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You can make both suit and LBV work on dw, it depends on playstyle. I'd try both, find out which you prefer. I prefer LBV, one of the guys I play with prefers suits, I don't think either one of us can claim our builds are "better" than the other.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:11
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| # ? May 15, 2024 01:20 |
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Discendo Vox posted:The new E3 masks. The first one is actually an FFXII reference. I love the judge mask. And pvp payday on phones seems like it would be pretty cool, though I would have expected an xcom multi-player style of game, rather than an fps.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:16
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Can someone remind me where the value you modify in goonmod to increase the number of Gage coins per completed assignment is? e; found it! Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 18:22
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Not gonna lie, the turian/Garrus mask is pretty compelling. Nice work, Overkill. i'm not buying it, but I thought about it for a minute!
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Jun 14, 2016 18:22
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Discendo Vox posted:Day 1 of the Biker packs site is up, but contains absolutely no new information. It's pretty clear the trailer was released early in response to the leak. That or E3 throws a monkey-wrench into everything and they could be following plans but all the events just complicate things, leaks or not.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:47
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Psion posted:Not gonna lie, the turian/Garrus mask is pretty compelling. Nice work, Overkill. Yeah, that's where I am. I've realized I barely ever use any mask besides The Heat anyway, so why spend money on more things to fill my inventory?
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Jun 14, 2016 18:47
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- Dude are you ready yet? You've been in inventory for ever. - Sorry guys, just in the middle of some calibrations
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Jun 14, 2016 18:54
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There are masks that aren't Chains wearing the Tiara?
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Jun 14, 2016 18:55
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The big ridiculous FF knight helm calls to me, and yet... 
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Jun 14, 2016 18:59
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Crabtree posted:That or E3 throws a monkey-wrench into everything and they could be following plans but all the events just complicate things, leaks or not. The thing is, it's very clear day 1 of the site was supposed to be the trailer launch, and is just supposed to be making a big deal out of the trailer.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:03
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I'm a sucker for masks, which means I now have an extra Golden Grin code. First person to reply with their email or PM me gets it. edit: Just got a PM, it's taken Wintermutant fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 19:05
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Discendo Vox posted:Skunkrocker, are you aware the post you're complaining about is from January? And specific to HM2?  watho posted:Hotline Miami 2 is literally the worst thing humanity has ever conceived, including any and every genocide. Hotline Miami 2 is just a code phrase that means anti white.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:15
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Okay, I dicked around with this a little, couple of points: AA12 concealment is too bad for it to actually work, no matter what I tried (~50 visibility in the end with a silenced flechette Judge secondary). Saiga works fine (20 vis). Not having a drum magazine doesn't really matter since I still have 22 rounds in the magazine. This doesn't work as a dodge build without Rogue, and if you're not going to run Rogue, it sort of feels like you'd be better off not bothering with dodge at all and just running regular ballistic vest (HBV won't fit since its concealment is too low) with BV skills and Grinder, but I'd have to actually try it in OVK/DW to be sure.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:16
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Lemon-Lime posted:This doesn't work as a dodge build without Rogue, and if you're not going to run Rogue, it sort of feels like you'd be better off not bothering with dodge at all and just running regular ballistic vest (HBV won't fit since its concealment is too low) with BV skills and Grinder, but I'd have to actually try it in OVK/DW to be sure. That's what I've been doing. BV skills, shotgun skills, Grinder, LBV, silenced AA-12 and explosive silenced Judge. Handful of other skills, filled out the Medic tree as well to get aced Inspire. Click all cops, yell all players.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:20
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I'm not at all a fan of how all the dodge bonuses are in Rogue, and I'd much rather they made Sneaky Bastard Ace give you 1% dodge per 1 point of visibility below 35 up to 30% and take some dodge out of Rogue to compensate, so you could do dodge builds with other perk decks. 
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Jun 14, 2016 19:28
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Lemon-Lime posted:I'm not at all a fan of how all the dodge bonuses are in Rogue, and I'd much rather they made Sneaky Bastard Ace give you 1% dodge per 1 point of visibility below 35 up to 30% and take some dodge out of Rogue to compensate, so you could do dodge builds with other perk decks. Might as well delete rogue at that point, really.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:35
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Rhjamiz posted:Might as well delete rogue at that point, really. Obviously, they should add some different bonuses to Rogue by way of replacement, not just remove most of the dodge chance and call it a day.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:37
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Discendo Vox posted:The thing is, it's very clear day 1 of the site was supposed to be the trailer launch, and is just supposed to be making a big deal out of the trailer. And the several games they have cooking and promoting at E3, the general programing they're likely still mulling over or the fact that people who went to E3 could see the banners as clear as day wouldn't influence them to let a trailer slip a day early to make it a full four day hype build up? Either today or yesterday was going to be a wasted day anyway so its not a big of a deal.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:42
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Lemon-Lime posted:I'm not at all a fan of how all the dodge bonuses are in Rogue, and I'd much rather they made Sneaky Bastard Ace give you 1% dodge per 1 point of visibility below 35 up to 30% and take some dodge out of Rogue to compensate, so you could do dodge builds with other perk decks. It would be nice! But that would allow Grinder dodging to become "the meta" again, as the kids call it, and Overkill is trying to encourage perk deck diversity. Rogue's dodge still isn't high enough to make it worth using, though, especially when it has no max health increase (Grinder/Ex-Prez both have a 40% health boost), no health regen (Hostage Taker is too expensive when I really don't care about jokered cops), and the swap speed bonus is available through Overkill aced. Ex-Prez has a flat 10% dodge bonus, so there's that! It's definitely not Discount Grinder anymore. Bonus: if wearing a suit and using Ex-President, use HE to break your armor in a safe location to get a bunch of health back!
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Jun 14, 2016 19:47
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Crabtree posted:And the several games they have cooking and promoting at E3, the general programing they're likely still mulling over or the fact that people who went to E3 could see the banners as clear as day wouldn't influence them to let a trailer slip a day early to make it a full four day hype build up? Either today or yesterday was going to be a wasted day anyway so its not a big of a deal. The hall where the banner leak came from wasn't open to the public on the day of the leak.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:47
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ClonedPickle posted:It would be nice! But that would allow Grinder dodging to become "the meta" again, as the kids call it, and Overkill is trying to encourage perk deck diversity. Rogue's dodge still isn't high enough to make it worth using, though, especially when it has no max health increase (Grinder/Ex-Prez both have a 40% health boost), no health regen (Hostage Taker is too expensive when I really don't care about jokered cops), and the swap speed bonus is available through Overkill aced. That's the thing - Ex-Prez has 10 but that's secondary to the health stuff. Meanwhile, Crook has 10 + 25 that applies only to ballistic vests (so in effect, 30, since you'll probably be using LBV) plus some ballistic vest armour bonuses that are designed to make you wear HBV (which makes the dodge bonuses useless), and Rogue has a full 40% and basically nothing else. A much better solution would be to change Sneaky Bastard Ace the way I described, and then change those perk decks to work with that in various ways. For example:
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 20:04
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Lemon-Lime posted:Okay, I dicked around with this a little, couple of points: I also tried out this build and I managed to get it to 27 conceal with the Steakout, LEO Pistol, Buzzer, and LBV. It also helped that I slapped on a concealment mod on both the Steakout and LEO but even without the concealment mods I could get under 30 by having my secondary be something like a Chimano with the smallest suppressor. Not sure if I was really dodging anything to be honest. I'd run in and take a load of damage but I never died with Grinder procing on a ton of flying enemies.
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Jun 14, 2016 20:14
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Lemon-Lime posted:As it is, it's basically an orphaned mechanic. You don't address grinder, pickle's main point, and the idea that dodge is an orphaned mechanic is somewhat intriguingly untrue considering the number of dodge builds I have built up right now.
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Jun 14, 2016 20:20
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With the concealment skills a max'd bernetti (or kurz) with the +3 conceal boost and a max conceal ishma (suppressor and skeletal stock) gets you to 3 detection rating in a suit. The bernetti is pretty good for killing snipers. Ishma for everything else.
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Jun 14, 2016 20:25
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Psion posted:You don't address grinder, pickle's main point, and the idea that dodge is an orphaned mechanic is somewhat intriguingly untrue considering the number of dodge builds I have built up right now. To be clear: the idea is to change Crook and Rogue until they're viable alternatives to Grinder for dodge builds. The numbers I gave should obviously be tweaked until that's the case (in fact, I would be interested in people posting how they think those decks should be changed to compete with Grinder in this hypothetical scenario). It's an orphaned mechanic because if you want to stack dodge the only thing you can do is get Sneaky Bastard and Rogue, nothing else really interacts with it the way those two do. More perk decks that are viable for a "real" dodge build (rather than just going in with 15% dodge and Grinder) means more stuff interacting with dodge as a mechanic, which is a good thing. TopHatGenius posted:I also tried out this build and I managed to get it to 27 conceal with the Steakout, LEO Pistol, Buzzer, and LBV. It also helped that I slapped on a concealment mod on both the Steakout and LEO but even without the concealment mods I could get under 30 by having my secondary be something like a Chimano with the smallest suppressor. Yeah, I was trying to stick with silenced shotguns, since the build doesn't have pistol skills. I guess it doesn't matter that much for a sidearm you only ever use to shoot snipers since you have silencer skills anyway. Drewjitsu posted:With the concealment skills a max'd bernetti (or kurz) with the +3 conceal boost and a max conceal ishma (suppressor and skeletal stock) gets you to 3 detection rating in a suit. I get 13? Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Bernetti's at 33 and Ishma is at 16, with 32 melee and a suit. e; I'd forgotten to ace the silencer concealment skill, whoops. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 20:27
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Wait wait, we need to buff Crook, am I reading that right? Also I think stating that Overkill aced negates Rogue's swap bonus is a bit silly when you're going up an entire tree to ace its tier 4. It's a very good tree but it doesn't mean I'm taking it all the time, though I do agree Rogue needs a little something more since you're a hosed when RNG does not go your way.
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Jun 14, 2016 20:38
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I have hyped myself too much to the idea that we will finally get a 1887 in this game and will likely disappoint myself this Thursday if it lacks this reload..
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Jun 14, 2016 20:40
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Lemon-Lime posted:It's an orphaned mechanic because if you want to stack dodge the only thing you can do is get Sneaky Bastard and Rogue, nothing else really interacts with it the way those two do. More perk decks that are viable for a "real" dodge build (rather than just going in with 15% dodge and Grinder) means more stuff interacting with dodge as a mechanic, which is a good thing. I get what you're trying to say, but I don't think you quite grasp the situation. The reason behind Grinder's popularity is that it provides an effectively infinite amount of health, recovered at a rate that can offset smaller amounts of incoming damage. The durability is immense, particularly if you play carefully. It's near impossible to achieve that level of durability with dodge builds, since dodge builds are either untouchable (bad) or reliant on FAKs (resource-limited, so less desirable than Grinder). Presently, the real utility of dodge is increasing room for error in other builds. 15-25% dodge is nothing to sneeze at. I don't think you'll make a dodge-centric build definitively better than Grinder/Ex-Prez without making dodge really, really strong. Dodge builds are DW-viable, no doubt, but they're not "optimal."
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Jun 14, 2016 20:50
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TopHatGenius posted:Not sure if I was really dodging anything to be honest. I'd run in and take a load of damage but I never died with Grinder procing on a ton of flying enemies. Between the fact that you'll always be stun locking enemies (sans cloakers) and Grinder never going off proc, you're nearly invulnerable when firing. Also, I forgot that I'm using a mod that lets me use any boost on any weapon. I was able to add plus 3 concealment on both guns to dip below 25. Saiga still works fine though.
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Jun 14, 2016 20:50
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Basically, pure dodge builds are fun and it's sad that right now, functioning dodge builds don't use either of the dodge perk decks, and don't actually bother to take dodge above 15%. Ideally there should be changes to the game that fix this and make stacking dodge viable (by compensating for the RNG in some way).
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jun 14, 2016 |
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Jun 14, 2016 20:56
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Man I feel like it's really easy for people in this game to treat suboptimal builds like they're straight-up unviable
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Jun 14, 2016 21:00
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Lemon-Lime posted:Basically, pure dodge builds are fun and it's sad that right now, functioning dodge builds don't use either of the dodge perk decks, and don't actually bother to take dodge above ~20%. Ideally there should be changes to the game that fix this and make stacking dodge viable (by compensating for the RNG in some way). It is viable. It's just less optimal than using a perk deck that allows you to regenerate an infinite amount of health.
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Jun 14, 2016 21:00
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Dr Cheeto posted:Man I feel like it's really easy for people in this game to treat suboptimal builds like they're straight-up unviable Basically. Literally everything is viable on Overkill and below, and most things are viable on DW. Do what you like.
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Jun 14, 2016 21:01
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Give Rogue a weaker version of Muscle's passive health regen. There, you have a buffer against getting hosed by percentages without being an untouchable immortal god.
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Jun 14, 2016 21:06
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Nah, we don't need more decks with regen. Regen was already Overkill's bandaid for making Muscle "good".
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Jun 14, 2016 21:07
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Dr Cheeto posted:Man I feel like it's really easy for people in this game to treat suboptimal builds like they're straight-up unviable Wait till I get home and post my silent shotgun grinder build. Pretty sure it's sub optimal and pretty sure I've blitzed DW with it like nobody's business.
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Jun 14, 2016 21:07
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RandallODim posted:Give Rogue a weaker version of Muscle's passive health regen. There, you have a buffer against getting hosed by percentages without being an untouchable immortal god. This is basically the same as picking up Hostage Taker and running that with a dodge build. Turns out it's still not as effective as Grinder.
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Jun 14, 2016 21:08
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So apparently I have been investing in the wrong perk deck, Grinder sounds like something I would enjoy.
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Jun 14, 2016 21:25
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Bort Bortles posted:So apparently I have been investing in the wrong perk deck, Grinder sounds like something I would enjoy. You can't be as aggressive as you used to, but once you get the right rhythm it's really fun and I prefer it over dodge decks.
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Jun 14, 2016 21:55
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UnknownMercenary posted:Wait wait, we need to buff Crook, am I reading that right? Also I think stating that Overkill aced negates Rogue's swap bonus is a bit silly when you're going up an entire tree to ace its tier 4. It's a very good tree but it doesn't mean I'm taking it all the time, though I do agree Rogue needs a little something more since you're a hosed when RNG does not go your way. It was kinda silly to say, but I figured we were mostly talking about shotgun dodge builds at the time. I don't think Overkill's really willing to increase dodge bonuses, even if it only applied to SB aced - they've stated that they're not a fan of players sprinting directly through assault waves unharmed, so I think decks would have to be buffed in other ways. I like your idea, Lemon-Lime, of Rogue getting a concealment bonus, so it's less durable than other dodge decks but can wield potentially deadlier weapons. It would probably need to be +5 at minimum to make enough of a difference, and likely applied to the suit. Crook... I haven't actually used Crook recently, but judging by Merc's post, it might actually be in a good spot right now? Does Crook need a buff? And if so, it probably shouldn't be a concealment bonus (so Rogue can be a special snowflake), or any sort of further armor/armor regen buff, so I dunno what it would be. Grinder and Ex-Prez are basically fine right now (I would happily take 5-10% more dodge in either but doubt it will happen), and that's pretty much it for dodge decks unless you want Burglar to be a serious choice. Now, to figure out how to make Crew Chief/Hitman/etc worthwhile...
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Jun 14, 2016 22:07
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