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Crowsbeak posted:
She's not wrong.
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Jun 6, 2016 05:54
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Service programs would be good. For example if your family is in the top 40% of earners you have to work a retail job for two to four years. Everyone else can do as they like from any kind of identified public service jobs, be it medical, local through state government, public safety, americorps, military, whatever, the point is you learn about the civic commitment that a self governed populace requires. But if you don't complete your service you don't get to vote. I think this is fair. Combine with GMI and you might have a Trump resistant society on your hands.
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Jun 6, 2016 05:56
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RuanGacho posted:Service programs would be good. I like this. Personally I think everyone should have to work retail at Walmart for at least 6 months.
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Jun 6, 2016 06:14
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I can tell you a lot about service programs, and I have mixed feelings on mandatory service.
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Jun 6, 2016 06:16
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Let me tell you why I, too, feel people who aren't me should be subject to forced labor or disenfranchisement
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Jun 6, 2016 06:33
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Javid posted:Let me tell you why I, too, feel people who aren't me should be subject to forced labor or disenfranchisement There is value to mandatory civil service, but not really in the way anyone here has remotely described it.
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Jun 6, 2016 06:39
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:There is value to mandatory civil service, but not really in the way anyone here has remotely described it. Of course there is value it's free labor!
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Jun 6, 2016 06:42
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Hollismason posted:Of course there is value it's free labor! Well that was kind of my point -- it shouldn't be free labor -- that's a bad service experience/activity.
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Jun 6, 2016 06:43
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Hollismason posted:Of course there is value it's free labor! When did I suggest no compensation? Also when no one can see the value of bringing people of different ethnic and class backgrounds together I am worried.
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Jun 6, 2016 06:52
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Crowsbeak posted:When did I suggest no compensation? Also when no one can see the value of bringing people of different ethnic and class backgrounds together I am worried.  HookedOnChthonics posted:You'd probably end up with an education/HHS/HUD budget larger than defense on your balance sheet, but As for building pride in your country I suppose this has a certain Orwellian vibe to it. Who decides what constitutes "pride" and "what you should be proud of"? Is there a major deficiency in "national pride" among young people or is this just another way to blame them for not taking the jobs that aren't there?
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Jun 6, 2016 07:32
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Man this thread has gone in a strange direction.
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Jun 6, 2016 07:32
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Nessus posted:While I doubt it would be cheap, I doubt it would be as bad as that, and there would also be considerable economic benefits. Some quick back-of-the-napkin math and I don't think you pay less than $200 billion a year strictly in salaries and stipends for that year's crop of personnel And oh god inculcation of pride isn't what I meant at all If anything it's the opposite in that it should thoroughly disabuse a person of the idea that America is at all a fair or equal society I think it should develop one's empathy and perspective: force everyone, in some regard, to become comfortable somewhere they never were before, with people they would otherwise never have met. Time it to the critical identity-building phase of a person's life, throw as many opportunities and resources for personal development as possible in the mix, mandate a little socialization, and walla, better, more democratic citizens capable of looking past socioeconomic lines by dint of shared experience. Draft proponents have occasionally used basically the same argument, though with increased chance of death I guess. But again, the whole idea of making it mandatory so fundamentally rejects facts of both political reality and apparent human nature that it may as well be full communism now
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Jun 6, 2016 08:51
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This thread has taught me that any proposed changed to the american status quo will lead to dystopia.
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Jun 6, 2016 10:37
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Nessus posted:My bleak theory would be that the various plush internships that the well-off get would get recast as their Public Service Year or whatever, while the poor got to build roads in Nevada. Of course this might build solidarity among the working classes...
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Jun 6, 2016 10:39
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wait is crowsbeak actually amergin?
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Jun 6, 2016 10:50
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What's funny about "building roads in Nevada" is that it's not actually a public job in most states. It's all contracted out to private firms.
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Jun 6, 2016 11:01
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Not a bad gig being paid to pay five dudes to watch one dig a hole.
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Jun 6, 2016 11:09
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To change the subject of whether required service to the country is a capitalist plot. Noted shithead and eater of cakes Tom Cotton is preventing the Senate from passing a criminal law reform bill that would make it harder to lock up kids because he thinks parents should be able to request their children be locked up.
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Jun 6, 2016 11:33
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Stultus Maximus posted:I just saw the picture and was briefly disappointed that Bob Mould wasn't running for president. The dude wrote "Makes no sense at all.", He has got my vote.
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Jun 6, 2016 12:10
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Nosfereefer posted:This thread has taught me that any proposed changed to the american status quo will lead to dystopia. Congratulations, you are now old.
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Jun 6, 2016 12:55
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Man this thread has gone in a strange direction. Slow couple of days in the news.
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Jun 6, 2016 13:48
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John Oliver just bought $15 million in medical debt (at a cost of $60,000) and forgave it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxUAntt1z2c
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Jun 6, 2016 14:08
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Nosfereefer posted:This thread has taught me that any proposed changed to the american status quo will lead to dystopia. "lead to"
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Jun 6, 2016 14:19
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RuanGacho posted:Service programs would be good. I have long wanted to be able to sentence people to a year or years working full-time at McDonald's.
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Jun 6, 2016 14:25
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Noam Chomsky posted:I have long wanted to be able to sentence people to a year or years working full-time at McDonald's. Wouldn't work. quote:But still you'll never get it right I mean, short term service projects can make a big difference in helping the privileged few realize how the other 99% live, and I'm a big fan of things like service requirements for graduation, etc. But the rich aren't ever going to experience or understand actually working a low wage job over a long term. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 14:29
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Litany Unheard posted:John Oliver just bought $15 million in medical debt (at a cost of $60,000) and forgave it. As much as I have problems with how some collection services behave, the rolling jubilee method of buying debt for pennies on the dollar from down-chain creditors and just poofing it into thin air is pretty awesome for the folks being relieved even if it's basically generating easy profit for places which tend to use rather questionable business practices.
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Jun 6, 2016 14:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Wouldn't work. Yeah it's like that dude that decided to show how easy it was to work hard and live on a lovely minimum wage job. It worked ok until his mom (or someone) got real sick and he had to cancel the experiment. The take-a-way was that anyone can do it and him quitting shouldn't count since it was outside the bounds of the experiment, not that "hmm what would have happened to his mom if he couldn't just quit his minimum wage job that he needed to survive."
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Jun 6, 2016 14:35
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FAUXTON posted:As much as I have problems with how some collection services behave, the rolling jubilee method of buying debt for pennies on the dollar from down-chain creditors and just poofing it into thin air is pretty awesome for the folks being relieved even if it's basically generating easy profit for places which tend to use rather questionable business practices. How is it awesome for the folks being relieved? My understanding is that the reason the debt is so cheap is because "the folks'" credit score has already been trashed and the debt written off, so instead of the collection service getting the $0 they assumed and budgeted for, now they have a free $60,000 from John Oliver at no benefit to the debtors. It's not like John Oliver paying their debt is going to make their credit score go back up.
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Jun 6, 2016 14:38
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Radish posted:Yeah it's like that dude that decided to show how easy it was to work hard and live on a lovely minimum wage job. It worked ok until his mom (or someone) got real sick and he had to cancel the experiment. The take-a-way was that anyone can do it and him quitting shouldn't count since it was outside the bounds of the experiment, not that "hmm what would have happened to his mom if he couldn't just quit his minimum wage job that he needed to survive." Is there a link or something to this? The guy sounds incredibly dumb.
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Jun 6, 2016 14:44
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A Wheezy Steampunk posted:How is it awesome for the folks being relieved? My understanding is that the reason the debt is so cheap is because "the folks'" credit score has already been trashed and the debt written off, so instead of the collection service getting the $0 they assumed and budgeted for, now they have a free $60,000 from John Oliver at no benefit to the debtors. It's not like John Oliver paying their debt is going to make their credit score go back up. I mean, he also can't take away whatever medical ailment got them into this situation, but it's one more lovely thing off their plate which is nice.
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Jun 6, 2016 14:49
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Barbe Rouge posted:Is there a link or something to this? The guy sounds incredibly dumb. I wish I could find it since I guess it's unfair to say the guy learned nothing without being able to cite it. I definitely remember people using it as a "work hard and budget yourself you will be fine" answer to complaints about how difficult it is to survive on such a salary but MAYBE the guy writing it learned the real lesson (like when Mancow and Christopher Hitchens tried to prove waterboarding wasn't real torture and then said "actually yeah that's real torture"I can't quite remember and I can't remember the dude's name to find his book.
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Jun 6, 2016 14:49
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Thaddius the Large posted:I mean, he also can't take away whatever medical ailment got them into this situation, but it's one more lovely thing off their plate which is nice. Not really, because it was out-of-regulation debt, meaning it had already legally expired and the companies can't legally pursue it anyway. Scummy debt collectors might pursue it anyway, assuming the debtor doesn't know the law, but such a scummy debt collector might also pursue it after selling it off to a TV show, so not much gained.
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Jun 6, 2016 14:52
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haveblue posted:Congratulations, you are now old. but i am not even american 
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Jun 6, 2016 14:55
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But seriously, a lot of people would get some valuable experience from a modern cultural revolution. "send the silver spoons to the mcdonalds!"
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Jun 6, 2016 14:58
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Academician Nomad posted:Not really, because it was out-of-regulation debt, meaning it had already legally expired and the companies can't legally pursue it anyway. Scummy debt collectors might pursue it anyway, assuming the debtor doesn't know the law, but such a scummy debt collector might also pursue it after selling it off to a TV show, so not much gained. Now all of those folks get a letter saying "you officially don't owe this money" which is nice, and it's probably a nice relief for people who thought they still had that debt hanging over their heads. Sorry it didn't fix everything forever? It's a nice gesture, no reason to scream about the cloud while we're briefly enjoying the silver lining. We know the cloud is still there.
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Jun 6, 2016 15:02
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DemeaninDemon posted:Not a bad gig being paid to pay five dudes to watch one dig a hole. Digging is hard work and you trade out doing it with one of the guys watching you as a rotation. Nosfereefer posted:This thread has taught me that any proposed changed to the american status quo will lead to dystopia. Hyep.
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Jun 6, 2016 15:05
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Academician Nomad posted:Not really, because it was out-of-regulation debt, meaning it had already legally expired and the companies can't legally pursue it anyway. Scummy debt collectors might pursue it anyway, assuming the debtor doesn't know the law, but such a scummy debt collector might also pursue it after selling it off to a TV show, so not much gained. Huh, I didn't know that, learn something new every day. And now I want to start drinking heavily at 7:30 am, so thanks for that.
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Jun 6, 2016 15:29
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BuzzFeed Terminates Ad Deal With Republican Party Over Trumpquote:BuzzFeed has terminated a deal with the Republican National Committee to run political advertisements in the Fall, the company's CEO Jonah Peretti informed employees Monday morning.
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Jun 6, 2016 15:39
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^^^^ e: but my freedom of speech!Hieronymous Alloy posted:Wouldn't work. The wouldn't learn anything (as much?) because they don't need the job. The really lovely part of working at these jobs is having to jump through hoops and put up with dicks because you need to feed yourself or your family. If you don't need the money then management doesn't have the control to make your life miserable.
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Jun 6, 2016 15:39
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Nosfereefer posted:This thread has taught me that any proposed changed to the american status quo will lead to dystopia. Now you understand the nation is a fat person in a speedo perched atop a mountain of wet soap. Any movement, no matter how small, may begin the slide into *spins wheel* Daoist *throws dart* Anarchy!
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