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Insurgency co op owns if you just wanna shootmans in a semi realistic tacticlol fashion.
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Jun 11, 2016 05:57
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Skoll posted:Insurgency co op owns if you just wanna shootmans in a semi realistic tacticlol fashion. Very true, and Insurgency is one of the few games I've ever played where the PvP and PvE modes are both distinctly different and equally awesome
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Jun 11, 2016 06:11
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Vermintide is a very fun game concealed under the worst loot system ever devised by human hands. The loot I'm that game is very much that game's Hans - it would basically assuredly make the game more fun and actually playable for tons of people if they changed it up in one of a handful of very simple ways that are commonly suggested on the game's forums, but for whatever reason Fatshark thinks their current loot balance is absolutely critical to the game's integrity, which is colossally loving insane. Fortunately the game can be lua hacked so if you're willing to faff around with cheat engine you can just spawn loot for yourself, and if you do that you'll have a great time. Otherwise you might be one of the unlucky suckers that plays that game for 100+ hours and never gets a loving trinket because gently caress you that's why.
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Jun 11, 2016 06:34
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Coolguye posted:they say like 8 times that they value feedback and input, and then this update came out with no warning or input from anyone outside of their internal testing team and the rep comes in here and basically throws a huff that the feedback is negative. i've been saying for months that it looks like Tripwire has no interest whatsoever in actual dialog and feedback and the last few days have been proof positive. Just wanted to agree with this sentiment. I recall that, after we got the teaser regarding Demo changes and the resistance system, I went to the Tripwire forums to say what I had already said here. Yoshiro's response was to basically huffily state that "well, you don't have access to all the numbers, so you can't make effective conclusions yet." I suggested that numbers be more readily available, to which he responded "well, we're changing them on a day to day basis, so we can't really communicate anything useful to you." It's just another example of Tripwire working really, really hard to not involve anyone other than their internal testers in the development of an early access game. Pretty sure a bunch of people also explained that the Demo changes would be bad. Tripwire very obviously didn't listen, and it shows now. The hysterical part is that they seem to have discovered how to pass breakpoints for resistances, but not for perk buffs. For example: Berserkers can now select skills for things like +10% damage, but a majority of Zeds have ~50% resistance to most forms of melee damage.
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Jun 11, 2016 06:52
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More fun experiments in bad patches: -It is my experience that you can unload half a mag or more into a siren and not kill her as a gunslinger. -Firebug is now entirely based around microwave gun. Both of the flamethrower weapons are garbage, almost everything walks straight through it, which is really awesome when you already required to be at very close range. Total trap options. The t2 firebug shotty ends up being as good as the microwave gun because it doesn't have the same situational damage nerfs as the flamethrowers and the ammo lasts longer. I have no idea what in the gently caress Tripwire was thinking on this one. No one does. Hopefully the damage tables go away, and fast, but TW never seems to do anything fast. The rage from players is pretty much universal.
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Jun 11, 2016 08:06
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Like if I'm being honest with the glacial pace of updates in this game Tripwire could promise to totally revert or rework these systems and I'd know not to expect a proper solution until next year.
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Jun 11, 2016 08:13
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Geight posted:Like if I'm being honest with the glacial pace of updates in this game Tripwire could promise to totally revert or rework these systems and I'd know not to expect a proper solution until next year.
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Jun 11, 2016 08:18
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The whole thing is just completely baffling and disappointing. I've been looking forward to the SS for a year now: played it all the time in KF1 and now it's here I don't even want to reinstall. Wouldn't adding an extra modifier onto every gun and monster make it exponentially more difficult to balance from here on out? You can't just change damage output anymore. Why did they bother with this new quick balancing system if they were just going to instantly hamstring themselves right away?
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Jun 11, 2016 08:22
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I will say that the rollback today was welcome and Hans overall is actually kind of fun to play against now. What I like: -His overall damage is not as insane as it was. I noticed I actually had armor towards the end of the fights that I fought most conservatively in, when before it was usually gone after one machine gun burst. This is one of the points I was whining about before. -His melee can be dodged and it seems to rely more on cornering or separating players. -Health bar is welcome. Not the most elegant way to indicate you're doing damage, but it's just nice to know. -The barrier system is more welcome than I can express. I was expecting groups to tear him up with this mechanic, but it really only happened when there was a good mix of classes, which is a bonus. -His meta now seems to be about separating or cornering players while zeds are constantly spawning, and I have to say it works well. The groups that I've seen fail him have been due to getting split up, pressed up against a wall, and/or hunted down. Overall, I feel like re-working Hans did more for class balance than any of the perk updates did. I actually don't mind taking commando all the way through, now. As for criticism, there's the resistance system which was massively improved by the hotfix, but still feels wrong somehow. It's a disconnect and consistency issue. It reminds of those PS2-era console shooters where you'd have two enemies that look the same, yet one just takes ten times more bullets without flinching. Like I said, the hotfix improved things, but the feel is just off when for some reason a high-powered revolver is like a pea shooter against an enemy because of reasons. Support still feels weak ammo-wise and especially with the resistance system. It feels a little cheap when so many classes are doing well. and my AA-12 is out of ammo after a handful of scrakes/pounds. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 08:26
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After reading about Payday 2's current state in this thread, I'm playing it again and I'm liking it a lot more than KF2's resistance cluster-gently caress. I can headshot heavily-armed FBI guys easily with sweet pistols and blow them away with a cool anti-materiel rifle instead of watching short, naked women absorb my shotgun blasts and see most of my weapons feel useless. Guess I know what co-op horde game I'll be playing from now on.
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Jun 11, 2016 09:35
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I played a few games as Demo on Suicidal and my game plan very quickly turned into waiting for scrakes and FPs to show up and then murdering them. M79 and RPG do nothing against trash and there is a good chance your RPG will hit a stalker and fizzle anyway. Support feels extremely weak, but so does everyone so meh.
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Jun 11, 2016 10:04
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Changelog for patch v1. 1342 - Zeds are now divided into "Rock Zeds" and "Paper Zeds" and "Scissor Zeds" - Rock Zeds can only be killed by Paper weapons, and Scissor Zeds can only be killed by Rock weapons etc - only certain classes have access to each kind of weapon Our internal testing led us to believe this adds lots of creative challenges to team composition and gunplay. Across a deep and varied 5 hours of testing, it really enhanced game play. SWAT class coming in September. Here's a link to a weapon model!
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Jun 11, 2016 10:22
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Propaganda Hour posted:I played a few games as Demo on Suicidal and my game plan very quickly turned into waiting for scrakes and FPs to show up and then murdering them. M79 and RPG do nothing against trash and there is a good chance your RPG will hit a stalker and fizzle anyway. Don't you realize that the point of a class with explosives is to launch a single projectile with a tiny explosive radius via a weapon that can only load one projectile at a time to defeat large targets, not to use explosives to clear out groups of enemies? What is this, your first time playing a video game? 
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Jun 11, 2016 10:44
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closeted republican posted:After reading about Payday 2's current state in this thread, I'm playing it again and I'm liking it a lot more than KF2's resistance cluster-gently caress. I can headshot heavily-armed FBI guys easily with sweet pistols and blow them away with a cool anti-materiel rifle instead of watching short, naked women absorb my shotgun blasts and see most of my weapons feel useless. Guess I know what co-op horde game I'll be playing from now on. Seconding this. Go play nu-Payday, it's completely ridiculous (in a good way). Tripwire doesn't seem to understand that the people they should trust the least to have unbiased opinions about their games' systems are the people involved in building said systems. 'Internal balance testing' is inherently skewed by the fact that the designer (or someone they know) is likely present to explain away flaws and justify design decisions. As much as they claim to be paying attention to the data, they've justified a lot of their decisions by saying 'but it tested well internally' without understanding why that's an unacceptable explanation. It's incredibly frustrating, and I feel like it's to do with a corporate culture that won't change any time soon (assuming the studio even survives). Anyway that's my piece, I'm gonna go shoot some cops now instead of playing this broken-rear end game.
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Jun 11, 2016 15:12
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I only LAN-game KF2 with 5 buddies who come to my house, and one of them is not much of a FPS player. He absolutely loved playing as Demo in KF1 - he would wait for one of us to call in a strike and would hit the area with an M32 barrage and watch the gibs fly. It seems like new Demo is just a wet fart if everything just shrugs it off and keeps coming.
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Jun 11, 2016 16:07
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Propaganda Hour posted:I played a few games as Demo on Suicidal and my game plan very quickly turned into waiting for scrakes and FPs to show up and then murdering them. M79 and RPG do nothing against trash and there is a good chance your RPG will hit a stalker and fizzle anyway. Side note, how about that Grenade Pistol. It feels useful now as a trash remover. That and the dynamite now being on impact as well as bouncing, and the only reason a Demo dies is either to Hans or loving up an escape route.
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Jun 11, 2016 16:17
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Plan Z posted:Hans overall is actually kind of fun to play against now. What I like: The Hans change is good, but the hotfix is band-aiding. It doesn't address the core issues, and it needs to go further. Roll it into a Hardcore Survival mode, give it a 1.2xp multiplier, and bring back the soft resists (husk v firebug, etc) that were actually good and fun. like I find it hilarious (but mostly sad) that it used to be "have fun for 4/7/10 waves and then have a lovely boss experience" and now it's "have a lovely experience for 4/7/10 waves and then maybe have fun with a boss you used to hate." It's like they're deliberately getting it wrong. widespread posted:Side note, how about that Grenade Pistol. It feels useful now as a trash remover. That and the dynamite now being on impact as well as bouncing, and the only reason a Demo dies is either to Hans or loving up an escape route. what difficulty, because both the pistol (which was never great) and the dynamite (which was great) are terrible on Suicidal. A class based solely on explosives and most enemies have frustratingly high explosive resists? And no AOE to speak of, but then Yoshiro literally said the RPG is designed for point targets and not area of effect. What the gently caress lmao. like I've seen TWI employees play this game, and on stream some of them admitted "yeah some people think devs are the best at their own game but it's not true" and he was middlingly okay on Normal difficulty, so he was honest. And yet here we are with this system that ~playtested well internally~ with people who are bad at their own game. Psion fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 16:24
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I think that you guys might be missing something important: all of the design decisions that they make are constrained by the fact that they are planning on releasing KF2 on consoles. Why can't they add more simultaneous zeds? Consoles. Why can't the zeds be smarter? Consoles. Why does the new resistance system require you to spray an enemy with bullets rather than rewarding rapid headshots? Console players aim with controllers. The limitations of consoles place limitations on what Tripwire can do to add difficulty. They can't just make guns do less damage or give zeds more health, even though that's basically the only thing that they can do to tweak the level of difficulty, so the only changes they can make from here on out will be like this inane resistance system that effectively do just that.
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Jun 11, 2016 16:51
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THE CHORSE posted:I think that you guys might be missing something important: all of the design decisions that they make are constrained by the fact that they are planning on releasing KF2 on consoles. what year is it
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Jun 11, 2016 17:02
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It's this year right now and if you think they aren't targeting games for consoles and consoles don't impose limitations on those games I don't know what to tell you. Aren't Fallout 4 and SnapMap just the best, deepest gameplay experiences you've ever had?
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Jun 11, 2016 17:05
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Just played one round on normal and Sharpshooter is really good but I don't really get what I'm supposed to be doing with the Railgun. It's very powerful but the tiny ammo pool and the high weight means I can't do much else unless I want to level Gunslinger. Am I playing it wrong?
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Jun 11, 2016 17:15
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You skullfuck the big zeds with the railgun and use the Winchester on everything else. Pretty straightforward.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:21
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I went with the M203 and Crossbow instead. Really like how the new guns feel. Edit : Oh yeah and Zerk feels like compete rear end now. RIP my favourite class. Spermanent Record fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 17:29
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It's 2001 and controllers are impossible to use with an fps
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Jun 11, 2016 17:38
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Oh look, an Overwatch avatar. Yes please tell me all about how FPS games haven't been dumbed down for consoles. No competent developer would increase the size of the head hitbox to compensate for a lack of fine control, amirite?
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Jun 11, 2016 17:44
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KF has never not had gigantic hitboxes for headshots, have you ever played it?
Hace fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 17:51
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It's almost like that isn't a relevant point and you didn't read a word that I said... almost like you're aiming at something and not quite hitting it, but you think that you hit it anyway. Weird. Also, the head hitboxes in KF have always been fine enough to distinguish between shots to the chin and shots to the forehead, while Overwatch hitboxes don't distinguish between hits and misses.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:54
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THE CHORSE posted:Oh look, an Overwatch avatar. Yes please tell me all about how FPS games haven't been dumbed down for consoles. No competent developer would increase the size of the head hitbox to compensate for a lack of fine control, amirite? PC Masterrace 
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Jun 11, 2016 17:54
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THE CHORSE posted:It's almost like that isn't a relevant point and you didn't read a word that I said... almost like you're aiming at something and not quite hitting it, but you think that you hit it anyway. Weird. Weird example for you to bring up then dude.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:56
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KF2 is dumbed down in the ways that I said KF2 is being dumbed down. Overwatch is dumbed down in the way that I said Overwatch is dumbed down. They are dumbed down in different ways but for the same reason. Does that help? I also brought up Fallout 4 and SnapMap, which are limited in completely different ways. Is that too confusing for you? THE CHORSE fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 17:58
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Sorry, you were kind of vague while trying to be snarky, I thought you were trying to relate your point to the topic at hand and not just take a random potshot at a different game! Anyway I've played Killing Floor 2 with a controller pre-patch and I've had zero problems, since getting headshots is extremely simple. Also KF2 scales down to slower PCs really well so I don't understand how that would limit say a PS4 in terms of enemy count or AI. Just seems like a random assumption with no basis!
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Jun 11, 2016 18:05
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Hace posted:It's 2001 and controllers are impossible to use with an fps It's 2016 and they're still loving trash for FPSes.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:08
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They're fine
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Jun 11, 2016 18:09
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You're right, I could explain myself better (and not be an rear end). I'm basing the assumption on what I know about Payday 2 and the weird compromises that they had to make in order to keep the game running on Xbox 360 and PS3 long after that was a relevant concern, and then the ways that the game has been able to expand since they left that behind. There's still a PS4/Xbone version but they haven't updated it in foreverrrr and I don't think they're going to add everything from the PC version, so the game has gotten much larger maps with more varied objectives. poo poo has gotten weird in a really good way. I'm pretty sure TWI is planning a console release for KF2 at some point and I want to blame something, so consoles it is.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:10
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KF2 has(Had?) some of the most aggressive aim assists for controllers out there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UacamKZtyE
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Jun 11, 2016 18:17
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Yeah the old gen CPU/RAM stuff is really limiting, (look at the Shadow of Mordor port for 360/PS3, they completely gut the AI), but with modern consoles that shouldn't be a limitation, outside of extreme edge cases. I hadn't seen the Payday 2 stuff before, that's rough haha.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:19
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Hace posted:Yeah the old gen CPU/RAM stuff is really limiting, (look at the Shadow of Mordor port for 360/PS3, they completely gut the AI), but with modern consoles that shouldn't be a limitation, outside of extreme edge cases. I hadn't seen the Payday 2 stuff before, that's rough haha. I wanna say the Xbone could do with some more good stuff. PS4's fine however. Also imagine seeing General Winters on a console.... yeesh.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:23
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Resistances are a horrible concept - inherently unintuitive, usually frustratingly inconsistent, badly explained, terribly telegraphed in any game i've ever encountered them. They have been an annoyance since the first day of the beta, so the fact that they doubled down on that idea is disheartening. I'm happy they're using the beta steam branch to test drastic changes since i've been requesting that forever, but having an attitude of "yeah this idea is already set in stone, your feedback is only for secondary minor tweaking 6-9 months down the line" seems to defeat the entire point. So i can empathize with the people lashing out in frustration, it certainly feels like the only way to even register on their radar. The devs are pretty obviously hellbent on making the game something i (and evidently most of my friends i talked to) have no real interest in, which is a bummer that makes me wish there was a steam beta branch that just gave me access to the version of the game that existed in the first few weeks of open EA and let me ignore this last year of horrible missteps until this shakes out somewhere around 2019. I guess there's always KF1. On the plus side the last few pages really made me want to reinstall Payday 2 since apparently the shithead designer('s attitude) that drove me away from the game left. Gives me hope that KF2 might not be beyond redemption either! RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 19:17
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I'm warming up to KF2 right now. With recent changes and especially Hans, the game's in a better place than it has been in months. The only problems I have are the more ridiculous resistances and the sad state that Support/Demo are in.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:41
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Payday 2 thread is accepting refugees
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Jun 11, 2016 19:45
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