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Just be aware that the Warspite doesn't do well when uptiered and/or on open maps.
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May 31, 2016 17:23
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Blindeye posted:So, coming back to this game, are CVs fun to play/useful to drive? If so, US or IJN line? I enjoy them. As for whether US or IJN line: US carriers of a tier will always have better fighters, both quality and quantity, over an IJN carrier. Even an IJN carrier with air superiority loadout will lose to a US carrier. For doing damage, US carriers have better dive bombers, and in later tiers dive bombers will do most of your damage. IJN carriers have better torpedo bombers, and more torpedo bomber squads, especially if you get good at using manual firing with them due to how the torpedo cones work. IJN CVs either need to have a better player to take out the enemy air fighters, or else get good at playing cat and mouse with your bombers and their fighters.
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May 31, 2016 17:28
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Minenfeld! posted:Wasn't that the point of reactivating the Missouri during the Gulf War? I'd imagine that a Missouri could take a beating from missiles. No, the Missouri wasn't reactivated during the Gulf War. The Iowas were reactivated during Reagan's and Lehman's push for a 600-ship navy. She'd already been reactivated when the Gulf War happened. JuffoWup posted:Nope. She was converted into an over sized missile ship. I think she did do some shore bombardment, but her main reason there was for the amount of cruise missiles she could launch. The reactivated Iowas carried 32 in box launchers, that's not a huge amount. 116 Tomahawks were fired in the first day, and 288 total. Missouri fired a total of 28. Lord Koth posted:Technically big guns do provide one advantage over missiles, and that's saturating an area with fire to keep the enemy's head down. The trouble is that battleship guns aren't really good for *that*, either. There's barely any explosive fill, and the flat trajectory you get from such high velocities means that even small terrain features can provide very effective cover. That's what was found during WWII in the Pacific: once the battle's going and you had people on the beach to direct fires, they were useful to interdicting troop movements. But for preliminary bombardments, they didn't do anywhere near what was expected. Something like the Des Moines, with all those rapid-firing 8" guns, would be a much better NGFS ship than an Iowa. Magni posted:Depeds on the missile. A weedy little Harpoon? Yeah, no gonna do much. Some soviet-vintage monster missile that's almost the size of an F-16 and was designed to overkill 100k+-ton supercarriers? That's gonna hurt a hell of a lot. Agreed that a subsonic sea-skimmer like a Harpoon, Exocet, Silkwork, etc isn't going to do much if it hits the belt. But even those could scrub the topside of the gun directors, radars, communications gear, etc., and that's effectively a mission kill. And yeah, something like an AS-4 or SS-N-19 is can just kill it, those missiles are coming in with a lot more velocity and a lot more^2 kinetic energy than the 16"x45 shells the Iowas were armored against. Velius posted:God drat battleship rifles are enormous. I wish someone would experiment with a modernized, survivable gunship, rather than galvanically unstable aluminum cans. Modern warships are extremely survivable, they just don't mount a lot of armor worn. Modern ships are armored in other ways, like armor of form. Take a look at the USS Princeton. In Gulf War 1, she struck a mine in 16 meters of water, the explosion of which set off a second mine a few hundred meters away. Between the different shock components, the ship was twisted in all 3 axes; the bow, stern, and midships were basically all gyrating in circles but with no common axis. This does very bad things to ships, stuff like cracking 8"x10" steel I-beams, heaving the deck upward 20 degrees, separating 10% of the superstructure from the main deck, things like that. Her chill-water pipes were ruptured, so her combat systems overheated and shut down. Her hull wasn't holed, but she still started to flood through burst seams. Her port rudder was jammed. Damage control efforts got her weapons systems back online within 15 minutes, and she stayed on station for another 30 hours providing air cover for the minesweeping and recovery efforts before she was relieved and put under tow. Only three people were hurt. Or the USS Samuel B. Roberts, a little frigate (okay, about double the displacement of a WWII destroyer). Also struck a mine:  That's a 15-meter hole in the hull, knocked her engines off their mounts, cracked the keel. Only 10 injuries, 6 of which were minor, damage control saved the ship and she was only decommissioned last year. Yeah, the LCS is a shitshow, but that's concurrency for you. I'd like to think all the services have now learned their lessons with that bullshit. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 18:08 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 17:43
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Burt posted:Regarding Premium ships, the ones to most definitely have in your shipyard are; Also the Imperator Nikolai and the Grem, if they go on sale buy them immediately.
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May 31, 2016 17:50
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Phanatic posted:No, the Missouri wasn't reactivated during the Gulf War. The Iowas were reactivated during Reagan's and Lehman's push for a 600-ship navy. She'd already been reactivated when the Gulf War happened. The Samuel B. Roberts was literally lashed together with steel cable by the crew to keep her from breaking in half after she struck the mine. Anyone who knows anything about cables under extreme tension can tell you why this is an amazingly terrible idea, but the alternative was the ship breaking in half and sinking probably within minutes. My only experience with catastrophic flooding was the "Buttercup" wet trainer in Norfolk. There was enough water in the storage tank to flood the engineering compartment from deck to overhead multiple times, and we "died", a lot. Catastrophic flooding is probably the most terrifying and chaotic thing I think a crew can experience on a ship. Even a main space fire is less terrifying. orange juche fucked around with this message at 18:34 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 18:17
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Carriers get less fun as you go up in tiers. Cruisers get a force field that makes them impossible to bomb, battleships get much better AA and tend to clump together, and you'll run into more and more US fighter-spec carriers that are useless at everything except annoying you.
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May 31, 2016 18:17
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Tokyo Sexwhale posted:The Samuel B. Roberts was literally lashed together with steel cable by the crew to keep her from breaking in half after she struck the mine. Anyone who knows anything about cables under extreme tension can tell you why this is an amazingly terrible idea, but the alternative was the ship breaking in half and sinking probably within minutes. Yep, the D.C. parties did a heroic job. As did this screwdriver:  This is what her main engine room looked like:  Damage control is a variety of armor: mitigant armor. Doesn't prevent you from getting hit, doesn't prevent the damage from the hit, but is mitigates the effects and lets you keep fighting.
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May 31, 2016 19:29
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ranbo das posted:Also the Imperator Nikolai and the Grem, if they go on sale buy them immediately. Absolutely, although apparently the Gremy will never be on sale again, its so OP...I would buy both in an isntant.
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May 31, 2016 19:41
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The only thing fun about playing carriers is basically specing as an air superiority carrier and laughing as you nullify other carriers air wings entirely. Then you basically spend the rest of the match hoping your teammates can actually take care of the remaining ships. Sure you might have a single bomber squadron, but they're more of an annoyance than a real threat.
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May 31, 2016 19:41
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Khisanth Magus posted:I enjoy them. As for whether US or IJN line: US carriers of a tier will always have better fighters, both quality and quantity, over an IJN carrier. Even an IJN carrier with air superiority loadout will lose to a US carrier. For doing damage, US carriers have better dive bombers, and in later tiers dive bombers will do most of your damage. IJN carriers have better torpedo bombers, and more torpedo bomber squads, especially if you get good at using manual firing with them due to how the torpedo cones work. IJN CVs either need to have a better player to take out the enemy air fighters, or else get good at playing cat and mouse with your bombers and their fighters. Err, the US gets better torpedo bombers too, they just only have the one squadron, as opposed to multiple. Their torpedoes both do more damage, and have a better drop pattern overall. IJN squadrons do have a slight speed advantage at most tiers, but it's not a particularly staggering difference - and Hiryu and stock Shokaku getting stuck with T6 torpedo bombers means the US does better at speed too at those tiers. The way damage to squadrons works also means they're less likely to lose planes from said squadron as well on the run in, which means less chances of an exploitable gap in the pattern.
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May 31, 2016 20:02
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Lord Koth posted:Err, the US gets better torpedo bombers too, they just only have the one squadron, as opposed to multiple. Their torpedoes both do more damage, and have a better drop pattern overall. IJN squadrons do have a slight speed advantage at most tiers, but it's not a particularly staggering difference - and Hiryu and stock Shokaku getting stuck with T6 torpedo bombers means the US does better at speed too at those tiers. The way damage to squadrons works also means they're less likely to lose planes from said squadron as well on the run in, which means less chances of an exploitable gap in the pattern. Having 2 sets of torpedo bombers really lets you set up patterns that are much harder to dodge, particularly with cruisers. Really though, I have no intention of going past my Ryujo, no matter how much I enjoy carrier play. The games where I get upmatched to T8 and even loving destroyers will destroy half a squad that flies overhead gives me a peak at how utterly miserable it will be. I'd say that T5-6 is where carrier play probably peaks. Enough squads to be fun to play, but you don't have to deal with quite as much absolute BS AA.
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May 31, 2016 20:07
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Khisanth Magus posted:Having 2 sets of torpedo bombers really lets you set up patterns that are much harder to dodge, particularly with cruisers. Yeah, weaves can be dangerous, and the Midway initially having access to dual torpedo squadrons along with the inherently better US pattern and torpedoes was one reason why it was so bullshit, but on the individual plane level the US gets better torpedoes along with singular squadrons have better patterns. As for not continuing, probably a good idea. Latest patch raped CVs hard, massively jacking up the AA on a bunch of ships, especially US battleships (along with apparently adding the whole "sweeping an ally's squadron apparently counts towards TK damage"?), and I'm seeing virtually none in high tier matches any more. Carriers have always had the issue that if an enemy team is disorganized they can do massive damage, but if one properly organizes cruiser support the CVs have trouble doing much of anything. WG, in their infinite wisdom, has simply continued to hammer them with nerfs, due to listening to whining idiots with no concept of team play, so they struggle even against many lone targets.
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May 31, 2016 20:21
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There is no such thing as an organized team outside of the premade 10v10 teams. Even then there's a lot of people who play in there who are pretty bad/have poo poo situational awareness.
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May 31, 2016 20:33
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The only downside to the US torp bombers is that most of their torps will be wasted. 3 torps out of 6 on big ships is pretty common, 4-6 rarely on long ships that don't turn or turn away. Whereas with the IJN, I can reliably hit three out of four torps on big ships and frequently land the full spread. The captain skill that gives an extra 5 knots to torpedoes in exchange for 20% of their range is amazing here, you can drop your torps from further away and really take advantage of the cone effect. I just wish you could decide on your squadrons organically rather than have them pre-picked. Load up on dive bombers to hunt carriers, then re-arm them with torpedoes on the next wave to take on battleships. There needs to be more done to make fighters fun too. Brewster Buffalos probably shouldn't be wiping the floor with Zeros in a dogfight.
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May 31, 2016 20:36
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Khisanth Magus posted:Really though, I have no intention of going past my Ryujo, no matter how much I enjoy carrier play... I'd say that T5-6 is where carrier play probably peaks. I've said it before but I really think that Zuiho is miles better in this regard. One less squadron than Ryujo but it only faces T6 max, whereas Ryujo gets T8. You also see a lot of double CV games with a T4 who hasn't played.
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May 31, 2016 20:42
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I am terrible in carriers, but I will say that apparently no one knows fighters can do that strafing run thing. I brought out the Hosho for a match and accomplishing nothing with the torpedo bombers, but I did wipe out 2 squads of bombers from an enemy carrier in a single strafing run. I moved up to the New York this weekend and what a massive improvement over the Wyoming. Shells actually land where I'm aiming and do damage when they hit, its actually fun. First game I got enough XP to unlock the B hull, 2nd game enough for the engine and FCS.
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May 31, 2016 21:42
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Are all the mid-tier US CVs still really  ? Cause I really wanted an Essex but going through the middle tiers stopped me cold.wdarkk posted:I feel like Indianapolis is better than Atlanta, but I guess it could depend.
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May 31, 2016 22:14
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Insert name here posted:It's pretty much a T7 New Orleans isn't it? It's very much a regular US Heavy Cruiser rather than a weird hilarious gimmick the Atlanta is. I thought it's armor was more on par with the Pensacola? From what I've seen, it doesn't seem to be as durable as the New Orleans.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:06
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Honestly, I have no idea what Wargaming's vision for CVs is anymore. It's not particularly fun to play them, it's not very fun to counter-play against them in non-CVs, and they're all but extinct at the top tiers due to blundered attempts to balance them. They just haven't been implemented into the game very well, imo. I'm holding out hope that they give the whole class a rework from the ground up instead of continuing their current strategy of throwing poo poo at a wall to see what sticks. UV_Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jun 1, 2016 |
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Jun 1, 2016 00:08
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Honestly, I have no idea what Wargaming's vision for CVs is anymore. It's not particularly fun to play them, it's not very fun to counter-play against them in non-CVs, and they're all but extinct at the top tiers due to blundered attempts to balance them. They just haven't been implemented into the game very well, imo. The UI fights you as well. There is no information (except via mods) to tell you if you are looking at the tier 4's fighters circling near by, or if those are the tier 6's fighters. All while being a tier 4 carrier yourself. Along with that, right click too often and you'll suddenly find yourself redirecting your auto pilot to go there as well as the planes. You also can't move waypoints around to clean up where it was placed. Maybe you realize that you want it to be a smidge more north of where you placed the route. But you can't just drag it over, you have to start all over again.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:52
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Phanatic posted:Yep, the D.C. parties did a heroic job. As did this screwdriver: I've read up on the Samuel B. Roberts (all 3 of them actually; they're quite the trio of ships and all of them served with distinction in some way or another), but holy poo poo, I have not seen any pictures of the one that struck a mine, and seeing that and the engine room and what they actually had to deal with makes it even more impressive. I think my favorite of the 3 ships with that name though was the first one, "The destroyer escort that fought like a battleship"
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Jun 1, 2016 01:14
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Does anyone have any experience with messing with model swapping in the new file system? Apparently in 0.5.5 they changed the file system up, and whereas before if I wanted to swap some plane models around I could just plop the [plane].model file into res_mods and and edit the file to point to whatever model I wanted to load, but I guess that's not possible anymore, and now you have to replace the models wholesale?Minenfeld! posted:I thought it's armor was more on par with the Pensacola? From what I've seen, it doesn't seem to be as durable as the New Orleans.
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Jun 1, 2016 01:34
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Phanatic posted:No, the Missouri wasn't reactivated during the Gulf War. The Iowas were reactivated during Reagan's and Lehman's push for a 600-ship navy. She'd already been reactivated when the Gulf War happened. So it was done to pad out the numbers of ships? By armor of form, do you mean compartmentalization to provide a rugged ship that can take damage without succumbing instantly?
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Jun 1, 2016 01:39
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This is from several pages back, but wanted to mention a different video of yours. The flattop video. There was a moment where you just straight lined without any real action to the torpedo planes. And I wonder if you knew that you can take over manual controls of the carrier. This is also a tip for other cv captains that aren't aware of this. Not only that, but if you hit shift while the boat is selected, you'll be in the same comfortable view of any regular ship and can pilot it accordingly.a It was probably a cross strike enough that wouldn't have dodge much anyway, but thought I'd mention since it didn't look like you attempted anything.
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Jun 1, 2016 01:47
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Is the Indianapolis only going to be around for the next 12 days, or can I nab it afterwards like the other premium ships?
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Jun 1, 2016 01:49
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JuffoWup posted:This is from several pages back, but wanted to mention a different video of yours. The flattop video. There was a moment where you just straight lined without any real action to the torpedo planes. And I wonder if you knew that you can take over manual controls of the carrier. This is also a tip for other cv captains that aren't aware of this. Not only that, but if you hit shift while the boat is selected, you'll be in the same comfortable view of any regular ship and can pilot it accordingly.a It was probably a cross strike enough that wouldn't have dodge much anyway, but thought I'd mention since it didn't look like you attempted anything. Oh sorry, those aren't my videos. I posted that one because I thought it was pretty good 
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Jun 1, 2016 02:01
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Wow those damage pictures are nuts. Ok Roon/Hindenberg people. Rof upgrade or Range?
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Jun 1, 2016 02:14
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Minenfeld! posted:So it was done to pad out the numbers of ships? Mainly. The 600-ship thing was this political commitment during Reagan's campaign, and we weren't going to make it there with new construction. So we reactivated some old ships and started keeping newer ones in operation for longer before sending them to the reserve fleet. The Iowas were a great way to bring us closer to that goal, politically speaking. Big and impressive, hearkened back to the glory days of WWII, reasonable intimidation factor if you park one offshore against some country without modern ASMs, etc. Who cared if they were ridiculously manpower-intensive and hence expensive as hell to operate and also not good for much? They obviously had some utility, but not in proportion to the expense of the modernization program or the operating costs. We never did quite make it to 600 ships, because the funding just wasn't there. quote:By armor of form, do you mean compartmentalization to provide a rugged ship that can take damage without succumbing instantly? That's an example of it. So are things like redundant fire mains, shock qualifications for your shipboard electronics, reduced radar/IR/sound signatures, separating key pieces of equipment throughout the ship so that one hit doesn't take out a vital system and its redundancies, etc. You see the same thing in commercial aircraft. A plane might have 3 to 5 redundancies for its fly-by-wire computers, and they are located in physically different areas of the plane, not all crammed into one avionics closet where one fire would kill all of them.
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Jun 1, 2016 02:20
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Handsome Ralph posted:Is the Indianapolis only going to be around for the next 12 days, or can I nab it afterwards like the other premium ships? Goes away the morning of June 13th, I think. I haven't heard they're going to go to a more WoT-like system of updating the in-game premium selection, so you run the risk of it being not around for a while.
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Jun 1, 2016 03:18
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Goes away the morning of June 13th, I think. I haven't heard they're going to go to a more WoT-like system of updating the in-game premium selection, so you run the risk of it being not around for a while.
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Jun 1, 2016 03:37
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Well, the way it works in WoT is that it's cash-only until the next 'big release.' Big releases in WoWS take longer than they do in WoT.
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Jun 1, 2016 03:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIZgFDI2A_0
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Jun 1, 2016 03:51
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So what's up with that 50 gold camo you can put on any ship? Does that +100% XP really apply to everything? That seems like it would be even better than an actual premium ship 
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Jun 1, 2016 04:37
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-Troika- posted:So what's up with that 50 gold camo you can put on any ship? Does that +100% XP really apply to everything? That seems like it would be even better than an actual premium ship Yea, but its 50 gold per match. Its useful to bring a ship out of stock though.
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Jun 1, 2016 05:45
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Premium ships are interesting for their hidden credit bonus, not for the +50% useless xp camo they come with.
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Jun 1, 2016 05:46
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Lakedaimon posted:Wow those damage pictures are nuts. I went with range on my Roon as it allows you to be an annoying twat far earlier into the game. You can also run away if multiple baddies start focusing on you as you have spent 5 minutes constantly smiting them.
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Jun 1, 2016 07:29
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Just got Montana and looking for opinions on the 3m cred upgrade slot. Seems a choice between +Reload/-Traverse, better dispersion, or 20% better AA.
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Jun 1, 2016 07:44
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I pretty much always go better dispersion. Better dispersion = more shells on target = more damage
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Jun 1, 2016 15:05
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Speaking of CV being bad, how is strafing calculated? I've seen it at least once myself, but I've also seen videos of it as well where a strafe run did 0 damage.
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Jun 1, 2016 18:44
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Another 50mb, mod breaking patch today. Also the ranked screen popped up as soon as I logged in, next season starts in 2 days and it's for Tier X only, so no ranked for me.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:55
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