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Coolguye posted:healing as a whole is kinda awkward in this game Well given that the Medic Pistol is The One True God Of T1 I think that Medic is pretty fun to play. Having a medic boosts the survivability of a team by a ton - armor healing, regular healing, aoe denial combined with healing, toxic panic etc. There are a lot of things to do as medic. The scenario you describe where he's only the healbot is a thing that happens when you camp in a spot like the trucks on Outpost. Other then that, you have to be an asset when it comes to killing or the team will get overwhelmed. You deal with trash very efficiently, and the high tier weapons allow to kill mid tier zeds with ease as well when the team is whacking on that fleshpound. But it's a tough case where sometimes one medic is not enough, but two medics spoil the broth, making the team into an unkillable monolith while really dimnishing the killing potential, which is VERY evident when you roll Hans. It's always the medics who die last and try to kite him into oblivion only to die at the last 10% of his lifebar. The Shotgun is completely poo poo tho, no reason to use it over the AR.
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Jun 30, 2016 00:29
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i don't disagree that the medic does his job pretty well, and brings some unique stuff to the table, i just feel that the dart system mostly amounts to making people do things besides shoot deadman too often, and at the end of the day shoot deadman is what we came here to do. so if you were to theoretically think this was enough of a Problem that it required remediation (which we do for the sake of our game design fanfictions, whether it actually does or not i'm undecided), you can either change healing to something more passive or spread the responsibility around so everyone is doing something besides shooting deadman roughly equally. functionally, i'd probably ensconce this by renaming medic with chemist/chem warrior/whatever, moving all his healing bonuses to poison bonuses, and either 1) just giving up and giving the 9mm a heal dart thingy, letting the current medic gun outright replace the 9mm for a hefty dosh outlay (free for the chemist) or 2) trying to make that weird healing hub idea work
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Jun 30, 2016 00:39
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It's amazing how many bad design decisions were made simply trying to avoid being similar to KF1. It's called Killing Floor 2, I bought it because I was a big fan of KF1. Honestly even the original KF1 with QOL improvements and new classes/bosses is all I really wanted. Why is that a bad thing?
dorkasaurus_rex fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 01:35
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:It's amazing how many be design decisions were made simply trying to avoid being similar to KF1. It's called Killing Floor 2, I bought it because I was a big fan of KF1. Honestly even the original KF1 with QOL improvements and new classes/bosses is all I really wanted. Why is that a bad thing? Because it doesn't fit the vision.
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Jun 30, 2016 01:41
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Alteisen posted:Sounds like they want KF to just not be KF for whatever reason. That's what they did to Red Orchestra 2 and it worked out grrrrreat.
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Jun 30, 2016 01:48
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az posted:That's what they did to Red Orchestra 2 and it worked out grrrrreat. Could you elaborate? I've heard bad things about RO2 but don't know the history
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Jun 30, 2016 01:51
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Alteisen posted:Could you elaborate? I've heard bad things about RO2 but don't know the history Take a really good, realistic milsim WW2 game, a game type that hasn't been seen for years, then make a sequel that ditches literally everything that made the original game beloved. But it looked pretty at least.
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Jun 30, 2016 01:56
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Look man you can't prove the Germans didn't use MKb 42s at Stalingrad ok?!?!?
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Jun 30, 2016 02:01
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Skoll posted:Take a really good, realistic milsim WW2 game, a game type that hasn't been seen for years, then make a sequel that ditches literally everything that made the original game beloved. So KF2 seems par for the course for tripwire then. 
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Jun 30, 2016 02:12
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John Gibson then went on to blame Call of Duty for ruining fps players forever and blamed focus testing said awful cod players for RO2 for its poor reception.
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Jun 30, 2016 02:15
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Coolguye posted:I got two PM requests to post my critique of the dev post on TWI's forums, because it's been a good day or so now and it looks like it ain't gonna show up. Here it is: The issue seems to be that Tripwire, for whatever reason, is unwilling to actually add to zeds in interesting ways, opting for lazy man's poo poo like the resistance system and nerfing the player that just makes the game a chore to play. You give a lot of interesting ideas to make the Stalker more of a threat without turning her into a tank, and if they were added to the game, it would help her stand out from being "invisible Clot that walked off shotgun blasts in earlier patches". I understand it would take more time to implement such cahnges than making the resistance system, but the reward of a more dynamic enemy that makes the game more exciting should be worth the investment. And really, Tripwire should be trying to make the zeds more dynamic and interesting than their KF1 counterparts (which they did doing a good job of at the start) instead of just swapping numbers around (or adding them, in the case of the resistances) and calling it a day. You're right on the mark with MY VISION potentially ruining the game. Tripwire needs to understand that game development is a two-way street, and by two-way street, I don't mean "legions of fanboys sucking you off on the official forums and Reddit", I mean genuine advice and criticism. Nobody gives a poo poo about your vision if it entails things like Stalkers tanking shotgun blasts because that's frustrating and obnoxious to the player. Making something for a lot of people to enjoy means you will have to compromise MY VISION for the sake of a more enjoyable product. The post by Munk seems to show that Tripwire doesn't seem to fully grasp that.
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Jun 30, 2016 02:17
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I liked RO2's pacific expansion at lot. But then my big problem with RO2 was how vertical it usually was, I could never loving find anyone.
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Jun 30, 2016 02:57
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I really don't see the problem with how the game was, even with Zerker as its OP worst I still found myself wiping a few times in the various difficulties even with a good team. Quite frankly its the sheer unpredictability of how zeds worked that made the game for me, nothing like 2 scrakes with sirens behind them or a husk setting off a scrake while the FP is bearing down on you.
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Jun 30, 2016 02:58
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Coolguye posted:i don't disagree that the medic does his job pretty well, and brings some unique stuff to the table, i just feel that the dart system mostly amounts to making people do things besides shoot deadman too often, and at the end of the day shoot deadman is what we came here to do. I must be in the minority, but when I play medic I really enjoy the meta-game of trying to keep everyone's health topped up whilst clearing trash when I get the chance. Positioning myself to keep as many players in sight at once is enjoyable to me. But then, I play on normal or hard with a bunch of friends, so my experience is not the same as most others.
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Jun 30, 2016 03:50
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Gromit posted:I must be in the minority, but when I play medic I really enjoy the meta-game of trying to keep everyone's health topped up whilst clearing trash when I get the chance. Positioning myself to keep as many players in sight at once is enjoyable to me. nah it's entirely possible i am talking directly out of my rear end in a top hat. i've actually never really heard too many people complain about medic's action, but i have substantially less fun playing medic when compared to blowing some deadman face off, and OneThousandMonkeys provided an interesting prompt so i just ran with it
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Jun 30, 2016 04:00
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I generally enjoy medic medic/support roles in games too
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Jun 30, 2016 04:08
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I would enjoy medic more if the guns got damage boosts or if I could select firing modes. That's just my personal 'tisms though, I don't mind rolling out my level 25 if the team absolutely needs it. E: I also hate the look of the medic weapons. Bring back the KF 1 ones plz.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:09
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Skoll posted:E: I also hate the look of the medic weapons. Bring back the KF 1 ones plz.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:15
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Insert name here posted:Look man you can't prove the Germans didn't use MKb 42s at Stalingrad ok?!?!? Look our rifles are blue, see? That means that's how they're supposed to look! (Jesus the RO2 forums were a dumpster fire) TheTatteredKing posted:I liked RO2's pacific expansion at lot. But then my big problem with RO2 was how vertical it usually was, I could never loving find anyone. Different team made Rising Dragon. It fixed a lot of jank and the sides actually felt largely balanced. And I got a lot of mileage out of the 1919, the Flamethrower and the Sergeant's Shotgun. God drat were they all satisfying as hell to use. Maybe this means if we get a KF2: Pacific Theater made by an outside team, we'll end up with one mega-giant game where half of it's dead and the other half is a blast though.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:29
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Medic is a good class with the highest survivability and EBR + Medic AR wrecks tons of stuff and a great medic can keep the team and himself alive without a ton of trouble if everyone else knows what they're doing. Plus the fact you have to focus on healing AND killing makes Medic a fairly intense class for me. I can only assume you guys are playing with mediocre Medics or something. (Plus if you want to just shoot things then don't play Medic, pick a different class and just get a Medic pistol or whatever.)
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Jun 30, 2016 07:20
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Abandoned Toaster posted:Medic is a good class with the highest survivability and EBR + Medic AR wrecks tons of stuff and a great medic can keep the team and himself alive without a ton of trouble if everyone else knows what they're doing. Plus the fact you have to focus on healing AND killing makes Medic a fairly intense class for me. Once you hit level 25 you no longer have to worry about killing. When I go Medic, I only pop the occasional Clot, Crawler, or Stalker that's getting too close for comfort. I heal the rest of the time.
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Jun 30, 2016 09:33
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Alteisen posted:Could you elaborate? I've heard bad things about RO2 but don't know the history RO2 had a beta that was really, really promising. It was the rare milsim that didn't feel like it sacrificed playability for the sake of realism and vice-versa. Most agreed that it felt like it just needed some extra content, and a lot of bug fixing and it'd be a hit as the first milsim that didn't feel like robotic garbage. The problem was that bug fixes didn't come and the game seemed to want to entice action-oriented shooter fans with its splitting of the game into "action" and "classic" modes. It didn't work because maps felt like they were designed for action, so they felt awful with the "realistic" mechanics. The "realistic" mechanics in turn felt bad for "action" gameplay. It wasted a lot of time and ended up turning away both the milsim dorks and the CoD customers that someone ordered they pick up. It was a mess and they just made it worse and worse with very little communication as to why these changes were happening. Didn't help that John Gibson was Pitchfording against shadows and the community management were a bunch of assholes (I remember one of them being a big racist). It felt like TW believed that they had a finished game that didn't need much more work, so had a very basic crew working for release and updates. I remember Questioner later showed up saying he was part of the clean-up crew, and for what it's worth they did what seems like the best they could with a bad situation. If anything starts to sound familiar, you'll realize that a lot of us are recognizing patterns. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 09:48
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closeted republican posted:The issue seems to be that Tripwire, for whatever reason, is unwilling to actually add to zeds in interesting ways, opting for lazy man's poo poo like the resistance system and nerfing the player that just makes the game a chore to play. You give a lot of interesting ideas to make the Stalker more of a threat without turning her into a tank, and if they were added to the game, it would help her stand out from being "invisible Clot that walked off shotgun blasts in earlier patches". I understand it would take more time to implement such cahnges than making the resistance system, but the reward of a more dynamic enemy that makes the game more exciting should be worth the investment. And really, Tripwire should be trying to make the zeds more dynamic and interesting than their KF1 counterparts (which they did doing a good job of at the start) instead of just swapping numbers around (or adding them, in the case of the resistances) and calling it a day. It's been what, 3 big updates and 4 new classes dropped and no new Zeds aside from the remade Patty? I wish that they added more variance to the stuff I shoot at, especially since it was hinted early on with stuff like a double-bladed Gorefast. And they could bring back the horror aspect of the game a bit by adding back Zed speech. Now it's all roars and groans, but back in KF1 you had them talking and taunting you, and that appealed much more to me then what we have now.
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Jun 30, 2016 10:48
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Generic roaring and groaning tested well internally so therefore it's better than creepy talking! 
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Jun 30, 2016 12:09
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Plan Z posted:RO2 had a beta that was really, really promising. It was the rare milsim that didn't feel like it sacrificed playability for the sake of realism and vice-versa. Most agreed that it felt like it just needed some extra content, and a lot of bug fixing and it'd be a hit as the first milsim that didn't feel like robotic garbage. The problem was that bug fixes didn't come and the game seemed to want to entice action-oriented shooter fans with its splitting of the game into "action" and "classic" modes. It didn't work because maps felt like they were designed for action, so they felt awful with the "realistic" mechanics. The "realistic" mechanics in turn felt bad for "action" gameplay. It wasted a lot of time and ended up turning away both the milsim dorks and the CoD customers that someone ordered they pick up. It was a mess and they just made it worse and worse with very little communication as to why these changes were happening. Now i feel like i really should've done my homework and research earlier, huh
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Jun 30, 2016 12:53
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What's weird is that they understood some things with difficulty on KF2's initial release. Higher difficulties add more damage and health to enemies, yes, but they also added more abilities and actions to enemies as you get to higher difficulties. They get more variable in their movements, add extra attacks, and generally become more complex to deal with. It was a neat little touch that made me think they understood how to add difficulty in fun ways without making them instakilling bulletsponges. Then, welp, here we are.
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Jun 30, 2016 13:29
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RO2 is now a good game. So there's hope!
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Jun 30, 2016 14:28
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:RO2 is now a good game. So there's hope! With how many people still playing?
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Jun 30, 2016 14:32
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Plan Z posted:If anything starts to sound familiar, you'll realize that a lot of us are recognizing patterns. Reminder that they also promised and immediately started cutting out said promises after release from their store page. Post-release stuff was supposed to include new maps (didn't happen from TWI for a year), new weapons (never happened), new tanks(happened 3 years after release), and APCs/infantry support vehicles (happened but they were produced by mod teams in the community). In the beta release version's store page they had all this and within the first couple months they removed all references to it. There was also supposed to be a multiplayer campaign mode (no idea if this came out) and a singleplayer campaign. What maps Tripwire released (because IIRC the SDK/Mod tool kit for designing maps took years to come out) came out one by one with 6 months between releases. Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 14:39
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^^All of that is true and really pissed a lot of people off. RO1 was set on the entire eastern front 41-44 and had a decent amount of content, especially with mods. RO2 was set just in Stalingrad, already massively cut down in scope, and had barely anything. I think the game launched with one tank model per side, both of which played very oddly compared to 1.Skoll posted:With how many people still playing? If the serverbrowser still lists bots as players like it used to I'm sure there's plenty!
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Jun 30, 2016 14:41
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Skoll posted:With how many people still playing? Legitimately a lot. You can usually find a handful of full servers for both RO2 and RS in each of the three modes. I'll concede that the 'vanilla' and 'classic' (RO2 and RO1 respectively) modes are bad but if you go for the wildly misnamed 'realism' mode you can play a very fun game. I play fairly regularly with a friend that comes over.
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Jun 30, 2016 15:00
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Played a couple of games with the new resistance patch and you can still feel it's tendrils in there, so gently caress that. Remove it entirely, put it back to how it was before this whole debacle started. On a side note, though, Demo seems a lot more fun to play now that he can carry the RPG and GL together.
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Jul 1, 2016 15:49
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Perhaps this whole thing would go over better if the resistances were in a separate "hardcore" game mode.
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Jul 1, 2016 16:06
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If they just moved the entire resistance garbage to HoE only and left everything else alone, it would be fine. Maybe completely remove that PVP mode no one wanted or plays.
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Jul 1, 2016 16:19
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So I was playing earlier cause it's Double XP and Zerker is the only perk I don't have to 25 yet... They really, really, really loving hit the money gain on long games hard. It took me until round 4/5 to be able to afford the Pulverizer.
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Jul 2, 2016 01:33
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Generic roaring and groaning tested well internally so therefore it's better than creepy talking! This is a hardcore game for hardcore twitch MLG players. If you don't like it, you're an entitled casual who just wants a headclicking simulator  But if a Fleshpound calls you a baby, it might hurt someone's feelings 
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Jul 2, 2016 01:37
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Skoll posted:They really, really, really loving hit the money gain on long games hard. It took me until round 4/5 to be able to afford the Pulverizer. Tripwire making unfun changes? Shocking!
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Jul 2, 2016 01:46
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Section Z posted:This is a hardcore game for hardcore twitch MLG players. If you don't like it, you're an entitled casual who just wants a headclicking simulator Well they did remove insult players for no reason.
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Jul 2, 2016 02:07
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Insult Players never went away. It's been in every change log since release!
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Jul 2, 2016 02:33
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Tripwire making unfun changes? Shocking! At this point, I expect Munk or Gibson to call Killing Floor 2 "The Dark Souls of zombie horde shooters". 
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Jul 2, 2016 02:42
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