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Darkest Auer posted:Joku ruotsipostaajia lukeva voisi kyllä tehdä tiivistelmän niiden kyynelistä nyt. Yes please. If someone comes across juicy posts in the scandipol thread or somewhere, do share them!
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Jun 23, 2016 08:56
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Kemper Boyd posted:I don't think it's historically that much controversial that this part of Europe, too, benefited from the slave trade and took part in it. Please tell me you are not serious posting...
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Jun 23, 2016 10:29
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DanTheFryingPan posted:Everyone's favorite rational actors are changing their name again, because Viskipuolue was thought to be too comical, while people will most certainly trust a party that's called Vapaus valita. quote:Suomen Liberaalisen puolueen varapuheenjohtaja Kim Sjöström on tuohtunut Viskipuolueen nimenmuutoksesta. Sjöströmin mukaan Liberaalipuolueen perään tuleva "Vapaus valita" -lisäosa ei tuo selkeyttä, vaan tekee puolueesta "matkijaryhmän." Lol, the People's Front of Judea is now pissed at the Judean People's Front - Vapaus valita
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Jun 23, 2016 10:34
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It's not really that complicated. Finland, as a part of Europe and the western world, benefited and continues to benefit from the capitalist system that was built on colonialism and slavery. Whether someone directly bought or sold slaves is irrelevant.
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Jun 23, 2016 10:34
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I agree, we should switch back to bartering squirrel skins and turnips.
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Jun 23, 2016 10:44
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doverhog posted:It's not really that complicated. Finland, as a part of Europe and the western world, benefited and continues to benefit from the capitalist system that was built on colonialism and slavery. Whether someone directly bought or sold slaves is irrelevant. Next you're going to say that I'm somehow morally responsible for the conditions in which cheapo fruits, coffee, chocolate, electronics, Moldavian hobo porn and Turun Sinappi are produced for my consumption?? 
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Jun 23, 2016 10:48
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Darkest Auer posted:I agree, we should switch back to bartering squirrel skins and turnips. http://kana-fin.mbnet.fi/pekka/nainonmarjat.ogg
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Jun 23, 2016 10:48
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ofc I'm kidding, don't use Åbo Senap kids
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Jun 23, 2016 10:49
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Nenonen posted:ofc I'm kidding, don't use Åbo Senap kids http://kana-fin.mbnet.fi/pekka/goodmorning.ogg
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Jun 23, 2016 10:52
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Nenonen posted:Next you're going to say that I'm somehow morally responsible for the conditions in which cheapo fruits, coffee, chocolate, electronics, Moldavian hobo porn and Turun Sinappi are produced for my consumption?? Indeed, everyone participating in the system is complicit. That doesn't mean I'm telling you to go live in a turnip cave. You can start by feeling vaguely bad about it and see if that influences your political thinking. 
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Jun 23, 2016 10:53
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Jun 23, 2016 10:59
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doverhog posted:It's not really that complicated. Finland, as a part of Europe and the western world, benefited and continues to benefit from the capitalist system that was built on colonialism and slavery. Whether someone directly bought or sold slaves is irrelevant. doverhog posted:Indeed, everyone participating in the system is complicit. That doesn't mean I'm telling you to go live in a turnip cave. You can start by feeling vaguely bad about it and see if that influences your political thinking. ah yes, guilt by association
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Jun 23, 2016 11:22
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doverhog haluaa vain että asetamme entiset siirtomaat kauppasaartoon
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Jun 23, 2016 11:23
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Nauta posted:ah yes, guilt by association Participation != association. No concrete political actions were suggested. Just a little nugget for you to think about.
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Jun 23, 2016 11:26
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I don't think that it's controversial to suggest that life in Afrika was much better during colonial times, some minor naughtiness aside. Maybe we should consider giving some nations there a guiding hand again. And please no sputtering about how horrible life there actually was, we know it was much better than what they have now. The clear fact is that there was no massive 'refugee' wave back then as there is now.
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Jun 23, 2016 12:00
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I have suggestion: REPARATIONS! For too long have our Swedish colonial masters enjoyed fruits of our ancestors labour. Give us our Phone companies, Mustards and other important national treasures back! Also our fair share of snus-industry.
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Jun 23, 2016 12:00
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doverhog posted:Participation != association. Funny enough, when I sat in on a transatlantic history course a few years back, these discussions were brought up. Since Finland has a rather artificially created national view on history (Finnish writers still talk of Ruotsi-Suomi when no such thing actually existed) , we don't really ever talk about us being part of the greater European sphere in the Early Modern. Instead we have a view that we were somehow a colony of Sweden or something in that direction, when it's p obvious that just wasn't true in any way. So Finnish people still get weirdly pissy about poo poo like pointing out that the sugar people here ate came from slave plantations and that we sold timber, tar and pitch to shipbuilders who built ships for the Triangle trade. And so on and so on.
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Jun 23, 2016 12:06
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Kemper Boyd posted:Funny enough, when I sat in on a transatlantic history course a few years back, these discussions were brought up. Yeah but only rich people i.e. hurris ate sugar, Actual Finns had to make do with horrible imelletty foods.
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Jun 23, 2016 12:10
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Puistokemisti posted:And please no sputtering about how horrible life there actually was, we know it was much better than what they have now. The clear fact is that there was no massive 'refugee' wave back then as there is now. Things were so peachy, people had to be forcible taken from their homes to widen their world view! Kemper Boyd posted:So Finnish people still get weirdly pissy about poo poo like pointing out that the sugar people here ate came from slave plantations and that we sold timber, tar and pitch to shipbuilders who built ships for the Triangle trade. And so on and so on. Look, without triangle and maracas and tambourine trade we would still be stuck playing cuntele and we would never have had Sibelius, Hynynen and Matti Esko. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 12:13
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adhuin posted:I have suggestion: REPARATIONS! nyt kun tuli uusi tupakkalaki, niin onko nuuskan maahantuonti kokonaan laitonta?
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Jun 23, 2016 12:18
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Kemper Boyd posted:Funny enough, when I sat in on a transatlantic history course a few years back, these discussions were brought up. i think that i was like 25 until i learned that Ruotsi-Suomi had never existed
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Jun 23, 2016 12:22
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How did Ruotsi-Suomi not exist? Serious question, is this a question of saying "well it was only the coastal areas" or "Finland wasn't a separate part of Sweden" or what?
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Jun 23, 2016 12:50
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Puistokemisti posted:I don't think that it's controversial to suggest that life in Afrika was much better during colonial times, some minor naughtiness aside. Yeah, back during colonial times there were plenty of Congolese people who really needed a hand or two. Darkest Auer posted:How did Ruotsi-Suomi not exist? Serious question, is this a question of saying "well it was only the coastal areas" or "Finland wasn't a separate part of Sweden" or what? Finland was an integral part of Sweden, and therefore it's kinda inaccurate to present it like there were two separate entities involved.
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Jun 23, 2016 12:53
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Darkest Auer posted:How did Ruotsi-Suomi not exist? Serious question, is this a question of saying "well it was only the coastal areas" or "Finland wasn't a separate part of Sweden" or what? jälkimmäinen ja se termi keksittiin vasta 20-luvulla suomalaisten toimesta bysanttikin on vanhempi valtio
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Jun 23, 2016 12:57
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lol jos vakavasti luulet että afrikka ois parempi ilman euroopan vaikutusta se on kuin ulisisi rooman vaikutuksesta euroopan kehitykseen
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Jun 23, 2016 13:00
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Cerebral Bore posted:Yeah, back during colonial times there were plenty of Congolese people who really needed a hand or two.  Itse näkisin että lännen ja etelän siirtomaavallat ovat itse vastuussa afrikkalaisten alistamisesta, toisin kuin pienet idän kansat, joilla ei edes omaa valtiota ko. aikana. Onko Tsetseenit vastuussa Keisarillisen/neuvosto Venäjän hirmutöistä tai muut itä-euroopan entiset alamaiskansat herrojensa tekemisistä?
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Jun 23, 2016 13:10
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adhuin posted:
Well from what I've read in Pravda, Chechnyans are responsible for literally everything bad.
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Jun 23, 2016 13:11
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pitäiskö länsivaltioiden sitten antaa seuraavan ebola-epidemian levitä vapaasti jotta me emme vaikuittaisi mitenkään afrikkalaisten asioihin?
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Jun 23, 2016 13:11
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Triple A posted:pitäiskö länsivaltioiden sitten antaa seuraavan ebola-epidemian levitä vapaasti jotta me emme vaikuittaisi mitenkään afrikkalaisten asioihin? They are going to.
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Jun 23, 2016 13:13
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Tämä lanka kyllä säännöllisin välein pakottaa kyseenalaistamaan suomalaisen peruskoulun historian opetuksen tehokkuutta.
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Jun 23, 2016 13:16
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Cerebral Bore posted:Tämä lanka kyllä säännöllisin välein pakottaa kyseenalaistamaan suomalaisen peruskoulun historian opetuksen tehokkuutta. siellähän nämä juuri opetetaan! tehokkaasti on mennyt oppi perille.
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Jun 23, 2016 13:21
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doverhog posted:It's not really that complicated. Finland, as a part of Europe and the western world, benefited and continues to benefit from the capitalist system that was built on colonialism and slavery. Whether someone directly bought or sold slaves is irrelevant. Next doverhog tells us he studies naistutkimus at Tampereen Yliopisto, specializes in Intersectionalism, and plans to take courses in Objective Journalism in the same university soon!!
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Jun 23, 2016 13:27
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Tell us more about your sexual fantasies, please. 
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Jun 23, 2016 13:33
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doverhog posted:Tell us more about your sexual fantasies, please. Yeah but in E/N or somewhere else.
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Jun 23, 2016 13:34
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Jerry Cotton posted:Yeah but in E/N or somewhere else. ei, vaan täällä olen valmis
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Jun 23, 2016 13:34
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Kemper Boyd posted:Funny enough, when I sat in on a transatlantic history course a few years back, these discussions were brought up. Quick! Etsi Kemper lähin musta mies (tod. näk. somali jonka perhe elää täällä yhteiskunnan tuilla) ja pyydä polvillasi anteeksi kamalista teoistasi. Se varmaan arvostaisi suuresti. ps. ota doverhog mukaan
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Jun 23, 2016 13:43
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Ligur posted:Quick! Etsi Kemper lähin musta mies (tod. näk. somali jonka perhe elää täällä yhteiskunnan tuilla) ja pyydä polvillasi anteeksi kamalista teoistasi. Please do not be such a racist! Only Italians/British should apologize to Somalis. Fennoswedes should apologise to their former subjects in Ghana. 1649–1663 never forget! 
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Jun 23, 2016 13:51
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adhuin posted:Please do not be such a racist! Only Italians/British should apologize to Somalis. also french
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Jun 23, 2016 13:54
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and sweden had colonies in caribbean and north america too
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Jun 23, 2016 13:56
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Cerebral Bore posted:Finland was an integral part of Sweden, and therefore it's kinda inaccurate to present it like there were two separate entities involved. Admittedly I've read mostly sort-of-nationalist authors, but the picture I've gotten is that while everyone acknowledged Stockholm and the King as being the rulers, Finland always had its own strong identity and sense of separateness much stronger than other regions on the Swedish "mainland".
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Jun 23, 2016 13:57
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