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DeimosRising posted:I don't know poo poo about or care for Ghost in the Shell but the degradation of his art is depressing. Those early pages, especially the one with the space marine cops and the lead dissolving into the cityscape/lights are really great. He also had a great sense of using color to portray mood. Such as the start of a new day/comic series...  ...Neo-Cold War spycraft...  a serial killer hunt...  His color chapter titles also evoked mood with color...   Even the often-mentioned lesbian scene uses this, with a lot of pink and pastels, and it's probably the biggest difference between his pre-computer erotic work and now. Unless he has his ingenue framed by a background of writhing flesh, most of Shirow's porno work today is either steel gray urban skies or over-exposed white lighting.
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Apr 22, 2016 00:27
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Those are pretty. What is the lesbian orgy I keep hearing about?
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Apr 22, 2016 00:41
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There was like this 2 page sex scene, that they were gonna to label the entire work erotica over. It made him have to go back and remove it. This sums up anime pretty much https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLkGlK0cbKE (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Apr 25, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 01:04
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Snowman_McK posted:Those are pretty. In chapter 3 (the title page in the post above you, in fact), has Batou doing surveillance when he's interrupted by Aramaki in the field about a change of plans, so he goes to "hivemind" into a vacationing Kusanagi to let her know. The scene cuts to a boat with a tanned Kusanagi getting fingerbanged by a girl and another joining in, which later turns out to be a sort of virtual reality called "edurno". Batou immediately feels weird because he is registering sensations from organs that he doesn't have (such as breasts). Kusanagi backhacks him and forces him to punch himself out for interrupting her. The whole thing is interesting because Kusanagi has no dialogue other than moans, but the other two girls sperg out on the technical details of the virtual experience. Surprisingly, this and her lesbian relationship with the girls actually gets referenced Stand Alone Complex. The nurse who pops up time and again in the series is one of the participants and in one episode, when Kusanagi is reviewing some case files, she and the other girl have virtual sex off-screen behind Motoko's back. Tenzarin posted:There was like this 2 page sex scene, that they were gonna to label the entire work erotica over. It made him have to go back and remove it. It's not the last time it happened. The serialized version of GITS2: MMI had a single page with Motoko hacking into an African hacker girl, while she's getting double-penetrated by two black guerrilla soldiers under her command. Supposedly, Shirow had a change of heart and redid the scene with Motoko giving her a virus that causes the hacker girl to have a seizure when it came time to publish the collected tankoban edition (and that was used for foreign releases).
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Apr 22, 2016 01:13
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Squinty posted:I do think that Tilda Swinton doing her best David Carradine impression is the worse of the two They're pretty honest about the reasoning behind their decision, at least: Wikipedia posted:In regards to casting a white, female actress for a character generally depicted as an older Tibetan man, co-writer C. Robert Cargill called it "Marvel's Kobayashi Maru" saying, "There is no other character in Marvel [Comics] history that is such a cultural land mine that is absolutely unwinnable". He explained that, like the Kobayashi Maru, decisions regarding the Ancient One for the film were more about "which way you're willing to lose," citing how the character was a racial stereotype at the time of its creation, as well as potentially adding tension to the political landscape around Tibet by either embracing the Tibetan background, or choosing an actor of another Asian nationality to portray a Tibetan character. As such, director Scott Derrickson decided to "use this as an opportunity to cast an amazing actress in a male role."
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Apr 22, 2016 05:22
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Funny thing is that even as a stupid kid I realized something was off about the edited GiTS. You only see the first drawing of the sex scene, which shows one of the girls entering the VR boat, and it's heavily edited so it looks like they're just sunbathing. Then the next page shows Batou interrupting the Major, and writing around clutching his stomach, complaining about "sea-sickness". Then he gets cyber hacked by a visibly embarrassed Major. The pacing feels way off and it's pretty obvious you missed something. But considering it's the only one in the whole book, I'd say it's not a terrible loss. Renoistic fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Apr 22, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 05:44
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I've been rewatching GitS:SAC 2nd gig lately and I wouldn't be surprised, given world events right now, if they crib a lot from this series. The refugee situation in the second series is probably the best story to use to make the movie feel deeper and bit more relevant to today, although it would get more mileage in Europe than the US. Even if they just use it in the background it'd be a good choice. As an aside though: it's kinda funny that a show from 12 years ago has a story line that is heavily relevant today. Everything old is new.
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Apr 27, 2016 18:32
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Crain posted:I've been rewatching GitS:SAC 2nd gig lately and I wouldn't be surprised, given world events right now, if they crib a lot from this series. The refugee situation in the second series is probably the best story to use to make the movie feel deeper and bit more relevant to today, although it would get more mileage in Europe than the US. I'm pretty sure a plotline that tries to make fanatical Islamic refugee terrorists look like not the bad guy wont go over so well in America. The refugees in 2nd gig were just reference as Asians I don't recall them making any focus of on their life style. I think it would turn the movie into a Elysium social commentary that is completely not needed, just like Elysium where Matt Damon was a Mexican. I guess they could be Canadian refugees and it would work out the same.
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Apr 27, 2016 18:48
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Tenzarin posted:I'm pretty sure a plotline that tries to make fanatical Islamic refugee terrorists look like not the bad guy wont go over so well in America.
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Apr 27, 2016 18:50
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Now imagine how well it will go over in Europe. It would bomb in Germany.
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Apr 27, 2016 18:55
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Tenzarin posted:I'm pretty sure a plotline that tries to make fanatical Islamic refugee terrorists look like not the bad guy wont go over so well in America. That's why they wouldn't do it like that. This movie isn't like the movies or the anime series. It's not going to be a vehicle for someone to spend far too many words on personal philosophy. Or at least nothing heavier than what you can get from a Nolan movie. But you could use the refugee situation as a macguffin without going so far as to just spend 2 hours going "THESE AREN'T REALLY THE BAD GUYS". I mean, beyond the individual 11 and a few plot relevant refugees we never really spend a lot of time on the specifics of their situation. Unless they do and I've forgotten since the last time I watched it. You can leave them as generic "Asian Refugees" or just plain "Refugees" or come up with another random disaster to use as a proper noun for them that sounds wide spread enough to justify them being there. But the synopsis doesn't make it sound like that's the case. They'll probably focus more heavily on the Movies than the anime series.
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Apr 27, 2016 19:57
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Tenzarin posted:I'm pretty sure a plotline that tries to make fanatical Islamic refugee terrorists look like not the bad guy wont go over so well in America. The refugees in 2nd gig were just reference as Asians I don't recall them making any focus of on their life style. I think it would turn the movie into a Elysium social commentary that is completely not needed, just like Elysium where Matt Damon was a Mexican. The closest we get to the lifestyles of the refugees is that the mostly come from "the Peninsula", i.e. Korea. In fact, I don't think I picked up on it until they had the episode where they discussed Kuze's service there and the only people he fights are Korean People's Army, i.e. North Korea. If you don't know, Koreans are the largest group of immigrants in Japan and probably the most mistreated, it all stemming from when Japan occupied Korea from 1910. After the Great Kanto Earthquake that toppled Tokyo in 1923, there was a massacre of Korean immigrants on the belief that they were looting and causing chaos. In post-war Japan, they lost their Japanese citizenship and we're heavily discriminated against, resulting in Korean shantytowns and ghettos and dabbling with criminal activities or worked illegally. It's gotten better for most Koreans over the last few decades, with assimilation efforts and lobbying, but that means that officially Japan recognizes them, not that the Japanese do. Also, there's a lot of suspicion of the Chongryon, the North Korean immigrants lobby group, because of their opposition to assimilation of ethnic Koreans in Japanese society and because of North Korea's habit of kidnapping Japanese citizens and smuggling of weapons and drugs. Supposedly, Chongryon operates schools in Japan where they teach all about Juche and how the Kim family is great. If anything, the clear American analogy would be Mexicans and Central American immigrants. BTW, Kamayama's GITS series is loaded with euphemisms. "The Peninsula" for Korea, "Mainland" for China, I surprised America didn't become "Overseas".
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Apr 27, 2016 20:08
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So there was some stuff about this movie revealed at Anime Expo. Aramaki will be played by a Japanese guy with Japanese dialogue, subtitled into English. The production IG staff was heavily involved in the production of the live action movie. Names haven't been localized for this reason. Also of interest is that Mamoru Oshii is a big fan of Scarlett Johansson, and his preference is actually the main reason why she was cast as The Major. So this was actually a case of a Japanese guy whitewashing his own film? Also they'll either be adapting or taking all of the original soundtrack from the animated GITS movie and making that the soundtrack of this movie. So no completely new soundtrack. So it will at least sound like the original, music-wise.
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Jul 4, 2016 03:52
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Mamoru Oshii probably means Puppet Master instead of Laughing Man though. Kinda disappoint.
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Jul 4, 2016 04:20
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Ccs posted:So there was some stuff about this movie revealed at Anime Expo. Aramaki will be played by a Japanese guy with Japanese dialogue, subtitled into English. The production IG staff was heavily involved in the production of the live action movie. Names haven't been localized for this reason. Mamoru Oshii can think whatever he wants. He once called this actress he worked "the perfect Major". Not that she's bad or anything, it's just, well, GIS her photo and you can see why I think Oshii's preference is a bit suspect...  Ccs posted:Also they'll either be adapting or taking all of the original soundtrack from the animated GITS movie and making that the soundtrack of this movie. So no completely new soundtrack. So it will at least sound like the original, music-wise. I guess that's good news for Kenji Kawai. I like the soundtrack, but I'm starting to think that I'm going to see nothing new with this. Granted, I didn't like ARISE a whole lot, but whatever new elements like Col. "McOpenBlouse" Kurtz, Cyborg Pei Mei and his crack cyborg unit, and the American espionage agent whose really an unmanned drone I felt were more interesting than whatever was going on with Kusanagi and gang, and I'd rather would have watched a show with them as featured characters.
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Jul 4, 2016 05:41
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It's always been a strategy by the studios to play the "the creators!" card in defense of their whitewashing. Like the whitewashed dude from 21 was okay with being played with a white guy and the writer of The Hunger Games decided the not-so-olive-skinned Jennifer Lawrence was perfect for Katniss. People are getting worked up again because ScarJo recently had the nerve to pay lip service on how "We need diversity on Hollywood!" and many people think it's hilarious.
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Jul 4, 2016 07:17
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I think this is a rare case when outrage over whitewashing is unfounded. If Ariana Miyamoto is Japanese in this day and age, why can't Motoko Kusanagi be Japanese yet still look Caucasian in 20XX? Not to mention that we're talking about a brain in an otherwise man-made body that can look like any race. It's one thing when movies with historical settings cast white actors in otherwise non-white roles (e.g. Gods of Egypt), so if this was set in feudal Japan then casting ScarJo would be a big deal. However, given the futuristic setting and the typically racially-ambiguous nature of anime characters it's not so far-fetched to believe that a person with a Japanese name could look Caucasian even in such a racially homogeneous place as Japan.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:17
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Shoren posted:I think this is a rare case when outrage over whitewashing is unfounded. Shoren posted:If Ariana Miyamoto is Japanese in this day and age, why can't Motoko Kusanagi be Japanese yet still look Caucasian in 20XX? Not to mention that we're talking about a brain in an otherwise man-made body that can look like any race.
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Jul 4, 2016 11:39
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The problem is twofold: 1) The whitewashing meme is objectively wrong in this scenario. Nobody involved in selling the IP/TM to Ghost in the Shell has any illusion that there is some essence of 'asian-ness' to a superficial economic property. More importantly, they are thoroughly willing and even earnestly affirmative of being complicit in Orientalism, as long as it will make them money. 2) The whitewashing meme is a liberalistic misdirection from the real problem, which is not diversity, but, as the above thoroughly illustrates, capitalism. The problem is not that POC don't get 'POC roles.' The problem is that there is objectively no such thing as a POC role within a structure of a neutralizing, ethno-nationalist gaze. The whitewashing meme complains that the Major has been cast as a white lady over offering the role to Asian/Japanese actresses, but this conspicuously ignores that the 'asian-ness' of Ghost in the Shell is not actually unique relative to the ethno-national supremacy of Japan. Rather, that is the dominant analogue of white supremacy with regards to Japanese ethno-national identity. The fact that so many American viewers fundamentally identify with this 'asian-ness' of Japanese media as part of a conscious 'minority' is part of the problem. We refuse to recognize that POC itself is a construct in reaction to white supremacy that fundamentally fails to account for any number of global-capitalist scenarios in which American/white ethno-national identity is not necessarily the neutral political gaze. The Major in American Ghost in the Shell is not simply white because white American capitalists control the means of production. The Major is also white because Japanese capitalists identify with white supremacy, from the advantage of their own ethno-national supremacy.
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Jul 4, 2016 14:09
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Cardboard Box A posted:It's not about in-universe ad-hoc justifications, it's about job opportunities for real people. Silly me, I thought it was about making a good Ghost in the Shell movie
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Jul 4, 2016 14:13
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K. Waste posted:they are thoroughly willing and even earnestly affirmative of being complicit in Orientalism, as long as it will make them money. Clipperton posted:Silly me, I thought it was about making a good Ghost in the Shell movie 
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Jul 4, 2016 15:02
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Clipperton posted:Silly me, I thought it was about making a good Ghost in the Shell movie How stupid do you have to be to think Hollywood producers care about movies being good
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Jul 4, 2016 17:43
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Oshii didn't even create the characters. The movie definitely influenced how the Major was characterized in the show though.
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Jul 4, 2016 17:43
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It's true, even if one were to look at an in-setting justification, it would fail because the character's robo-body is specifically said to be like generic Japanese woman template # 3727 whatever so that she can continue to look Japanese and blend into a crowd if need be. Which is why I don't get why they don't just do a full US remake of the story like The Departed or The Magnificent Seven or whatever, her and the few other not Japanese people all happening to work in the same internal affairs department in a major Japanese city's police force in a sea of other Japanese characters is pretty stupid. Oshii was never concerned with that though, the movie is set in Hong Kong because no real reason. Plus didn't Oshii direct Avalon? Why is he even allowed to speak about anything film-related ever since?
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Jul 4, 2016 19:00
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As more and more information and discussion (such as white washing) continues, I'm moving towards hedging about minimizing its awfulness. It's shifted from how good the movie can be to how less awful it can be, which is super depressing since I love GITS. Ghost in the Shell: It Could Be Worse!
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Jul 4, 2016 19:05
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Renoistic posted:Oshii didn't even create the characters. The movie definitely influenced how the Major was characterized in the show though. The comic is terrible spergy crap. The TV shows are better but not by much. The movie is the definitive version of GITS (for me anyway, and for most people aware of the franchise I bet) so if ScarJo is okay by Oshii she's okay by me  Neo Rasa posted:It's true, even if one were to look at an in-setting justification, it would fail because the character's robo-body is specifically said to be like generic Japanese woman template # 3727 whatever so that she can continue to look Japanese and blend into a crowd if need be. Maybe in the future Japan will be diverse and multicultural and foreigners walking down the street won't get stared atpfffffft hahahahahaha
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Jul 4, 2016 19:15
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Neo Rasa posted:Which is why I don't get why they don't just do a full US remake of the story like The Departed or The Magnificent Seven or whatever, her and the few other not Japanese people all happening to work in the same internal affairs department in a major Japanese city's police force in a sea of other Japanese characters is pretty stupid. Japanese Public Safety Agency is real organization akin to the FBI and CIA in both scope and role. For example, any time there's a communist demonstration, Public Safety's out there taking pictures and doing COINTELPRO (but not when the neo-fascists in their black vans and loudspeakers come out  ). Section 9 is just a fictionalized branch, much like how M.I.6 from the James Bond films is based off the British Military Intelligence office. I've joked about it often, but really, an Americanized Section 9 would be a secret counterterrorist/counterespionage squad or group in the CIA, FBI, NSA, or what have you. They especially shouldn't be corporate industrial espionage experts or whatever the movie is presenting them as because they couldn't be bothered to localize it or give a convincing reason for foreigners to be working with the Japanese government.Neo Rasa posted:Oshii was never concerned with that though, the movie is set in Hong Kong because no real reason. Plus didn't Oshii direct Avalon? Why is he even allowed to speak about anything film-related ever since? Oshii's live-action stuff post Avalon is pretty weak, especially when he's supposedly given up on animation and wants to do more live action. I actually like his Kerberos movies, Stray Dog more than Red Spectacles despite their low budget: Red Spectacles you can tell they're using cap guns, while part of Oshii's love affair with Hong Kong comes with working on Stray Dog, because he went filming there to use actual guns. The fact that they're getting Beat Takeshi and only have him speak in Japanese frustrates me for some reason. I can't really put my finger on why it upsets me so. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 20:33
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Young Freud posted:Japanese Public Safety Agency is real organization akin to the FBI and CIA in both scope and role. For example, any time there's a communist demonstration, Public Safety's out there taking pictures and doing COINTELPRO (but not when the neo-fascists in their black vans and loudspeakers come out So the Major and crew could do a cross over film with James Bond, Ethan Hunt, Jack Reacher, Jason Borne, and the Kingsmen?
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Jul 4, 2016 21:44
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Tenzarin posted:So the Major and crew could do a cross over film with James Bond, Ethan Hunt, Jack Reacher, Jason Borne, and the Kingsmen? One of those other fictional organizations I usually refer to as Section 9 appropriate is CTU from 24, so why don't we throw in Jack Bauer in there as well?
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Jul 4, 2016 21:58
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Young Freud posted:One of those other fictional organizations I usually refer to as Section 9 appropriate is CTU from 24, so why don't we throw in Jack Bauer in there as well? I can't find it, but Jack Bauer is a loving awful "hero" (along with the rest of 24).
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Jul 4, 2016 22:25
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Young Freud posted:One of those other fictional organizations I usually refer to as Section 9 appropriate is CTU from 24, so why don't we throw in Jack Bauer in there as well? Ishikawa, open a socket!
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Jul 4, 2016 22:33
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Neo Rasa posted:Which is why I don't get why they don't just do a full US remake of the story like The Departed or The Magnificent Seven or whatever, her and the few other not Japanese people all happening to work in the same internal affairs department in a major Japanese city's police force in a sea of other Japanese characters is pretty stupid. Somebody could easily make a thought-provoking action/thriller and use tons of the same imagery and even borrow from the style. Purists like me could cry plagiarism, but most 14-30s out there probably aren't familiar enough with the source material to be upset. Pretty much if they took everything except the actual names and the Shirow Tachikoma tanks and those ridiculous guns with the clip behind the handle, it would be easy to make a strikingly similar movie. I just wish that it would live up to the 1995 movie but that will not happen.
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Jul 13, 2016 23:04
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Phone posted:As more and more information and discussion (such as white washing) continues, I'm moving towards hedging about minimizing its awfulness. It's shifted from how good the movie can be to how less awful it can be, which is super depressing since I love GITS. On the bright side there's still more good GitS then bad. The first two moves are good, the TV series is better than most anime and Arise is alright. Right now the original manga is the worst version of GitS IMHO.
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Jul 14, 2016 00:31
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phasmid posted:I thought about that too. The big reason must be that the 'GITS' brand name still has street cred, despite some of the lesser adaptations. The problem here is that they're obviously going to cash that in to make this movie, which may make its money back but seems unlikely to be a blockbuster. I still don't like Scarlett Johansen, but that has more to do with her being a lousy actress who is in bad movies all the time and has settled on one facial expression (although I do see why that would make her a convincing full-cyborg). FTFY. The "ridiculous guns with the clip behind the handle" Seburos and other future guns could use airsofts like most film/TV productions use. Outside of the Poseidon.jp models that frequently appear that ape Shirow's style or build off them, the Magpul Personal Defense Rifle, a PDW prototype that failed to take off and end up getting made into an airsoft gun due to demand, was pretty much someone trying to build a Seburo in real life. And I just ran into this thing today. So, yes, you can even use the ridiculous bullpup guns. That said, there's already a few out filmmakers out there. Neil Blomkamp I know is a big Shirow fan, even mentioned Briaeros from "Appleseed" as one of the inspirations for Tetra Vaal and Chappie and I would have loved if he was working on this instead. Improbable Lobster posted:On the bright side there's still more good GitS then bad. The first two moves are good, the TV series is better than most anime and Arise is alright. Right now the original manga is the worst version of GitS IMHO. gently caress you, GITS2: Man Machine Interface is the worst version. ARISE blows, too. I had an old post I made on Facebook I made after watching the second episode remind me why I disliked that show.
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Jul 14, 2016 00:55
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Young Freud posted:FTFY. The "ridiculous guns with the clip behind the handle" Seburos and other future guns could use airsofts like most film/TV productions use. Outside of the Poseidon.jp models that frequently appear that ape Shirow's style or build off them, the Magpul Personal Defense Rifle, a PDW prototype that failed to take off and end up getting made into an airsoft gun due to demand, was pretty much someone trying to build a Seburo in real life. And I just ran into this thing today. So, yes, you can even use the ridiculous bullpup guns. There's a lot wrong with Arise but at least it isn't the mangas. Those are so loving bad, it's kinda incredible that the original film was so good. IMHO the ranking is Ghost in the Shell (first film) 2nd GIG Innocence Stand Alone Complex ARISE/The New Movie Ghost in the Shell manga Ghost in the Shell 2
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Jul 14, 2016 04:25
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ARISE completely lost me after the episode where the military guy who was on trouble for slaughtering civilians turned out to be innocent because the civilians were actually all out to kill him, including the child. OORAH
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Jul 14, 2016 07:29
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Renoistic posted:ARISE completely lost me after the episode where the military guy who was on trouble for slaughtering civilians turned out to be innocent because the civilians were actually all out to kill him, including the child. OORAH Yeah, that's the one. Ripped right off from the Tommy Lee Jones-Samuel L. Jackson movie Rules Of Engagement. The other thing that majorly bugged me about that episode is Kusanagi blowing away Batou, Boma, and Ishikawa's fellow unit members. Sorry, you guys might be comrades and war buddies trying to free your mentor, but you aren't the main cast, so you're all disposable. And of course, none of them feel anything at all about that. Batou being spared makes sense since she met him in a previous episode, Boma and Ishikawa should have probably been killed during all that, since she has no idea who these guys are. And of course, Saito is a turncoat for no reason.
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Jul 14, 2016 08:09
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All of the technical stuff in ARISE is Real Good. All of the plot relevant stuff is Real Bad. It had a bunch of potential and Cornelius doing the music was rad, but man was it loving dumb. I'm hesitant to call GITS2 bad because it was trying to be a good mystery/thriller, but Batou's dog was the most compelling character in the movie.
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Jul 14, 2016 14:58
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Phone posted:I'm hesitant to call GITS2 bad because it was trying to be a good mystery/thriller, but Batou's dog was the most compelling character in the movie. Batou's dog really is the best part of that movie
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Jul 14, 2016 18:41
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The bloodhound is Oshii's trademark (they're his favorite dog breed). He tries to put on in every movie, IIRC. Remember the first film, during that pretty interlude where Motoko is looking at mannequins in shop windows and varying scenes with people walking around the city? Then you'll probably remember the part where there's a boat going under a canal bridge, and there's a bloodhound on the bridge looking down and wagging its tail forlornly. But I still think the best part of that movie (Innocence) is the shootout in the gambling den.
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Jul 15, 2016 20:30
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