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Lurdiak posted:trying to act like Iron Man 3 is a bad movie is even more ridiculous. Truther movies are bad. Iron Man 3 is entertaining enough, but it's a Truther movie.
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Jul 1, 2016 11:35
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Lurdiak posted:gently caress off. Everyone knows Batman's motivation. The last thing anyone ever needs to do is film that loving scene again. The origins of Batman and Spider-Man are part of humanity's collective unconscious. There are tribes of people in the most inhospitable regions of earth who have never interacted with the modern age who loving know the origins of Batman and Spider-Man. Those origins are our loving Rosetta Stone. The only Spidey origin story element needed is the name of the company that is responsible for the spider. The only origin story element needed for Batman is literally nothing.
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Jul 1, 2016 12:33
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Lurdiak posted:I thought I'd seen Toxx's worst posts in the kickstarter thread where he threw a tantrum about Tim Schafer, but trying to act like Iron Man 3 is a bad movie is even more ridiculous. IM3 was not the worst marvel movie by dint of IM2, and the Thor movies existing. Edit: Come to think of it, it was way better than the three Avengers movies as well, so I guess it falls squarely in the middle of Marvels movies. The fakeout with the mandarin was pretty slick imo. McCloud fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 13:19
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Truther movies are bad. What the heck are you talking about.
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Jul 1, 2016 13:53
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X-post from the BvS thread in CineDMcCloud posted:
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Jul 1, 2016 13:53
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Lurdiak posted:What the heck are you talking about. Star Trek Into Darkness is an actual Truther-inspired film though.
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Jul 1, 2016 14:01
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I guess Die Hard is a truther film.
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Jul 1, 2016 14:01
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Lurdiak posted:I guess Die Hard is a truther film. Reagan actually was robbing the country blind, though.
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Jul 1, 2016 14:06
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McCloud posted:The scene with the Wayne murder is important because it links their deaths with Batmans fight with Superman, AND with Supermans funeral. The crux of the whole Martha bit hinges on it being a recreation of the Murder of the Waynes, with Superman as Thomas Wayne. Without the setup, it becomes even more random than it already is. It also visually links to the funeral scene, hinting at Bruce's guilt over his death, and just as Batman was once born out of his grief and guilt over his parents, so he is reborn out of his guilt and grief over Superman. I liked the part where the robot/bat person and the handsome alien were dukin it out.
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Jul 1, 2016 14:38
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Lurdiak posted:I guess Die Hard is a truther film. The lack of shoes represents John removing his blinders and facing the painful truth of reality. Reality is the broken glass btw.
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Jul 1, 2016 14:40
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Lurdiak posted:What the heck are you talking about. Osama bin Laden is an actor working for a clique of Western businessmen and politicians (including the Vice President of the US!). This is just a logical continuation of Iron Man 1, where Taliban are working for a Western businessman.
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Jul 1, 2016 14:56
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rantmo posted:The origins of Batman and Spider-Man are part of humanity's collective unconscious. There are tribes of people in the most inhospitable regions of earth who have never interacted with the modern age who loving know the origins of Batman and Spider-Man. Those origins are our loving Rosetta Stone. The only Spidey origin story element needed is the name of the company that is responsible for the spider. The only origin story element needed for Batman is literally nothing. But what if it turned out that Flint Marko was the dude who really shot the Waynes?
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Jul 1, 2016 14:56
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Osama Bin Laden actually wasn't in Iron Man 3. They couldn't get a hold of his agent, as I recall.
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Jul 1, 2016 15:06
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Dan Didio posted:Osama Bin Laden actually wasn't in Iron Man 3. They couldn't get a hold of his agent, as I recall. Rumor has it he's been hanging around the set of Auquaman since 2011...
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Jul 1, 2016 15:10
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Superman's origin is pretty famous too, but that didn't stop Morrison devoting the first page (and just the first page) of rear end to it. BvS is making sure you now what's up - it's covering its bases that you know that Bruce Wayne's mom is named Martha, basically. It's literally going for the complete opposite of what Morrison was doing.
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Jul 1, 2016 15:39
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I read an article recently that went into detail about how one of the weaknesses of major blockbusters nowadays is that they are constantly skimping or even effectively removing the second act of the film. Major movies blow their load in the climax and have an hour long first act. The main focus of the article was why Independence Day 2 feels so much worse than the original. I think beyond all the terrible writing and editing decisions, this really kinda cements why BvS felt totally disjointed and mediocre to me. It had an hour and a half act 1, a 20 minute act 2 with no real stakes, and then an hour long climax. The article noted that Civil War was a major outlier for a blockbuster because it had it's central action scene at the end of act 2 and opted for a smaller finale. They also had a very short act 1. Not sure how well that analysis holds up going through every single recent blockbuster, but the difference in pacing between BvS, Civil War, and even Deadpool (although Deadpool wasn't really a blockbuster, so it probably doesn't fit) really does seem to hinge on how they handle the second act.
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Jul 1, 2016 15:41
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McCloud posted:X-post from the BvS thread in CineD
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Jul 1, 2016 15:41
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theflyingorc posted:I do not understand what is being said in terms of her "being his monument" and how those pictures establish that.
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Jul 1, 2016 15:49
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I rewatched Civil War again recently, and even after looking for shakiness I still think it's a bit overstated. The Black Widow market fight and the brief fight between Bucky and Black Panther on the roof are undoubtedly the worst of it, but while the stairwell fight does have some of that it's not nearly as prominent and never confusing even with how chaotic that scene is supposed to be.
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Jul 1, 2016 15:49
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Anna Kendrick saw a Squirrel Girl comic and thought "hey I can play her!" Are nerd news outlets so thirsty they'll post anything? We need some Infinity War casting news or something.
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Jul 1, 2016 18:45
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Whatever Marvel Studios phase comes after everything that's been announced, it should have a Kamala movie and a Sam Alexander Nova movie.
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Jul 1, 2016 19:28
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Superman's origin is pretty famous too, but that didn't stop Morrison devoting the first page (and just the first page) of rear end to it. It's funny you mention that cuz when he said Martha instead of just mom I had to pause the movie cuz I was groaning so hard. So incredibly dumb. Like no one calls their mom by their first name. So if I could change that and excise a completely useless scene at the same time that's just two birds with one stone.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:18
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site posted:It's funny you mention that cuz when he said Martha instead of just mom I had to pause the movie cuz I was groaning so hard. So incredibly dumb. Like no one calls their mom by their first name. So if I could change that and excise a completely useless scene at the same time that's just two birds with one stone. He was still in his secret identity and trying to say "they're going to kill Martha Kent"
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Jul 1, 2016 20:22
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The alternative is Superman calling out "Mommy"when getting a whoppin, which is against the studio note to make him cool.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:24
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SirDan3k posted:The alternative is Superman calling out "Mommy"when getting a whoppin, which is against the studio note to make him cool. "M-my mother... y-you have to save my mother." It doesn't carry the thematic weight but it isn't at all hard to come up with something else he could have said. The Martha scene clearly started from an idea ("their mothers share names, let's make something of that") but they didn't execute it well enough to justify why it's "Martha" and not "Martha Kent" or "My mother" depending.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:26
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The movie should have sidestepped all of this by having superman beat the crap out of Batman and rip off his dumb robot suit. They become friends after superman refuses to kill Batman and explains Luthors plans to him.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:28
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Superman's origin is pretty famous too, but that didn't stop Morrison devoting the first page (and just the first page) of rear end to it. Echoing that it's weird for you to use rear end as an example of why redoing Batman's origin was a good choice. The two are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I don't feel like that scene sets the tone of the film. Bruce wandering the wreckage of Supes vs Zod does that. It also introduces the character and his motivation WAY better. The Wayne murder explains why there is a Batman. The Bruce scene explains why he's in the movie. And since Martha ended up being a complete joke, maybe we're okay if the scene you feel set it up goes away.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:33
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Travis343 posted:The movie should have sidestepped all of this by having superman beat the crap out of Batman and rip off his dumb robot suit. They become friends after superman refuses to kill Batman and explains Luthors plans to him. It's not Superman vs. Batman.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:40
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Batman can't lose, it's not marketable
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Jul 1, 2016 20:40
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MrAristocrates posted:Batman can't lose, it's not marketable "Invincible God-man beats dude" is a pretty lousy narrative
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Jul 1, 2016 20:43
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theflyingorc posted:I do not understand what is being said in terms of her "being his monument" and how those pictures establish that. Similar to that "it's a loop that we see from Wayne funeral to Super death" because the funeral isn't the actual start of the loving movie, it's just cherrypicked scenes to make that interpretation work. theflyingorc posted:This is weird as hell to mention, because the purpose of Doomed Planet - Desperate Scientists - Last Hope - Kindly Couple is an act of RESPECT towards the audience that they know this story, and drawing you in to the fact that this version of Superman is hung on the standard frame we all know. It's entire purpose is in how dismissive we can be and how little hand-holding we need to understand the upcoming Superman story. It sets up the idiocy of Bruce running into a situation but I'm pretty sure the 2 hours leading up to the fight does that well enough. Plus rear end's minimalist 1page origin gets to the heart of why Superman works as a character: immigrant story, selfless sacrifice, love, hope, loss. All very human concepts that ground the alien aspects of the character.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:47
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"Invincible God-man heals the pain and rage of a xenophobic terrorist with the power of trust and friendship" is the narrative the movie was already attempting and completely failing to communicate though
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Jul 1, 2016 20:50
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FilthyImp posted:Murdered Waynes doesn't even set up his stupid "My parents taught me you have to batter the world for things to make sense" speech at the end. Your idiot dad rushed a mugger that had a gun pointed at. What the gently caress did he think was going to happen? I guess I should ask about this: in the comics does Thomas try to take the gun from Joe chill or not? The Nolan series made it explicit that he did not whereas bvs shows that he does. I know I know this isn't the Nolan Batman but it felt like a weird thing to change.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:57
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Travis343 posted:"Invincible God-man heals the pain and rage of a xenophobic terrorist with the power of trust and friendship" is the narrative the movie was already attempting and completely failing to communicate though Yeah, but there's a reason Batman always beats Superman when they fight - any other outcome is going to just make Clark look like a bully. Nobody wants to see Superman win that fight, not dumb audiences, and not smart audiences, either. AT BEST you can go for a Dark Knight Returns "win by losing".
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Jul 1, 2016 20:59
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theflyingorc posted:Yeah, but there's a reason Batman always beats Superman when they fight - any other outcome is going to just make Clark look like a bully. Nobody wants to see Superman win that fight, not dumb audiences, and not smart audiences, either. AT BEST you can go for a Dark Knight Returns "win by losing". Batman rarely beats up a Superman who isn't actively trying not to hurt him actually, because the opposite is true too. The only way for Batman to really 'defeat' Superman is by tricking and crippling him, leading to scenes of a an beating up a helpless foe. Even BvS is that way. It's either Batman getting wrecked or Superman unable to do anything and getting wrecked, no in-between.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:03
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Travis343 posted:"Invincible God-man heals the pain and rage of a xenophobic terrorist with the power of trust and friendship" is the narrative the movie was already attempting and completely failing to communicate though It's in death that he works, because then he's a convenient ideal that doesn't really engage with humanity. site posted:I guess I should ask about this: in the comics does Thomas try to take the gun from Joe chill or not? I think it's supposed to be a courageous act in the Snyderverse, but in practice it's loving stupid (they're being mugged 10 feet from a movie theatre entrance, on a very public street, and that struggle places the child and wife into a much more dangerous situation).
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Jul 1, 2016 21:06
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theflyingorc posted:Yeah, but there's a reason Batman always beats Superman when they fight - any other outcome is going to just make Clark look like a bully. Nobody wants to see Superman win that fight, not dumb audiences, and not smart audiences, either. AT BEST you can go for a Dark Knight Returns "win by losing". I would argue that making a lifelong ally and friendship with the most powerful being on the planet is winning by losing, even if he embarrasses you in the process. Except that lifelong in this case means the next ten minutes, but whatever.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:08
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.. Also honestly like, Batman looks like a huge-rear end bully in BvS? Unless you have a fetish for seeing Batman beat up Superman he is 100% absolutely in the wrong. Superman comes to him after seeing his mother being horribly abused and begs him to listen and tries to explain Luthor is using them. Batman responds by frantically trying to murder him. Superman points out that if he wanted Batman dead Batman would be dead and Batman frantically continued to try to murder him. Superman gets pissed off because his mother is literally on a time limit and Batman's penis envy is so large he won't stop trying to murder him, they have a fight, and Batman veers between beating up a helpless enemy and kind of frantically cowering when he realizes his enemy could kick his rear end if he really wanted to. Like from start to finish he's a Bat Bully until he realizes what he's doing and changes.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:12
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MrAristocrates posted:Batman can't lose, it's not marketable Yea, Batman fans loose their poo poo when its even suggested that Batman can't do something or can't win. And those kinds of Batman fans are who DC has been making their movies for. ImpAtom posted:.. Also honestly like, Batman looks like a huge-rear end bully in BvS? I mentioned before that while waiting for the start of BvS a bunch of guys behind us were talking about how they have been waiting to see batman taken down superman for years, that the big boring boy scout is going to be taken down by the super cool bad rear end grimdark real hero. They were also talking how they wished the Joker was in the movie. It is really obvious that the movie is trying to make you root for Batman because the theatrical cut clearly is saying that Bruce is more interesting and more justified in his motives, while Clark just bitches about not being able to cover Batman and that he's on the sports desk. The Extended cut at least shows Clark going around and doing some investigating, trying to find out more about the Bat, and the movie overall feels less Anti-Superman.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:42
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ImpAtom posted:.. Also honestly like, Batman looks like a huge-rear end bully in BvS? And that's fine. That's an interpretation of Batman that has been used plenty. But that can't be Superman.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:45
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