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FaustianQ posted:For the most part I was picking numbers out of a hat, as I don't know the nitty gritty of the numbers for the game. I put 40/20 because I wasn't sure how they'd get factored in, so I'd rather put something substantial and then work it down from there, instead of 10/5%. Also I was trying to pick between speed and survivability because between armor and health doesn't change how a team can approach a session, or even boss. If it was between armor and health, it'd be an equally useless ability for in example say Hans, while a speed option means the Hans fight gets way more tolerable as collectively the team can now outpace him. your point about hans isn't wrong but i also think that balancing against hans's current incarnation is ridiculous because basically nobody argues the assertion that he ruins the game (even tripwire doesn't, publicly anyway) - any work that gets done with regard to him should be done to make him more fun overall.
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Jun 5, 2016 21:21
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Alright, here's what I've come up with in between dealing with customers. Anywho, new commando skills. Level 5 title pending *Always Prepared Commando gains 50% magazine capacity, +20% total capacity for perk weapons, and +1 grenade capacity. Squad gains +10% total ammo capacity and +1 grenade capacity. *Fast Hands Commando reloads, swaps weapons and brings up iron sights 50% faster, squad gets 25% boosts iron sight and weapon swap, and 10% to reload. Level 10 Physical Training *Squad Endurance Training Commando gets +40 max armor, squad gets +20. Both receive 50% less move speed reduction from weight (I.e. Carrying 15 blocks of weapons won't slow you down as much). Perk is basically meant to be "hey, you can carry more stuff without it affecting you as much" *Squad Resistance Training Commando gains +30% resistance to fire, bullets, explosives, and bloat bile, and 10% decrease to physical damage. Squad gains 20% resist to assorted damage types and no resistance to physical. Level 15 FRAGORD *Suppressive Fire Same as before, +150% stumble chance And +200% duration, but squad gains boosts to stumble chance depending on what perk they are. (Would have to work out exact amounts) *Enfilade Fire: Any target hit by commando is "marked" for 3 seconds and suffers +25% damage from any source other than the original commando. Additionally, any weapons capable of penetration, (I.e. Not flamethrowers or demo weapons) will penetrate marked target and hit for 50% of normal damage, including original commando's. Level 20 Offensive Tactics * shock trooper training Commando gets +25% damage, ROF, and recoil reduction, and +5% move speed. Squad gets +10% reload, ROF and recoil reduction. No move bonus. Stacks with previous perks for commando, does not for squad mates. * Grenadier training Commando gets +2 grenade capacity. Grenades have 25% more damage and blast radius. Squad mates get +1 grenade and +10% dmg and blast radius. Capacity boost stacks with Always Prepared for entire squad. Level 25 Zed Time * Rally! Entire squad gains +20% move and damage resistance, all healing is 50% more effective. (Designed to give an injured team a few seconds to heal and regroup, probably not that useful on lower difficulties but could be helpful on higher ones) *Rout them! Squad damage, ROF and reload boosted by 10%. All attacks have high chance of stumbling, stunning or panicking non-boss Zeds once zed time ends. The numbers probably need a bit of fiddling, along with what level you unlock the perks maybe, and since I don't know jack about coding I'm not even sure if some parts of the perks are even possible in the games engine, namely adding weapon penetration to a single target rather than to a weapon, and the weight move speed reduction. Another big concern I have is that while I aimed to have each individual perk's squad bonuses be pretty reasonable, I get the feeling that adding them all up in a level 25 commando would result in seriously overpowered teammates, so I'd probably reduce those numbers a bit. I'd also say the zed time perks need some work. I definitely like the idea of one revolving around letting the team heal and regroup in zed time, and the other involve panicking or stunning Zeds. I would also have to find some way to keep multiple commandos from rendering an entire team op. Maybe only allow one of the two perks on each tier to take affect, and not have said perks affect other commandos? InequalityGodzilla fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 23:08
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each tier "does not stack" or "only takes effect once" or whatever?
Psion fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 23:25
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Psion posted:each tier "does not stack" or "only takes effect once" or whatever?
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Jun 5, 2016 23:34
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I'm still excited by the idea of SWAT. But my primary worries, as ever, will be if they get saddled with an ineffectual flash bang (Because in videogames, Swat = Flashbang! But not having to worry about a pound rushing out of a tiny radius is too casual!), or that any of their on perk weapons may need two bullets to headshot trash. I know that the Medic SMG is amazing. But Jesus Christ is it depressing needing two bullets to kill so much as a clot even if I can fire medic darts in the process. More ammo and a high rate of fire is hardly comforting when you still need twice as many bullets as a varmint rifle to put down trash, and that's if you are robocop landing nothing but double taps to the skull without any wasted ammo. Basically, more ammo is only satisfying to me personally when you don't need twice as much of it in the first place to kill the weakest enemies in the game. So if the SWAT's tier 1 ends up something like "Imagine if the Bullpup needed TWO headshots to kill trash!", ugh.
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Jun 6, 2016 00:46
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Section Z posted:I'm still excited by the idea of SWAT. But my primary worries, as ever, will be if they get saddled with an ineffectual flash bang (Because in videogames, Swat = Flashbang! But not having to worry about a pound rushing out of a tiny radius is too casual!), or that any of their on perk weapons may need two bullets to headshot trash. Edit: yeah, they do, along with martial artist, which sounds dumb as all hell. Sure, let's use Kung fu in the zombie apocalypse, sure that'll go great. Maybe I'm just prejudiced because I hated playing berserker in KF1 and am ambivalent about it in 2. InequalityGodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jun 6, 2016 |
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Jun 6, 2016 01:03
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Martial Artist sounds like a rad concept, I wanna roundhouse heads off to the sound of Bruce Lee wails.
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Jun 6, 2016 01:13
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InequalityGodzilla posted:Wait, they have a SWAT class planned? I really haven't kept up with any news about the game that wasn't released in the past month or so. Yup. Though I expect all my "20?? Swat release" complaints will be far overshadowed by old KF1 Shapshooter Pros who will flip their poo poo if it takes so much as one millisecond longer for them to solo a 6 man HoE fleshpound at any point in KF2's development. That said, Crossbow gunslinger is looking pretty cool at the moment. LuciferMorningstar posted:Ask me how much I care about bothering with hitting Scrakes in the head with rockets. Still, I expect that railgun to be more overall practical for general gameplay than "What if we balance this gun by making it cost $6,250 to reload?"
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Jun 6, 2016 01:17
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quote:Melee Weapons (slashing and blunt): Good against Stalkers. Worse against Clot variants, Gorefasts, Crawlers, Sirens, Husks, and Scrakes. Bad against Bloats. High flinch/hit effect power. Heh
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Jun 6, 2016 03:06
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InequalityGodzilla posted:
I hated Zerker in 1 but it's far and away my favourite class in two. There's no comparison really. It's more rewarding to play and can do a lot more, by design and also by mechanical skill. The biggest helper is that you level up so much more quickly so you're not stuck in that painful 5-15 rut where the lower difficulties are too easy and boring but you don't do enough damage to really enjoy the higher ones. Once you hit 20 and start smashing everything then it's pretty much the most fun you can have with the game.
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Jun 6, 2016 03:11
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Awright saw the list last night and was to tired to muster much other than a chuckle over melee weapons only doing best Stalkers(an enemy that's already made out of paper), so let's take a more in depth look at this disaster.quote:Dreadnaught - Increased health by 50% Pretty big no brainer here, Skirmisher wins hands down, zerk without speed is like support without shotguns, its stupid and dumb, the health regen is a good bonus as well. quote:Vampire - Heal yourself 4 points of health for every zed you kill with a Berserker weapon, also attack 15% faster with Berserker weapons Once again, no brainer, butcher wins hands down especially in combo with Skirmisher making the 4 health regen for every dead zed pointless. quote:Level 15: Do I even need to say it? Removing the zerker's passive damage resistance and turning it into a skill means EVERYONE is going to take resistance, never mind the fact that without it you would be in worst shape than zerker was when the game launched. quote:Level 20: This one's actually tricky, you'll be doing light attacks most of the time but you're gonna want the extra damage on the hard attacks when dealing with big poo poo. quote:Level 25: Rage for sure, nothing beats going apeshit on a huge crowd in zed time when attacking at real time. Overall the changes are incredibly stupid and continues to show Tripwire's lack of understanding on the zerker class, they basically took the core aspects of it and turned it into perks, it doesn't really fix the zerk wall issue which is something a lot of people complained about and you're still forced into the no brainer choices instead of actual variety which I imagine was their intended goal, seriously a no damage resistance slow zerk is not a zerk, you might as well play literally any other class than zerker. The zwei is still an over nerfed piece of poo poo, the pulverizer is still extremely powerful albeit carries less ammo, the eviscerator is 100% worthless and nobody uses it and you're better served buying a medic gun or medic AR to help your team and not the nailgun, so in terms of weapons nothing will change. The changes to zerk are even funnier when presented alongside the sharp tree given that for all intents, sharp looks like its going to be stupidly overpowered on top of pretty much pointing out that firebugs will become gods this next patch as well with the damage resistance stuff. The real problem is of course the raw numbers, when they mean by worst at, what does it signify? How much damage are we losing in terms of %, knowing tripwire it probably means zerker weapons will do like 90% less damage on everything or some retarded poo poo but I'd rather have real numbers, this whole worst at, best at stuff is just super loving stupid. Either way I'm enjoying the garbage fire the game continues to be and Tripwire flushing all their goodwill down the toilet with stupid decision after stupid decision and I somehow doubt this will be the last of the zerker changes we're going to see though I imagine we'll see those around 2017, provided they don't abandon the game anyway. Oh and a fair warning to console folks, be wary, after Payday 2 went unpatched for years on the last gen consoles and the crimewave editions for the current ones haven't received a single patch either and where broken for months on launch, I wouldn't trust a PC centric dev very much, wait and see if they keep supporting it or they'll release it in the state its in and let it rot like I expect them to(though I hope not.)
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Jun 6, 2016 23:08
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Yeah, while I like the changes to Commando, I feel Tripwire is really making GBS threads the bed by changing the Zerker, since it is one class that was "just right" in terms of being fun to play as.
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Jun 7, 2016 03:34
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ZearothK posted:Yeah, while I like the changes to Commando, I feel Tripwire is really making GBS threads the bed by changing the Zerker, since it is one class that was "just right" in terms of being fun to play as. What I think is the best methodology is just to stop, look at what skills people are picking an overwhelming majority of the time, and buff their alternative to their level of usefulness instead of A) nerfing the good skills so nobody is happy and B) stop throwing out the skills entirely and try again with a completely different set of skills and hope for the best.
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Jun 7, 2016 07:57
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Theta Zero posted:What I think is the best methodology is just to stop, look at what skills people are picking an overwhelming majority of the time, and buff their alternative to their level of usefulness instead of A) nerfing the good skills so nobody is happy and B) stop throwing out the skills entirely and try again with a completely different set of skills and hope for the best. And here I am kinda stunned they'd nerf the zwei instead of just adding it as an alternate T4 for the Zerk. I mean, if people yelled "PAY TO WIN" at your weapon, wouldn't you want to make said weapon available to everything? Plus Evis is still A Thing so you might as well make it an alternate T4 instead of clip its balls. poo poo. This got me thinking. Why's the common response to certain things "nerf them" instead of "do something that requires thought"? I mean, unless A Thing is at it's core straight overpowered, is nerfing it the only real solution? I mean, this is a PVE game. Aren't you supposed to go for the overpowered things, especially near the end of a match? widespread fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 08:27
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widespread posted:And here I am kinda stunned they'd nerf the zwei instead of just adding it as an alternate T4 for the Zerk. I mean, if people yelled "PAY TO WIN" at your weapon, wouldn't you want to make said weapon available to everything? Plus Evis is still A Thing so you might as well make it an alternate T4 instead of clip its balls. Because spergs want the game to be literally unbeatable. It's the same crowd of shitlords who tried to ruin everything fun about KF 1 because it was "too easy" to a super small minority of the player base.
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Jun 7, 2016 08:38
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It's easier to nerf just a single good thing than to buff everything up to its level. If you do try to buff everything up, you have more variables which can throw the game's balance out of whack. In terms of the eviscerator, I only ever use it for bosses because of its high blocking threshold. It's incredibly awful as a weapon for multiple reasons, primarily the weight. There's no purpose for the thing whatsoever. What it essentially does is remove your ability to have crowd control with the Pulverizer, target elimination with the Zweihander, and replaces it with a weapon that does both but worse. Shooting sawblades is awful because the laser sight is worthless and it barely does any damage anyways; the chainsaw function is awful because it's limited, works only on a signal target, doesn't immediately kill, and usually doesn't even stun them; and the melee bash is a downright joke which works about as well as a hard crovel swing (minus being able to handle multiple targets). There's no reason for the thing to exist because blocking, and often even that isn't worth the gimped killpower. When I'm looking at a weapon or a skill I don't use, I like to do thought exercises where I imagine making whatever it's good for as broken as reasonably possible, and then consider if I would use it even then. My favorite example is the level 25 support perks where you do 15% more damage or have 5% improved armor in zed time. If the armor skill made you outright invincible during zed time, I still wouldn't pick it, which tells me there's a fundamental flaw with the skill rather than the issue being a straight problem with the values. Thinking of the Eviscerator, if it, say, blocked 100% of all damage and always stumbled on parry, only then would I consider (and just consider) using it over the Zwei/Pulv combo in normal play just because its killpower is awful. While it may be based on my own personal bias, that should at least be telling of the weapon's overall usefulness. Theta Zero fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Jun 7, 2016 |
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Jun 7, 2016 08:43
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So before it gets messed with again, I've been playing Berserker. I'm level 18 right now, I usually keep a pulverizer and a crossbow on me because my crappy mouse wheel won't let me parry. I can't seem to find my rhythm around wave 8 so I usually end up switching support. What's the "preferred" loadout for the class? Someone posted some tips for attacks a couple of pages ago, but I can't seem to find it. What's the best way to maximize my damage?
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Jun 7, 2016 09:01
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Foreskin Problems posted:So before it gets messed with again, I've been playing Berserker. I'm level 18 right now, I usually keep a pulverizer and a crossbow on me because my crappy mouse wheel won't let me parry. I can't seem to find my rhythm around wave 8 so I usually end up switching support. What's the "preferred" loadout for the class? Someone posted some tips for attacks a couple of pages ago, but I can't seem to find it. What's the best way to maximize my damage? If by "loadout" you mean just weapons, I use Pulverizer and Zweihander, but my Berserker is very parry-focused, so the only advice is to otherwise rebind your block button to something you can use. Using my loadout, you can run with a Medic pistol or even an SMG if I remember correctly to heal teammates and use as an emergency gun. I use a lot of heavy attacks and almost never any light attacks, so my primary method it to use the Zweihander to handle normal zeds (doing sideways swings to small enemies, downwards swings for Sirens and Husks, and the poke for Crawlers and Bloats) and swap to the Pulverizer for Scrakes and Fleshpounds. Scrakes resist explosives, but they are weak to bludgeoning and also resist slashing. I haven't done the math to tell if smacking them with the Pulverizer is better, but it works just as well as the Zweihander (or at least close enough that I don't notice a difference).
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Jun 7, 2016 09:09
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I may be a scrub, but I use the Nailgun as trash removal and when something bigger pops out I whack it with the Pulverizer. Also pick up a medic weapon at some point and bam, I'm done. Why the Nailgun instead of a Zweihander? Cause it lets you keep distance, and as it was said upthread with the movespeed, if something is a choice between get attacked/don't get attacked, the latter option is usually superior. Also it shoots nails that ricochet and stab everything in the room in the eyes and if you don't think it's the pinnacle of the KF2 experience then you're playing the wrong game.
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Jun 7, 2016 11:55
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I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, but I still think the best way to adjust Zerker from where it is right now is to take the skills no one uses anyway and switch them with bonuses to the Nail Gun/Eviscerator, to make ranged Zerker a possibility and giving half its arsenal an actual reason to exist. Like increased penetration, ammo or extra damage for hits to critical areas from ranged Zerker weapons, something to make those weapons relevant.
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Jun 7, 2016 11:56
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:
I wonder how much games like DOOM effect these numbers? I know I uninstalled KF2 to make room for DOOM. But now that I've beaten DOOM on nightmare, and have given up on its multiplayer because it's poo poo I'll be uninstalling it and getting KF2 again on my SSD.
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Jun 9, 2016 03:34
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Ramsus posted:I wonder how much games like DOOM effect these numbers? I know I uninstalled KF2 to make room for DOOM. But now that I've beaten DOOM on nightmare, and have given up on its multiplayer because it's poo poo I'll be uninstalling it and getting KF2 again on my SSD. Well, SteamDB says there are ~939 players online right now, and the graph shows a steady decline in players. It's not like there was a huge drop when DOOM was released.
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Jun 9, 2016 03:42
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Ramsus posted:I wonder how much games like DOOM effect these numbers? I know I uninstalled KF2 to make room for DOOM. But now that I've beaten DOOM on nightmare, and have given up on its multiplayer because it's poo poo I'll be uninstalling it and getting KF2 again on my SSD. Probably not much. KF2 is a multiplayer PvE while DOOM is a mishmash of SP and MP (complete with a version of GMod sorta). There's probably other games that could whittle down the numbers better. Maybe people reinstalled Payday 2? 
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Jun 9, 2016 04:46
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Personally, it was Overwatch that finally dragged me away from KF2.
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Jun 9, 2016 15:09
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I uninstalled Payday awhile ago. Insurgency dragged me away from KF 2 though.
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Jun 9, 2016 15:14
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I think Payday 2's added more content to their game than KF2 has, if you just start measuring when KF2's early access phase started. That said, Luchadork posted:it was Overwatch that finally dragged me away from
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Jun 9, 2016 15:33
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Well, that came out of nowhere. Bullseye Preview Opt-in Beta is going live today.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:10
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ZearothK posted:Well, that came out of nowhere. quote:
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 I don't see any mention of any other change to the fight. Does he still randomly decide to instantly remove players from the fight? Of course he does.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:30
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quote:Reduced gorefast headless damage 50% and reduced the attack speed yeah and thanks for it. That was stupid and I really hope my gifv helped turn the tide because gently caress. on the other hand... quote:LAR - Sped up bolt time change #1: good! It's now a better offperk weapon. change #2: reducing the only real strength the crossbow has as an offperk = ??? I don't get that, but maybe it's part of that whole new "incapacitate value builds up" thing they have going on. Of course if that requires multiple bolts on an enraged scrake or FP, hahaha. let's hope it doesn't but uh. well. Psion fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 17:35
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Psion posted:yeah and thanks for it. That was stupid and I really hope my gifv helped turn the tide because gently caress. It will probably retain a similar stunning power when paired with the Sharpshooter skill that increases stun. Anyways, soon we can bitch about things in practice instead of in theory.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:48
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We'll have to test and see how the crossbow stun has changed because remember that this update adds the cumulative stun mechanic so it might not be too noticeable. I do still think the crossbow is a little OP in the hands of medics.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:50
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Psion posted:I don't get that, but maybe it's part of that whole new "incapacitate value builds up" thing they have going on. Of course if that requires multiple bolts on an enraged scrake or FP, hahaha. let's hope it doesn't but uh. well. I don't think non-Sharpshooters should be able to one-shot-stun Scrakes/FPs out of rage with a crossbow. I forget, did they reveal what the Sharpshooter level bonuses are? Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 17:51
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The crossbow's off-perk stun on headshot will probably go away as soon as the Sharpshooter is released, I figure.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:13
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Does anyone have a picture of the new boss health bar? Idiots on reddit are up in arms (RIP commando!!!!!) and I want to see what it looks like. I honestly don't know how it could possibly be a bad feature.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:42
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Lemon-Lime posted:I don't think non-Sharpshooters should be able to one-shot-stun Scrakes/FPs out of rage with a crossbow. Right, yeah, that's a fair point. Also the bonuses are: +% headshot damage, reload speed bonus, and recoil reduction. Propaganda Hour posted:Does anyone have a picture of the new boss health bar? Idiots on reddit are up in arms (RIP commando!!!!!) and I want to see what it looks like. I honestly don't know how it could possibly be a bad feature. It's not. It's a loving fantastic addition. Commando has greater problems than not being able to tell you something's hp over voip. Other things: Sirens and bloats seem too resistant to M14 fire. Solo HOE, Anywhere from 4-6(?) rounds to drop either? Nahhhh. Nah. I need to test more but if that's the case, hell no. Railgun has a lockon mode which is a little fiddly but if you lock onto an FP's weakpoint oh boy. It has trouble with target-lock, especially on enemies with multiple weakpoints (Husk, FP, Hans) so refining target selecting (and then keeping that target) would be lovely. M14 has a laser and a scope. Best of both! Psion fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 18:46
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ClonedPickle posted:
Yoshiro just got done posting his second post of patch notes (this is honest a huge patch from a balance perspective) and here's the Han's specific changes copied from the change list. Hans Hans has gotten a serious rework. you now can and want to destroy his shield before he grabs someone for a heal.) reduced melee damage to 62 (was75) Increased nerve gas damage to 8 (was7) Increased guns damage to 10 (was8) Hans melee targeting is now 5sec (was6) INcreased chest and backpack weakzone by 25% AOE attack 70 damage was 50 AOE fall off 1.0 was 0.25 Normal Damage mod 0.5 (was 0.437500) Hard Damage mod 0.65 (was 0.7) Suicidal damage mod 0.8 (was 1.062) Hell on Earth Damage mod 1 (was 1.268750) That's not including the general changes to the resist and incap systems but as you can see there's some major changes to his damage and his difficulty scaling, not to mention that whole thing where you can prevent and interrupt his healing. (I'm a fan of breaking his heal with a well timed RPG to the face). I think the fight is a lot more fun now but give it a try yourself.
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Jun 9, 2016 19:55
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What does Hans melee targeting mean, specifically? How long he takes to pick or how long he chases a target or ???
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Jun 9, 2016 20:05
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What's AOE falloff? Does that mean the radius is tighter or something?
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Jun 9, 2016 20:45
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Psion posted:What does Hans melee targeting mean, specifically? How long he takes to pick or how long he chases a target or ??? How long he pursues a target before re-calculating his target priority. Propaganda Hour posted:What's AOE falloff? Does that mean the radius is tighter or something? How rapidly damage falls off from the center of the effect. Some weapons may have rapid fall off requiring precise aim for an instant kill and some weapons will have slower fall off making them ideal for dealing with big hordes.
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Jun 9, 2016 20:48
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Propaganda Hour posted:What's AOE falloff? Does that mean the radius is tighter or something? I believe so.
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Jun 9, 2016 20:49
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