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PBS Newshour posted:TFA was a prety good movie but not as good as Creed which should have won best picture Amen.
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Jun 18, 2016 16:51
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euphronius posted:In the movie she witnesses kylo killing Han Solo. That's really rudimentary plot summary. I'm talking characterization. (Leia is abducted and tortured, then witnesses Vader killing Obiwan, yet she doesn't get into a big laser-swordfight with Vader at the end of any film. Neither does Han.) So for example: the scene where Rey gets enraged and kills two Stormtroopers as revenge for Maz's statue getting knocked over - drawing attention to BB8 and endangering everyone. Characterization is not merely the fact that she does this, but in what exactly her attachment is to Maz - why she kills for Maz. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 17:43
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That's pretty simple; she desires a family, Kylo abandoned his family, Rey is 'adopted' by Han who acts as her father figure, Ren kills him. Rey is pissed that she just lost her dad. She kills the Stormtroopers because she knows Han is/was in the cantina, and though she was spooked by jedi visions Maz is still the second person to willingly care about her (noting that Finn just left the moment he had a chance). She kills to protect her family. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 17:46
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Yaws posted:Couple all that with the slipshod CG backgrounds and the needless insertion of characters from the OT and it's almost like the prequels are fan films. This is one complaint about the prequels I never really understood. While there is definitely some rough CGI, particularly when it's in the forefront (and particularly in TPM), the backgrounds are uniformly excellent. I kind of hesitate to bring this up because I don't know how much there is to discuss on this issue, but while I understand most the complaints people have with the movies, I just don't see what's objectionable about the backgrounds.
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Jun 18, 2016 17:49
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Schwarzwald posted:This is one complaint about the prequels I never really understood. While there is definitely some rough CGI, particularly when it's in the forefront (and particularly in TPM), the backgrounds are uniformly excellent. I think it just has to do with how shiny everything is; one might see it as working within their limitations, others might see it as the result of poor CGI. The integration of actors into CG environments remains pretty poor throughout the films; they never get the angles or lighting close enough to the environs, so anything but flat angles just look weird and floaty in a 90's FMV game way. Look up the Dune fmv game (a remaster of Dune 2?) and compare the scenes to high-angle scenes where jedi walk through their temple.
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Jun 18, 2016 17:55
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Neurolimal posted:That's pretty simple; she desires a family, Kylo abandoned his family, Rey is 'adopted' by Han who acts as her father figure, Ren kills him. Rey is pissed that she just lost her dad. Again, no. Rey does not kill the to protect anyone. The first stormtrooper killed is standing in the forest with his back to her, taking a piss or something. Rey's reasons for killing this person - attempting to shoot him in the back, even - cannot be easily dismissed with words like 'family'. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 18:01
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Rey has sever parental abandonment issues, which leads her to very quickly become emotionally attached to Han, the first older man who shows any kind of paternal affection for her. Later, after she was captured by the enemy, she meets up with Han again. She waited her whole life for her family to come and rescue her, and now it's finally happened. Only, Han hasn't actually come to rescue her, that was just the pretext. He actually came to rescue his son, his legitimate family. And afterwards, Han abandons Rey, just like her old parents did. She doesn't hate Ren because Ren kidnapped her and killed her father. She hates Ren because her father loved him more than he loved her.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Again, no. She equates all the faceless masses of stormtroopers as Part of the Enemy. It doesn't matter to her that those two stormtroopers are on "patrol the surrounding area for strays" duty, she just has seen what The Enemy has done to Maz's bar and kills some soldiers of The Enemy.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:20
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jivjov posted:She equates all the faceless masses of stormtroopers as Part of the Enemy. It doesn't matter to her that those two stormtroopers are on "patrol the surrounding area for strays" duty, she just has seen what The Enemy has done to Maz's bar and kills some soldiers of The Enemy. You make a convincing case that Rey is a monster.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:29
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finn reveals he was a stormtrooper and abandons rey who has abandonment issues, then shortly after rey straight up murders some stormtroopers. hmm
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Jun 18, 2016 18:53
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Its really weird that Rey would shoot at literal stormtroopers who have previously tried to blow her up and are now systematically leveling the building she last saw her only friends in (and that she knows is trying to kidnap the one friend who came after her)
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Jun 18, 2016 18:54
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Jerkface posted:Its really weird that Rey would shoot at literal stormtroopers who have previously tried to blow her up and are now systematically leveling the building she last saw her only friends in (and that she knows is trying to kidnap the one friend who came after her) jivjov posted:She equates all the faceless masses of stormtroopers as Part of the Enemy. It doesn't matter to her that those two stormtroopers are on "patrol the surrounding area for strays" duty, she just has seen what The Enemy has done to Maz's bar and kills some soldiers of The Enemy. oddium posted:finn reveals he was a stormtrooper and abandons rey who has abandonment issues, then shortly after rey straight up murders some stormtroopers. hmm
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Jun 18, 2016 19:08
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jivjov posted:She equates all the faceless masses of stormtroopers as Part of the Enemy. It doesn't matter to her that those two stormtroopers are on "patrol the surrounding area for strays" duty, she just has seen what The Enemy has done to Maz's bar and kills some soldiers of The Enemy. This is much closer to the truth, but misses some crucial nuances. It's important to look to the film:  This is the sequence leading up to the killing, broken down into the three major shots. I've omitted things like Rey's multiple reaction shots, and a brief insert shot of Rey unholstering her gun, to focus on the bare essentials. 1) Rey runs up the hill. 2) We have an over-the-shoulder view of the explosions. 3) Rey spies the Stromtrooper and shoots him. Now hopefully y'all can see the visual associations made here. Shots 1 and 3 have the same imagery of the tiny, white-clad figure isolated in the trees, while 2 and 3 use pretty much the exact same 'over the shoulder' camera angle. So, put simply, what we have is Rey getting overwhelmed by all the destruction, and she concentrates all those feelings of fear and powerlessness onto a single point: this tiny figure who looks like her. She then crushes this figure. (Note the visual association between the Stormtrooper's armor and the nearly black-and-white color scheme in shot 2. A blank 'hole' opens up in the greenery of the forest, and then Rey closes it.) It's important to understand, though, that we in the audience are not overwhelmed by the destruction. What we get is not a direct, first-person POV shot but a detached, almost neutral understanding of 'what Rey is looking at'. Rather than clarifying things, however, this neutrality actually obfuscates what's going on - allowing folks to tune out the violence and then insert whatever motivation they want (e.g. "protecting family", "stormtroopers are evil", and so on). That's why likeability ultimately has nothing to do with characterization. But in a very basic sense: that figure dicking around aimlessly in the forest - that figure was Rey, just moments earlier. This is not the first time such associations have been made in the film: 
SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 20:04
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Rey also started beating the poo poo out of Finn when she thought he was just a thief. She's very enthusiastic about punishing evil, which she identifies hastily and imaginatively. Her determination that Kylo Ren is hunting her based on the fact that he captured her is much like her determination that Finn is hostile to BB-8 just because he's staring at them. We know she romanticizes the widely-misunderstood-in-universe Star War, with her old rebel pilot's helmet and her easy acceptance of the Force. There's anger in her, directed towards anyone she can associate with injustice in the universe. She absolutely believes in a stark division between dark and light, and hates the dark. That division of everything into innocents and villains is part of her naivete and central to her character. A certain other hosed-up desert urchin whose livelihood was dependent on an unpleasant alien was also motivated to associate with Jedi because of a strong resentment toward systematic unfairness. So, y'know. It rhymes.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:26
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Guy A. Person posted:Idgi You get it
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Jun 18, 2016 21:40
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It's worth mentioning that both times Rey is about to murder someone in cold blood, Fate or The Force or Dead Jedis or something intervenes. She, in an uncharacteristic moment of incompetence, forgets to turn off the safety on her gun before she shoots the stormtrooper, which gives him a chance to notice her and start shooting, and the planet rips itself apart to stop her from killing Ren when he's left helpless.
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Jun 18, 2016 21:41
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PBS Newshour posted:You get it ...from my hot cousins 
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Jun 18, 2016 21:57
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Guy A. Person posted:...from my hot cousins lmao
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Jun 18, 2016 22:03
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Quite frankly, this is because you are not paying attention. Padme and Anakin, for example, are supremely hosed-up characters in a way that is very clearly laid out. Anakin being way too young for the relationship is set up well in advance, in Phantom Menace. And all the actors do an extremely good job of portraying fascinatingly dysfunctional characters.
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Jun 19, 2016 01:06
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Yaws posted:This argument get's brought up here a lot and it falls flat. I'm sure we've all been around dysfunctional people and they certainly don't have the awkward cadence similar to bad actors. Christopher Lee also gave a similarly poor performance and Dooku is supposed to be a haughty urbane elitist. Oops, you've slipped up. Instead of writing "it's bad" over and over, you have accidentally made a proveable claim: that the late Christopher Lee had 'awkward cadence'. Can you post a few examples of what you are talking about, in order to prove that you are not hallucinating? Youtube has clips in plentiful supply. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 02:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Oops, you've slipped up.  quote:Can you post a few examples of what you are talking about, in order to prove that you are not hallucinating? Youtube has clips in plentiful supply. "I've become more powerful than any Jedi" Do I need a powerpoint to demonstrate to you how ~bad~ Lee sounds delivering that line? I don't know what you want from me here. It's like you don't know how human beings speak to one another. You make me sick SMG.
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Jun 19, 2016 02:49
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Yaws posted:I don't know what you want from me here. To prove that the 'bad acting cadence' is an actual thing, and not something that you've hallucinated. Here's the specific line of dialogue. Can you communicate what you believe to be wrong with the delivery of the line?
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Jun 19, 2016 04:00
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Its spoken with the inflection of a piece of wood, followed by a weak hand raise lightning thing, and really the whole scene is just limply acted & shot. Looks fake and bad. Is bad. Edit: I thought, in general, that hanger or whereever they fight at the end of AOTC was really unimaginative as far as your final dueling space goes. The coolest thing they did was Anakin's sword flourish cutting the steam tubing on the ground. I liked that. Everything else about it was bland. It didn't have the craziness of mustafar, the spectacle of TPM's energy whatsits, the sick interior of CC, or the awesome snow forest from TFA. Its objectively the worst final lightsaber space of all the star wars films. In general I think they crafted spaces where the actors, in the fighting, could really use the scenery and we got to see the lightsabers cut through stuff, and they really move around a space with a lot of different things in the way. The AOTC final duel takes place in what looks like a CGI box, so you have a kind of weird glow behind the actors in some of the shots that makes me think 'oh greenscreen!', and they don't really use the space all that well. Part of this may just be that they had a 70 year old guy trying to lightsaber fight, which you know, was probably a mistake after having ray park put on a show in TPM. Jerkface fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 05:07
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Jerkface posted:Its spoken with the inflection of a piece of wood, followed by a weak hand raise lightning thing, and really the whole scene is just limply acted & shot. Looks fake and bad. Is bad. See, I've asked a basic question about 'bad acting cadence' but your reply only briefly alludes to hand gestures and cinematography, before a rambling paragraph about laser combat. None of those things have anything to do with cadence. This is why I think you may be hallucinating. There is nothing wrong with the cadence of Christopher Lee's voice.
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Jun 19, 2016 05:58
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Jerkface posted:Its spoken with the inflection of a piece of wood, followed by a weak hand raise lightning thing Have you possibly considered that this was a creative decision to show that Dooku perhaps isn't buying what he is selling, rather than a weak example of a supposed vast conspiracy of runaway incompetence in filmmaking?
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Jun 19, 2016 06:21
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Lee gave the worse performance of his life in the prequels but it's not his fault. By his own admission, Lucas can't direct actors. When you have a director with limited talent, banal lines, and a poorly defined character, what do you expect? Who could make lines like that sound convincing?
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Jun 19, 2016 06:30
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So we've gone back to "it's bad."
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Jun 19, 2016 06:38
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I can't wait for when they get to find double-space Emperor in his golden planet in Episode VIII through the power of lightguitars (the evolution of lightsabers). But their fighting awoke the ancient force ghost at the center of the universe, setting up Episode IX where they travel faster than lightspeed using a secret ship built by the double resistance.
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Jun 19, 2016 07:05
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"I've become more powerful than any Jedi" isn't a great line because it doesn't mean anything and Lee doesn't really do anything with it. It's not terrible though.
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Jun 19, 2016 07:18
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porfiria posted:"I've become more powerful than any Jedi" isn't a great line because it doesn't mean anything and Lee doesn't really do anything with it. It's not terrible though. The point of the line is the ambiguity: Dooku still considers himself a Jedi, and Lee is delivering the boast with a great deal of uncertainty after his old friend just called him a dark-sider. This is pointedly not the gleeful, cackling evil of Palpatine. Lee gives the character a hint of resignation; Dooku thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, but nobody understands him.
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Jun 19, 2016 07:40
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Worth noting that at the time aotc was released and during its production Lee was at the forefront of the public consciousness not for his work as Dracula, but as Saruman in the LotR movies that had started their release cycle a couple years beforehand, a character who has a lot more commonality with Dooku than most of Lee's characters, including a final reveal as an ultimately pathetic existence that isn't nearly as in control as they are initially presented.
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Jun 19, 2016 07:53
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It's bad.
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Jun 19, 2016 08:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The point of the line is the ambiguity: Dooku still considers himself a Jedi, and Lee is delivering the boast with a great deal of uncertainty after his old friend just called him a dark-sider. Can you point to exactly where and how he gives the reading a hint of resignation?
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Jun 19, 2016 08:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:See, I've asked a basic question about 'bad acting cadence' but your reply only briefly alludes to hand gestures and cinematography, before a rambling paragraph about laser combat. A paragraph about the set design & the choreography based around the set design for the climactic finales of 6 of the star wars movies yea, which you made me think about since i rewatched that entire fight to see how Dooku was acting! What do you think about the final battle in AOTC compared with the other movies? I think I bring up a pretty good point. Engage me on it, Bud! I think its objectively the worst out of the 6 for the reasons stated. Its the least dynamic fight by far. The set is most bland. Infact lets loving fight about it!! MOVIE FIGHJT!!       (tier list: red+blue > red > blue > brown Edit: This is as good as it gets folks!! Fighting in a bland hanger bay, thats lit like a grocery store, with nothing of any interest anywhere in the scene. All the close up shots are then, by necessity, the character bathed in the brown background of the wall, or maybe the slate grey floor because obi-wan is laying down for a nap, like the audience.  Lets go to the tape!!  these dudes look high af right now Jerkface fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 08:31
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No, you see, the hangar is bland on purpose and you just don't like Star Wars.
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Jun 19, 2016 09:09
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 BONUS GIF!! This part always makes me laugh. Why not just have the Jedi deactivate their sabers for the jaunt up into the ship? Because they already have the rods or whatever? It looks dumb as gently caress this guy is dragging his saber up into the ship like its a sword, its banging on the floor lmao I could understand if this was in the background of a scene but its a main shot in the great rescue.
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Jun 19, 2016 09:18
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So instead of criticism we get lame riffing.
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Jun 19, 2016 09:22
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What is not critique in this situation? Are the sets, how the actors move, the effects, choreography somehow not part of what makes a movie good? Why dont you add something to the discussion if you think dooku v jedi is so good. Feel free to use gifs and pics as well 
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Jun 19, 2016 09:25
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Top Ten Background FAILS in the Star Wars movies 3. This stormtrooper hits his head on the door! Pretty embarrassing, George.
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Jun 19, 2016 09:28
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Top Ten Background FAILS in the Star Wars movies Well youre ignoring my main post and focusing on a funny bonus gif but lemme tell you how is this anyway in the background. The jedi are the subjects of the shot and the main focus and they should have turned off their laser swords instead of looking like a kid just figured out the light saber effect in adobe premiere.
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Jun 19, 2016 09:32
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