mr. stefan posted:

Willis is probably the lead example in some psychologists long term study on how the internet has curbed the occurrence of serial killers in the post-internet western world, if he'd been born 30 years earlier he'd have at least six dead co-eds in his yard by this point in his life

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Pavlov posted:

I'm particularly confused about why he decided that this specific comic was the one he needed to warn people about so badly. He's already had plenty of trauma and violence and even a big bit about college date-rape right? What made this one so special?

8-Bit Scholar posted:

It reenforces why trigger warnings are a bad idea. What qualifies them? Is suicide the only one? As you said, he's had violence, attempted rape...

It just seems needless. A story shouldn't require you to take yourself out of the narrative to warn you that something bad is going to happen. Imagine if you were watching a horror movie and the screen halted for the words to flashing a warning about violence before it resumed the bloody murdering abruptly..

I don't get it. I've had loved ones attempt suicide, reading a comic where it happens to another character does not trigger me. I can't help but feel like any person reading this ought to feel insulted, like we're somehow incapable of handling a "difficult" moment in this silly webcomic about college students loving.

dmboogie posted:

Horror movies DO have trigger warnings beforehand, though? The rating board exists for a reason, y'know.

It's all cool and good that it doesn't bother you, but different people react to reminders of trauma differently, especially when it's brought up in a sudden and unexpected context (i.e, "a silly webcomic about college students loving.")

dmboogie posted:

Horror movies DO have trigger warnings beforehand, though? The rating board exists for a reason, y'know.

It's all cool and good that it doesn't bother you, but different people react to reminders of trauma differently, especially when it's brought up in a sudden and unexpected context (i.e, "a silly webcomic about college students loving.")

Elysiume posted:

They have them at the beginning of the movie, not immediately before what's intended to be a significant moment.

8-Bit Scholar posted:

But that's not what I described, I'm talking about him inserting this warning right in the middle of the on-going story arc (Or for the movie example, interrupting the movie midway to insert a warning that a machete death was about to happen). If you were going to clue in the reader that there was going to be an attempted suicide, you could have foreshadowed it in some small way ahead of time. It's certainly not that jarring in the context of the comic, which makes it all the stranger that it remains. If you're going to be traumatized by a cartoon strip, that's unfortunate, but in attempting to cater to the hypothetical person who will experience extreme PTSD from a cartoon panel, the author has instead taken a scene that might have had a decent emotional impact (and was certainly intended to) and deflated it before it's even shown.

dmboogie posted:

That's fair. However, you were saying that "It reenforces why trigger warnings are a bad idea," which is absolutely not true. One instance of a good concept being handled poorly doesn't invalidate the entire concept.

Brought To You By posted:

List of people who are now screwed in Widdershins

• Sid
  
• O'malley
  
• Wolfe
  
• Ben
  
• The entire Barber clan
  
• The town itself
  
• The world too because why not?
  

8-Bit Scholar posted:

I still don't like them. For one, it ruins any chance of surprising anybody with a sudden twist in the narrative, depending on what you're attempting to do (content warnings are generally vague enough for this to be a non-issue, but trigger warnings tend to be about really specific things). For another, it's patronizing to the audience, as I said. It's like bowling with bumpers on, smoothing out the sharp edges of a table, that sort of thing. If you are not mature enough to handle adult content in a work of fiction, that's your trouble. I feel like giving kids an excuse to "opt-out" of reading stories based solely upon what content may appear within that story, it's sort of...devaluing literature and storytelling over the reader's individual feelings. How do you challenge your audience if you pull your punches? If somebody is really upset by depictions of racial injustice, should they be exempt from reading To Kill a Mockingbird? Do we need to tell people before a staging of Oedipus that this story contains self-mutilation, thus kicking the legs out of the shocking ending?

And for what? What is the benefit? Surely the people most likely to actually need a trigger warning are of an exceedingly small segment of the population, and would have their own accomodations towards the consumption of media that may trigger them.

Perry Normal posted:

I'll give Willis credit for not going with the obvious stereotype in today's comic. Among all his Christian strawmen, "super homophobe is secretly gay" would fit right in, but it looks like Becky's dad just used his secret weightlifting room for weightlifting and crying.

Pick posted:

Trigger warnings are helpful in some situations and if we trust artists then we need to let them experiment with what works in this sense.

Pick posted:

Trigger warnings are helpful in some situations and if we trust artists then we need to let them experiment with what works in this sense.

8-Bit Scholar posted:

I am skeptical of their helpfulness, but I'm fine with letting artists experiment with them as is their want. I've just yet to see an instance where they weren't obtrusive and patronizing, so I hope this experiment is short-lived and people learn to deal with grown-up content like actual grown-ups.

paradoxGentleman posted:

They are not helpful to you, you mean. Other people, including people who have experienced trauma, have found them helpful as to avoid to be reminded of unpleasant experiences, and that should be reason enough to be patient when you come across them.

Pick posted:

"Growing up" can also include developing a knowledge or yourself and what is and isn't right for you at a certain time. Content warnings can help people manage that. Or heck, maybe they are just "sensitive", but I've never seen a sensitive person actually be effectively "toughened up" by including an unannounced rape scene in Hamtaro or whatever.

"8-Bit Scholar posted:

I'm trans-sympathetic. Which means I feel sympathy that we allow mentally ill people to mutilate their bodies to sustain an unhealthy delusion.

8-Bit Scholar posted:

The post literally right before me is from someone who appreciates the content warning but I'm a whiny pissbaby who loudly speaks over survivors of trauma and assumes their opinions for them, and also doesn't understand that non-war trauma can legitimately give people PTSD

Perry Normal posted:

I'll give Willis credit for not going with the obvious stereotype in today's comic. Among all his Christian strawmen, "super homophobe is secretly gay" would fit right in, but it looks like Becky's dad just used his secret weightlifting room for weightlifting and crying.

8-Bit Scholar posted:

They are not helpful to me and I do not think they are helpful in general. If anything, they seem to be suggesting to trauma victims that they should not ever be expected to be come to terms with whatever bad thing happened to them. I think most everybody will or has encountered trauma in their lives, from a car crash to violent battery, assault or the tragic loss of a loved one. Tragedy is an integral element to human drama. I think it's also more than a little disrespectful to, say, veterans of war who suffer from PTSD episodes "triggered" by things like car engines or sudden loud noises. How did we function as a society before trigger warnings?


Your example is patently ridiculous, but having a sudden mood shift in children's entertainment isn't unusual. Don Bluth made a whole career over having sad and tragic things happen in kids stories, that people say "scarred them for life" as a joking hyperbole, but in actuality formed profound life lessons that they remember unto their adulthood. Content warnings are not the same as trigger warnings, either in execution or in intention. Content warnings serve as a casual "at-a-glance" service for consumers to determine whether a piece of entertainment is appropriate for children or adults. It's only come to lately that some people find it so troublesome to encounter subject matter they are not comfortable with that they feel they require a warning before they consume a piece of media, equivocating their discomfort to actual PTSD. If you are going to watch adult media, then you should be prepared to encounter adult content, either violence or sex or assault or tragedy. Insisting that everything with even remotely troubling content come with a specific warning label is silly.

Space-Bird posted:

Have you ever experienced anything truly awful in your life?

Android Blues posted:

Content warnings are very similar to trigger warnings in practise (I have adult friends who won't watch a movie with graphic sexual violence in it because it's too upsetting, and that's been their stance since long before "trigger warning" was a phrase people used) and I suspect the distinction you're drawing between the two is not very genuine if you stop and think about it for a second.