|
I really like Vision, but it does seem like a Red Tornado story with the numbers filed off.
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 21:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 00:44 |
|
|
Except that it's good, which I refuse to believe a Red Tornado story could be.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 21:58
|
|
|
Squizzle posted:Except that it's good, which I refuse to believe a Red Tornado story could be. Young Justice says otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 22:03
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:I feel like it's just "what if VIsion was an android with no emotions and no soul so he can't play music and he can't have romance with hu-man beings because he's such a robot even though he has and so yeah he's made a crazy robot family because he has because isn't that creepy" I understand your frustrated with them writing Vision out of character, but this is an unfair representation of the story. Vision and his family clearly have emotions, as that drives the central conflict. It's also obvious that his decision to settle down with his current wife and to "erase" his emotional memories is all a sad attempt to get over Wanda, which he clearly hasn't. Like a lot of classic horror, the creepiness in the comic doesn't come from the outlandish, but the mundane. Ultimately, this comic is about a man trying and failing to live a normal life, with horrific consequences.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 22:06
|
|
|
I enjoy the deconstructive nature of the book, since it really is a '60s Hanna-Barbera cartoon that somebody decided to seriously gently caress with. A robot superhero with his robot wife, children, and dog, who tries to manufacture a normal life in the suburbs to retreat to after a hard day's work saving the world, could be a sitcom. If you seriously edited the pages as written and maybe redid the coloring, it often would be a sitcom. ("Woof.") Instead, it's probably the creepiest book in Marvel's current line.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 22:31
|
|
|
IMHO the notion that "Vision is a robot obsessed with the idea of family" is somehow untrue to the character's entire publication history is loving laughable. "Family" is the throughline for basically every Vision story. Ultron's his "father," Wonder Man is his "brother," it's always been about family with him. He builds a new robot family because every time he tries making an actual family it gets all hosed up because he is a robot and cannot have nice things, and also because he doesn't quite grok that "all hosed up" is the default state of basically any family in human history. He wants a Norman Rockwell painting and can't have it but because he's a creature of logic he simply decides that he must not have done it right last time so he'll do better this time, because the problem is clearly with his family and not with his own flawed understanding of what family means. Every good Vision story - every Vision story that I can remember, whether good or not - revolved around family to some degree, be it his relationship with Wanda, his relationship with Simon, his relationship with Ultron, et cetera. Stripping away the accumulated familial dross and trying to start from scratch with a built-to-order family instead isn't ignoring the character's history; it's the culmination of it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 00:19
|
|
|
It's all about family. For a bunch of robots, these are really human characters. And the kids get to spend time with their uncle in the latest issue. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 02:19
|
|
|
Vision is a top-10 book but not a top-5 for me (Wolverine, Ms M, Ultimates, SG, X'92, I think); it's good and compelling and I can't wait to see how it ends yet I wish it had more time to tell its story. I also hate the periodic narration that "something really bad will happen in the future" which is a thing I hate in every single instance of its use. Depending on how foreboding the current mood of the story is, it's either unnecessary or a crutch. Love the idea that if you changed all the dialogue/narration (and maybe removed a couple choice panels) it could be remade into a sitcom. Someone better than me should try this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 02:24
|
|
|
glitchwraith posted:I understand your frustrated with them writing Vision out of character, but this is an unfair representation of the story. Vision and his family clearly have emotions, as that drives the central conflict. It's also obvious that his decision to settle down with his current wife and to "erase" his emotional memories is all a sad attempt to get over Wanda, which he clearly hasn't. Like a lot of classic horror, the creepiness in the comic doesn't come from the outlandish, but the mundane. Ultimately, this comic is about a man trying and failing to live a normal life, with horrific consequences. It's also blatant that he is not over Wanda when he uses her brain waves. It's him doing what Wanda did, but with technology instead of magic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 04:33
|
|
|
Oh god. We're going to get Ultron with Vin and Viv for hands.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 07:56
|
|
|
I really want Ultron to show up for a 'Oh grandpa!' issue.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 08:10
|
|
|
SynthOrange posted:I really want Ultron to show up for a 'Oh grandpa!' issue. Could just have them push his head around in a wheelchair as he rants angrily about things.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 09:12
|
|
|
The latest Ms. Marvel is finally touching on the themes I was expecting when they first started pitching the idea for Civil War II. It's a little hosed that I'm getting that from one of the tie-ins rather than the main series, but oh well. Still, the accuracy of Ulysses' predictions so far is still making it hard to side against Captain Marvel even though I can see why it'd make some people feel uncomfortable. I'm interested to see how this turns out, which can't really be said for the main Civil War II series. My favorite part though was getting some backstory on Kamala's family. Viridiant fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jun 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 11:17
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:Could just have them push his head around in a wheelchair as he rants angrily about things. <Unsolicited opinions about humanity?>
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 14:49
|
|
|
Viridiant posted:The latest Ms. Marvel is finally touching on the themes I was expecting when they first started pitching the idea for Civil War II. It's a little hosed that I'm getting that from one of the tie-ins rather than the main series, but oh well. #CanadianNinjaLivesMatter So far I've read Power Man & Iron Fist, Ms. marvel, and Gwenpool, with Ultimates left to go. And of those three my favorite might've been Gwenpool? It's somehow meta without being cheesy about it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 18:06
|
|
|
Gwenpool 3 was fuckin' incredible, yo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
I have a soft spot for supervillains engaging in the mundane bureaucratic side of supervillainy, so MODOK being super concerned about his payroll hits all the right notes for me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 20:05
|
|
|
Ever since Marvel realized how utterly ridiculous MODOK actually is several years ago he's been great almost every time he's showed up. Even on the Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon he was done amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CFc7s4aDlM
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 22:39
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Gwenpool 3 was fuckin' incredible, yo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 23:17
|
|
|
Is Gwenpool worth picking up? Part of me is wary of it being a cynical push for Marvel to have a Harley Quinn like character. Has anyone picked up Deadpool v Gambit? Cover gaff aside I thought the preview looked really good.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
How's Young Avengers volume 1? I really like Hulkling and Wiccan and would like to see more of them. (I've read Gillen's YA and am caught up on New Avengers.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
Nilbop posted:Is Gwenpool worth picking up? Part of me is wary of it being a cynical push for Marvel to have a Harley Quinn like character. So far she's nothing like Harley. She's a comic book fan that's trying to wade through the Marvel universe with a sense of humor and a secret arsenal of lore.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:How's Young Avengers volume 1? I really like Hulkling and Wiccan and would like to see more of them. (I've read Gillen's YA and am caught up on New Avengers.) Pretty great, kind of dated (2005ish) so the dialogue isn't very hip but it's still a great read. Don't read the Children's Crusade follow up though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 23:27
|
|
|
Nilbop posted:Is Gwenpool worth picking up? Part of me is wary of it being a cynical push for Marvel to have a Harley Quinn like character. Yes. Issue one was kinda rough but issues 2 and especially 3 were loving fantastic. She's absolutely nothing like Harley Quinn in any way. She's a clear hero (or someone clearly attempting to be a hero) over the weird atonal sexualized psychopathic mass murderer who's also a victim of deep-seated spousal abuse like with Harley Quinn. Gwenpool avoids easy comparisons because there's really no character who works the same as her. Like, she's not even really anything like Deadpool, the character she's directly spun out of. If I were to compare her to any other superhero, it would be Superboy Prime, but unlike Superboy Prime she doesn't actually have any superpowers. She's totally texturally different than every other character in the big two, and her stories somehow end up super fascinating over a bunch of inside jokes to Marvel continuity, which is exactly what you'd expect would happen when the main character is a totally powerless teenaged girl whose one defining trait is that she's read (and is currently reading, I assume) a bunch of comic books. If you pick up Gwenpool pick up her issue 0, since it collects all her previous appearances (including her backups in Howard, which might've given you the impression that she's Harley Quinn-ish since she's sort of a whacky anti-hero in there).
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 23:34
|
|
|
Apraxin posted:Oh god, it just hit me hours after reading it that Gwen's dad is called Ted. He's Tedpool! And her mom's a ginger. She's a red Poole.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 23:50
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:How's Young Avengers volume 1? I really like Hulkling and Wiccan and would like to see more of them. (I've read Gillen's YA and am caught up on New Avengers.) Better than Gillen's book. Though you actually liked it, so who knows what you'll think of it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 23:51
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:How's Young Avengers volume 1? I really like Hulkling and Wiccan and would like to see more of them. (I've read Gillen's YA and am caught up on New Avengers.) Very much a "traditional" teen superhero team book - it is very similar to Geoff Johns's Teen Titans which ran contemporaneously, if that means anything (Heinberg and Johns were sharing a studio at the time the original Young Avengers came out).
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 23:59
|
|
|
Apraxin posted:Oh god, it just hit me hours after reading it that Gwen's dad is called Ted. He's Tedpool! More importantly, he's Dadpool.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 00:06
|
|
|
Ms. Marvel was great, and continues to meet my high expectations of the book. Totally Awesome Hulk was interesting too, looking into how Bruce has been doing lately. Scarlet Witch is also getting back into my good graces after a lil' bit of a lull; cool art, cool characters, cool story. Mighty Thor was my surprise highlight of the week. I had no idea there was a new Silver Samurai and that one page of him punking the Roxxon guy was superb.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 00:42
|
|
|
Viridiant posted:The latest Ms. Marvel is finally touching on the themes I was expecting when they first started pitching the idea for Civil War II. It's a little hosed that I'm getting that from one of the tie-ins rather than the main series, but oh well. Not sure how you can think this when Carol said Ulysses' ability is probability based. So unless that probability is 100% she's dead wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 00:58
|
|
|
KidDynamite posted:Not sure how you can think this when Carol said Ulysses' ability is probability based. So unless that probability is 100% she's dead wrong. "Oh there's a high chance of Galactus showing up and eating all of China before we can stop him. Let's get the teams geared up and ready, if he doesn't happen hey, at least we were ready." Vs "Nah it's just a chance who cares that if we are wrong and it does happen billions of people will die"
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 01:00
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:"Oh there's a high chance of Galactus showing up and eating all of China before we can stop him. Let's get the teams geared up and ready, if he doesn't happen hey, at least we were ready." She has Kamala stop and pre-arrest a guy from robbing a loving grocery store. c'mon son.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 01:07
|
|
|
KidDynamite posted:Not sure how you can think this when Carol said Ulysses' ability is probability based. So unless that probability is 100% she's dead wrong. I forgot that quote, and was instead remembering the line Kamala said that was something like 'His predictions have been completely correct' or something. The store robber thing was definitely sketchy as gently caress though, I'm with you there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 01:19
|
|
|
The only way Ulysses' abilities are justifiable to use as a way to address pre-crime are 1) if he's omniscient and 2) if he's sociopathic. If he's not omniscient - if he's not 100% accurate at all times, every time - then it's profiling, which is in no way different than wiretaps or terror lists, just even more invasive. If he's not sociopathic - if he has any amount of empathy or personal investment in any other people - then he can pick or choose which visions he reports on. For instance - say Magneto murders his family/someone he cares about/has affection for, and then he gets a vision of Medusa killing Magneto in such a way that nobody outside of him could ever know that she did it, he would be overwhelmingly motivated to not report on such an event happening. And the instant that Ulysses can determine which pre-crimes he does or doesn't report, he's inflicting bias on the visions making them definitionally useless. Tony's being a crazy rear end in a top hat about it but he's right, and the Ms. Marvel issue reinforces it. Ulysses' powers cannot be used to apprehend criminals before they become criminals. It can be used as an early warning system, but beyond that you're essentially arguing probability theory but as applies to the concept of free will.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 01:35
|
|
|
I was a little confused by the way the Ms. Marvel team "tested" these predictions. Because...well, not only did they stop every one from happening, but they also stopped every one from beginning to happen...so how could they know that it would've still happened exactly like Ulysses saw it? If he sees that a bomb is about to explode, sure, maybe don't let the bomb explode in the name of research, but the point of Carol's tests wasn't just to see if he is correct, but how much he is correct about how much of these events. What if he's right about the beginning, but wrong about the end? What if the event doesn't start like he thought it would, but ends like it anyway? And you can't test that at all if you stop all these "crimes" right at the outset of his predictions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 01:53
|
|
|
Ulysses also seems to be a pretty scared guy who's pretty in over his head. It would be easy for someone to intimidate him into claiming he had a vision that he didn't actually have.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 02:04
|
|
|
So far the Ms. Marvel tie-in is the only Civil War II thing yet to even introduce a hint of sketchiness to Ulysses' powers, something this event desperately needed. Also Gwenpool is definitely pretty amazingly good considering her existence is entirely due to variant cover gags. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 06:55
|
|
|
Watch it be completely ignore in the main book for more punches til they all realize that the real treasure was their friendship.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 06:58
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:So far the Ms. Marvel tie-in is the only Civil War II thing yet to even introduce a hint of sketchiness to Ulysses' powers, something this event desperately needed. Actually, a lot of those concepts have been brought in, in other books. In the Spider-Man Civil War 2 tie-in, Spidey compares his Spider-sense with Uylesses and talks about probability and how far in advance his warning gives him. He also questions him about if his personal bias effects the predictions. (You said that guy is going to mug that woman. Is it just because he's a minority? Lol, I'm hispanic, I can't be racist. But he totally has a gun and is about to mug that woman.) In fact, even looking back over the Bendis issues of the main series Tony both raises the probability question ("IF these futures are garunteed to happen, these warnings are pointless because we can't change them. If they are not garunteed, then they are meaningless because they can be changed.") and in the second issue the question of personal bias is also raised by Tony.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 08:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 00:44 |
|
|
So in other Civil War II news, I read the Captain America (Sam) issue. And it's the funeral of Jim Rhodes. Which is fine, it's good to see him get a send off. And there's a bit where they talk about having the funeral in Philedelphia instead of Arlington saying this is what Jim would have wanted. Then we go into a back room for before the funeral and Sam talks about how Jim's family is there. And it's Sam Wilson and Misty Knight, Luke Cage, Black Panther, Storm, Dr. Voodoo, Monica Rembeau and Nick Fury. (And Blade is sorry he couldn't make it.) And there's a long back and forth about how it went down, that he's at peace, that this is what he would want and that as a community they have to show up when they lose one of their own. And...the whole thing just really rubbed me the wrong way. Like I understand that they wanted to address the political issue surrounding a black hero dieing and not just write it off.... But part of me just said, I'd love for the ghost of Jim Rhodes to appear and say "What the gently caress is all this? I wanted to be burried at Arlington. I deserve that for dieing in the line of duty. And while I appreciate you all for showing up at this funeral before the funeral....what the Hell? Storm? Dr. Voodoo? The new Nick Fury? I have never met most of you before today. At least Blade made up an excuse and stayed at home rather then come to a funeral for a guy he knew nothing about." You know, have him just tear strips out of everyone. Maybe this is just me, but the whole scene just felt so weird, because there was no connection between so many guys.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 09:16
|
|