same ones facing comic book writers. At least not the problems preventing AOS from being a proper part of the MCU. Also, as Kevin Feige himself stated, the main issue with TV/Movie crossover is that the film scripts are finalized way before the TV scripts are. The only way it would work would be for Kevin Feige himself to be running AOS (which let's face it would probably be an improvement anyway), that way he could personally manage the continuity and know where the show was headed before it was headed there, just as he knows where the movies are headed. But since the corporate atmosphere at Marvel was a now well documented cluster gently caress, cooperation didn't happen, and for as long as Marvel TV continues to be run by people other than Marvel Studios, it will almost definitely stay that way.
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May 18, 2016 00:20
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I think it's been about a year since we heard anything about the Wicked + Divine TV show. Does that mean it is dead? Has anyone been hired to work on it?
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May 18, 2016 01:05
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Toxxupation posted:That's the current situation. And no, a five-minute sequence every Avengers movie where Tony calls up Agent Coulson just to know what he's up to sounds worse than just pretending it more or less doesn't exist. It sounds like the strange contortions the current MCU goes through to acknowledge China except infinitely worse. Not really, the spin off shows can clearly come up with their own stuff and have no impact at all on the fictional universe at large, they barely have headnods to the movie as far as I can tell. They're pulling some stuff from the movie material but otherwise AoS is the vehicle to develop the prototype Inhumans which none of the movies have mentioned yet. And why would I want Tony to call up Agent Coulson every Avengers movie? That's dumb. I probably phrased it all wrong. I think that AoS doesn't need to dictate the direction of the MCU but going the extra mile to get it tied into the movie universe and having some in-movie acknowledgement would be better overall. Basically: quote:The only way it would work would be for Kevin Feige himself to be running AOS (which let's face it would probably be an improvement anyway), that way he could personally manage the continuity and know where the show was headed before it was headed there, just as he knows where the movies are headed. They would have to put a lot more thought and planning into than they currently do.
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May 18, 2016 01:24
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AMC put up the first few minutes of the Preacher pilot. During the first 30 seconds I had to double check and make sure I wasn't watching 3rd Rock From the Sun.
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May 18, 2016 01:26
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StumblyWumbly posted:I think it's been about a year since we heard anything about the Wicked + Divine TV show. Does that mean it is dead? Has anyone been hired to work on it? Last I heard from an interview in October, the're still working on it in theory but yeah I'm not really getting the feeling "This is a surefire thing that is happening on a specific timetable" quote:On their involvement with the "The Wicked + The Divine" TV show: http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/cbr-tv-gillen-mckelvie-wilson-make-magic-with-the-wicked-plus-the-divine-phonogram/view=all burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 01:44 on May 18, 2016 |
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May 18, 2016 01:41
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There are thousands of things optioned for TV every year. Unless you hear they're shooting a pilot for a specific network it's best to just assume that it's not happening.
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May 18, 2016 01:44
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This week's Gotham introduced Clayface and teased a mysterious organization that is funding Hugo Strange's efforts at Gotham who wear big masks that cover most of their faces.
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May 18, 2016 02:07
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As for interconnectivity between AoS and the movies, I found that that was one of the most annoying things about season 1 and what made me drop the show. What I mean is that the first 6 or so episodes of season 1 just seem to be dragging their wheels doing poo poo all waiting for Cap. America: WS to come out so it could finally tell the story it wanted to tell, making everything before it seem pointless. I never went back to watching AoS but I figured it taking place in it's own little pocket was for the best, instead of it wasting episodes with nothingness waiting for the latest Marvel movie to open up.
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May 18, 2016 02:45
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Rhyno posted:As previously stated, Quantico stars the most beautiful woman on the planet so that doesn't hurt. Hayley Atwell isn't on Quantico.
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May 18, 2016 02:51
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Madkal posted:As for interconnectivity between AoS and the movies, I found that that was one of the most annoying things about season 1 and what made me drop the show. What I mean is that the first 6 or so episodes of season 1 just seem to be dragging their wheels doing poo poo all waiting for Cap. America: WS to come out so it could finally tell the story it wanted to tell, making everything before it seem pointless. I never went back to watching AoS but I figured it taking place in it's own little pocket was for the best, instead of it wasting episodes with nothingness waiting for the latest Marvel movie to open up. It's 16 episodes. 16.
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May 18, 2016 03:18
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Vision shows up out of nowhere in the first five minutes of the season finale, burns Hive into ash, and flies off. Chloe and Daisy are both out a job. "Why didn't Cap call the Avengers in Winter Soldier/Stark call them in IM3?" Because it's comics.
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May 18, 2016 04:20
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Madkal posted:As for interconnectivity between AoS and the movies, I found that that was one of the most annoying things about season 1 and what made me drop the show. What I mean is that the first 6 or so episodes of season 1 just seem to be dragging their wheels doing poo poo all waiting for Cap. America: WS to come out so it could finally tell the story it wanted to tell, making everything before it seem pointless. I never went back to watching AoS but I figured it taking place in it's own little pocket was for the best, instead of it wasting episodes with nothingness waiting for the latest Marvel movie to open up. Those first 16 episodes sucked for pretty much the same reason AoS probably will never connect to the movie again. There is a significant rift between the people who do TV and Marvel Studios, and back then Marvel Entertainment was still trying to meddle with the direction of the films. See the recent Shane Black interview where he talks about how Marvel Entertainment vetoed a female villain for Iron Man 3 as the latest edition of people associated with Marvel Studios throwing shade at Permlutter and Marvel Entertainment. AoS finale was actually really good. The show really is at its best when its focused more narrowly and not trying to be as big as a movie. If every episode had been like the finale, it'd be one of the best tv shows around, in general.
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May 18, 2016 04:27
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After the past couple weeks of TV, I pretty much definitively feel that killing off characters is a really lazy, overused way to write shows. Even when it's done really well, at this point you just can't get past how overused and exhausted it is as a process. (which sucks, because there are instances of it being done really well) Find a new obsession, writers. If everyone's doing it, you're not being the radical shocking trendsetters anymore. It's part of why I like Supergirl. At this point it's shocking and unconventional if no one dies.
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May 18, 2016 04:29
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BrianWilly posted:After the past couple weeks of TV, I pretty much definitively feel that killing off characters is a really lazy, overused way to write shows. Even when it's done really well, at this point you just can't get past how overused and exhausted it is as a process. (which sucks, because there are instances of it being done really well) Completely agree. I kind of feel the same way about movies too. Especially movie "series".
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May 18, 2016 04:31
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BrianWilly posted:After the past couple weeks of TV, I pretty much definitively feel that killing off characters is a really lazy, overused way to write shows. Even when it's done really well, at this point you just can't get past how overused and exhausted it is as a process. (which sucks, because there are instances of it being done really well) Supergirl had Kara's sister kill her aunt.
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May 18, 2016 04:32
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I just watched last week's AoS and they beat the audience over the head with the "LOOK HOW CONNECTED WE ARE" bullshit by bringing up the Sokovia Accords.
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May 18, 2016 04:35
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TV shows kill off characters because single season recurring characters are a common thing and sometimes that card has to be removed from the deck for future stories. Though the two tonight don't really fall under that.
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May 18, 2016 04:45
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bobkatt013 posted:Supergirl had Kara's sister kill her aunt. More pertinently, the reason that worked was because no one actually expected it at that point. Look at the Flash thread today and a lot of it just people going "Well, I guess Barry's dad is gonna die!" which just speaks to how telegraphed and hackneyed it was. With Agents of SHIELD today, like, no one can argue that it was done really well, but you just can't get beyond the idea that it was just another blip on the radar after week after week after week of death scenes and countdown bombs and final words and err'body cryin' and so on and so forth. It's really as if these writers have run out of ideas about how to do actual stakes. And let's be honest, most of this is the CW show writers' faults.  Literally every one of their shows has pulled a SHOCKING TRAGIC DEATH!!!1 in recent memory.
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May 18, 2016 04:49
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Rhyno posted:I just watched last week's AoS and they beat the audience over the head with the "LOOK HOW CONNECTED WE ARE" bullshit by bringing up the Sokovia Accords. It was even worse because they made the Sokovia Accords about registering powered people with the US government, which it basically had gently caress all to do with in the movie. It was about giving the UN control over the Avengers. I mean I guess it is sort of cool that they wanted to make the show be more like the comics, but it is again one of those things that they literally have no power to ever deliver on. It will be interesting to see if Luke Cage ignores the AoS interpretation or not.
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May 18, 2016 04:52
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ToastyPotato posted:It was even worse because they made the Sokovia Accords about registering powered people with the US government, which it basically had gently caress all to do with in the movie. It was about giving the UN control over the Avengers. I mean I guess it is sort of cool that they wanted to make the show be more like the comics, but it is again one of those things that they literally have no power to ever deliver on. It will be interesting to see if Luke Cage ignores the AoS interpretation or not. I did chuckle at AoS completely ignoring what the SA were in the film and just rolling as if it was the SHRA from the comics.
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May 18, 2016 05:18
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ToastyPotato posted:It was even worse because they made the Sokovia Accords about registering powered people with the US government, which it basically had gently caress all to do with in the movie. It was about giving the UN control over the Avengers. I mean I guess it is sort of cool that they wanted to make the show be more like the comics, but it is again one of those things that they literally have no power to ever deliver on. It will be interesting to see if Luke Cage ignores the AoS interpretation or not. I don't even watch AoS but I heard of this and just kept wondering what the heck's going on there, as you said it doesn't match at all with the SA, and SHIELD just being gone is a pretty big part of the Cap movies and why Tony is so involved, makes me just want to be a jerk whenever AoS is brought up and say that the show's not canon.
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May 18, 2016 05:30
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lol if you think it's inconceivable that the Accords contain more than the stuff relating to the Avengers themselves. They all have public identities besides Spidey/Ant-Man, registration would never come up. Either use your head to connect the dots yourself to make it work or don't and treat it as an alternate universe loosely inspired by the MCU or something. I think the series is good enough to stand on its own anyway.
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May 18, 2016 05:32
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Dexo posted:lol if you think it's inconceivable that the Accords contain more than the stuff relating to the Avengers themselves. They all have public identities besides Spidey/Ant-Man, registration would never come up. I could do the work and connect the dots in my head, but at that point I would be putting more effort in trying to make AoS canon than the writers or producers of either the show or the movies
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May 18, 2016 05:37
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My girlfriend and I couldn't stop giggling at this week's Flash calling the events the METAlocolypse. All I could think about was how awesome it would be Nathan Explosion showed up.
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May 18, 2016 06:21
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I feel like people getting hung up on the connectedness of AoS to the rest of the MCU is something that happened a lot in early season one when nothing much was really happening, but which they've never quite been able to completely get over. It's sort of like the Star Wars EU - the stories coming out now aren't especially better (or worse, I hasten to add) than what came out between 1990 or so and 2014, but the fact that they're now "officially canon" seems to be enough in and of itself to make a lot of people willing to overlook that.
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May 18, 2016 09:48
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Rhyno posted:I did chuckle at AoS completely ignoring what the SA were in the film and just rolling as if it was the SHRA from the comics. If I'm not completely mis-remembering, the title page of the accords does say something along the lines of registration.
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May 18, 2016 12:19
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Atwell's new show looks god-awful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJqg6J4JeLg Not that I wanted another season of Agent Carter.
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May 18, 2016 12:35
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So my girlfriend and I watch streaming TV like it's normal TV. We have specific days per week where we watch something. Which has honestly been really awesome. We don't tire of shows as easily or get bogged down. And its' nice to look forward to Daredevil every Tuesday or the Path every Wednesday. But man oh man does that make the line at the end of the last episode we watched where Foggy goes "The People vs Franke Castle starts next week!" sound super corny and amazing. It probably doesn't feel that way when you watch it all together, but it definitely felt like "Tune in next week!" Also I'm tired of this ______ of __________ poo poo for superheroes. It's not the Devil's of Hell's Kitchen or the Bat of Gotham. It's Daredevil and Batman. That's what they're called. And part of the reason we call them that is because those are catchy names.
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May 18, 2016 14:04
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howe_sam posted:If I'm not completely mis-remembering, the title page of the accords does say something along the lines of registration. Ain't nobody got time to READ during a movie.
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May 18, 2016 14:47
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The front page of the 100-page epic "The Sokovia Accords" says "Framework for the Registration and Deployment of Enhanced Individuals" so y'all can stop complaining about this specific thing
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May 18, 2016 17:05
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There's so much more that's bad about the season anyway.
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May 18, 2016 17:10
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