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Arrgytehpirate posted:How is affirmative action not racism? Are you for real?
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Jun 23, 2016 15:42
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Joementum posted:I could quibble hear-or-there, but yeah, basically. There's no reason Democrats can't add reasonable due process protections to their legislative proposal. The lack of those protections isn't some clever strategy to call out Republicans, it's because the FBI doesn't want them in place and the administration and many legislators agree. That's lovely public policy and it's fine to say so, even if you support their other proposals and their political tactics here. Sure there is a reason. It's not a GOOD reason, but there is a reason: it would be extra work for no political payoff. Reducing the whole thing to,"You made the list, now you lie in it" is easy to do, easy for the public to understand as simple sound bites, and has no consequences for the people pushing for it, so obviously they do that.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:43
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gradenko_2000 posted:Are you for real? Won't someone think of the whites?! 
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Jun 23, 2016 15:43
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Oh boy. https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/745990659136491520
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Jun 23, 2016 15:43
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gradenko_2000 posted:Are you for real?
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Jun 23, 2016 15:44
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Samurai Sanders posted:They could be a foreigner, I remember needing to explain why letting shops not serve gays was a bad idea despite being private businesses to a foreigner once. He's not.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:45
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I don't think it can be described as making a point solely about the no fly lis or solely about gun control - the effort is to demonstrate the inherent contradictions of Republican ideology by forcing them to choose between expanding anti-terrorist surveillance and security programs or letting everyone have the freedom to own as many guns as they want. It's all about forcing the GOP into a situation where there's no right answer for them, which not only has obvious real-world political benefits but also demonstrates the inconstancy of modern republican thought. This incredibly silly notion would require believing that Democratic leadership isn't in sympathy with Republicans over the no fly list. They don't want to challenge it. The only reason the "it's just a prank, bro" narrative is popular is because believing it lets people talk about how clever their side is for seizing on the obvious contradictions in Republican policy instead of considering the contradictions inherent in the notionally liberal party unironically proposing limiting citizens' rights with a secret list. Given the number of people who have staked out the position that the Republicans are always wrong and morally bankrupt, I can see why they would want to avoid that dissonance.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:45
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Not dead, stalled. It virtually assures it (and the SCOTUS vacancy) become an election issue. Yeah, but the original program expired didn't it? And the extension of that program was one of the things blocked by this lawsuit, wasn't it? That would mean that those previously covered by DACA are no longer covered either, if I remember correctly.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:46
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I've got to be at Baltimore City Hall all day today
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Jun 23, 2016 15:47
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https://twitter.com/jbendery/status/745991538459582464 Another 24 hours to go! ComradeCosmobot posted:Yeah, but the original program expired didn't it? And the extension of that program was one of the things blocked by this lawsuit, wasn't it? That would mean that those previously covered by DACA are no longer covered either, if I remember correctly. https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog/status/745991602829660161
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Jun 23, 2016 15:47
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https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/745990857887723520
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Jun 23, 2016 15:48
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:I've got to be at Baltimore City Hall all day today Live post the eventual unrest and protests. Thank.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:49
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FYI when we're talking about affirmative action in this case we're talking about the University of Texas system where they guarantee admission to the top 10% of all Texas high schools. It just so happens that some of these Texas high schools are majority non-white, guaranteeing non-white admissions. It's pretty race-neutral. Essentially, if Texas wants less affirmative action in the U of Texas system, all they have to do is better integrate their schools. 
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Jun 23, 2016 15:49
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Arrgytehpirate posted:It's not racism though? You don't meet with college applicants so all you know is what matters. GPA, extracurricular, essay if thy have one. I don't see how that benefits white people in an anonymous setting. In the off chance that you're asking in good faith: 1. Even your name is enough to set off peoples' built-in assumptions about who you are as a person. 2. Evaluating someone purely in terms of the their GPA, extracurriculars and essays does not acknowledge that systemic factors that could lead to someone being able to achieve higher scores as a function of the birth lottery, as in being born into a stable family life in a safe neighborhood with ample financial support for your studies and personal development. Affirmative action seeks to achieve equality of result over equality of treatment.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:50
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Looks like another mass shooting, this time in Germany. I can't wait for the hot takes about Europe
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Jun 23, 2016 15:50
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Combed Thunderclap posted:FYI when we're talking about affirmative action in this case we're talking about the University of Texas system where they guarantee admission to the top 10% of all Texas high schools. It just so happens that some of these Texas high schools are majority non-white, guaranteeing non-white admissions. It's pretty race-neutral. No, Top Ten was the remedy to UT having AA blocked. https://twitter.com/eramshaw/status/745988283818090496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw I'd be interested to see if the state legislature kills off top ten, Republicans loving hate it but Democrats have fought to protect it because they see it as one of the few pro-diversity measures remaining. zoux fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 15:51
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If there were a riot in Baltimore today, in my opinion, they'd be right.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:52
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MrChupon posted:Looks like another mass shooting, this time in Germany. I can't wait for the hot takes about Europe https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/23/armed-man-opens-fire-at-german-cinema-kinopolis-viernheim It's in a town called Viernheim in southwestern Germany, near Frankfurt. Reportedly a gunman opened fire at a cinema complex.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:53
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mlmp08 posted:Good thing we have an oracle in here. 
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Jun 23, 2016 15:53
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MrChupon posted:Looks like another mass shooting, this time in Germany. I can't wait for the hot takes about Europe If gun control can't prevent another Aurora why even bother? --The NRA, almost certainly.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:54
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gradenko_2000 posted:In the off chance that you're asking in good faith: Thanks. So if they have to take x% of POC wouldn't those end up generally being the ones in majority white districts anyways? Those schools would have better programs and teachers and the like meaning probably mediocre performances would be better than good ones in poor districts. Doesn't this mean it's a class/poor person disadvantage rather than a race thing?
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Jun 23, 2016 15:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:In the off chance that you're asking in good faith:
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Jun 23, 2016 15:56
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From Wiki so grain of salt and all, but: Gun legislation in Germany is considered among the strictest gun control in the world.[1][2]
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Jun 23, 2016 15:56
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https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/745993431537815556
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Jun 23, 2016 15:56
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there are reports that the injuries are from a teargas-like irritant and that the gun being used isn't lethal. I hope this remains the case.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:56
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Doesn't this mean it's a class/poor person disadvantage rather than a race thing? I see you want us to solve the central conflict within the Democratic party ideology today.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:57
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gradenko_2000 posted:2. Evaluating someone purely in terms of the their GPA, extracurriculars and essays does not acknowledge that systemic factors that could lead to someone being able to achieve higher scores as a function of the birth lottery, as in being born into a stable family life in a safe neighborhood with ample financial support for your studies and personal development. Affirmative action seeks to achieve equality of result over equality of treatment.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:58
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zoux posted:I see you want us to solve the central conflict within the Democratic party ideology today. Basically
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Jun 23, 2016 15:59
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Not at all surprised. Prosecutor seemed in over her head with a weak case she didn't handle very well. Should be a fun day in Baltimore.
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Jun 23, 2016 15:59
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I'm glad that this conversation is moving away from the unending debate on gun control to the much more reasonable debate on affirmative action
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Jun 23, 2016 15:59
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm in favor of schools seeking diversity in admissions, but what you are describing is an economic/social issue, not a racial/ethnic one. Even given that some minorities are more likely to come from poor economic circumstances, why not just target those in poor circumstances directly instead of using race for a shorthand? Because those factors overwhelmingly effect minority communities and if you only address "poor" people and not "poor people of color" you tend to help white people more than you do anyone else because they have a much higher ceiling.
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Jun 23, 2016 16:00
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EwokEntourage posted:I'm glad that this conversation is moving away from the unending debate on gun control to the much more reasonable debate on affirmative action lol
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Jun 23, 2016 16:01
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zoux posted:No, Top Ten was the remedy to UT having AA blocked. Sorry, didn't realize race was considered on top of Top Ten.
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Jun 23, 2016 16:01
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Combed Thunderclap posted:Sorry, didn't realize race was considered on top of Top Ten. I believe race is only used to fill out the class after Top Ten because Top Ten isn't good enough to diversify the class. Top Ten still holds though regardless (Actually it's something like Top 7.5% or something)
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Jun 23, 2016 16:05
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Doesn't this mean it's a class/poor person disadvantage rather than a race thing? It's both, and both should be addressed.
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Jun 23, 2016 16:05
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Slate Action posted:Literally the best thing to happen to this country this decade. the gay marriage ruling happened while he was still alive and to me it's way more satisfying to know he hated that he couldn't stop it
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Jun 23, 2016 16:06
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Thanks. So if they have to take x% of POC wouldn't those end up generally being the ones in majority white districts anyways? Those schools would have better programs and teachers and the like meaning probably mediocre performances would be better than good ones in poor districts. While you are correct that there are white people who may be as systemically disadvantaged as the minorities that affirmative action would otherwise "catch in its net", it is beyond the scope and capability of current political discourse (indeed if it ever had been, at any point in time in recorded history) to shift to a model that is only ever focused on systemic problems caused purely by socioeconomic status, regardless of ethnicity. In short, it's not being looked at that way because it wouldn't be a trade for one over the other, but rather just an abolition of the current model with no replacement. And that's besides the point that people are still, as we speak and in real-time, being discriminated against because of their ethnicity, so there is an argument to not get rid of a program that attempts to address an on-going and extant problem in the first place.
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Jun 23, 2016 16:06
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http://www.stripes.com/news/gun-control-group-enlists-petraeus-and-other-vets-to-help-curb-violence-1.414754quote:A group of former senior military officials and veterans, including Gens. David Petraeus and Stanley McChrystal, have launched a veteran-focused gun law initiative. this could make the gun control discussion a bit more interesting, not many groups can truly challenge the NRA. Having Petraeus and Kelly on there is pretty legit, even given Petraeus' issues.
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Jun 23, 2016 16:06
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mandatory lesbian posted:the gay marriage ruling happened while he was still alive and to me it's way more satisfying to know he hated that he couldn't stop it even more satisfying was he basically wrote the playbook for it to happen in an earlier dissent
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Jun 23, 2016 16:06
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CommieGIR posted:Won't someone think of the whites?! That's what affirmative action is the result of, someone thought of the whites and how we've been real assholes in hamstringing the ability of minority groups to achieve the same socioeconomic gains whites have since like forever, and AA is the equivalent of "yeah, we know your hill was twice as steep so the fact that you're here is the result of a lot more effort than Braeden Schultz here from the Exurb Parochial Institute of Alabaster Prominence put forth."
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Jun 23, 2016 16:07
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