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oh dope
Nov 2, 2006

No guilt, it feeds in plain sight
In slither.io there's a style of playing where you just use your super speed ALL THE TIME and the area you can see isn't very big and making sudden sharp turns is not always an option. I keep running into them and they're just really loving rude.

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The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Ammanas posted:

I dont know if they had more planned for the open world segment, but it very much feels like they release 85% of the game. There was meant to be another zone with a climactic battle but that got cut for time.

"drat our nuclear death robot got stolen by a 12 year old oh well what are you gonna do lol"

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Games where you can send troops to do things and they'll suffer casualties because you're not micromanaging them. For example:

Phlegmish posted:

In Warband, if you don't personally fight alongside your troops in every single battle they will find a way to incur massive casualties, even when they're 100 elite troops fighting a single Peasant Woman.

Or Peace Walker, where people will just go and take a lovely pistol out on missions instead of something like a rocket launcher or assault rifle.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

RareAcumen posted:

Games where you can send troops to do things and they'll suffer casualties because you're not micromanaging them. For example:


Or Peace Walker, where people will just go and take a lovely pistol out on missions instead of something like a rocket launcher or assault rifle.

Or Phantom Pain where you can't ever get a 100% safe rate on your missions so you can send the maximum team of the highest ranked best soldiers ever and they'll lose against someone they had a 97% success rate against and every single one of them has a good chance to die or get injured because gently caress you. Oh and the missions take like two in-game hours to do as well.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax
That reminds me of Evil Genius, where the entire source of income and discovery was built about a lovely map game that was effectively a meat grinder for your minions that took a bunch of real time to process.

Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion

Guy Mann posted:

That reminds me of Evil Genius, where the entire source of income and discovery was built about a lovely map game that was effectively a meat grinder for your minions that took a bunch of real time to process.

Yeah and the game made absolutely no indication whether you lost troops or whatever until you remembered to check it. For such a huge component of building your evil empire it was really badly implemented.

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost

Guy Mann posted:

That reminds me of Evil Genius, where the entire source of income and discovery was built about a lovely map game that was effectively a meat grinder for your minions that took a bunch of real time to process.

Also the local area map felt like it wasn't actually designed to allow for you to build cool stuff. Like, I was basically fighting the map layout the entire game. There's not enough goddamn room, and there's always a wall or water or something in the loving way.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax

Somfin posted:

Also the local area map felt like it wasn't actually designed to allow for you to build cool stuff. Like, I was basically fighting the map layout the entire game. There's not enough goddamn room, and there's always a wall or water or something in the loving way.

People ruining cool games because they were afraid of them being too easy is basically every major flawed game up until this decade.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Guy Mann posted:

People ruining cool games because they were afraid of them being too easy is basically every major flawed game up until this decade.

Like when they patched out the gun customization bug in Phantom Pain. Sure it was a bug but it was way, way more fun than the in-game customization system. Being able to make hilarious rocket launchers that put people to sleep was the best and if that had been the base game's system I would have bought the game just for that. But overall the bug was harmless, some people complained about people using hosed up weapons in the already hilariously unbalanced mother base defense poo poo, but at the same time they did literally nothing about the people who were hacking the game to be immortal and get instant kills in that either.

Somfin
Oct 25, 2010

In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.

Nap Ghost

Guy Mann posted:

People ruining cool games because they were afraid of them being too easy is basically every major flawed game up until this decade.

If we could get game designers to stop mistaking "frustrating" for "difficult", that would fix this problem pretty handily.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

Somfin posted:

If we could get game designers to stop mistaking "frustrating" for "difficult", that would fix this problem pretty handily.

See the PoP mod for Mount and Blade. Lot of interesting concepts, too bad its stuck behind the creator being a fuckhead and deciding that putting higher numbers in troops.txt so everything can one shot you even with the best armor and stats was a good idea, on top of spawning armies that can number over a thousand that you have to fight to win. Oh and said armies don't have caps, so they can snowball to say... over 4 thousand troops. Also these same armies can be hired by each faction's king and they also share the snowballing issue where they suck up every prisoner they come across.

And yeah, the dispatch thing for MGS5 bites. It says 5% loss rate, does that mean I have a 5% chance to lose someone? Is that rolled for every soldier? Or is it a flat "You're going to lose 5% of your deployed troops"? It feels like the latter, which is dumb because at the start its needlessly punishing and at the end game its completely pointless as you'll find plenty of A++ and S rank soldiers wandering the field.

E: And to pile on MGS5: I cannot find an alternate outfit for Quiet that isn't her XOF uniform. Can modders really not just throw olive drab onto her?

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Leal posted:

E: And to pile on MGS5: I cannot find an alternate outfit for Quiet that isn't her XOF uniform. Can modders really not just throw olive drab onto her?
No, they're too busy making her naked even though like 99% of modders literally do not know what nipples look like or where they are positioned.

Seriously though, the only ones I've found where straight up character replacers that turned her into the skull sniper, or ocelot or even the dog. She does have the Sniper Wolf costume in-game though if that's your thing.

Tiggum
Oct 24, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.


Guy Mann posted:

Evil Genius

That game was so close to being great, but just missed the mark in so many small ways. Plus I never managed to finish it because of bugs that made key objectives just never register as complete.

Gitro
May 29, 2013

hirvox posted:

Mission 10? You need to have a well-staffed medical team to save Malak. Fortunately, you can always replay the mission.

Content:
Colony ships in Stellaris that are built in shipyards that are in sector-controlled systems are not shown in the list of civilian ships, unlike science ships and constructors. You either have to go to the prospective colony planet and give the colonize command there or find the system where you built the colony ship.

Also, upgrading a large fleet seems to take a ridiculously long time. You can speed things up by splitting the fleet and telling them to go get refitted in different shipyards. By the time everything is refitted and the fleet is back together, you get to do it again because you got an another upgrade.

I've also lost an entire fleet because the war ended when that fleet was in hyperspace. Fleets left behind in enemy territory find their way back to friendly space eventually, but not this one. The fleet remained halfway between two systems and wouldn't respond to any commands.

The game really needs a MoO2 style colonisation interface or something. I've got 40 planets sprawled across a quarter of the galaxy. I've just gained a race that can colonise tropical worlds. Where is the planet I want to colonise? Is it here? Let me click into the system and check, because while the game has a handy icon showing if there are habitable planets and whether you can colonise them you don't actually get an empire or galaxy wide breakdown and you don't get told sizes until you zoom in and click on the thing.

On the things that do have the go-to feature the game insists on dumping you into system view. I like the galaxy map, I play half the game on the galaxy map and when I'm trying to see what system these pre-sentients are in it doesn't actually help when you zoom me in. I still have to zoom out so I can see whether they're prohibitively far away, or possibly in someone else's borders.

I had a system with two spaceports so I split my fleet in half for upgrades. Nope, despite being in orbit of a station half the fleet absolutely insisted they had to fly over to the other and wait their turn. At least it's easy to mod down upgrade time, I halved it and it still takes ages.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Digirat posted:

Play wario land 4 instead, it's awesome

Nuebot posted:

What dragged down wario land 3 and 4 for me is that they weren't as totally rad as wario land 2. Wario Land 2 is the best Wario game.
I agree with both of you. I played first WL2 and then WL4 to death but had never touched 3, and wanted to rectify that by getting it on virtual console recently. Well, word of advice to anyone also wondering: don't.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


The fact Dino Crisis 3 was so awful it murdered the series and I'll never get a fun dinosaur murder simulator again.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


I saw a video on Uncharted 4 on how the developers made the game accessible to gamers with disabilities who might otherwise have been left out, and that made me really hate The Witness.

Are you in anyway colour-blind? gently caress YOU.

Do you find it difficult to differentiate the pitch between sound-effects? gently caress YOU.

Do you lack the reflexes to complete a difficult puzzle in 4.5 seconds? gently caress YOU.

It doesn't matter if these are puzzles you can skip, you're losing out not because you're not flexing your intellect, but because you physically can't solve the puzzle yourself without outside help.

Post poste
Mar 29, 2010
To continue on that theme, closed captions that get progressively more useless as the game progresses.

Saints Row IV/GooH was terrible for this, as the captions refused to match the script at all, at the end even including stage directions , minor dialog wasn't captioned, and no way to easily tell characters apart.

DOOM 2016 was better about it, but the reigning champion is still the Half Life 2 series, with full closed captions, colored texts for characters and barely any typos.

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

Nuebot posted:

No, they're too busy making her naked even though like 99% of modders literally do not know what nipples look like or where they are positioned.

Seriously though, the only ones I've found where straight up character replacers that turned her into the skull sniper, or ocelot or even the dog. She does have the Sniper Wolf costume in-game though if that's your thing.

i wish there was dlc skins for all the buddies. the End's leaf camo for Quiet, a Blade Wolf skin for DDog to go with the Raiden skin, and a Metal Gear Rex chassis for DWalker.

i wouldn't mind the dispatch missions with the poo poo success rates if they could progress when i wasn't playing the game. i'm not too worried about losing top tier soldiers; i just hate having to idle to get that one emblem part or blueprint i'm missing from the dispatch missions.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Post poste posted:

To continue on that theme, closed captions that get progressively more useless as the game progresses.

Saints Row IV/GooH was terrible for this, as the captions refused to match the script at all, at the end even including stage directions , minor dialog wasn't captioned, and no way to easily tell characters apart.

DOOM 2016 was better about it, but the reigning champion is still the Half Life 2 series, with full closed captions, colored texts for characters and barely any typos.

Portal was terrible on the other hand, because most of the dialogue is jokes and the subtitles were just thrown up on the screen with no consideration for comic timing.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 4 days!
I know I shouldn't say this. And I apologize preemptively for the pain this will cause when the derail inevitably starts. But Dark Souls 3, at least early on, is really painfully poo poo if you're a sorceror.

I always play a sorceror first, and both the previous games have been fairly well-balanced for that. Sorcerors can have a lot more trouble with areas like the Duke's Archives in 1 for both enemy and level design reasons, but even when they're having the most trouble they're never completely hosed.

They are, however, completely hosed in 3's Catacombs of Carthus. Good luck, squishy mages, in fighting enemies that can outrun your spells, will throw liberal amounts of extremely dangerous throwing knives faster than you can avoid them (and way faster than you can counterattack), that can completely dominate the tightly-packed halls in which they live where it is utterly impossible to get any positional advantage or even breathing room, that is also tightly packed with enemies that are hard to notice at the best of times, let alone when you're trying to back away into safety, when sorcery at your level provides absolutely no means to deal with crowds. Oh yeah, and these fast, lethal enemies are also burly as poo poo, so you're gonna need to land at least four of your best shots. Aaaaaand there's about six of them scattered around the area.

There is only so gud I can git when the deck is that stacked against me.

RyokoTK
Feb 12, 2012

I am cool.
Pure spellcasting in Dark Souls 3 is really bad, yeah. The balance of DS3 in general is pretty poor, at least relative to DS2.

You can do well as a spellcaster if you pack around a raw-infused weapon and shield for when baddies get in your face, but the more you sword and board the more it seems like you're betraying your origin.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax

Inspector Gesicht posted:

I saw a video on Uncharted 4 on how the developers made the game accessible to gamers with disabilities who might otherwise have been left out, and that made me really hate The Witness.

Are you in anyway colour-blind? gently caress YOU.

Do you find it difficult to differentiate the pitch between sound-effects? gently caress YOU.

Do you lack the reflexes to complete a difficult puzzle in 4.5 seconds? gently caress YOU.

It doesn't matter if these are puzzles you can skip, you're losing out not because you're not flexing your intellect, but because you physically can't solve the puzzle yourself without outside help.

I can see how a cover shooter with very basic core gameplay can be a lot easier to make accessible than an obtuse puzzle game with a bunch of esoteric mechanics built entirely around colors, patterns, and sounds. Sucks to be you but for everyone else that's exactly what makes the puzzles so unique and fun.

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

Inspector Gesicht posted:

I saw a video on Uncharted 4 on how the developers made the game accessible to gamers with disabilities who might otherwise have been left out, and that made me really hate The Witness.

Are you in anyway colour-blind? gently caress YOU.

Do you find it difficult to differentiate the pitch between sound-effects? gently caress YOU.

Do you lack the reflexes to complete a difficult puzzle in 4.5 seconds? gently caress YOU.

It doesn't matter if these are puzzles you can skip, you're losing out not because you're not flexing your intellect, but because you physically can't solve the puzzle yourself without outside help.

i don't think game devs intend to exclude players when they design games. they probably had a really cool idea and made a game out of it and overlooked stuff like that (that last one sounds like rear end, though).

Cleretic posted:

I always play a sorceror first, and both the previous games have been fairly well-balanced for that. Sorcerors can have a lot more trouble with areas like the Duke's Archives in 1 for both enemy and level design reasons, but even when they're having the most trouble they're never completely hosed.

They are, however, completely hosed in 3's Catacombs of Carthus. Good luck, squishy mages, in fighting enemies that can outrun your spells, will throw liberal amounts of extremely dangerous throwing knives faster than you can avoid them (and way faster than you can counterattack), that can completely dominate the tightly-packed halls in which they live where it is utterly impossible to get any positional advantage or even breathing room, that is also tightly packed with enemies that are hard to notice at the best of times, let alone when you're trying to back away into safety, when sorcery at your level provides absolutely no means to deal with crowds. Oh yeah, and these fast, lethal enemies are also burly as poo poo, so you're gonna need to land at least four of your best shots. Aaaaaand there's about six of them scattered around the area.

There is only so gud I can git when the deck is that stacked against me.

i've always considered magic to be a tool in your belt, like arrows and temporary weapon buffs in these games. are you entirely relying on spells or do you have int scaling weapons for close combat?

those fast skeletons are the toughest enemies in the area and they take off a chunk of stamina if you try to block their strikes.

Cleretic posted:

I know I shouldn't say this. And I apologize preemptively for the pain this will cause when the derail inevitably starts. But Dark Souls 3, at least early on, is really painfully poo poo if you're a sorceror.

dude, whatever. not everyone's gonna like what shows up here. v:shobon:v

Tunahead
Mar 26, 2010

The awesome single player of DOOM 2016 is extremely fast paced. Except when you retry rune challenges. Then the game grinds to a halt, as you go through the following:

1) Choose the Retry option from the challenge menu.
2) Wait for the challenge to reload.
3) You arrive at a black screen featuring only the words "Press Space". Do so.
4) Wait a full second even though there was literally a loading screen just before you arrived at a black screen that only says "Press Space".
5) Select Start Challenge from the OTHER challenge menu that now appears.
6) Finally, there's a countdown so you know what you're getting into.
7) Wait for human cloning to be legalized so the person who designed this process can literally go gently caress himself. (Optional.)

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
The loading times in general on PS4 games really put me off playing them. Fallout 4 takes almost as long to load the intro as the intro itself lasts. Doom is great fun but when I die it takes several seconds to even load the "load from last checkpoint" screen. I don't get how loading times on consoles have actually gotten worse over the years.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

Speaking of DOOM, while it's overall pretty drat fantastic, I do find it a bit annoying how the later weapons use the same ammo as some of the earlier ones, and as such kind of obsolete them. Particularly in combination with the limited upgrade points. So you put a bunch of upgrades into the combat shotgun early on, only to later on find the super shotgun, which is a superior way of using the shotgun ammo about 90% of the time. It's similar with the plasma and gauss rifles (though they're at least a bit more distinct from each other), and from the looks of it it'll probably also be similar with the chaingun vs. the heavy assault rifle.

Dewgy
Nov 10, 2005

~🚚special delivery~📦

Perestroika posted:

Speaking of DOOM, while it's overall pretty drat fantastic, I do find it a bit annoying how the later weapons use the same ammo as some of the earlier ones, and as such kind of obsolete them. Particularly in combination with the limited upgrade points. So you put a bunch of upgrades into the combat shotgun early on, only to later on find the super shotgun, which is a superior way of using the shotgun ammo about 90% of the time. It's similar with the plasma and gauss rifles (though they're at least a bit more distinct from each other), and from the looks of it it'll probably also be similar with the chaingun vs. the heavy assault rifle.

I never really ran into this problem myself. Shotgun/SSG is a great example, the SSG usually gibs on kill and has no secondary fire, so I found myself using it less than the normal one with the grenade launcher. I thought they did a pretty good job of making nothing totally obsolete when you grab a new gun, it's just more toys to play with.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax

Action Tortoise posted:

i don't think game devs intend to exclude players when they design games. they probably had a really cool idea and made a game out of it and overlooked stuff like that (that last one sounds like rear end, though).

Also The Witness was made by one guy over the course of like half a decade. It's a lot easier to dedicate time and resources on accessibility features when you've got a massive AAA development team backed by the money and resources of one of the largest entertainment corporations on earth.

HMS Boromir
Jul 16, 2011

by Lowtax
The Witness was made by like ten people even ignoring the eight (contractors, I assume) that they list as additional contributors on their website. That's not a very big team but the game wasn't just slowly secreted by Jonathan Blow over 7 years.

ArtIsResistance
May 19, 2007

QUEEN OF FRANCE, SAVIOR OF LOWTAX
If every one of those eighteen people had a disability then they still wouldn't be able to account for all the different accessibility issues someone could have, because they'd be disabled and unable to make videogames very well

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

HMS Boromir posted:

The Witness was made by like ten people even ignoring the eight (contractors, I assume) that they list as additional contributors on their website. That's not a very big team but the game wasn't just slowly secreted by Jonathan Blow over 7 years.
http://gameaccessibilityguidelines.com/full-list

just googled it on a whim and found a whole site dedicated to fostering game accessibility. it's great when big budget titles put time into this kind of stuff and i hope it's standard practice now for most companies. that said, i can understand a small indie team not having the time or resources to add this to their pipeline.

HMS Boromir
Jul 16, 2011

by Lowtax
I'm not sure why you quoted me for that but thank you for that link! It's extremely my poo poo.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Cleretic posted:

I know I shouldn't say this. And I apologize preemptively for the pain this will cause when the derail inevitably starts. But Dark Souls 3, at least early on, is really painfully poo poo if you're a sorceror.

I always play a sorceror first, and both the previous games have been fairly well-balanced for that. Sorcerors can have a lot more trouble with areas like the Duke's Archives in 1 for both enemy and level design reasons, but even when they're having the most trouble they're never completely hosed.

They are, however, completely hosed in 3's Catacombs of Carthus. Good luck, squishy mages, in fighting enemies that can outrun your spells, will throw liberal amounts of extremely dangerous throwing knives faster than you can avoid them (and way faster than you can counterattack), that can completely dominate the tightly-packed halls in which they live where it is utterly impossible to get any positional advantage or even breathing room, that is also tightly packed with enemies that are hard to notice at the best of times, let alone when you're trying to back away into safety, when sorcery at your level provides absolutely no means to deal with crowds. Oh yeah, and these fast, lethal enemies are also burly as poo poo, so you're gonna need to land at least four of your best shots. Aaaaaand there's about six of them scattered around the area.

There is only so gud I can git when the deck is that stacked against me.

Just use hidden body and it trivializes the entire area where you can shoot everything from complete safety as they get hit, charge forward two steps and then forget where you are. If you're still having problems with enemies not getting hit by projectiles you can use soul greatsword or farron flashsword. I had no trouble there as a sorcerer.

Dark souls 3 has huge balance problems to be sure and sorcerers have to deal with a really slow start, but catacombs of carthus is not part of that problem.

Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
I doubt the idea that disabled people would want to play Jonathan Blowhard's masterpiece ever entered his mind. Dude's such a pretentious gently caress.

ArtIsResistance
May 19, 2007

QUEEN OF FRANCE, SAVIOR OF LOWTAX

Alteisen posted:

I doubt the idea that disabled people would want to play Jonathan Blowhard's masterpiece ever entered his mind. Dude's such a pretentious gently caress.

Agreed the disabled would never dare to play a game that requires thought :rolleyes:

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax

ArtIsResistance posted:

Agreed the disabled would never dare to play a game that requires thought :rolleyes:

Agreed.

Triarii
Jun 14, 2003

I'm pretty sure some of those puzzles would've been impossible to make colorblind-friendly. And they're cool puzzles, so it would've been a loss for non-colorblind players if they were just removed. I think the game actually did the best thing it could to accommodate players with disabilities: you don't have to do all of the puzzles, and the game can be completed with only like 70% of them done.

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

Alteisen posted:

I doubt the idea that disabled people would want to play Jonathan Blowhard's masterpiece ever entered his mind. Dude's such a pretentious gently caress.

Soulja Boy has said all that needs to be said about Jonathan Blow's oeuvre.

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Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

ArtIsResistance posted:

Agreed the disabled would never dare to play a game that requires thought :rolleyes:

Not even remotely what I said.

Here's your :goonsay:

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