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Family Values posted:No, not really, white flight isn't just 'hey there are fewer whites here than before'. It's a complex process associated with the breakdown of social institutions, decline of government services, increased crime rates, declining property values (the resulting loss of tax revenue contributing to all of the above), and a cycle of poverty setting in. Fremont is a wealthy suburb lol, it's experienced nothing like actual white flight. Up until the 80s Fremont was mostly working class whites. Working class folks are getting priced out of the Bay Area. Just because Fremont is a well off suburb with a low crime rate doesn't mean it didn't experience white flight. White flight means "white flight"....not high crime, poverty and low land values (though that is a part of it in many cases). Not sure why you're all butthurt that someone brought it up in regards to Fremont.
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Jul 3, 2016 03:50
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okay so when blue collar white folks moved out of neighborhoods like mine, and when new developments zoned to schools that rank among california's best pop up, why is it not white people with the means who replace these older blue collar whites or who move into these new developments, hmmm or in the parts of fremont (e.g. around grimmer elementary or blacow elementary) that are still largely blue collar, why has the white student population in these schools plummeted since 93-94, with mostly latinos taking their place
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Jul 3, 2016 03:52
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SA can never decide if they want white people to move in or they want white people to move out.
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Jul 3, 2016 03:57
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:okay so when blue collar white folks moved out of neighborhoods like mine, and when new developments zoned to schools that rank among california's best pop up, why is it not white people with the means who replace these older blue collar whites or who move into these new developments, hmmm Which Bay Area cities have seen their white population actually increase as a percentage since the late 80s? I'm not aware of any, but I haven't gone and googled it. My understanding is that the entire state is now majority minority and whites are a declining share of the overall population. That's not a bad thing in my view, mind you. But if the white population is declining, why would you expect blue collar whites who leave to be replaced by other whites? Look all I'm saying is that it's a cheap shot to accuse people of racism for primarily economically motivated decisions. 'Haha you can't afford a house in the neighborhood you grew up in, guess that makes you a racist!'
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Jul 3, 2016 04:07
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FRINGE posted:SA can never decide if they want white people to move in or they want white people to move out.
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Jul 3, 2016 04:14
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FCKGW posted:The 91 express was a very successful experiment so now they're coming to every single freeway in SoCal. I-15 through the IE doesn't have HOV lanes and is getting very crowed due to tremendous growth in the area so when they started planning on widening the freeway they decided to add 1 HOV and 1 general purpose lane. This annoys me for some reason
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Jul 3, 2016 04:26
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Family Values posted:Which Bay Area cities have seen their white population actually increase as a percentage since the late 80s? I'm not aware of any, but I haven't gone and googled it. My understanding is that the entire state is now majority minority and whites are a declining share of the overall population. That's not a bad thing in my view, mind you. But if the white population is declining, why would you expect blue collar whites who leave to be replaced by other whites? ooh, so close and yet so far here quote:Look all I'm saying is that it's a cheap shot to accuse people of racism for primarily economically motivated decisions. 'Haha you can't afford a house in the neighborhood you grew up in, guess that makes you a racist!' it ain't like pleasanton is any cheaper than fremont (just in case it's not clear here, i'm not buying your premise)
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Jul 3, 2016 04:27
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FRINGE posted:SA can never decide if they want white people to move in or they want white people to move out. RaHoWa IMO.
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Jul 3, 2016 04:33
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:ooh, so close and yet so far here This isn't an actual answer.
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Jul 3, 2016 04:39
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Family Values posted:This isn't an actual answer. Okay I'll bite: if blue collar whites are getting priced out of the area as it becomes more affluent, you'd expect them to be replaced to a large degree by affluent whites seeking those highly rated schools and high property values and such. For some reason, that isn't happening. There was an article last year about a new 99 ranch opening somewhere in the greater LA area in a similar sort of neighborhood. Every white person the LA Times interviewed in that story came off as racist. This old lady would literally drive an extra five miles or something because she couldn't handle getting her groceries at 99 instead of Ralph's. Edit: http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-groceries-race-20150727-htmlstory.html
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Jul 3, 2016 04:46
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Tarezax posted:Okay I'll bite: if blue collar whites are getting priced out of the area as it becomes more affluent, you'd expect them to be replaced to a large degree by affluent whites seeking those highly rated schools and high property values and such. For some reason, that isn't happening. Where are these whites coming from?  There has been a decline of 3 million whites since '90. So I wouldn't expect any growth of whites in any city. None of which is to say that there aren't white racists. Just that "there aren't as many whites in Fremont" is not a good example of racism. And also, 'I'm asian and I live in Fremont, I know just what it's like to be a downtrodden minority in these United States' is really dumb. edit; Source for the chart: http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-census-latinos-20150708-story.html
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Jul 3, 2016 04:50
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Oakland's white population grew by ~10% while the black population dropped quite a lot between 2000 and 2010. Now I don't really have a full statistical picture of things. It would be nice to know where affluent whites are moving vs poor whites, and how local conditions affect that. I don't think you can deny that racism is a factor in Fremont's population generally being replaced by affluent minorities instead of affluent whites, though.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:12
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Racist white will happily move from Fremont to Gilroy if they can keep their neighbors white. It's dumb and bad. Also, the fact that a formerly blue collar white suburb is now an affluent Asian/Latino suburb should tell you something. White flight is real and it is bad. There is intersectionality with things like rent. making GBS threads on an Asian for gentrifying a formerly white blue collar neighborhood is astoundingly lovely at a "voting for Trump to Make America Great Again" kinda way.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:13
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:okay so when blue collar white folks moved out of neighborhoods like mine, and when new developments zoned to schools that rank among california's best pop up, why is it not white people with the means who replace these older blue collar whites or who move into these new developments, hmmm Are you one of those dumpy white guys in Fremont that has a lifted black truck that has an American flag in the back? I saw that rather frequently when I lived for 2-3 years in Fremont and this post reminded me of it.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:25
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Rah! posted:metro Oakland = the SF Bay Area. "Metro Oakland" is kind of a weird thing to say. My use of metro was simply to imply downtown (in spite of all the old jokes that there isn't one, which is probably why I didn't just say downtown.) There are parts of Oakland that are quite nice, there are parts of Oakland that are terrible.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:54
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Craptacular! posted:My use of metro was simply to imply downtown (in spite of all the old jokes that there isn't one, which is probably why I didn't just say downtown.) There are parts of Oakland that are quite nice, there are parts of Oakland that are terrible. Weird, I've lived in the bay area my entire life, and currently live in Oakland, and have never heard downtown Oakland referred to as "metro Oakland" (and have also never heard any jokes about here not being a downtown in oakland...  ). When someone says "metro" i think "metropolitan area" or "subway." And yeah I'm aware that Oakland has nice and bad parts, and for the record I would rather live in a bad part of Oakland than a bad part of say, Las Vegas, or Tulsa, or Philly, or a whole lot of other places.
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Jul 3, 2016 06:05
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Rah! posted:Weird, I've lived in the bay area my entire life, and currently live in Oakland, and have never heard downtown Oakland referred to as "metro Oakland" (and have also never heard any jokes about here not being a downtown in oakland... "There is no there there" (Gertrude Stein) is the quote people use I believe.
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Jul 3, 2016 06:26
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Rah! posted:Weird, I've lived in the bay area my entire life, and currently live in Oakland, and have never heard downtown Oakland referred to as "metro Oakland" (and have also never heard any jokes about here not being a downtown in oakland... Yah never heard of the fuckin' Oakland metro. Lmao, what the hell.
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Jul 3, 2016 06:29
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Trabisnikof posted:"There is no there there" (Gertrude Stein) is the quote people use I believe. That was in regards to her childhood home in Oakland no longer existing...it had nothing to do with Oakland supposedly not having a downtown. fits my needs posted:Yah never heard of the fuckin' Oakland metro. Lmao, what the hell. I have heard of the Oakland metro opera house, if that's what you mean. But who the hell is talking about that? Craptacular said "metro oakland" as a synonym for "downtown oakland", which is pretty weird, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to the Oakland metro opera house.
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Jul 3, 2016 06:45
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Rah! posted:That was in regards to her childhood home in Oakland no longer existing...it had nothing to do with Oakland supposedly not having a downtown. It's almost as if they're using it as code for "there are too many of them there"
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Jul 3, 2016 06:51
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Bip Roberts posted:RaHoWa IMO. We must secure the existence of our forums and a future for goon shitlords.
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Jul 3, 2016 07:27
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Every time I leave California people make fun of my accent so I can't leave.
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Jul 3, 2016 07:30
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Trabisnikof posted:It's almost as if they're using it as code for "there are too many of them there" I bet a lot of asshats do use it in that context. But Gertrude stein was referring to her childhood home, which she learned had been demolished, when she returned to Oakland in 1935 after being away for 40 years. Oakland had very few black people at that time, for the record. They mostly arrived during WWII and afterwards, just like the rest of the Bay Area/California/West Coast.
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Jul 3, 2016 08:41
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Man I fuckin love being a 10 minute drive away from Ranch 99, Mitsuwa, Zion Market, and various Indian and Mexican markets. The people in that article are doing California wrong.
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Jul 3, 2016 08:58
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Shbobdb posted:Racist white will happily move from Fremont to Gilroy if they can keep their neighbors white. It's dumb and bad. It's funny you bring up Gilroy in this context. The city just hired a PR person and one of the first comments I heard from her in the paper was her supporting new housing in some ag land by saying we wouldn't have to see so many ag workers around.
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Jul 3, 2016 09:20
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Gilroy is 58% Latino, so if whites are moving there to have a whites only enclave they must not've looked around or even read the wikipedia article first.
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Jul 3, 2016 17:54
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fits my needs posted:Are you one of those dumpy white guys in Fremont that has a lifted black truck that has an American flag in the back? I saw that rather frequently when I lived for 2-3 years in Fremont and this post reminded me of it. i'm an ABC dude (but i know what you're talking about; whenever i see a pickup truck or old van around with a fuckload of right-wing bumper stickers or a gadsden flag sticker, it's always, without exception, some white baby boomer) Bastard Tetris posted:Man I fuckin love being a 10 minute drive away from Ranch 99, Mitsuwa, Zion Market, and various Indian and Mexican markets. The people in that article are doing California wrong.  the beauty of fremont is also being able to grab flatbread that's as tall as i am for like $3 from any number of afghan groceries (which by the way are often very close to heavily asian/latino working or middle class areas) Jerry Manderbilt fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 18:25
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The idea of some Chinese guy, whose parents were possibly computer programmers/managers/executives employed by some technology mega-corp, classifying himself as a victim of white flight because he lived in Fremont, CA is hilarious to me. A huge reason why white flight was so bad in places like Gary, Indiana and East St. Louis, Illinois wasn't just that the white people were being racist and left town--it was that they took all of the businesses and industries with them and left minorities to rot. Fremont is like the total opposite of those places.
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Jul 3, 2016 18:54
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why do you people think i'm classifying myself as a victim (i'm not, i'm just noting the trends and the poo poo i've seen growing up here), or insisting that if it isn't literally a rust belt inner city then it isn't white flight
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Jul 3, 2016 18:59
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silence_kit posted:The idea of some Chinese guy, whose parents were possibly computer programmers/managers/executives employed by some technology mega-corp, classifying himself as a victim of white flight because he lived in Fremont, CA is hilarious to me. A huge reason why white flight was so bad in places like Gary, Indiana and East St. Louis, Illinois wasn't just that the white people were being racist and left town--it was that they took all of the businesses and industries with them and left minorities to rot. Fremont is like the total opposite of those places. When did he ever say he was a victim? White flight is white flight, even though the economic consequences in this case were minimal.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:01
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:why do you people think i'm classifying myself as a victim (i'm not, i'm just noting the trends and the poo poo i've seen growing up here), or insisting that if it isn't literally a rust belt inner city then it isn't white flight You aren't understanding that your situation has very little to do with white flight as most people describe it. Fremont isn't a crime- and poverty-stricken hellhole with no jobs. In fact, it is almost completely the opposite. White people left Fremont, and then the city became richer.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:02
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Family Values posted:
Because apparently you don't understand how populations work? Multiple California municipalities and cities have seen growths in their white percentages, because all the whites didn't just die off or leave the state. It would extremely unusual if absolutely none experienced growth in whites, so your expectations are pretty out of whack. silence_kit posted:You aren't understanding that your situation has very little to do with white flight as most people describe it. Fremont isn't a crime- and poverty-stricken hellhole with no jobs. Despite the lack of understanding of certain people, it usually takes a while between white flight happening, and things falling apart, and in many cases the town/city is lucky enough to not experience all that significant amounts of problems. It also tends to have more immediate effects when whites still control higher authorities in the area to a great extent and can defund the places they left behind. fishmech fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 19:05
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silence_kit posted:You aren't understanding that your situation has very little to do with white flight as most people describe it. Fremont isn't a crime- and poverty-stricken hellhole with no jobs. In fact, it is almost completely the opposite. White people left Fremont, and then the city became richer. white people left town (many for whiter, richer pastures in the tri-valley), but it's not white flight because the reasons people give for leaving happen to be different from those given in the midwest??? and heck, for all the talk about how blue collar whites left the city, there's plenty of areas in town where they were replaced by working-class asians and latinos Jerry Manderbilt fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 19:05
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Like, okay, it didn't leave Fremont a poverty-stricken slum, but white people are loving off, so what else are we supposed to call it?
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Jul 3, 2016 19:08
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cant we all just agree that we should firebomb all the gated communities in the Central Valley
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Jul 3, 2016 19:13
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Until the late 80s Fremont was a blue collar industrial town. The GM plant there was an example of the types of jobs available. That plant shut down in 82, then reopened for a short time as a joint Toyota/GM operation, then shut down again, then reopened as the Tesla factory. Each shutdown lasted for multiple years and each reopening employed fewer people than before. The entire cause and effect is backwards here: whites didn't gently caress off because asians were moving in, whites hosed off because their factory jobs disappeared. Like, some of you should stop trying *so hard* to stick to the narrative.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:23
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:white people left town (many for whiter, richer pastures in the tri-valley), but it's not white flight because the reasons people give for leaving happen to be different from those given in the midwest??? Maybe you are having trouble understanding this because you grew up in Fremont, California, but living in an economically depressed community really sucks. White flight wasn't bad for minorities just because white people left cities--it was bad because they took all of the businesses and industries too and left minorities to rot. If white people had left and economic prosperity had stayed in places like East St. Louis and Gary, arguably they'd be nicer places for minorities to live in post-flight because at least they wouldn't be surrounded by racist whites. Fremont is totally unlike what everybody else means when they talk about white flight and how it destroyed cities. You have no clue (although to be fair, neither do I) about what it is like to grow up in a decaying inner city slum. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 19:24
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So what would be the proper terminology
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Jul 3, 2016 19:38
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Gentrification
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Jul 3, 2016 19:42
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one doesn't usually call working class whites being replaced by working class minorities (which is something that in fact happened in parts of fremont) "gentrification"
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Jul 3, 2016 19:48
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