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SelenicMartian posted:Ah, so people testing the PU are like the crew of Apollo 1. The Saturn V was basically ready to go at that point. They're more like Ham the monkey. e: space catizen taxe 
Discussion Quorum fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 21:09
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trucutru posted:I am just saying that, if after five/six years of work they manage to release one-two missions then everything will be validated guys! A whole two missions! Well just think of all the unreleased content they'll have by then!
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Jun 21, 2016 21:10
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Fat Shat Sings posted:Something I'm curious about. Setting aside that argument, I just don't have time for the grind. My friends and I don't want to sit and wait to grind out all the poo poo we would like (let's face it, It's pay to win even if they say it's not). I've played games like Aion, GW2, WoW and saying - for instance - that I spend a cumulative amount of time playing SC as I have those games, the cash equivalent of cash shop purchases, in game grinds, etc will likely come close to what I spent for SC thus far. Now, if I had just found out about the project (and let's say for argument sake there was no ambiguity that it was going to be released as promised), then yes: I would still have spent the same amount. As much as I hate to say it since some of your are sensitive to it, but the cash is but a quarterly bonus for me (literally). The bonus is my play money - to do with as I please. It doesn't affect me financially in anyway except that I use it to have fun. I spent it over time to see the game made. If I lose it - lesson learned (regarding crowdfunding). If not, and game is released as pitched, I start on day 1 not having to grind for some base poo poo.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:10
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haha lol "I've spent hundreds on a chariot with no one to play with in it" and what's the deal with the ... "Bangal"?
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Jun 21, 2016 21:10
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Welcome to the
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I'm confused about the profit in a crowd funding venture. All jokes about corporate spending abuse aside, doesn't profit have to be baked into the funding? Forget the current reality for a second. If SC was actually a game that was coming out wouldn't the actual profit have to come out of the 115 million, and not future sales. Sure the game could go on to make a lot of money after release through new customers, but even if it did it is not an investment to backers so there is nothing nefarious about that. I'm probably just confused, but what I'm saying is if this game was such a niche genre of game that no one expected to sell more copies after release, then a healthy profit should come from the original backer money?
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Jun 21, 2016 21:10
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Morris posted:I played WWIIOnline on and off over a number of years and it actually evolved into a very competent simulation. Ballistics, vehicle damage, and dynamics were actually modeled as physical processes and got pretty sophisticated. Unfortunately by the time it really started to reach its potential the player count had started to decline and it's a game that really needs a good critical mass of players. Well, the evil publisher forced its release. And this was in the days of 28.8K modems. On release you had to download a 70meg patch or something just to hop in. Then they had server problems, so they had to split up the entire world into separate server instances as a stop gap. With that said, I liked the early cowboy days of hopping into a truck to capture the radios. Amazing that somehow it all worked with 5 others sitting with you in the back given the early days of broadband/modems. And the fact it had actual flight physics. But guess what I'm saying is the dreams didn't pan out. Dreams of giant cities (Berlin, Paris, etc) were just that. Folks wanted to blow up the Eiffel Tower on release day. What they got was a MVP.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:11
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C-Bangin' it 
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ManofManyAliases posted:As much as I hate to say it since some of your are sensitive to it, but the cash is but a quarterly bonus for me (literally). The bonus is my play money - to do with as I please. I really doubt that's what you should be spending your government assistance on.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:12
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ManofManyAliases posted:Setting aside that argument, I just don't have time for the grind. My friends and I don't want to sit and wait to grind out all the poo poo we would like (let's face it, It's pay to win even if they say it's not). Then... why would you want to support a game that you believe will be dead out of the gate?!
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Jun 21, 2016 21:12
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ManofManyAliases posted:I don't have an answer for that except to say I'm waiting like the rest of the backers to see videos of the promises to be released this year. Didnt you do that last year? or the year before... or the ye
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Jun 21, 2016 21:13
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Sedisp posted:So then like I said you don't really have anything to go on besides faith. If you're admitting that then I guess to each their own. I have no idea why someone would have faith in a man who is notorious at promising a cake then delivering a bowl of flour but hey that's just me. Well, yes: it's faith. It's a gamble, and that's what I took this crowdfunding gig to be.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:13
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ManofManyAliases posted:literally full of developers and designers saying (this is what I'm working on now, and this is what's going on, we're building this, etc..). STEPS TO REPRODUCE 1 Back game 2 back game some more 3 back game even more 4 back game even more ACTUAL RESULT  EXPECTED RESULT 
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Jun 21, 2016 21:14
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Sedisp posted:Then... why would you want to support a game that you believe will be dead out of the gate?! Don't get me wrong - I don't think it'll be a complete and utter grind in which you're forced to start from the ground-floor. I just want to start the game at a completely different level. My friends are a fairly large org, and in other games - we compete accordingly.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:16
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GarudaPrime posted:I'm confused about the profit in a crowd funding venture. The money was "supposed" to be for development. Crowdfunding has turned into a for-profit venture, but they collected money under the guise of soliciting for development cost. The profit comes off the dedication from fans for helping to produce a game that sells well afterwards. Of course, thats not how it works and kickstarter is running that show into the ground, but that's how its supposed to work.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:16
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ManofManyAliases posted:I don't have an answer for that except to say I'm waiting like the rest of the backers to see videos of the promises to be released this year. Ah yes, videos of promises, that they'll sure be able to deliver!
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Jun 21, 2016 21:16
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GarudaPrime posted:I'm confused about the profit in a crowd funding venture. Well the idea behind crowd funding is to have a 1-4 week campaign where you raise the development cost for your game. Then make profit once the crowd has helped fund the development of your game that is then completed, released and sold. I don't think it was ever intended to milk literally every red cent you possibly could out of your entire target demographic for years and years and years. You are correct that at a certain point you have pre-sold things to most people that would actually buy those things post release. The difference here is that there isn't a game yet for all of this money, so what would have been profit had they released their game is now all earmarked as development cost.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:18
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ManofManyAliases posted:Don't get me wrong - I don't think it'll be a complete and utter grind in which you're forced to start from the ground-floor. I just want to start the game at a completely different level. My friends are a fairly large org, and in other games - we compete accordingly. how the gently caress do you know there will be a grind? What if (big if) theres a series of missions that expect some lonely pilot to run through, but if you have a friend that has some big ship the missions are a joke and everyone exploits this and makes credits and buys whatever my point is you cant argue "GRIND" without any concept of economy in game. There's no ratio to time spent in game to price of ships, because roberts would be a loving fool to make one now that hes selling concept art earning millions a year ever notice the first thing you can buy in game with credits is loving clothes? Clothes? Why not ships? Because its a loving scam and go eat a bunch of dicks you moronic gently caress why do i have to edxplain this poo poo to you are you a functional adult star citizen has made me angry again
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Jun 21, 2016 21:18
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ManofManyAliases posted:Setting aside that argument, I just don't have time for the grind. My friends and I don't want to sit and wait to grind out all the poo poo we would like (let's face it, It's pay to win even if they say it's not). I've played games like Aion, GW2, WoW and saying - for instance - that I spend a cumulative amount of time playing SC as I have those games, the cash equivalent of cash shop purchases, in game grinds, etc will likely come close to what I spent for SC thus far. Do you think this game could be described as the most pay to win game ever created (considering the prices are many hundreds of times higher than any other game), and do you believe that this will make the game popular or unpopular?
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Jun 21, 2016 21:19
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116+ Million make this possible. Star Citizen will be a system seller and save PC Gaming and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMCrMilsozk
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Jun 21, 2016 21:19
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Matlock Birthmark posted:I really doubt that's what you should be spending your government assistance on. Ok. Madcosby posted:how the gently caress do you know there will be a grind? Valid point - I don't know. I'm speculating. Why would they design larger, multi-function ships and smaller multi-function ships if not to say one is more difficult to obtain and maintain than the other?
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Jun 21, 2016 21:21
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ManofManyAliases posted:My friends and I c'mon son
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Jun 21, 2016 21:22
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ManofManyAliases posted:Well, yes: it's faith. It's a gamble, and that's what I took this crowdfunding gig to be. No? Yeah no. Crowdfunding might be faith if you're an idiot or it can be pretty much a sure thing if the company has a track record of success. I mean faith and gamble don't even mean the same thing. The difference with you is after you've seen a mountain of evidence that tells you things are going rather poorly you keep doubling down. That's no longer gambling that's stupidity. Albeit a very Croberts esque stupidity.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:22
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ManofManyAliases posted:Ok. to make money by scamming idiots do you ever wonder why you cant figure that out yourself
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Jun 21, 2016 21:22
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Well I'm glad we agree. It's really sad people using their disability and government assistance to buy space ship pictures. You shouldn't have done that.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:25
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ManofManyAliases posted:Don't get me wrong - I don't think it'll be a complete and utter grind in which you're forced to start from the ground-floor. I just want to start the game at a completely different level. My friends are a fairly large org, and in other games - we compete accordingly. But... you have literally no concept of what the game would even theoretically be like. Hell the people MAKING the game don't even have the framework of how the game will work. You could find yourself in a hilarious situation of having literally nothing to do with your ships because the systems that they are designed for are broken or nonexistent. hell with how spergy they want the game to be you could find that the operating costs of the ships outweighs their use. None of this has even been addressed by the people making the game and that is a really good sign they haven't thought about it for a single second.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:26
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Consider the following: An Aurora is an intro level ship. It costs like $45 They reveal the BlahBlah a super mining ship that mines really well! It's $450 Without mining in game how the gently caress can you compare if the BlahBlah is 10x better than the Aurora? You cant. A rational person would say "I cannot validate spending that much until I know what purpose it serves" A Citizen would say "Wow it comes with LTI!"
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Jun 21, 2016 21:26
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Madcosby posted:to make money by scamming idiots Forget it Cosby. It's Anustown.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:26
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ManofManyAliases posted:Setting aside that argument, I just don't have time for the grind. My friends and I don't want to sit and wait to grind out all the poo poo we would like (let's face it, It's pay to win even if they say it's not). I've played games like Aion, GW2, WoW and saying - for instance - that I spend a cumulative amount of time playing SC as I have those games, the cash equivalent of cash shop purchases, in game grinds, etc will likely come close to what I spent for SC thus far. You don't have to explain the concept of disposable income to me. I personally love to spend money in games for nebulous benefits that I probably shouldn't. I'll be right up there buying special ships in STO, Plex for EVE, special mounts for Atlantica or any number of MMOs. However, you are talking about skipping a grind and what you will be skipping when you have no idea. You have no idea if you will even like the game, you have no idea how much grind you will be skipping, you have no idea what these ships will actually be. If you had went out and dropped $4000 on gold mechs in MWO or gambling boxes in Maplestory I'd be like "drat, well whatever floats your boat bro" but you are justifying your purchase with things you can't possibly know for a game you probably won't even receive. That's why people are giving you poo poo and your "disposable income you spend on a hobby" isn't seen the same way as someone buying farmville cash for more tractor cash. It's buying nothing for no reason.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:28
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Sedisp posted:But... you have literally no concept of what the game would even theoretically be like. Hell the people MAKING the game don't even have the framework of how the game will work. You could find yourself in a hilarious situation of having literally nothing to do with your ships because the systems that they are designed for are broken or nonexistent. Like I said: I think they have a lot of this planned out behind the scenes and are not being open about it (nor have they implemented anything yet) because (possibly) they're saving it for bigger reveals this year and next. It does go against the 'open nature' of development that they have claimed though.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:31
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ManofManyAliases posted:Ok. Yet at the same time they've specifically said that the game will not be pay to win under any circumstances. So one part of their game design utterly contradicts another part of their game design. And it's just one of many examples of where various parts of their game design are in direct conflict with each other. What do you think caused this? What phenomena could cause a guy who hasn't made video games in 15 years to say completely contradictory things that cannot possibly work? A guy who's last video game was released back when FMV's were the cutting edge of technology? Do you think that there's any possibility that it could be explained by incompetence? Have you ever thought for a second that there isn't actually a coherent design document anywhere but in fact an extremely rusty game developer has been given a blank cheque by a bunch of sycophants and is making things up as he goes along? At any point has the possibility of any of this crossed your mind? Because it would explain literally every aspect of this game's development. Every single one.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:32
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MoMA, I ask you this: How do you think the economy of a game where ships cost hundreds of dollars should work? Consider that A) Ships will be acquirable through in game currency, meaning that hypothetically a complete random can get an Idris without putting any money in the game, and B) There are currently no ways to cash in game currency out, meaning that every single transaction that creates UEC out of real dollars causes inflation. Or do you believe that ship prices will go down during release? If so, why buy them now?
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Jun 21, 2016 21:33
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Chalks posted:Yet at the same time they've specifically said that the game will not be pay to win under any circumstances. KiddieGrinder posted:Forget it Chalks. It's Anustown.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:34
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ManofManyAliases posted:Like I said: I think they have a lot of this planned out behind the scenes and are not being open about it (nor have they implemented anything yet) because (possibly) they're saving it for bigger reveals this year and next. It does go against the 'open nature' of development that they have claimed though. But that's the thing. You HOPE that they do when all evidence points to no they haven't. You hope this because if they don't have it planned out you know exactly how hosed they are.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:34
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Chalks posted:Yet at the same time they've specifically said that the game will not be pay to win under any circumstances. Yes - I have, and I can't think that a person who is under such public scrutiny would be so blatant as to take 100+ mil and say 'gently caress all of you' without knowing there are going to be serious repercussions. But, I also don't believe that is the issue. I think he's passionate enough to know that he was loving up and took a step back, refocused energies and is keeping everything quiet and underwraps now so that he can just churn out actual resutls (which is why he's spending so much time in UK and is no longer providing hard dates or promises).
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Jun 21, 2016 21:34
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ManofManyAliases posted:Like I said: I think they have a lot of this planned out behind the scenes and are not being open about it (nor have they implemented anything yet) because (possibly) they're saving it for bigger reveals this year and next. It does go against the 'open nature' of development that they have claimed though.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:35
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KiddieGrinder posted:Forget it Everyone. It's Anustown.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:35
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ManofManyAliases posted:Like I said: I think they have a lot of this planned out behind the scenes and are not being open about it (nor have they implemented anything yet) because (possibly) they're saving it for bigger reveals this year and next. It does go against the 'open nature' of development that they have claimed though. e: because I'm an idiot and posted the wrong thing. What does CIG possibly have to gain by hiding the specifics behind how the game will actually work?
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Jun 21, 2016 21:36
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ManofManyAliases posted:Yes - I have, and I can't think that a person who is under such public scrutiny would be so blatant as to take 100+ mil and say 'gently caress all of you' without knowing there are going to be serious repercussions. But, I also don't believe that is the issue. I think he's passionate enough to know that he was loving up and took a step back, refocused energies and is keeping everything quiet and underwraps now so that he can just churn out actual resutls (which is why he's spending so much time in UK and is no longer providing hard dates or promises). People have squandered millions of crowdfunded funds before, just look at ReRoll or MN9. What makes you think that Chris Roberts can't get away with just going "WELL THIS IS THE GAME" while delivering a small fraction of what was promised?
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Jun 21, 2016 21:39
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ManofManyAliases posted:But, I also don't believe that is the issue. I think he's passionate enough to know that he was loving up and took a step back, refocused energies and is keeping everything quiet and underwraps now so that he can just churn out actual resutls (which is why he's spending so much time in UK and is no longer providing hard dates or promises). But he did this before and had to be removed because he was so terrible at realizing he is a colossal gently caress up. If THAT wasn't enough to tell him he's a terrible project lead a cult dedicated to him telling him that actually he was a genius and those people who kicked him off the project were stifling his genius that won't likely have a positive outcome. No he was probably focusing on trying to get SQ42 done or more likely get literally anything they can show off for SQ42 for gamescom. Sedisp fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 21:39
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ManofManyAliases posted:Like I said: I think they have a lot of this planned out behind the scenes and are not being open about it (nor have they implemented anything yet) because (possibly) they're saving it for bigger reveals this year and next. It does go against the 'open nature' of development that they have claimed though. If only there was some kind of large forum or medium for showing such a large reveal. Some sort of convention, or conference maybe. There really should be some kind of place where people go to see new trailers and footage of upcoming games. Perhaps some kind of centralized event, held annually, specifically for this purpose.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:39
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ManofManyAliases posted:Yes - I have, and I can't think that a person who is under such public scrutiny would be so blatant as to take 100+ mil and say 'gently caress all of you' without knowing there are going to be serious repercussions. But, I also don't believe that is the issue. I think he's passionate enough to know that he was loving up and took a step back, refocused energies and is keeping everything quiet and underwraps now so that he can just churn out actual resutls (which is why he's spending so much time in UK and is no longer providing hard dates or promises). No amount of passion can make a known gently caress up, not gently caress it up. He's clearly being lied to and manipulated by people who want to stretch this poo poo out for a paycheck. Sure there are real people who care mixed in, but it's literally dnf.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:40
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