|
The fact that there is a big event going on called Apocalypse Wars, during the period in history where there is a movie called X-Men: Apocalypse in theaters should tell you that at worst they aren't even ignoring what Fox is doing with the film rights. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 3, 2016 |
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 23:15 |
|
|
Toxxupation posted:No they're not. There's literally over a dozen X-Books of various denominations and they just started a new X-Series off the back of the ANAD relaunch. Deadpool is probably one of the top five characters in the Marvel universe at this point who supports something like five different ongoings with just his name on it in some fashion. There's a mutant on virtually every single teamup book (including Uncanny Avengers, which is almost entirely mutants), Wolverine is dead and has two ongoing series with his name on it. Marvel is not marginalizing the X-Men. I mean, hell, there's a dedicated X-Men miniseries of Civil War II, which is an honor (a dedicated miniseries over a tie-in issue carried by a currently running comic) that only the X-Men and Spider-Man have so far. Aren't Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch Not mutants and Not Magneto's kids again? Fair point about the rest, though. But answer me this, because I didn't read the arc. Did the X-Men willingly aid Apocalypse in making some genocide bomb? Because if they did, I'd rather Marvel did axe the franchise rather than run it into the ground. They've already betrayed a lot of the core ideas of the franchise but something like this would be a new low.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Aren't Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch Not mutants and Not Magneto's kids again? Also, unless there is another Apocalypse genocide bomb in one of the more recent comics, the last one was during a period called AXIS in which everyone has some sort of disposition change which for 99% of characters meant they went evil/good. So it wasn't even a period where they were vilified in the universe for more than a couple issues.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:06
|
|
|
Wanda and Pietro are indeed not currently mutants (e: or maybe I'm wrong) but that's been on and off for decades. Deadpool may not count as an xman but he's certainly a Fox movie property so it would stand to reason if they were distancing from Xmen despite them being moneymakers they'd do it with Wade too. There's just zero evidence that they are distancing at all. They are from the F4, axing the team and moving chars to other franchises, but Xmen and mutants are still core Marvel characters by every possible metric. JoshTheStampede fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:07
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I really hope once Apocalypse Wars is over, the All New X-men go to the Mall. Kay, but I've got some bad news for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCj2hRc_F6Y This is what malls are now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:07
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Aren't Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch Not mutants and Not Magneto's kids again? Quicksilver's dead I think, they're still mutants, not Magneto's kids. ed: Was wrong. And they're not even distancing from the FF considering they're, you know, the family that founded Marvel, it's just that they're having the Richardses not being part of the universe a new, temporary status quo. Whenever the FF return - and boy, they're gonna return - it's gonna be the biggest thing ever. Probably the end of some event where the Richards return triumphantly leading into a new series with superstars on it. Marvel just won't abandon such a crucial part of their history for good. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:08
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Quicksilver's dead I think, they're still mutants, not Magneto's kids. I thought quicksilver is in uncanny avengers and they are not mutants.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:10
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Quicksilver's dead I think, they're still mutants, not Magneto's kids. No, they're products of High Evolutionary's genetic experimentation. I guess that means they don't have the "x-gene" or whatever. It was retconned a while back, it's stupid but honestly done probably more to make the comic characters more like the Avengers MCU characters, like black Nick Fury. Like if you want to blame if on Fox, I guess you can but I imagine it went more like: "Ok, Fox will let us use Wanda and PIetro but we can't call them mutants." "So what do we call them." "Uhm...products of genetic experimentation!" "Great call the writers and tell them their poo poo better line up with the movies or people will be confused when they rush to comic book stores to read about these characters that we basically just invented who totally have no backstory beyond the films." PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:11
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:The fact that there is a big event going on called Apocalypse Wars, during the period in history where there is a movie called X-Men: Apocalypse in theaters should tell you that at worst they aren't even ignoring what Fox is doing with the film rights. A big event confined to three books with no one shots or specials. I mean, the X-Men embargo is probably not as big as some people say but there was an editorial edict. Bendis even said he was told to not create any new mutants because Fox would automatically own the film rights to them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:15
|
|
|
In the case of Wanda and Pietro, it makes sense for Marvel to emphasize the connection between the comics and their owned movie version of a character. That's a lot different from axing or downplaying an entire section of your universe because of someone else's movies.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:16
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:A big event confined to three books with no one shots or specials. Ok so it's not a big mega event, but it's comparable to what Age of X? I mean it's still a decently sized event that spans three of the main X-Men titles. It's not like it's confined to it's own tiny corner of X-Men titles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:To your second point: This is the superhero comics genre, and the superhero comics genre requires villains. Some bad people need to stay bad because otherwise there's nobody for the good guys to punch besides other good guys, which is something that Marvel's gotten a lot of flak for anyways (that nobody's a true "villain" in the Marvel Universe and that most line-wide crossovers consist of heroes fighting other heroes). Weeeeeeeell, sort of. The earliest superhero comics pit the heroes against pulp standards like mad scientists, gangsters, invading aliens/nations, and general social ills. For the most part, these were power fantasies and just-so morality plays—there sure is a lot of bullshit and suffering, but wouldn't it be  if you or shine suitably benevolent other could cut through the nonsense, and fix it? I'm sure there are some very early examples of proper supervillains, but they were absolutely not norm.Supervillainy becoming the antagonistic norm required some of the very earliest deconstruction of the genre: asking why it seemed like only decent people had super-abilities(/devices/etc). Couldn't an antisocial dick have gadgets/eyebeams and put on a costume? Much/most of the superhero genre deconstruction since then has been asking that same question—What if they weren't all nice?—with varying levels of refinement. The complement, asking what if the people they fought weren't all bad, accounts for most of the rest the deconstruction. Appropriate for a genre that started as power fantasies and morality plays, the deconstruction that isn't moral is frequently about power: What if the power actually sucked, as with the Thing? What if, while powerful in some ways, the characters were super-weak in others, like Daredevil's blindness or how Peter Parker is an absolute schemazl. What about problems that power can't answer? The X-men spent a decade as an extreme example of all of these, btw. Their power subjects them also to bigotry, and they're struggling against the No More Mutants death of their identity group. Most of their major supervillains became AOK pals and even lived on their island enclave, while the ostensible heroes fought each other over degrees of compromise and necessity. All of this is to say that while supervillains remain conventional in the genre, and are so entrenched that you're not going to see them vanish any time soon, they're not required. Both early superhero comics and the most recent permutations of long deconstructive trends demonstrate that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
X-men Embargo seems more aimed at games. You can find the cutoff date for X-men being in games being sometime between the release of conquest of champions and future fight, because both came out fairly close to each other but CoC has X-men while Future Fight does not. Which is too bad because FF is a much, much better game than CoC. Not in Avengers Academy, though that almost would be better to just have a stand alone Xaviers School game with X-men in it. Then we have Lego Avengers which has no mutants in it at all, or FF characters, and only got a Spider-Man pack after the Civil War stuff was released, unlike Lego Marvel which had a good selection of Marvel characters across the board. SomeJazzyRat posted:Kay, but I've got some bad news for you. That's only because the X-men haven't been going to them recently.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:Ok so it's not a big mega event, but it's comparable to what Age of X? I mean it's still a decently sized event that spans three of the main X-Men titles. It's not like it's confined to it's own tiny corner of X-Men titles. But all the titles involved are X-men titles, what point do you think you are making.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:A big event confined to three books with no one shots or specials. It's still the exact opposite of distancing though - they're slapping a big label on every X-team book saying "hey this is like that movie".
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
Squizzle posted:Weeeeeeeell, sort of. The earliest superhero comics pit the heroes against pulp standards like mad scientists, gangsters, invading aliens/nations, and general social ills. For the most part, these were power fantasies and just-so morality plays—there sure is a lot of bullshit and suffering, but wouldn't it be Yeah this is definitely a much more nuanced and reasoned take.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:30
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:But all the titles involved are X-men titles, what point do you think you are making. X-Men have been an insular brand for a longer period than they haven't and even when they have we still had events like Age of X which were X-Men X-clusive(couldn't resist). A better, or more telling example would be to say that X-Men don't get to participate in the big events that go on in the rest of the 616...except there is an X-Men Civil War 2 book being printed...so they do.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:35
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:Ok so it's not a big mega event, but it's comparable to what Age of X? I mean it's still a decently sized event that spans three of the main X-Men titles. It's not like it's confined to it's own tiny corner of X-Men titles. But it IS confined to a tiny corner. Half of the X-Men line is composed of Deadpool books these days and those barely even qualify as X-Men titles. I'm not saying it's a full on embargo like some but they have definitely pushed them slightly to the side. Maybe if they can push Perlmutter out of the comic side as well things will get back to normal.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:40
|
|
|
Apocalypse Wars isn't really a crossover event, even. All three X-books are doing storylines about Apocalypse, but none of them affect each other at all (so far). I think Civil War II: X-Men is the first time two of the teams even meet (and the third hasn't yet).
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
/\/\ they met up early in Uncanny when they drop off a mutant they rescued at the Limbo school. The X-line has ALWAYS had its own little crossovers in addition to being part of larger universe ones, going back to Fall of the Mutants. This is normal.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
JoshTheStampede posted:/\/\ they met up early in Uncanny when they drop off a mutant they rescued at the Limbo school. Well that's what I'm saying, this isn't a major crossover, it's just some side stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:44
|
|
|
Yeah it's like how the Spider-Books are basically kinda their own thing too with their own crossover events that stick mostly to themselves, but it's more that Spider-Man is the rock upon which the entirety of Marvel is built so stuff like Spider-Island and Spider-Verse will have more significant tie-ins. I always viewed the MU as three spheres: the Spider stuff, the X-Stuff, and the greater Marvel universe.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:48
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Well that's what I'm saying, this isn't a major crossover, it's just some side stuff. I never said it was a major crossover. My point was that at worst it's business as usual PLUS an event that relates to the new movie. If they wanted to completely ignore the Fox stuff then there most certainly wouldn't be an event going on that linked to the new movie. Toxxupation posted:I always viewed the MU as three spheres: the Spider stuff, the X-Stuff, and the greater Marvel universe. I'd agree with that and further divide the greater Marvel U stuff into two spheres of Earth-centric and Cosmic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
You called it a "big event" which is absolutely isn't.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:53
|
|
|
Keep in mind, though, that the reason the X-books had their own events and crossovers back in the day was because they were the megastars and leading names, whereas at the time Captain America and Thor and Iron Man and the rest of the Avengers were the third-stringers that didn't warrant any attention.  On a related note...I've been reading through Uncanny Avengers and I quite like it. The team dynamic is good and they kinda feel like the one Avengers/X-team that's...actually doing anything? I mean, everyone else is doing stuff but it's like...the Unity Squad should by all rights be the most dysfunctional and slapdash of all the teams, and yet they come across instead as the most efficient and put-together. The one draw-back I might bring up is that most of the characters' voices are pretty...samey? Cable and Deadpool are the ones that have the most distinct voices. Still, I've never really paid any attention to Gerry Duggan before and this was an enjoyable intro to him.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:56
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Yeah this is definitely a much more nuanced and reasoned take. Basically if you want to derive the entire superhero genre from first principles, you should think about how great it would feel to be powerful enough to solve society's troubles while dressed like a glam muscle clown, then relentlessly and iteratively scoff at the idea.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:57
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:You called it a "big event" which is absolutely isn't. I'd consider it a big event in the X-Men sphere. Not like a Civil War level big event which has a million crossovers but it's still involving the major titles of the line and being drug out over the summer. It's freaking 13 issues. That's 4 more than Fall of the Mutants and 1 more than X-Cuitioner's Song which were both big events of X-Men past.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:I'd agree with that and further divide the greater Marvel U stuff into two spheres of Earth-centric and Cosmic. I don't know, has cosmic Marvel ever been as big and connected as the others(aside from Annihilation)?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:I'd consider it a big event in the X-Men sphere. Not like a Civil War level big event which has a million crossovers but it's still involving the major titles of the line and being drug out over the summer. It's freaking 13 issues. That's 4 more than Fall of the Mutants and 1 more than X-Cuitioner's Song which were both big events of X-Men past. Both of those crossovers were when the X-Men books were the premier Marvel titles and pushed above everything else. Apocalypse Wars is nothing like that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
[loudly, happily] What if a strong man loved justice and circus cosplay? [sotto voce, toward audience] All of my ideas lead to ruin.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:I don't know, has cosmic Marvel ever been as big and connected as the others(aside from Annihilation)? Abnett and Lanning basically made it Its Own Thing due to Annihilation/Conquest/War/Realm of Kings/Thanos Imperative running for like seven years or something plus they helped invent the modern Guardians of the Galaxy. I would say at this point it's a fairly big deal (much moreso than Mystic and Occult Marvel or, one of my favorite slices of the Marvel Universe, whatever the gently caress the lords of Hell are doing). I mean, Hickman's run on Avengers leading up to Secret Wars was very much a Cosmic Marvel story dealing with the Builder War and Infinity and the Incursions and the Beyonders et al. Plus Nova has become a Cosmic Marvel book at this point (and the revival of it with Sam is very much a continuation of the Cosmic angle) and the most recent arc of ANAD Avengers is a Cosmic arc. It's not like, huge enough that I'd say it's its own sphere to the level of the Spider-Books or the X-Books (and not necessarily significant enough to be a sub-sphere of the greater MU), but it's pretty big. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:12
|
|
|
Cosmic Marvel was big enough during the Infinity trilogy. Probably bigger than the Annihilation era.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:14
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Both of those crossovers were when the X-Men books were the premier Marvel titles and pushed above everything else. Apocalypse Wars is nothing like that. If you're saying that in your experience as someone who works at a comic store, you don't see the advertising push for AW that you have for other X-Men events then I can't argue that. I don't see any X-Men advertising beyond what's in each issue. As someone who just reads them though, the fact that they're spending 3-5 issues of each major X-Men title to tell stories about Apocalypse feels like a big deal. Not like a huge Age of Apocalypse deal, but given other recent events like Battle of the Atom or Age of X, certainly as big as those. Again, I can't speak to the marketing, but as a reader it feels similar.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:22
|
|
|
PaybackJack posted:If you're saying that in your experience as someone who works at a comic store, you don't see the advertising push for AW that you have for other X-Men events then I can't argue that. Battle of the Atom was hyped like hell and had promo posters sent out. AW has had nothing. Perlmutter's made sure that Marvel proper doesn't do much aside from in comic ads.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:28
|
|
|
Double posting because someone just linked this on Facebook and it's excellent
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:49
|
|
|
The best way to rule the universe is to take all the credit for it and outlive the guy who did most of the work.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:50
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:The best way to rule the universe is to take all the credit for it and outlive the guy who did most of the work. I really want to see how Hollywood treats Jack Kirby.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:52
|
|
|
A Marvel movie like The Social Network would be cool. Simon and Ditko should get proper respects for Cap and Spider-Man, too. (Was Doctor Strange Kirby or Ditko? I don't remember)
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:56
|
|
|
So I just finished the solo Flash Venom run (good series, I really hope someone does a Mania solo someday because I really liked Andi's relationship with Flash). Is any of the subsequent Flash Venom stuff good like Venom: Space Knight or when he's on the Guardians?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 21:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 23:15 |
|
|
Toxxupation posted:So I just finished the solo Flash Venom run (good series, I really hope someone does a Mania solo someday because I really liked Andi's relationship with Flash). Is any of the subsequent Flash Venom stuff good like Venom: Space Knight or when he's on the Guardians? He's pretty good on GotG (until the stupid Planet of the Symbiotes arc). I'm not really digging his new monthly. I'm honestly ready for it to go back to Eddie at this point.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 21:13
|
|