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eXXon posted:Wrong. Dion signed the export permits without which the deal could not have proceeded. He took full responsibility and gave an embarrassing, merciless and gutless defense: If a middle-class family in Aden or Sana'a is looking for a good-quality product, we want them to look at the maple leaf on an armoured fighting vehicle and say, ‘OK, it’s good quality.’
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Jun 11, 2016 17:47
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The overuse of the term middle class has really hit a point now where it has no meaning anymore. Every politician uses it to refer to everyone now. Thats not how the real world works. We wont have anyone working to fix the problems facing millions of Canadians in poverty if our people in charge cant even admit that we have poor people living in this country that are being crushed under the merciless boot of capitalism. I know this is a little off topic but sweet zombie Jesus I have never seen that word used as much as the Liberals have since being elected.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:14
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Furnaceface posted:I know this is a little off topic but sweet zombie Jesus I have never seen that word used as much as the Liberals have since being elected. If they stop broadly applying it to everyone people might look around and realize it doesn't exist
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Jun 11, 2016 18:50
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Leofish posted:Time makes fools of us all. Haha, the cons want their f-35s so bad. Anything would be better than those fat dumpster fires on wings. In all honesty much as I like the Rafale the super hornet is our best bet so I don't know why the opposition would be mad about getting a good long range bomb truck
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Jun 11, 2016 19:13
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ghosthorse posted:If they stop broadly applying it to everyone people might look around and realize it doesn't exist I think they way they use the word, it can be interchanged freely with land owner. I had the idea few weeks ago and no quote has proven me wrong so far. 
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Jun 11, 2016 19:41
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ghosthorse posted:If they stop broadly applying it to everyone people might look around and realize it doesn't exist It exists, just way more people identify as middle class than actually are. I know tons of working people who balk at the idea that they are only "upper lower". Anyone got reliable stats on it? Like I assume that it's only 20-30% of the population tops
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Jun 11, 2016 19:43
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THC posted:Canada's gonna have a civil race war just because white dudes don't get to feel like they're the literal best anymore Congratulations on being a useful idiot for the likes of white dudes like Bob Rennie and Gregor Robertson.
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Jun 11, 2016 20:01
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Black Bones posted:It exists, just way more people identify as middle class than actually are. I know tons of working people who balk at the idea that they are only "upper lower". http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil105a-eng.htm More like 15% A big part of the problem is that people are very resistant to the idea that "middle class" is not necessarily "median wage" and instead describes a certain set of financial circumstances and economic freedom
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Jun 11, 2016 20:59
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There are people richer than me, so I'm not upper class. There are people poorer too, so I'm not lower class, and besides who wants to be lower class. That's it. That's all people think about when they think middle class.
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Jun 11, 2016 21:58
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Helsing posted:All of this would take time and it would take some really terrible external events. I'm not saying this is our future. I'm just warning it's really stupid to cheerleader the growing anger and frustration of a powerful and well armed ethnic group with a history of controlling the state. We've seen that scenario play out before and it's rarely pretty for anyone involved.
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Jun 11, 2016 22:10
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Furnaceface posted:The overuse of the term middle class has really hit a point now where it has no meaning anymore. Every politician uses it to refer to everyone now. Thats not how the real world works. We wont have anyone working to fix the problems facing millions of Canadians in poverty if our people in charge cant even admit that we have poor people living in this country that are being crushed under the merciless boot of capitalism. Lol you're just noticing this now? Not before and during the election?
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Jun 11, 2016 23:02
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blah_blah posted:Congratulations on being a useful idiot for the likes of white dudes like Bob Rennie and Gregor Robertson.
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Jun 11, 2016 23:04
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Arcsquad12 posted:long range bomb truck This is what the Superhornet isn't. It actually has terrible legs.
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Jun 12, 2016 01:15
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MA-Horus posted:This is what the Superhornet isn't. It actually has terrible legs. I thought they got those conformal fuel tanks for extended range?
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Jun 12, 2016 02:20
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Funkdreamer posted:The people you're describing never "controlled the state", but were used instrumentally by the state to marginalize others. Your analysis of race has gotten weird and essentialist imo You think it's "weird and essentialist" to say that Britain and its colonies were controlled by white people? The fact that whiteness is a social construction doesn't mean white people themselves, including white governments, didn't take it seriously. And if you think using something instrumentally and believing it yourself are somehow incompatible then you're very naive.
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Jun 12, 2016 02:22
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Arcsquad12 posted:I thought they got those conformal fuel tanks for extended range? those cost money
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Jun 12, 2016 03:03
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MA-Horus posted:those cost money Compared to an f-35 even with fuel pods a super hornet is far cheaper and more reliable
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Jun 12, 2016 03:08
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Helsing posted:You think it's "weird and essentialist" to say that Britain and its colonies were controlled by white people? Helsing posted:The fact that whiteness is a social construction doesn't mean white people themselves, including white governments, didn't take it seriously. And if you think using something instrumentally and believing it yourself are somehow incompatible then you're very naive.
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Jun 12, 2016 03:20
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Arcsquad12 posted:Haha, the cons want their f-35s so bad. Anything would be better than those fat dumpster fires on wings. In all honesty much as I like the Rafale the super hornet is our best bet so I don't know why the opposition would be mad about getting a good long range bomb truck
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Jun 12, 2016 05:41
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Albino Squirrel posted:Wait, did the government actually say we're going to sole-source the Super Hornet? Did I miss us saying that we're for sure out on the F35? Lockheed seems to think so.
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Jun 12, 2016 13:34
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Funkdreamer posted:That's not what you said. You said we need to avoid antagonizing angry whites because they "control the state" and I pointed out that the whites who are angry are not the whites who are in the power bloc, and now you're trying to reframe the argument over a breathtakingly obvious point about Britain and its colonies. Here are the comments you're reacting to: Helsing posted:Aggravating ethnic tensions within a society tends to produce really horrific results. Helsing posted:State collapse and genocide are pretty extreme examples. I'd be more concerned about the growth of racist organisations and gangs. Just look at what has happened in Greece or some of the other European countries that have essentially been told they are going to have to accept permanent and severer drops in their living standards. I'd also be concerned that Canada's vaunted progressive attitudes toward gender and religion are not immutable. Some of our parties have even flirted with this kind of stuff in Quebec and we should be glad that it didn't go over very well. I brought up the historical control of the government by white people because in most cases the narrative about how the majority or plurality group has to "take back" the government plays a big role in motivating racist or ethnic chauvinist organizations, not because I was saying that sardonic remarks about white people were going to prompt some kind of racist government backlash. I would also think it was really obvious from my post and the examples that I've been listing since this conversation started that I'm more concerned about how ethnic nationalism interacts with severe economic or political instability. As I said above, this is already happening in some places. And what you tend to see is that the ethnic group that views the state as belonging to it -- Germans in Germany, Greeks in Greece, Hungarians in Hungary, etc. -- starts to blame others and to concoct narratives about needing to retake control of that government, which leads to the rise of racist gangs and organizations. Anyway, when THC says this: THC posted:White men deserve to feel less valued by society, and to actually be less valued. It's not enough to just make them feel bad It already has started happening. But the main way it has manifested isn't sardonic slights, it's the disappearance of the old social contract guaranteeing the mass of the white male population relatively decent jobs with wages or salaries you can support a family and live a somewhat dignified existence on. Ideally this generous arrangement would have been extended to the excluded parts of the population (we'll set aside for a moment the question of whether this is feasible under our current economic system). Instead, we've moved in a direction of greater economic insecurity. That leaves people vulnerable to extremist ideologies, and given the state of Canadian society the ideologies I think are most likely to catch on would be right wing ones. For whites, in particular, that often means ethnic nationalism, "taking back society", etc. You don't have to feel sympathetic for these people. Many of them are pretty unsympathetic. But cheering their growing anxiety and misery suggests to me a kind of dangerous complacency. It's a way for leftists to pretend they are on the winning side of history at a time when there's very little evidence to support that belief. I think that bothers me more than the actual sentiment: the attitude I detect lurking behind it. Also I can't help but notice that usually the people who say this the loudest are themselves white men who just happen to be economic winners in the current society, so it comes off more as a form of posturing than anything else. I suppose you can reply that any gains for subaltern groups will generate some kind of resentful backlash, and sure, that's true, and often those changes are worth making anyway. But as I said above, heightening ethnic tension has historically produced terrible results. The white panic of the 60s and 70s is essentially what gave birth to neo.liberalism. The white panic of the 30s gave us fascism. I'm not personally in a huge rush to discover what other monsters it can birth.
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Jun 12, 2016 17:33
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And is there anything being done to counter any rise of fascism? Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't even seem like liberal legislation like protecting ethnic minorities from hate crimes, community stewardship, integration programs, etc are helping, or even exist. But would it really matter if there was a strong incentive to introduce policy to better integrate refugees and immigrants. In fact, any programs that help refugees or immigrants have the opposite effect by being a source of resentment. Quite often the complaints I hear among white working class folk are generally economic issues. And you'll hear things like "hear I am struggling, meanwhile the government gave that Korean a grant to open up a convenience store down the street"(something a colleague said almost verbatim just a couple weeks ago). Of course you'll have the occasional lovely comment about burkas or whatever, but any earnest discussion usually leads to economic complaints. And it's going to get worse. inequality is going to get worse. things aren't going to get better middle east. And climate change is going to make things a lot worse.
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Jun 12, 2016 18:38
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drat man I'm not saying throw them all on the unemployment rolls I'm just saying maybe the sexual appetites of Caucasian men should no longer be exclusively celebrated by our culture to the almost total exclusion of all else. Maybe it's a good thing that our sexuality is no longer perceived as having such grossly outsized value or validity compared to everyone else's (it still is way out of whack though)
Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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Jun 12, 2016 18:43
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THC posted:drat man I'm not saying throw them all on the unemployment rolls I'm just saying maybe the sexual appetites of Caucasian men should no longer be exclusively celebrated by our culture to the almost total exclusion of all else. Maybe it's a good thing that our sexuality is no longer perceived as having such grossly outsized value or validity compared to everyone else's (it still is way out of whack though)  Thanks for clarifying.
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Jun 12, 2016 19:07
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THC posted:drat man I'm not saying throw them all on the unemployment rolls I'm just saying maybe the sexual appetites of Caucasian men should no longer be exclusively celebrated by our culture to the almost total exclusion of all else. Maybe it's a good thing that our sexuality is no longer perceived as having such grossly outsized value or validity compared to everyone else's (it still is way out of whack though) So, your complaint is about sex, and not money and power?
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Jun 13, 2016 00:39
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Leofish posted:So, your complaint is about sex, and not money and power? I think someone forgot to take their antipsychotics
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Jun 13, 2016 01:46
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The specific comment I'm referring to is:quote:The last 40 or so years have... devalued white male heterosexuality This is a good thing, for everyone, and it should continue, unironically. If this makes you flip out and want to shoot up a nightclub that's because you're a piece of poo poo and you should avail yourself of assisted dying services (it's legal now!) Obviously I do not think that we should have this increasingly unequal distribution of wealth, but I have absolutely no patience or sympathy for those who resent women or queers or people of colour for the meagre social and economic gains they have enjoyed in recent times. And if we want practical solutions to the wealth disparity, I'm sorry to say they're going to be statistically focused more on people who aren't white straight men, just by virtue of the fact that other groups are still much worse off. I don't think some people are going to stop hating women and Indians just because they're receiving basic universal income. The culture of patriarchy, heteronormativity and white supremacy has to change. Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 02:00
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THC posted:This is a good thing, for everyone, and it should continue, unironically. If this makes you flip out and want to shoot up a nightclub that's because you're a piece of poo poo and you should avail yourself of assisted dying services (it's legal now!) Maybe society just doesn't value you personally because you say stuff like that?
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Jun 13, 2016 02:49
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Maybe he's just a very angry person and should get some therapy 
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Jun 13, 2016 02:51
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PT6A posted:Maybe he's just a very angry person and should get some therapy I thought this was therapy?
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Jun 13, 2016 02:55
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Ikantski posted:I thought this was therapy? No, this is abuse, Git.
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Jun 13, 2016 03:01
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I completely agree with THC. Devaluing white male cis hetero identities is a very good thing the world needs to do. Decentering and acknowledging our positions helps all of us, and the privileged white male is a huge obstacle in that way.
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Jun 13, 2016 03:13
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Whoa whoa whoa put the gendered lens down there Niki Ashton phd
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Jun 13, 2016 03:15
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namaste faggots posted:Whoa whoa whoa put the gendered lens down there Niki Ashton phd I have a Women's Studies degree.  (And know enough to understand what Ashton was talking about AND that she was completely misapplying it.)
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Jun 13, 2016 03:18
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Arivia posted:(And know enough to understand what Ashton was talking about AND that she was completely misapplying it.) It's great that we have a real authority here to explain how this complex situation should be properly viewed. blah_blah fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jun 13, 2016 |
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Jun 13, 2016 04:19
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BattleMaster posted:I would be perfectly okay if we cut the crap and rebuilt the Forces as a competent self-defense force instead of these delusions that we can and should have stealth planes and submarines and get involved in everyone else's war like a fat nerdy little brother shouting HEY ME TOO You all realize that the government priced out a self-defense force out in the 80's and it was too expensive then right? We just get a lovely bang for our buck as we generally shop American.
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Jun 13, 2016 05:42
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I too embrace the white cishet male's continued regression to the mean.
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Jun 13, 2016 05:44
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It's cool guys, we found a better way to fight ISIS after all. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/isis-military-gamification-national-defence-canada-1.3625142
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Jun 13, 2016 13:56
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vyelkin posted:It's cool guys, we found a better way to fight ISIS after all. no the board game is supposed to help us FIND a better way to fight ISIS. We are currently still contributing 2 broken hockey sticks and an empty Timbits box.
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Jun 13, 2016 13:58
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There's some kind of active situation that has shut down U of T's main downtown campus. One guy arrested, police and emergency workers on the scene, a lot of buildings are closed off.
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Jun 13, 2016 17:05
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