CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

Niki's been cheerleading for Bernie for months and it's transparent leadership positioning.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 16:28

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# ? May 19, 2024 23:43

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

vyelkin posted:

Maybe they bought them from an unauthorized third party retailer. It would be peak NDP.

Roboshirt scandal. Let's blow the top off this one.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 16:53

MA-Horus: Dec 3, 2006; I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

buy a knockoff MAGA hat and drive a v6 mustang

It's the Canadian way

# ? Jun 6, 2016 17:03

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

I'm sure the American ambassador will deliver a formal reprimand over this blatant attempt to influence the American electorate.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 17:51

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007; nesaM killed Masen

God gently caress the NDP, what the hell, I miss Jack

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:05

Do it ironically: Jul 13, 2010; by Pragmatica

Canadian politicians shouldn't be getting involved in American politics like that, what a dumb gently caress

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:17

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

Is there anybody worthwhile working in the NDP anymore because it seems like anybody who would make a good leader is hilariously disinterested in the position

e: I'm voting for Helsing and his reaffirming decent into cynical shitposting

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:25

Hexigrammus: May 22, 2006; Cheech Wizard stories are clean, wholesome, reflective truths that go great with the marijuana munchies and a blow job.

Pinterest Mom posted:

Niki's been cheerleading for Bernie for months and it's transparent leadership positioning.

She needs better advisors.

Obviously I need to start paying attention to what's floating to the top in the NDP jar. It's either scum or cream rising until it sours.

Edit: Supreme Court deadline missed - Happy Death Day! Mass Boomer checkout(willing or otherwise) in 5..4...3...
Is weed legal yet?

Hexigrammus fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jun 6, 2016

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:27

Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

Tighclops posted:

Is there anybody worthwhile working in the NDP anymore because it seems like anybody who would make a good leader is hilariously disinterested in the position

e: I'm voting for Helsing and his reaffirming decent into cynical shitposting

Peter Julian and Alexandre Boulerice are both pretty cool. Boulerice is definitely running, PJ might.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:31

Do it ironically: Jul 13, 2010; by Pragmatica

you want to make a difference go loving volunteer in the constituency you were elected in, gently caress me, you're using the tax free money you're earning from public funds to fly to another country and campaign, how do you reason this in your head and go, yep, this sounds like a great idea what could go wrong

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:32

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Sanders is cool. who cares if there are NDP MPs who think that or spend their free time wanting to campaign for what is a lost cause. What a dumb thing to get mad about.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:37

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Weed status: still not loving legal.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:39

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

I wish I was as naive as the rest of you, believing that the US politicians and corporations have zero interest in Canadian politics and thus spend no effort on influencing peoples decisions at election time. No, the Liberals won a majority on hard work and good policy. :jerkbag:

Also this is a really stupid thing to get mad about.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:41

Do it ironically: Jul 13, 2010; by Pragmatica

ok sorry bro, someone does something possibly illegal and definitely in poor taste, but it's ok because others do things as well, how dumb of us

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:50

Hexigrammus: May 22, 2006; Cheech Wizard stories are clean, wholesome, reflective truths that go great with the marijuana munchies and a blow job.

Pinterest Mom posted:

Peter Julian and Alexandre Boulerice are both pretty cool. Boulerice is definitely running, PJ might.

Hmm. Looks like Peter Julian has an interesting resume. Didn't realize he had a pivotal role in the Transport Canada fight around substituting Safety Management Systems for actual aircraft safety enforcement. Gotta love SMSs. "Here's a wall full of paper that shows we're safe. No need for Labour Canada inspectors to check that we're actually doing any of this. You can go ahead and fire them all, or at least restrict them to their offices."

See also: Pipelines, Oil Tankers.

That's one thing that changed significantly over my career in Health and Safety. I started out trusting, then moved to trust & verify, then said "gently caress it" and just verified.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:51

InfiniteZero: Sep 11, 2004; PINK GUITAR FIRE ROBOT; College Slice

tagesschau posted:

I'm wondering how they got those shirts, since it's illegal for them to give money to the Sanders campaign.

It's almost as if Steve Ashton has a history of sketchy ethics with regards to campaign contributions.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:52

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007; nesaM killed Masen

Jordan7hm posted:

Sanders is cool. who cares if there are NDP MPs who think that or spend their free time wanting to campaign for what is a lost cause. What a dumb thing to get mad about.

It's illegal there and ethically sketchy here. It's worth being ticked about. The NDP has more than enough here to worry about and put effort/time into.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 18:55

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

Also most of these people would be very eager to tell an American politician who publicly endorsed a Canadian candidate to mind his own friggin business.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 19:02

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

I brought this up like 80 pages ago and none of you crybabies cared at the time lol

# ? Jun 6, 2016 19:04

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

CLAM DOWN posted:

It's illegal there and ethically sketchy here. It's worth being ticked about. The NDP has more than enough here to worry about and put effort/time into.

Its illegal here too but that didnt stop Koch money from finding its way to the Conservative coffers or Citizens United from ~~campaigning~~ raising awareness for them either.

Also the NDP has nothing to worry about here because they know they blew their only chance to stay relevant on a former Liberal centrist who will probably gently caress back off to the Liberal party before the next election.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 19:04

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

flakeloaf posted:

Also most of these people would be very eager to tell an American politician who publicly endorsed a Canadian candidate to mind his own friggin business.

If ignatief had invited some random Democrat rep to come campaign with him for the Liberal leadership I would not have cared, no.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 19:20

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007; nesaM killed Masen

THC posted:

I brought this up like 80 pages ago and none of you crybabies cared at the time lol

I thought you were a PT6A post and ignored it :v:

# ? Jun 6, 2016 19:28

Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

reminder

# ? Jun 6, 2016 19:31

ChairMaster: Aug 22, 2009; by R. Guyovich

I mean to be fair, the American government affects our lives about as much as our own does. They're probably doing more good trying to get someone who's not an actual monster elected in America than they would be by bashing their heads against the wall that is trying to get something positive accomplished in Canada.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 20:16

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007; nesaM killed Masen

ChairMaster posted:

I mean to be fair, the American government affects our lives about as much as our own does. They're probably doing more good trying to get someone who's not an actual monster elected in America than they would be by bashing their heads against the wall that is trying to get something positive accomplished in Canada.

They're literally doing zero good by getting involved with American campaigns, not to mention breaking the law if they donate. So no, it's not better.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 20:19

ChairMaster: Aug 22, 2009; by R. Guyovich

When's weed gonna be legal, anyways? Bunny you piece of poo poo what was even the point of the last election.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 20:20

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

The point of the last election is that the Conservatives are 1) a bit too suspicious of foreigners and 2) a bit too heavy handed to wholesale sell out the country. Fortunately the Liberals are here to trick low-info voters into thinking they've chosen a "progressive" government. The Liberals will sell policies that the Conservatives could never dream of getting away with:

quote:

Glavin: The Liberals are being shifty about China

Here�s a foreign policy challenge for you.

What is the most effective way for Canada�s new Liberal government to manipulate public opinion so as to manufacture enthusiasm for ever more supine diplomatic and trade relationships with the unelected billionaires who control the economy, the state security apparatus, the news media and the overseas acquisitions arms of the People�s Republic of China?

Specifically, how should Canada�s various federal departments and agencies best allocate their resources on Beijing�s behalf to confound the incorrigible devotion of ordinary Canadians to such quaint notions as the universality of human rights? How can the Canadian fondness for liberal democratic ideals be subordinated to the interests of that exceedingly well-connected cohort within Canada�s corporate sector that has banked its fortunes on the continued enrichment China�s gluttonous ruling class?

It�s quite a challenge, as you might imagine, but ever since Justin Trudeau landed in the Prime Minister�s Office last October, the project has been taken up by the self-replenishing coterie of former and current politicians, diplomats and senior civil servants, endowment-lucky academics, seminar-convenors and lobbyists associated with the Canadian Council of Chief Executives, the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada and, of course, the Canada-China Business Council.

For several weeks now, the new Global Affairs ministry has been quietly undertaking a root-and-branch re-evaluation of Canada�s myriad relationships with China. Not much attention has been drawn to it. You didn�t hear anything about it during last fall�s federal election campaign. It doesn�t show up in the mandate letters Trudeau issued to Global Affairs Minister St�phane Dion or International Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland. No mention of it was made in the new government�s throne speech in December.

�This strikes me as being on purpose,� Charles Burton, Brock University�s veteran China analyst and specialist in human rights and comparative politics, told me the other day. �The idea is to take the human rights and social agenda and make it separate from everything else, to make it just lip service, to make it useless. I think there is something like a cover-up going on here. This is beyond the ordinary.�

A full-bore free-trade deal with the Beijing regime is on the table, along with the proposition that Canada should back China�s admission into the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, enter into a collaboration between the Chinese military and the Canadian Forces so intimate that Canadian officers would be on a �first-name basis� with their Chinese counterparts, and enact a �public energy transportation corridor� in Canada, operated by the private sector, to satisfy Beijing�s insistence on access to Canadian energy resources.

Owing to the surfeit of public opinion polling data suggesting that Canadians would take a very dim view of this sort of thing, the most strenuous exertion in message-concoction and re-branding will be required to help us all learn to like it. Dion and Freeland are getting all sorts of advice on how to go about that, too.

In the run-up to last October�s federal vote, a document stamped secret and expediently leaked from the foreign affairs bureaucracy bemoaned a standoffish and suspicious attitude towards Chinese capital and influence in Canada that was occasionally articulated Prime Minister Stephen Harper, sometimes shared by Tom Mulcair�s New Democrats, almost always by Elizabeth May�s Greens, and overwhelmingly, by Canadians themselves. The document warned that the full embrace of Beijing that Canada�s China trade lobby and the bureaucracy envisioned would require �leading public opinion on a controversial relationship and devoting less bandwidth to other regions and relationships.�

It was that same bureaucracy that joined with Trudeau in celebrating the intrusion of China�s state-owned enterprises (SOEs) into Canada�s resource sector during the fierce 2011-2012 debates that divided even the Conservative cabinet and caucus. Harper eventually opted for a red light on further SOE acquisitions after the colossal $15-billion takeover of Calgary�s Nexen Energy by the China National Offshore Oil Corporation. Bureaucrats burst into hurrahs during Trudeau�s post-election visit to the Lester B. Pearson Building on Sussex Drive last November, and were especially pleased when Trudeau chose Peter Harder, former president of the Canada-China Business Council, to lead his transition team.

Here�s where we are now.

�We have to move beyond basing our criticisms of Chinese SOE behaviour on the notion of the preservation of an existing liberal and fair economic order.� This is according to Pascale Massot, policy adviser to Dion. Massot�s advice appears in a submission, headlined The Political Economy of Canadian Public Opinion on China, in a compendium of dramatic policy proposals making the rounds in Global Affairs Canada. It�s titled Moving Forward: Issues in Canada-China Relations.

Among other things, Massot recommends: �Challenge our perception of developed countries� ﬁrm behaviour as liberal and of Chinese ﬁrm behaviour as illiberal while encouraging global and sustainable Chinese competitiveness.� In a list of image-makeover initiatives Canada should undertake on Beijing�s behalf, Massot proposes that a recasting of China as a �fully-fledged global player� like any of Canada�s traditional partners and a �potential collaborator in the pursuit of the many goals Canada is seeking to achieve,� for instance, will �resonate with the Canadian public.�

Well, good luck with that. Opinion polls show that the more Canadians learn about the Chinese regime, the less they like it. Familiarity seems to breed contempt. The more Chinese money sloshes around in Canada, the less Canadians want it. Polls undertaken by the Pew Research Centre show China�s favorability rating among Canadians, 58 per cent a decade ago, had dropped 20 points by last year. Only 14 per cent of Canadians like the idea of a Chinese state-owned enterprise gaining control of a major Canadian company.

Canadians are anxious about China�s cyber-attacks on Canadian institutions, about the increasingly wicked repression Beijing is inflicting on the Chinese people, and about the implications for Canadian society of a more powerful, more outwardly aggressive regime headed by the megalomaniac Xi Jinping. So what should Ottawa do?

�The narrative for deeper engagement should be rewritten.� That recommendation comes from a submission co-authored by Wendy Dobson, former associate deputy finance minister, and Paul Evans, a China specialist and professor of international relations at the University of British Columbia. �The most difficult part is explaining the necessity of living with China rather than expecting or requiring major changes in its basic institutions, even as we try to advance concepts like the rule of law and good governance and protect Canadian values and institutions at home.�

But should the federal government devote resources to any elaborate exercise instructing Canadians on how they should think about China, and telling us not be so fussy about the distinction between liberal governments and illiberal regimes? Should our own government be teaming up with foreign-tied lobbyists, partisan bureaucrats and vested business interests in public-relations campaigns designed to build popular support for the policies those interests and lobbyists and bureaucrats want the government to adopt?

Isn�t it supposed to be the other way around?

Terry Glavin is an author and journalist.

We're going to sell our natural resources to the actual economies of the world for dirt cheap and our reward will be the new global oligarchy treating our real estate as their private savings accounts, pricing us out of our own cities.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 20:25

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

The law prohibiting Canadians from influencing american elections is for all intents and purposes unenforceable. It is a bad law for this reason.

You can argue it is poor form and manners for a Canadian politician, but the whole thing seems absurd based on all the things we know about american involvement in foreign elections in TYOOL 2016.

So maybe get off your high horses and move on?

# ? Jun 6, 2016 20:26

Meat Recital: Mar 26, 2009; by zen death robot

With assisted suicide legal and weed illegal, I'm strongly considering the former.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 20:31

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Hey man at least we didn't get Mulcair's Hidden Austerity Agenda

# ? Jun 6, 2016 20:44

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

THC posted:

Hey man at least we didn't get ~~Mulcair's~~ Thatcher's Hidden Austerity Agenda

# ? Jun 6, 2016 21:06

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Can't believe I'm scooping ikantski on this one:

quote:

Tories accuse Ontario Liberals of rewarding supporters with government contracts

TORONTO � The Progressive Conservatives say Premier Kathleen Wynne rewarded the Liberal campaign co-chair in the 2014 Ontario election with nearly $900,000 in government contracts.

Opposition Leader Patrick Brown said he was shocked to learn David Herle and his Gandalf Group consulting firm got contracts for $836,000 and $49,000 from the cabinet office, and suspected other ministries gave Herle contracts as well.

�Does the premier have an ounce of ethics left?� Brown asked during question period. �Does the premier think it is acceptable to hand out $1-million worth of contracts to her Liberal pals and cronies?�

Brown called it another example of how the Liberals crossed ethical lines, and said it was inappropriate to reward their friends and party insiders with taxpayer money.

�The Liberals and this premier will do absolutely anything to hold onto power,� he said. �The only thing the Liberals care about is their own political survival.�

Wynne said governments of all political stripes use market research and polling firms, and pointed out that Ontario has contracts with at least six other research companies, including a $2 million deal with Ipsos Reid.

�All of that market research and public opinion research conducted by the government is procured through a fair, transparent and competitive process,� she told the legislature. �The final decision about which vendor is best-suited for a project is made by a committee of at least three non-partisan public servants.�

Brown wasn�t impressed with Wynne�s claim that the government has given out many other polling and consulting contracts to other firms besides Gandalf.

NDP Leader Andrea Horwath said Wynne�s biggest concern is how to make things better for the Liberal party and making sure her friends and party insiders �do very, very well, while the rest of the province falls apart.�

�Her priority is always the Liberal party and well-connected Liberals,� said Horwath.

Herle was not available to comment Monday, but the Gandalf Group sent an email saying the company does not normally discuss work commissioned by its clients either in the public or private sector.

�Our firm was confirmed as one of the government�s vendors of record after a capabilities evaluation and a request for proposals was issued to qualified firms,� said Gandalf Group vice president Alex Swann.

Wynne didn�t say if Gandalf had other Ontario government contracts, but defended the need to conduct market research to look at the impact of policies, and said the contracts were awarded in a competitive process.

�There have to be five vendors,� she said. �A choice is made by public servants. It�s not a partisan process.�

The New Democrats said it�s not the first time Liberals have rewarded their supporters, especially big donors to the governing party.

�We had movers and shakers in the banking industry who gave a lot of money to the Liberal party and then proceeded to make a lot of money in the sale of Hydro One,� said Horwath. �The Liberals� priority is the Liberal Party of Ontario.�

# ? Jun 6, 2016 23:14

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

There are people quietly making bootleg shirts explicitly so that they can go to foreign nationals.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 23:17

Pixelante: Mar 16, 2006; You people will by God act like a team, or at least like people who know each other, or I'll incinerate the bunch of you here and now.

Sophie is singing self-referential jazz and Mulcair's dropping mics. :psyduck:

# ? Jun 6, 2016 23:38

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Helsing posted:

Can't believe I'm scooping ikantski on this one:

That's not even the most annoying thing they did this week, link the Suzuki ad for the not yet released program that the AG wouldn't have approved or the minister who retired under the crushing privilege of having a wiener.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 23:47

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

flakeloaf posted:

But he's gone now, let's see what the New New New NDP are up to these days

https://twitter.com/nikiashton/status/739508970386137088

Parliament should censor her.

Also it's getting pretty clear why the NDP lost the last election.

# ? Jun 6, 2016 23:48

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Because people are dumb shits who think parliament can "censor" its members?

# ? Jun 6, 2016 23:57

brucio: Nov 22, 2004

Hey guys

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-ndp-leadership

quote:

Outspoken Ontario MPP Cheri DiNovo will be first to enter race for federal NDP leadership

"Outspoken" because she thinks Mulcair and Horwath are garbage

# ? Jun 7, 2016 00:02

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Cheri DiNovo is cool and I hope she wins.

If anyone wishes to attack her from the left, I'm told she's an ardent Israel supporter.

# ? Jun 7, 2016 00:07

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# ? May 19, 2024 23:43

Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

brucio posted:

Hey guys

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-ndp-leadership

"Outspoken" because she thinks Mulcair and Horwath are garbage

AFAIK she doesn't speak any french, though, so I can't in good conscience vote for her, but I'm glad she'll be in the race.

# ? Jun 7, 2016 00:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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