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Westminster System posted:Shams Jorjani tweeted something about knowing people who have actually put together serious business plans that end up flawed because they are based on steam spy data.  My business proposal is based off twenty minutes of skimming wikipedia and visiting the somethingawful games forum. This is me in real life: 
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Jun 4, 2016 17:56
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Fintilgin posted:My business proposal is based off twenty minutes of skimming wikipedia and visiting the somethingawful games forum. Sounds familiar.
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Jun 4, 2016 18:01
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I don't get why the Paradox hate seems to have multiplied lately, both in this thread as well in the separate game threads. Yes, the games are, as always, somewhat buggy and unbalanced on release yet quite fun and with lots of potential. We all know that that's how they're going to turn out, so why do people seem to be a lot more angry nowadays? I'm not saying that it's okay, just that it can't be news to anyone that this is how Paradox games are.
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Jun 4, 2016 18:26
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Star posted:I don't get why the Paradox hate seems to have multiplied lately, both in this thread as well in the separate game threads. Yes, the games are, as always, somewhat buggy and unbalanced on release yet quite fun and with lots of potential. We all know that that's how they're going to turn out, so why do people seem to be a lot more angry nowadays? I'm not saying that it's okay, just that it can't be news to anyone that this is how Paradox games are. It's probably less hate and more cautious skepticism mixed with general shitposting one-upsmanship and mob mentality.
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Jun 4, 2016 18:58
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Star posted:I don't get why the Paradox hate seems to have multiplied lately, both in this thread as well in the separate game threads. Yes, the games are, as always, somewhat buggy and unbalanced on release yet quite fun and with lots of potential. We all know that that's how they're going to turn out, so why do people seem to be a lot more angry nowadays? I'm not saying that it's okay, just that it can't be news to anyone that this is how Paradox games are. A lot of people appear to be pissed Stellaris turned out to be a pretty balloon filled with a lot of hot air and not much else. This might coincide with the fact that Stellaris seems to have brought in a lot of new players, as opposed to Paradox veterans who are used to this kind of thing. To be quite honest, I'm ever so slowly getting tired of hand-waving these shortcomings away. HOI4 better deliver.
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Jun 4, 2016 19:12
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EU4 was also barebones. People just tend to forget the problems of the old while highlighting the problems of the new. Paradox is basically how it's always been.
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Jun 4, 2016 19:28
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Elias_Maluco posted:Same, even though I've never even heard of steam spy before reading about it here
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Jun 4, 2016 19:30
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mackintosh posted:A lot of people appear to be pissed Stellaris turned out to be a pretty balloon filled with a lot of hot air and not much else. This might coincide with the fact that Stellaris seems to have brought in a lot of new players, as opposed to Paradox veterans who are used to this kind of thing. To be quite honest, I'm ever so slowly getting tired of hand-waving these shortcomings away. HOI4 better deliver. There are already plenty of indications that HoI4 will launch with severe AI and balance issues. How hard those are to fix remains to be seen.
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Jun 4, 2016 20:18
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People who buy Paradox games at release are basically beta testers. Some don't like that as they pay full price for an unfinished product.
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Jun 4, 2016 20:32
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mackintosh posted:A lot of people appear to be pissed Stellaris turned out to be a pretty balloon filled with a lot of hot air and not much else. This might coincide with the fact that Stellaris seems to have brought in a lot of new players, as opposed to Paradox veterans who are used to this kind of thing. To be quite honest, I'm ever so slowly getting tired of hand-waving these shortcomings away. HOI4 better deliver. I fully agree, and in the long-run it's bound to affect their brand, especially now that they are becoming a lot more mainstream. My hope was that with the success of City skylines, Stellaris and so on, they'd have the capital to let their games sit for a couple of months longer and fine-tune them and add more content. This far that doesn't seem to be the case, but we'll see.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:02
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PleasingFungus posted:The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox removed their games from SteamSpy tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human. I self-identify as Paradox games on SteamSpy.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:12
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Star posted:I don't get why the Paradox hate seems to have multiplied lately, both in this thread as well in the separate game threads. Yes, the games are, as always, somewhat buggy and unbalanced on release yet quite fun and with lots of potential. We all know that that's how they're going to turn out, so why do people seem to be a lot more angry nowadays? I'm not saying that it's okay, just that it can't be news to anyone that this is how Paradox games are. Star posted:I fully agree, and in the long-run it's bound to affect their brand, especially now that they are becoming a lot more mainstream. My hope was that with the success of City skylines, Stellaris and so on, they'd have the capital to let their games sit for a couple of months longer and fine-tune them and add more content. This far that doesn't seem to be the case, but we'll see.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:EU4 was also barebones. People just tend to forget the problems of the old while highlighting the problems of the new. Paradox is basically how it's always been. EU4 started out as a shiny coat of paint and the monarch point technology system on top of EU3: Divine Wind and grew into a perfectly competent game on its own right over its first few years of release. EU3 was also a pretty complete game at that point, so it was still a fine upgrade to an old game that had been pushed to its limitations; Divine Wind was a completely different game from launch EU3.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:23
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Sindai posted:I think a mix of Stellaris's extremely effective marketing, the hype from it being the first new Paradox IP in a long time, and the fact we went longer than normal between Paradox game launches thanks to HoI4's huge delay made people forget how new Paradox games work. The problem with Stellaris isn't bugs, it's brazen lack of content. CK2 and EU4 had a plethora of issues, but finding myself without anything to do wasn't one of them. My Stellaris experience thus far boils down to getting to a certain point and then restarting due to sheer boredom and predictability. There's only so much fun that can be had interacting with randomly generated aliens without any depth and complexity to these relationships. In all my Paradox experience, this is the first time it's happened and I'm a bit salty.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:30
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FadingChord posted:EU4 started out as a shiny coat of paint and the monarch point technology system on top of EU3: Divine Wind and grew into a perfectly competent game on its own right over its first few years of release. EU3 was also a pretty complete game at that point, so it was still a fine upgrade to an old game that had been pushed to its limitations; Divine Wind was a completely different game from launch EU3. It's hilarious to me people going REMEMBER EU4 are the people who really need to remember EU4. The release complaint about EU4 was that it was essentially EU3.5, not that it lacked content or had major systems filled with bugs.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:35
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mackintosh posted:The problem with Stellaris isn't bugs, it's brazen lack of content. CK2 and EU4 had a plethora of issues, but finding myself without anything to do wasn't one of them. My Stellaris experience thus far boils down to getting to a certain point and then restarting due to sheer boredom and predictability. There's only so much fun that can be had interacting with randomly generated aliens without any depth and complexity to these relationships. In all my Paradox experience, this is the first time it's happened and I'm a bit salty. I think this is really fair honestly. The game just doesn't do anything all that interesting that improves on the standard 4X formula, and it's not really EU style grand strategy either. Somehow despite brazenly stealing features from Distant Worlds it has a lot less content than that game does.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:36
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Viral Warfare posted:I think this is really fair honestly. The game just doesn't do anything all that interesting that improves on the standard 4X formula, and it's not really EU style grand strategy either. Somehow despite brazenly stealing features from Distant Worlds it has a lot less content than that game does. To be fair, Distant Worlds, while a fantastic game, also had to be designed so that nearly all of its systems could be run on autopilot because of how stupidly complex the game is. I am looking forward to Stellaris becoming more Distant Worlds-like with expansions though, particularly with civilian stuff. However you also can't claim that DW has a robust diplomacy system either, so that's something both games lack.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:50
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Viral Warfare posted:I think this is really fair honestly. The game just doesn't do anything all that interesting that improves on the standard 4X formula, and it's not really EU style grand strategy either. Somehow despite brazenly stealing features from Distant Worlds it has a lot less content than that game does. I really think they hit on something good with the Fallen Empires and randomly generated species, they're a lot more engaging than standard space 4X fare to me. On the other hand yeah the content is pretty light. I was expecting it to be a pretty light game on launch and still got disappointed.
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Jun 4, 2016 22:08
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People should also remember how incredibly content-light CK2 was at launch. Aside from a scant handful of events, it was pretty much just a game of white Christian people holding summer fairs, hunting in October, and feasts. Rinse/repeat, marry people, occasionally murder someone.
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Jun 4, 2016 22:13
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Koramei posted:I really think they hit on something good with the Fallen Empires and randomly generated species, they're a lot more engaging than standard space 4X fare to me. I agree with the Fallen Empires, but randomly generated species aren't all that interesting. Every 'Fanatical Purifier' acts exactly the same, so they're not really that different other than minor cosmetic differences- I'd rather have fully fleshed out races as in other 4X fare when that's the case.
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Jun 4, 2016 22:17
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So I wanted to check out CK2 mods on steam and I saw this A perfectly normal person posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZbrupqKepc
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Jun 4, 2016 22:17
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stellaris is ok but it's so much worse than distant worlds  On the other hand most of paradox's other games are completely unique so I think that's why stellaris is a disappointment to me
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Jun 4, 2016 22:19
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corn in the bible posted:stellaris is ok but it's so much worse than distant worlds But I like pretty graphics also not to knock Slytherine, but do they ever lower their prices?
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Jun 4, 2016 22:30
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What is the best manner to go about resting the armies, cultivating the wastelands, and nourishing the people?
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Jun 4, 2016 22:34
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Crowsbeak posted:But I like pretty graphics also not to knock Slytherine, but do they ever lower their prices? DW goes on sale for 30 every so often
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Jun 4, 2016 22:35
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Drone posted:People should also remember how incredibly content-light CK2 was at launch. Aside from a scant handful of events, it was pretty much just a game of white Christian people holding summer fairs, hunting in October, and feasts. Rinse/repeat, marry people, occasionally murder someone. e: i guess that sounds really harsh. it's definitely fun to blob around the galaxy but a lot of stuff is really obviously absent Samog fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 23:00
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The idea that you're not supposed to say a game has issues because another game had the same issues is pretty bizarre.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:03
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Vanilla Mint Ice posted:It's hilarious to me people going REMEMBER EU4 are the people who really need to remember EU4. The release complaint about EU4 was that it was essentially EU3.5, not that it lacked content or had major systems filled with bugs. For what it's worth, though, if you're complaining that EU4 didn't go far beyond the baseline of EU3, isn't that effectively complaining about a lack of (new) content? It IS interesting to look at Stellaris's development as a completely new IP, though - I think I forgot or didn't realize how much of Paradox's development relies on iterating upon and refining systems already set in place. Sure, sometimes they took out or heavily modified existing systems, but most of the time this was within the context of the existing, proven design. It looks like creating an entirely new design from scratch is a skillset that Paradox still needs to develop as a company.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:13
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Tomn posted:For what it's worth, though, if you're complaining that EU4 didn't go far beyond the baseline of EU3, isn't that effectively complaining about a lack of (new) content? In a very pedantic sense, maybe, but the final effect is very different. Someone playing EU4, especially a new player, would have a solid experience; someone playing Stellaris...
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Jun 4, 2016 23:17
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I've played Stellaris for over 200 hours and was still able to find new little things now and again when I was playing to burnout point. But I guess that's not enough content.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:21
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PleasingFungus posted:In a very pedantic sense, maybe, but the final effect is very different. Someone playing EU4, especially a new player, would have a solid experience; someone playing Stellaris... Will still have a good time.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:36
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ArchangeI posted:There are already plenty of indications that HoI4 will launch with severe AI and balance issues. How hard those are to fix remains to be seen. Cite your sources before spewing stupid bullshit about the AI. Here are a few that you're working against. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3776674&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=31#post460635282 https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/ai-incapable-of-defense-seems-to-be-a-very-very-big-issue.940433/page-9#post-21327352
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Jun 4, 2016 23:36
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PleasingFungus posted:In a very pedantic sense, maybe, but the final effect is very different. Someone playing EU4, especially a new player, would have a solid experience; someone playing Stellaris... Same thing in terms of complaining about Paradox, though. If people were complaining that Paradox is bad and lazy because EU4 was just EU3 with a facelift, Stellaris 1 is essentially Stellaris 0 with a facelift so it's less a new and unprecedented level of bad laziness and more "they didn't have a base they could fall back on this time." Not that I personally think Paradox is bad and lazy, mind you, just noting that the complaints about fundamentally about the same problem in a different context. I agree that consumer-side it does work out pretty differently, but given how space 4Xes tend to do I'm inclined to think that maybe the genre just fundamentally needs more time and money nowadays than most other genres not to come out looking half-baked. A lot of people mention Distant Worlds, but point of curiosity (not a rhetorical point) - did anybody here play Distant Worlds without the expansions? What was that like?
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Jun 4, 2016 23:37
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PleasingFungus posted:In a very pedantic sense, maybe, but the final effect is very different. Someone playing EU4, especially a new player, would have a solid experience; someone playing Stellaris... I had a lot of fun playing Stellaris.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:41
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I am glad Stellaris is nothing like Distant Worlds because it makes it a game that I would like to play instead of a game I would like to not play but maybe watch.Star posted:I don't get why the Paradox hate seems to have multiplied lately, both in this thread as well in the separate game threads. Yes, the games are, as always, somewhat buggy and unbalanced on release yet quite fun and with lots of potential. We all know that that's how they're going to turn out, so why do people seem to be a lot more angry nowadays? I'm not saying that it's okay, just that it can't be news to anyone that this is how Paradox games are.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:45
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texasmed posted:Cite your sources before spewing stupid bullshit about the AI. Here are a few that you're working against. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SBSSN9Y9qY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPPaY2Zba58 if you can watch these and not be concerned about what the gently caress is happening idk what to say im a big fan of the game being more sandboxy than realism but this stuff is just dumb
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Jun 4, 2016 23:45
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I had a lot of fun playing Stellaris. I've hated every second of the 65 hours I have in Stellaris so far, personally. Every last one of those 234,000 seconds.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:47
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I had a lot of fun playing Stellaris. The Internet is telling you that you aren't allowed to like it. Better comply! Though I have to say comparisons to previous releases are silly. Especially EU4 because the biggest voices were screaming about all the content we cut away.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:59
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Groogy posted:Though I have to say comparisons to previous releases are silly. Especially EU4 because the biggest voices were screaming about all the content we cut away. i thought the complaints were all about Bird Mana.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:03
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No I remember people arguing over the fact that nomad diplomacy was gone. Or like dynamic trade centers, etc.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:05
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