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The only way I would be interested in an Espionage DLC is if the code talkers were involved. The US gets impenetrable decryption, Japan gets events about how the gaijin are somehow passing along messages in this weird tonal gibberish.
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Jun 17, 2016 23:17
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Espionage DLC features: everyone can see Germany's and Japan's troops forever
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Jun 17, 2016 23:20
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cool and good posted:That's the opposite of casual friend. You are not casual Its not? Oh nooo what have I become. But fo realz people dont find the grand campaigns in eu4 or ck2 chillaxed?
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Jun 17, 2016 23:40
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Funky Valentine posted:The only way I would be interested in an Espionage DLC is if the code talkers were involved. The US gets impenetrable decryption, Japan gets events about how the gaijin are somehow passing along messages in this weird tonal gibberish. Speaking a language the listener doesn't know is a long way from impenetrable encryption. Gort fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 09:04
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Gort posted:Speaking a language the listener doesn't know is a long way from impenetrable encryption. it was indeed impenetrable though
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Jun 18, 2016 09:14
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corn in the bible posted:it was indeed impenetrable though Assuming the Japanese didn't actually research any of the decryption techs, OK
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Jun 18, 2016 09:24
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 uh
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Jun 18, 2016 11:28
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It's the CK version of the HoI4 text adventure game.
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Jun 18, 2016 11:52
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inkwell posted:incomplete holy american empire flag im working on Cool idea but a lot of those state flags don't make any dang sense. Like the California Lone Star (white flag with large red star) would be a lot better instead of the Bear Flag. Also you should totally jack the eagle from the federal seal instead of a medieval style one
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Jun 18, 2016 12:21
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Larry Parrish posted:Cool idea but a lot of those state flags don't make any dang sense. Like the California Lone Star (white flag with large red star) would be a lot better instead of the Bear Flag. Also you should totally jack the eagle from the federal seal instead of a medieval style one Are you seriously suggesting NOT using a flag with a bear on it, a shameful post.
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Jun 18, 2016 12:51
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Gort posted:Assuming the Japanese didn't actually research any of the decryption techs, OK
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Jun 18, 2016 12:52
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Ofaloaf posted:It actually wasn't deciphered during the war, though. It still seems like a pretty dumb idea. I can't imagine it would be that hard to figure out the language if you have enough messages, since you already have a basic idea of what these massages contain and how human grammar works.
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Jun 18, 2016 13:35
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waitwhatno posted:It still seems like a pretty dumb idea. I can't imagine it would be that hard to figure out the language if you have enough messages, since you already have a basic idea of what these massages contain and how human grammar works. They also mixed in some other ciphers to further obfuscate the message. The Japanese actually had a Navajo native try to interpret the messages and he was completely unable to. It was far from uncrackable, but apparently good enough and really easy to train for and pull off.
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Jun 18, 2016 14:04
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It was ciphered too. The native American code talkers were an example of using two imperfect methods to increase security. On their own, foreign language and a simple cipher will eventually be cracked from over exposure, but with the marine's system, the Japanese were tripping over fairly unique sounds without a native speaker, which meant they didn't get a lot of quality effort on cracking the simple cipher.
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Jun 18, 2016 14:08
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waitwhatno posted:It still seems like a pretty dumb idea. I can't imagine it would be that hard to figure out the language if you have enough messages, since you already have a basic idea of what these massages contain and how human grammar works. It was a very good idea actually. Navajo has a lot of aural subtleties that are very hard for non natives to hear or understand. Plus they did encrypt the messages before reading them to each other so even if the Japanese did find native speakers (there weren't many) it would then require some actual code-breaking on top of that. They had a terminology codebook, you know, so it wasn't literally just people speaking Navajo to eachother. Sure it pales in comparison to modern encrypted audio but it could be done with zero equipment very quickly and was also not susceptible to mechanical codebreaking. Very good code!
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Jun 18, 2016 15:48
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waitwhatno posted:It still seems like a pretty dumb idea. I can't imagine it would be that hard to figure out the language if you have enough messages, since you already have a basic idea of what these massages contain and how human grammar works. I don't think we really understood grammar at a deep level back then
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Jun 18, 2016 16:13
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While they're at it, they should also add in how German codes were incredibly easy to decipher, since officers had to praise Hitler all the time. An element that always occurs in every message makes for a very easily broken cipher.
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Jun 18, 2016 16:24
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Zas posted:I don't think we really understood grammar at a deep level back then Translating a language from scratch is uh a lot harder than you seem to think it is
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Jun 18, 2016 16:47
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VerdantSquire posted:While they're at it, they should also add in how German codes were incredibly easy to decipher, since officers had to praise Hitler all the time. An element that always occurs in every message makes for a very easily broken cipher. No they were incredibly easy to decipher because Germans thought their Enigma was unbreakable and didn't bother changing ciphers. Once you cracked the thing all messages were an open book.
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Jun 18, 2016 17:27
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Lotta ppl itt with no idea how cryptography during ww2 worked
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Jun 18, 2016 17:30
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Riso posted:No they were incredibly easy to decipher because Germans thought their Enigma was unbreakable and didn't bother changing ciphers. Once you cracked the thing all messages were an open book. They changed ciphers regularly.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:19
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Seems to me espionage could be relatively simply included by having civilian factories (or whatever) produce espionage points, with which you can do stuff like building domestic spy defense, foreign networks, sabotage, recon, assassination attempts, and even misdirection/ fake divisions.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:30
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OperaMouse posted:Seems to me espionage could be relatively simply included by having civilian factories (or whatever) produce espionage points, with which you can do stuff like building domestic spy defense, foreign networks, sabotage, recon, assassination attempts, and even misdirection/ fake divisions. Please do not add Another lovely Espionage System to your good game
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Jun 18, 2016 18:35
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If espionage absolutely must be put into a game, it should probably just be a Zachtronics style game where you learn how code making and breaking works.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:38
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corn in the bible posted:Please do not add Another lovely Espionage System to your good game This. This. This. Maybe there's space to tweak the mechanics of the current espionage system, but the game is not asking for a new system.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:42
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As someone who is starting to burn out on stellaris and doesn't have much paradox experience I'm wondering if I should try ck2 or eu4 next? I played some ck1 back in the day, but that was more figuring out why it constantly crashed.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:17
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zedprime posted:If espionage absolutely must be put into a game, it should probably just be a Zachtronics style game where you learn how code making and breaking works. 'just' Demon_Corsair posted:As someone who is starting to burn out on stellaris and doesn't have much paradox experience I'm wondering if I should try ck2 or eu4 next? CK2 is more exotic, EU4 is more 'conventional', as strategy games go. i personally prefer eu4, but they both have demos available that should give you a good idea of whether you like the style of game or not.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:25
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Focus trees are obvious, but those aren't major expansions, are they? Selling a pack of focus trees for various Asian countries is a bit different from something like Common Sense. I just wonder how many of those bigger expansion packs they can come up with. It seems really strange to buy something that not figuratively, but literally, would be a few dozen lines of text. Well, I guess they would have to make new focus graphics, that's a bit more labor-intensive
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Jun 18, 2016 19:28
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Make espionage just on the map where you "plan" to "gently caress up the other guys poo poo" when you execute it.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:35
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PleasingFungus posted:'just'
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Jun 18, 2016 19:37
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corn in the bible posted:Please do not add Another lovely Espionage System to your good game Don't try playing as an Eastern European country in Darkest Hour, you will constantly have to deal with your neighbors sabotaging you every which way. Why are you disrupting my production you loving idiots, we have 200 relations and we're about to join the same alliance I really hate espionage in the HOI series.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:44
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Phlegmish posted:Don't try playing as an Eastern European country in Darkest Hour, you will constantly have to deal with your neighbors sabotaging you every which way. Why are you disrupting my production you loving idiots, we have 200 relations and we're about to join the same alliance the soviets kept disrupting my production as poland even though i had already joined the comintern 
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Jun 18, 2016 19:55
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Not having played HoI4 yet, I don't know how many places espionage could be applied to, but the obvious thing to me would be to attempt to reveal the target's attack plans, with counterespionage affecting the accuracy of the information. So with D-Day as an example, you'd have Germans know that units in Great Britain are planning a major landing operation across the British channel, but thanks to British counter-espionage, the plan revealed to the Germans is a landing on Calais whereas the actual plan is a landing on Normandy.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:48
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There's definitely some room for adjusting encryption and decryption. Building buildings that take up factory slots and increase either encryption or decryption would be a fairly elegant solution. Modify it based on the tech and the size of the respective armies or territory as well as distance (larger armies/territory = more transmissions, closer = more intercepted transmissions). It also gives a meaningful choice of investing resources beyond just six techs to break or obscure orders and troop positions.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:57
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corn in the bible posted:the soviets kept disrupting my production as poland even though i had already joined the comintern It seems like such a no-brainer to add a modifier to have countries stop sabotaging you as soon as you have >x relations with them. It's like they went out of their way to make the espionage system as irritating and nonsensical as possible.
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Jun 18, 2016 22:52
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:It seems really strange to buy something that not figuratively, but literally, would be a few dozen lines of text. I'm not sure how the filesize of the DLC or whatever matters at all. It's about the kind of content it brings to the game and the impact it has. There's a lot more to designing a good focus tree than just writing a few dozen lines of text and calling it a day. And that's the kind of content they'd probably sell on the cheap, like $5 or less for multiple nation's worth. Seems fair to me.
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Jun 19, 2016 00:15
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wrong thread
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Jun 19, 2016 00:23
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corn in the bible posted:Translating a language from scratch is uh a lot harder than you seem to think it is Phlegmish posted:Don't try playing as an Eastern European country in Darkest Hour, you will constantly have to deal with your neighbors sabotaging you every which way. Why are you disrupting my production you loving idiots, we have 200 relations and we're about to join the same alliance
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Jun 19, 2016 13:05
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Given the focus of HoI4 is that you are the Supreme Leader I don't think espionage needs more features than it already has. You are not the guy who decides who organizes your nations intelligence network but rather give them some resources (research time) and reap the results.
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Jun 19, 2016 13:14
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Zombiepop posted:Yeah you are right, but scenarios are so boring, I would rather see HoI become more grand strategy, Seeing the world facture and rebuild from ww1 to whenever. Just make sure new nations pop up after each major conflict to keep the map fresh. they're not boring at all though, arsenal of democracy created scenarios for basically all theaters of operation and even aditional ones like arab-israel wars, brazil vs argentina and the korean war and they were great. WW1 DLC would be terrible simply because what happens after the war is over isn't really planned out properly in HoI.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:15
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