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They were clearly referring to Gordon being a ginger.
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Jun 28, 2016 13:51
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It's not separate but equal when Spider-Man's on the Avengers, or Captain America is on the Avengers, is an actual good guy, and has the shield. That's as clear as possible Marvel pushing their minority legacy characters to be more important/more visible then their white male counterparts. And if your argument is that "well the white guy is still around as the character so it's inherently unequal" then you're arguing that legacy characters can't exist in Marvel, basically. This isn't a DC situation where they've taken good legacy superheroes and replaced them with their boring or outright bad white male predecessors because Geoff Johns has a giant boner for his youth. Peter Parker and Steve Rogers are two excellent characters (and in the latter's case, probably a better character on the whole than Sam Wilson even if Sam makes for a more interesting Cap). We are not worse off because they are still putting on the suit and have books about them, but at the same time Miles and Sam are the focal point supers that are being pushed more aggressively by Marvel to be the representative superheroes. Considering how legendarily popular FosThor has been, when and if Odinson Thor gets brought back I'll doubt they'll change their approach. If anything, Odinson getting his powers back allows for a way to bring back Journey into Mystery and start publishing more comics under the title. Plus yeah in this case having two Thors allows for a teamup book. Especially since Dazzler Thor showed up in A-Force, they could start sowing the seeds for a continuation off that awesome as hell SW mini.
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Jun 28, 2016 15:04
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Toxxupation posted:And if your argument is that "well the white guy is still around as the character so it's inherently unequal" then you're arguing that legacy characters can't exist in Marvel, basically. They could if the Big Two weren't overly reliant on a particular stable of characters, forever ensuring the status quo. I'm not saying the entire comics industry should move in real time and truly commit to permanent change, but that leads into my next point: Toxxupation posted:Peter Parker and Steve Rogers are two excellent characters (and in the latter's case, probably a better character on the whole than Sam Wilson even if Sam makes for a more interesting Cap). We are not worse off because they are still putting on the suit and have books about them I agree! So why not introduce new minority characters on their level(or raise existing ones up) instead of bothering with a bullshit legacy everyone knows isn't going to really last? Because that takes more effort than temporarily making already hyper popular icons minorities for the publicity. It's like corporate ally behavior at it's fakest. These heroes are never going to come close to the widespread appeal and popularity of their white male counterparts, much less in marketing, movies, and merchandising. They are sad token piecemeals. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 15:19
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Looking at the other two major recent heroes taking on a straight white dude's hero name, Laura Kinney and Amadeus Cho are never going to last as Wolverine and Hulk. In particular, All New Wolverine is held up as one of the best X-books/Marvel books overall, and Old Man Logan has a superhero name that fits him just as well as Wolverine did and so the title should be all set for Laura to pick up. And yet I still don't think ANW has caused anyone to look at Laura as "the new Wolverine" versus just "X-23 wearing an old Wolverine costume". As for Amadeus, I don't really hear people say much about Amadeus as Hulk other than "I hope Bruce Banner comes back soon". I think Jane as Thor is the only place in ANAD where Marvel has really managed to sell people on someone taking over for a straight-white-dude.
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Jun 28, 2016 15:42
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DrProsek posted:And yet I still don't think ANW has caused anyone to look at Laura as "the new Wolverine" versus just "X-23 wearing an old Wolverine costume". Exactly my point, thank you.
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Jun 28, 2016 15:44
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U-Thor's powers worked differently, didn't they? A hammer swap might let Jane keep a-thunderin' without dying of the cancer.
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Jun 28, 2016 15:44
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WickedHate posted:They could if the Big Two weren't overly reliant on a particular stable of characters, forever ensuring the status quo. I'm not saying the entire comics industry should move in real time and truly commit to permanent change, but that leads into my next point: Cool. Now tell me the Marvel character with wide appeal that was created after the 60's not named Wolverine or Punisher. Nova? Ghost Rider? Marvel is more than willing to play diversity with their big franchise characters. As long as the books sell they're not going to revert to the status quo anytime soon. I know it's popular in Latveria, but doomsaying legacy super heroes is just lame. This isn't DC comics.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:11
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Doomsaying would be predicting they wouldn't last, but I gave Sam Wilson a chance and had hope he might actually take Cap's place permanently given his position in the MCU. They have undergone doom, past tense. Doom has happened. They aren't literally even legacy characters if the guy their the legacy of is right there.Die Laughing posted:Cool. Now tell me the Marvel character with wide appeal that was created after the 60's not named Wolverine or Punisher. Nova? Ghost Rider? They put in the legwork for Captain Marvel because they needed a Wonder Woman for their token girl movie. Putting more non-white guys front and center-truly front and center, not just starring in the latest fly by night incarnation of the barely read by the general public anyway comic-could be done if they really wanted to. Toxxupation posted:Because nobody gives a loving poo poo about Power Man, Blue Marvel or Spectrum, despite the latter two being two of the strongest characters in the universe. You know just as well as I do that introducing some brand new hero with a brand new title and then suddenly going "they're just as strong and as important as captain America" is an idea that flatly will not work. Their race is completely unimportant, the fact that marvel decides to randomly push some brand new character as some phenomenal cosmic power is an idea that will explode in the hanger. I have somewhat serious doubts this Mosaic thing is gonna work and they're pushing that idea real loving hard. See above. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 16:16
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WickedHate posted:I agree! So why not introduce new minority characters on their level(or raise existing ones up) instead of bothering with a bullshit legacy everyone knows isn't going to really last? Because nobody gives a loving poo poo about Power Man, Blue Marvel or Spectrum, despite the latter two being two of the strongest characters in the universe. You know just as well as I do that introducing some brand new hero with a brand new title and then suddenly going "they're just as strong and as important as captain America" is an idea that flatly will not work. Their race is completely unimportant, the fact that marvel decides to randomly push some brand new character as some phenomenal cosmic power is an idea that will explode in the hanger. I have somewhat serious doubts this Mosaic thing is gonna work and they're pushing that idea real loving hard. People give a poo poo about spider-man and captain America and Thor and even ms marvel in a way that they just don't about blue marvel or spectrum or prodigy or power man or white tiger or Karolina Dean or Hazmat. And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. The way Marvel is attempting to push up jane foster and miles morales and Sam Wilson, by allowing them to be three of the main superheroes that everybody knows and cares about, is the exact way to make a more inclusive and progressive atmosphere in comics.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:18
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WickedHate posted:Putting more non-white guys front and center-truly front and center, not just starring in the latest fly by night incarnation of the barely read by the general public anyway comic-could be done if they really wanted to. Let's look at the racial makeup of the current avengers roster. White dude, robot, white woman, Muslim middle eastern teen girl, half-Hispanic teen boy, black/Hispanic teen boy, black dude How the gently caress is that not putting non-white guys front and center.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:24
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Toxxupation posted:Let's look at the racial makeup of the current avengers roster. Because it's a minuscule percentage of the impact Marvel leaves on popular culture. Who's in all the movies and on all the back packs and lunch boxes? Marvel could afford to print the Avengers book as a series of blank pages every month if they wanted.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:29
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The MCU isn't the 616 and representation outside of the comics universe is an immaterial point. Marvel Comics has little to nothing to do with Marvel Studios, and even less to do with whoever at Disney does merchandizing for Marvel characters. If you want to rage against Marvel's representation of non-white male superheroes in non-comics media, do it somewhere other than here, where we're ostensibly talking about comics and their representation in comics. You are bringing up and arguing a point that has absolutely nothing to do with the state of Marvel Comics creative, which this thread is specifically about.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:33
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If you can't wait until tomorrow and want to know what is really up with Steve Rogers then click here. Spoiler: It's exactly what I said it was.
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Jun 28, 2016 20:47
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X-O posted:If you can't wait until tomorrow and want to know what is really up with Steve Rogers then click here. Spoiler: It's exactly what I said it was. I am incredibly shocked at this revelation. This is my shocked face. 
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Jun 28, 2016 20:55
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X-O posted:If you can't wait until tomorrow and want to know what is really up with Steve Rogers then click here. Spoiler: It's exactly what I said it was. So basically, Skull mocks Baron Zemo for trying to use a cosmic cube to brainwash people, calling it an unfulfilling victory, then turns around and does the exact same thing himself.
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Jun 28, 2016 21:00
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Red Skull is not known for his integrity. I hope Kamala continues to eclipse Carol as Ms. Marvel to the point that the fact that there used to be another Ms. Marvel becomes trivia only big nerds know, like knowing about all the different Flashes.
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Jun 28, 2016 21:05
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Toxxupation posted:Let's look at the racial makeup of the current avengers roster. To say nothing of Ultimates, which is black dude, black dude, black woman, white woman, gay Latina woman.
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Jun 28, 2016 21:17
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Is this Red Skull the old one or the current one? Aren't we supposed to forget there's a difference?
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Jun 28, 2016 21:24
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Little Mac posted:Is this Red Skull the old one or the current one? Aren't we supposed to forget there's a difference? It's the one who Stole Xavier's Brain™!!!!
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Jun 28, 2016 21:38
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Another odd pairing in the Marvel teasers. Foolkiller and Wasp.
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Jun 28, 2016 21:49
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If anything we should complain most Villians are white males! Like real life. 
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Jun 28, 2016 22:13
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Squizzle posted:U-Thor's powers worked differently, didn't they? A hammer swap might let Jane keep a-thunderin' without dying of the cancer. Pretty sure they worked the same, although that could be a nifty workaround. Checking on Wikipedia though, Ult Thor's hammer didn't seem to have a restriction on who could wield it. If you really want to split hairs though, that's not really Ultimate Thor's hammer, it's Battleworld's Ultimate Thor's hammer, which does provide that someone be worthy.
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Jun 28, 2016 22:31
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Little Mac posted:Is this Red Skull the old one or the current one? Aren't we supposed to forget there's a difference? It's explicitly a relatively fresh clone/copy that Arnim Zola made in 1942, as per the arc where he stole Xavier's brain.
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Jun 28, 2016 22:32
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TwoPair posted:Pretty sure they worked the same, although that could be a nifty workaround. Checking on Wikipedia though, Ult Thor's hammer didn't seem to have a restriction on who could wield it. If you really want to split hairs though, that's not really Ultimate Thor's hammer, it's Battleworld's Ultimate Thor's hammer, which does provide that someone be worthy. This is actually a point worth making, Ultimate Thor's hammer was wildly inconsistent, and at the end of the Ultimate universe he had lost his powers and had them replaced by Stark tech. I am sure whoever is writing the thing with the Ultimate Thor hammer totally remembers all of that and cares about it a lot. Actually can someone refresh my memory, where have we seen the Ultimate hammer since Secret Wars? I can't even remember where they dropped that plot nugget.
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Jun 28, 2016 22:43
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Gilok posted:This is actually a point worth making, Ultimate Thor's hammer was wildly inconsistent, and at the end of the Ultimate universe he had lost his powers and had them replaced by Stark tech. I am sure whoever is writing the thing with the Ultimate Thor hammer totally remembers all of that and cares about it a lot. End of thors it shows escaping and landing somewhere. Last time we saw odinson he was right next to it.
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Jun 28, 2016 22:48
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Holy poo poo. Captain America and the Falcon (04) is not good. Priest is writing and I'm blown away by this being written by the same man that did Black Panther. Plus Bart Sears is a very bad artist that draws grotesque monster men.
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Jun 29, 2016 01:12
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Mr Hootington posted:Holy poo poo. Captain America and the Falcon (04) is not good. Priest is writing and I'm blown away by this being written by the same man that did Black Panther. Plus Bart Sears is a very bad artist that draws grotesque monster men. Priest used to have a website (maybe still does) where he talks about the runs on books he has and explains all the problems he had on that run. Mostly with Sears. EDIT: Here it is: http://digitalpriest.com/legacy/comics/caf.html quote:Problem was, I was still thinking twelve issues. I was thinking that the readers and the company would both have enough patience with us and enough confidence in me as a writer to enjoy the ride and not demand instant gratification. I really believe readers are far less patient now than ever, and that fans love to play Cancellation Roulette and, so, tend to avoid perfectly healthy comic books the fan press have labeled as failures. X-O fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 01:23
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X-O posted:If you can't wait until tomorrow and want to know what is really up with Steve Rogers then click here. Spoiler: It's exactly what I said it was. Yep. So all those people going "MARVEL HATES JEWS!!!!" because of it better eat a big loving plate of crow. I know it happens a lot, but the hyperbolic reactions to that one god drat panel that 90% of people saw on tumblr and facebook was way, way over board. I bought Uncanny Avengers last week because i though it was All New for some reason, and I actually enjoyed it. I think having Cable around adds something to the team. Also Deadpool all about Half Life 3.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:07
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twistedmentat posted:Yep. So all those people going "MARVEL HATES JEWS!!!!" because of it better eat a big loving plate of crow. I know it happens a lot, but the hyperbolic reactions to that one god drat panel that 90% of people saw on tumblr and facebook was way, way over board. Nope, instead the reaction is smugly saying Marvel "backtracked" from the reveal because of negative attention. You know, because in the last 25 days or so they completely rewrote, redrew, and published a plot change like that.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:27
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JoshTheStampede posted:Nope, instead the reaction is smugly saying Marvel "backtracked" from the reveal because of negative attention. Also people like Mark Waid reading the issue a couple of days after one came out and said that the plot made sense.
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Jun 29, 2016 03:04
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The only thing that kind of bums me out is that they're explaining it straight away instead of it being a longer term thing. I get the idea that we'll know and nobody else in universe will and that's where the story is they're telling, but I was hoping for stringing it out a bit longer. I mean I guess it doesn't matter since most people that stopped to think for a second and paid attention to story clues knew exactly what, how, and when it happened.
X-O fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 03:12
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Okay so I've recently started reading Mockingbird and I really, really like it, but apparently it didn't get an issue released in June? Is it doing okay? Also if anyone wants to recommend me a good ongoing that I might not have thought about, load her up. I'm still getting to grips with the new status quo. I'm currently digging Ultimates, Invincible Iron Man and Thor, but I'm not feeling ANAD Avengers. Silk looks good though.
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Jun 29, 2016 03:40
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Nilbop posted:Okay so I've recently started reading Mockingbird and I really, really like it, but apparently it didn't get an issue released in June? Is it doing okay? It's tomorrow.
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Jun 29, 2016 03:46
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And it's AWESOME.
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Jun 29, 2016 03:49
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Mockingbird was only ever intended to be 6 issues anyways. And yes, I love it, and how Hunter has to be rescued by Bobbi in every issue. You could also make a pretty good superteam made up of jest Hawkeye's ex's.
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Jun 29, 2016 03:56
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Nilbop posted:
What are you currently reading/are aware of? Also ANAD Avengers is straight Avengers-rear end Avengersing. If all you want is a teamup book with quips and punching in a mostly issue-by-issue format with light overall arcing, ANAD Avengers delivers that in spades. It's never really tried to be anything more than that though.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:07
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Toxxupation posted:What are you currently reading/are aware of? Pretty much the 3 Avengers books, Thor, Iron Man, A-Force and now Mockingbird. Oh and I picked up Totally Awesome Hulk and New X-Men but I haven't got round to reading them yet. I've probably got room for one more.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:14
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ANAD Avengers is really good, the best thing Waid has written in years.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:16
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I don't know if it's at, say, Daredevil level yet but that's not a slight against ANAD.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:23
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Rhyno posted:ANAD Avengers is really good, the best thing Waid has written in years. Better than Daredevil?
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