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E: CanPol 2016:I too, hope for the eventuality of violent action against those who mostly annoy me. Lol gently caress it. Playstation 4 fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 10:07
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Running away from electoral reform!!
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Jun 29, 2016 12:13
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PT6A posted:Why should vaping be illegal? It basically ensures that these people will never get laid and reproduce, ergo it's a benefit for humanity. That longer-term goal is outweighed by my short-term desire not to have a massive, mildly nauseating cloud that expands to fill the entire width of the sidewalk blorted out in front of me repeatedly by people who insist it doesn't smell (see also  ).And then there was the person who kept vaping in the airport departure lounge, oblivious to those around her, while occasionally extolling the virtues of Donald J. Trump.
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Jun 29, 2016 12:54
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I really wasn't expecting the first coherent Hal posts to be about PT6A.
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Jun 29, 2016 13:03
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PT6A posted:Did you ever consider that maybe drunk people in bars are the very best way to judge to cultural temperature of a country? If they bitch about the lack of live music or something, it bodes well; if they bitch about the fact you aren't playing recorded songs from several decades ago, it's bad. Lmao. You think that this makes you look like some kind of sophisticate but everyone knows you're just Alberta trash with a little bit of money. P.S. Most live music sucks.
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Jun 29, 2016 13:21
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Jordan7hm posted:I really wasn't expecting the first coherent Hal posts to be about PT6A. That's the real breakthrough in this thread.
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Jun 29, 2016 13:47
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Dreylad posted:That's the real breakthrough in this thread. I think Hal is secretly a CI alt account
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Jun 29, 2016 14:05
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infernal machines posted:How's it going out in Alberta? Hahaha quote:PermaCorp message leads to backlash, company response The wonders of social media. That "apology" is incredibly mealy-mouthed and milquetoast, but what can you expect from a company whose management posts poo poo like this in the workplace? e: wait a minute, these are the guys who make PermaRail. I've heard of these guys.  I am not at all surprised that these guys are in construction and renovation; this kind of weird corporate fiefdom attitude seems crazy common in this industry's business owners
Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 14:12
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Documentary footage of PT6A found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=178xvHzPYgY
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Jun 29, 2016 14:32
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infernal machines posted:How's it going out in Alberta? poo poo like this is why unions exist.
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Jun 29, 2016 14:36
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DariusLikewise posted:poo poo like this is why unions exist. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, this is Alberta were talking about here. I imagine more than a couple self-made Albertans were nodding to themselves while reading that notice. Fake edit: That sign would have raised cheers in some workplaces in BC. 
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Jun 29, 2016 14:49
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Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 9, 2022 |
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Jun 29, 2016 15:32
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Angry Diplomat posted:Hahaha Corruption is pretty bad in the construction industry in the Prairies. Think mob family / biker gang controlled. Saskatoon's home builders are pretty much all controlled by one home building company rather than individual contractors. If you want to work, you work for them. They also use the money they get from building the houses to fund construction of other homes, barely keeping afloat if they don't sell enough houses. The industry is based on building cheap houses quick and then nailing the home owner again for renovations to finish the basement that should've been included in the $400K house.
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Jun 29, 2016 15:34
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Angry Diplomat posted:Hahaha I wonder what their safety record is like. It's just amusing to see someone decide that maybe the grunts just aren't getting the implicit threat, and actually write it out for them on a whiteboard, with handy printouts of their supporting sources.
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Jun 29, 2016 15:43
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Their employees should call their bluff and quit en masse. Let's see just how easy it to replace a whole bunch of workers after all.
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Jun 29, 2016 15:44
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PT6A posted:Their employees should call their bluff and quit en masse. Let's see just how easy it to replace a whole bunch of workers after all. Yes, they should. Although that sounds a lot like a wildcat strike, comrade.
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Jun 29, 2016 15:50
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I don't have a problem with unions or strikes. Anyone who's against them completely is essentially arguing that a) some kinds of contracts are invalid by their very nature just because they have an effect that some people don't like and b) people can essentially be coerced to do labour, both of which are hideous things to argue because they would, in effect, invalidate some of the most important personal freedoms. Being against unions or the ability to strike is completely anti-libertarian, in actual fact, so it should be a point of common ground between the economic left and the economic right, only opposed by authoritarians and those who seek solely to enrich big business.
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Jun 29, 2016 16:20
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Ontario Ombudsman: The police are killing the mentally ill because that's what they're being trained to do. We'd like that to stop.The Star posted:“The issue of how police are trained to handle situations of conflict with people in crisis is not a matter of academic debate. It is literally a matter of life and death, and one that has been neglected in this province for too long,” Hey, this looks familiar, doesn't it? https://twitter.com/wendygillis/status/748180570354622464
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Jun 29, 2016 16:48
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infernal machines posted:Ontario Ombudsman: The police are killing the mentally ill because that's what they're being trained to do. We'd like that to stop. I asked a criminologist about this stuff awhile back. She said that situations often escalate sharply because of training and culture that expects officers to protect their partner. Law enforcement can spiral into excessive force pretty quickly in the heat of the moment, but it's often not a "gently caress this crazy rear end in a top hat," or "oh poo poo he's going to eat my face." It's a less malevolent but much more thorny, "my partner is threatened." A lot of the time it's just "gently caress this crazy rear end in a top hat," though. Pixelante fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 16:56
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It's about loving time the police dropped this bullshit. It's blatantly obvious that this entire model boils down to 'escalate the situation until you think you can justify killing them'. It's deplorable.
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Jun 29, 2016 16:56
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We're not so awesome at non-police situation management of disability either.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:10
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EvilJoven posted:It's about loving time the police dropped this bullshit. It's blatantly obvious that this entire model boils down to 'escalate the situation until you think you can justify killing them'. I disagree that's the intent, certainly that appears to be the result though. I think it's more likely that they view drawing their weapon and shouting commands to be a valid deescalation technique, and when that doesn't work the next step is to use force.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:11
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Yeah the very basic motivation behind much of the current training model is, itself, relatively well-intentioned; "you must protect yourself and/or your partner from harm" is a perfectly reasonable first priority in decision-making, not least because trying to train officers to override their self-preservation instincts during crises would essentially require training them more like soldiers than peace officers. The problem doesn't lie with officers being able, willing, or trained to defend themselves and civilians - that's a logical necessity of policing. The problem lies with a police culture that prioritizes authority and control, views common social issues through a cultural lens so outdated that it verges on superstition, and is rarely subjected to anywhere near the level of accountability and unbiased supervision that it needs. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 17:13
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Hey, having a weapon on me would certainly make me inclined to do what someone said to do, regardless of whether it's a police officer, armed robber, or mugger. EDIT: I'm not necessarily saying it's the best way, but it does work a treat in 95% of circumstances when you aren't dealing with a lunatic.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:14
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PT6A posted:Hey, having a weapon on me would certainly make me inclined to do what someone said to do, regardless of whether it's a police officer, armed robber, or mugger. See, you'd think that, but in reality it turns out that pulling a gun on people and yelling at them makes them panic, and panicking people are unpredictable as gently caress. Escalation is really, really, really bad policing. Armed robbers and muggers just want your poo poo. If they shoot you, well, they still get your poo poo. Cops are literally paid, appointed, and sworn to protect you. If they shoot you, there is a very high likelihood that they have cataclysmically hosed up, because the thing they did was the exact opposite of the thing they are supposed to be doing.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:21
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PT6A posted:Hey, having a weapon on me would certainly make me inclined to do what someone said to do, regardless of whether it's a police officer, armed robber, or mugger. That's cool and all but get this, it's not a deescalation technique. Again: Pointing a weapon at someone and shouting is not deescalating the situation. I'm not sure why this needs to be repeated so often. Resolving a situation through intimidation and threat of force is not deescalation. It is basically the opposite of that. The fact that officers are being trained to use the two interchangeably is specifically why people are getting shot and what the report recommends stop immediately, because it is provably resulting in people being killed rather than resolving the situation peacefully.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:21
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Angry Diplomat posted:Yeah the very basic motivation behind much of the current training model is, itself, relatively well-intentioned; "you must protect yourself and/or your partner from harm" is a perfectly reasonable first priority in decision-making, not least because trying to train officers to override their self-preservation instincts during crises would essentially require training them more like soldiers than peace officers. If they're being armed like soldiers they can follow the same ROE as soldiers.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:24
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SIT DOWN STAND UP DONT MOVE PUT YOUR HANDS UP DONT MOVE LAY DOWN I SAID DONT MOVE HANDS UP LAY DOWN DONT MOVE *BANG*
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Jun 29, 2016 17:27
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infernal machines posted:If they're being armed like soldiers they can follow the same ROE as soldiers. Rank-and-file cops should definitely not ever be armed like soldiers outside of truly extraordinary temporary emergency measures, so yeah, sure, they can play soldier if we get invaded. In the meantime, they should probably behave like officers of the peace.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:29
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Angry Diplomat posted:Rank-and-file cops should definitely not ever be armed like soldiers outside of truly extraordinary temporary emergency measures, so yeah, sure, they can play soldier if we get invaded. They have side arms and are now being issued C8 carbines. Note, this is not the ETF I'm talking about, these are front line officers. See: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-rifles-1.3409707
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Jun 29, 2016 17:33
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Good grief.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:35
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You have to up gun to face the latest threats that come with a lack of carding now.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:36
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infernal machines posted:They have side arms and are now being issued C8 carbines. That seems like a strange thing to only be happening now. I know that Calgary police have had C8s for quite some time. I assumed that Toronto, being the "big city," would have up-gunned a long time ago, on like a US militarization timetable. quote:Peel Regional Police told CBC News, so far officers have fired the weapons "to humanely dispatch a badly injured animal that could otherwise not be saved." Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 17:38
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PT6A posted:Hey, having a weapon on me would certainly make me inclined to do what someone said to do, regardless of whether it's a police officer, armed robber, or mugger.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:40
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infernal machines posted:They have side arms and are now being issued C8 carbines. I don't see what the problem here is, these guns are for de-escalation: quote:John Weiler, an instructor at the Ontario Police College in Aylmer, Ont., says the weapons are a safer alternative in situations with active shooters or barricaded subjects. Unfortunately Weiler didn't specify what that strategy would be but I imagine that getting shot several times with a C8 rifle would take the fight out of you pretty quick so I suppose you could argue being shot is a form of extreme de-escalation.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:42
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EvilJoven posted:SIT DOWN STAND UP DONT MOVE PUT YOUR HANDS UP DONT MOVE LAY DOWN I SAID DONT MOVE HANDS UP LAY DOWN DONT MOVE *BANG* I've seen a lot of videos where situations escalate out of hand for seemingly no reason and this is about 90% of it. I guess they are trained to YELL and speak with AUTHORITY but that should be something you escalate to, yell in a booming voice to snap someone out of something or get them to pay attention to you. Too many times someone who isn't hostile and is trying to cooperate, but is scared to death from all the lights and screaming and drawn guns doesn't react fast enough or do exactly what the police want, and next thing you know they're getting a boot to the back of their legs because they didn't kneel down fast enough, or a boot to the face because they didn't get up off the ground fast enough. I mean when I go to physio, which should be a relaxing calm place, I still gently caress up half the time she says "ok now lay on your left side" or "ok now flip over on your back". That's something everyone does, even in calm situations. When you're scared to death, possibly drunk or on drugs, maybe mentally ill, maybe ask them calmly? Police are great at escalating and projecting power and intimidating, but they really need some training on just talking to people like a human and calming them down, things would go smoother for everyone. But half the time it seems the police WANT to escalate, so they can work out some of their rage or frustrations on someone.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:44
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Helsing posted:I don't see what the problem here is, these guns are for de-escalation: This should be a huge flashing warning sign complete with a comically huge klaxon going off. This is why you don't give the loving police carbines god drat it
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Jun 29, 2016 17:52
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Reminder that the Winnipeg Police bought these two loving things due to the constant threat of terrorism and there was actual public support for both. 
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Jun 29, 2016 17:54
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Baronjutter posted:I've seen a lot of videos where situations escalate out of hand for seemingly no reason and this is about 90% of it. I guess they are trained to YELL and speak with AUTHORITY but that should be something you escalate to, yell in a booming voice to snap someone out of something or get them to pay attention to you. Too many times someone who isn't hostile and is trying to cooperate, but is scared to death from all the lights and screaming and drawn guns doesn't react fast enough or do exactly what the police want, and next thing you know they're getting a boot to the back of their legs because they didn't kneel down fast enough, or a boot to the face because they didn't get up off the ground fast enough. The bolded part of this is very important to moving forward in fixing things. Part of it is the type of people modern policing draws in (its basically military-lite only you dont have to go melt in a foreign desert to shoot people). A bigger part of it though is that our police force is unable to deal with their own mental illness and we expect them to be able to handle others acting in an equally irrational manner. How can we expect them to help other seek treatment when they cant even seek help themselves? Police culture is toxic and still very oldschool.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:56
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Jordan7hm posted:I really wasn't expecting the first coherent Hal posts to be about PT6A. I was actually shocked by this and was going to mention it as well. Good job Hal!
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Jun 29, 2016 18:25
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