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pointsofdata posted:So corbyn gets it wrong on both counts? Half heatedly campaigns for something he doesn't believe in, but what he actually wants is also dumb? Wrong or right is largely irrelevant but yes, he shouldn't campaign against something he doesn't believe in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVJZTxbCaKA The irony is was absolutely right in the first place.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:19
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Fans posted:He was in it for one thing and he got it, Nigel Farage gets to leave happy. Thus proving we live in an unfair and uncaring world and there is no god, or if there is they don't like us very much. God loves a chancer.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:21
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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CommieGIR posted:Now that Nigel Farage has burned down the house, he's moving out? His next project will be to spearhead a campaign to impose a stamp tax on the American colonies.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:21
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CoolCab posted:it's essentially saying "if there was no negative campaigning against a person I'd prefer them" because, yes, of course. that's why we have negative campaigning. Usually it's not your own party negatively campaigning against you though jiggerypokery posted:
You feel let down because other leftists decided Remain was the better option on balance, and didn't run a campaign for Leave? There actually were left-wing campaigns focusing on the things you wanted, but they didn't get any airtime. Even though Corbyn was campaigning for Remain, he did make these points as part of his analysis, and tried to separate those concerns from general xenophobia - he barely got any coverage either, to the point where people believe he wasn't really campaigning. And the rest of the Remain camp were working with the government, who caused these issues by enforcing austerity and scapegoating the EU and immigrants, so they sure as hell weren't going to backtrack on that and point the finger at themselves. Point is there are systemic reasons why racism was a factor and why it was never really looked at with any nuance, and why other narratives weren't given any real platform. The government blamed all the consequences of its policies on immigrants, the media gleefully jumped on board, groups like ukip pushed it even further, and people ended up believing it. When people (the same people pushing the lie, in Cameron's case) turn around and say 'actually no you're wrong' and their counterargument is 'you're saying these things because you're racist', obviously that doesn't suddenly change people's minds. That's also why it's hugely hypocritical for the PLP to blame Corbyn for not delivering a bigger Labour remain vote when a year ago they were pushing the exact same CONTROLS ON IMMIGRATION bullshit
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Jul 4, 2016 15:22
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V. Illych L. posted:tbh "the eu is shite but leaving is dumb" is not a position that's generally inconsistent with corbyn's ideology or previous statements, so idk why people are taking for granted that he's a secret euroskeptic or something Yeah I see no problem with that attitude. Probably because it's very close to what I feel too. This, incidentally, is also why it was so dumb in the Blairite years to basically dismantle the EU arm of the foreign office, rendering it relatively toothless. At one point we had one of the most influential negotiators in the EU and we were basically rendered helpless to change EU policy after that other than our PM stamping his foot and crying a whole lot until people gave in out of embarassment.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:22
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baka kaba posted:There actually were left-wing campaigns focusing on the things you wanted, but they didn't get any airtime. Even though Corbyn was campaigning for Remain, he did make these points as part of his analysis, and tried to separate those concerns from general xenophobia - he barely got any coverage either, to the point where people believe he wasn't really campaigning. Yeah honestly even the non-partisan media is somewhat to blame for this by running past any of those in order to watch Big Nige or BOZZA LEJURREND saying something ridiculous or offensive. Heck when Sturgeon dooped on Bozza at the debate the news cycle immediately dropped it and carried on with Nige.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:25
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https://twitter.com/achrisevans/status/749969917055799296 Turns out that Chris Evans has more savvy and class than Corbyn.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:25
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See also: the media in America giving near unlimited free ad space to the tiny handed orange baby clown man and then going "oh poo poo WHY IS HE SO POPULAR??"
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Jul 4, 2016 15:26
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I guess we'll call his tenure Flop Gear.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:26
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Pissflaps posted:https://twitter.com/achrisevans/status/749969917055799296 Do you think he should stand down?
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Jul 4, 2016 15:27
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Breath Ray posted:Blair took us into an unpopular war that destroyed him and the party so your analysis is slightly flawed He failed on phase 2. Actually managing to convince anyone, including the UN. I concede that accepting and admitting when you are wrong is a desirable trait and arguably Corbyn did, indeed, truly change his view in the last minute or at least accept that as someone else said 'The EU is poo poo, but leaving is dumb'. Either way he should have campaigned on what changed his mind rather than regurgitating the 'stronger together' Cameron crap.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:29
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Pissflaps posted:https://twitter.com/achrisevans/status/749969917055799296 .....yeah, doesn't have anything to do with the possible investigation into sexual impropriety
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Jul 4, 2016 15:29
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Pissflaps posted:https://twitter.com/achrisevans/status/749969917055799296 Did I miss the bit in the news where Corbyn may have sexually assaulted someone?
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Jul 4, 2016 15:29
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Pissflaps posted:https://twitter.com/achrisevans/status/749969917055799296 I think Corbyn has the right to stay on and if the other candidates don't like it they should form their own party.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:29
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Fans posted:Chuka Umunna manages to achieve the impossible and actually look like a tit compared to Ken Livingstone. Man he is impressively terrible at trying to force answers he likes huh
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Jul 4, 2016 15:29
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Breath Ray posted:I think Corbyn has the right to stay on and if the other candidates don't like it they should form their own party. Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:30
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Pissflaps posted:https://twitter.com/achrisevans/status/749969917055799296 Who do you think should replace him as leader of the Top Gear?
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Jul 4, 2016 15:31
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Pissflaps posted:Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do. So about that data
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Jul 4, 2016 15:31
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Pissflaps posted:Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do. As you prove every time you post.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:31
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Pissflaps posted:Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do. Well I think its the right thing to do then. If they have all these MPs and stuff it should be easy to become the new official opposition.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:31
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feedmegin posted:Who do you think should replace him as leader of the Top Gear? I don't care much tbh I haven't watched it for years. Maybe with the right presenter I could be persuaded.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:31
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jiggerypokery posted:He failed on phase 2. Actually managing to convince anyone, including the UN. I concede that accepting and admitting when you are wrong is a desirable trait and arguably Corbyn did, indeed, truly change his view in the last minute or at least accept that as someone else said 'The EU is poo poo, but leaving is dumb'. Either way he should have campaigned on what changed his mind rather than regurgitating the 'stronger together' Cameron crap. he did campaign on what changed his mind it was the idea of the tories wanting to use it as an excuse to slash workers rights and turn us into a tax haven
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Jul 4, 2016 15:32
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baka kaba posted:Usually it's not your own party negatively campaigning against you though Yup. It is a loving tragedy. Phoon posted:he did campaign on what changed his mind it was the idea of the tories wanting to use it as an excuse to slash workers rights and turn us into a tax haven I appreciate his campaign wasn't well covered but do you have any links of him explicitly saying "I changed my mind because...". If so, I'll concede completely and (other than his policy on trident) have absolutely no criticisms left. jiggerypokery fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 15:32
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BizarroAzrael posted:As you prove every time you post. 
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Jul 4, 2016 15:34
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I really think some of you are being a bit glass half empty about the referendum result.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:36
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it's how fascists always gain power, liberals scapegoat immigrants and foreigners for the problems they cause to deflect attention from themselves but never actually on it since they actually want/need immigration, fascists use this narrative to empower themselves since they actually would be willing to close borders/deport people etc, the liberals cant argue with them because they would have to admit its all bullshit thats why only socialists are good at stopping fascists - they have actual economic answers/solutions to the problems being blamed on immigration
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Jul 4, 2016 15:36
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Fans posted:Chuka Umunna manages to achieve the impossible and actually look like a tit compared to Ken Livingstone. Fuuuck if only this titan of rhetoric were leading the Labour party eh flaps
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Jul 4, 2016 15:37
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Breath Ray posted:Well I think its the right thing to do then. If they have all these MPs and stuff it should be easy to become the new official opposition. Good luck retaining those seats at the next election. And funding your new political party with a fraction of the member base and no union funding.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:37
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Breath Ray posted:I really think some of you are being a bit glass half empty about the referendum result. Yup, I remember saying a couple weeks ago either outcome would be loving sweet. When you think the Americans are likely to have to choose between Hillary 'Frank Underwood' Clinton and Donald 'Donald Trump' Trump, you start getting a bit of perspective on the difference between lose-lose and win-win.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:40
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jiggerypokery posted:Yup. It is a loving tragedy. hard to find exact quotes since putting anything about him and the referendum into google now just returns pages of the most recent bullshit but he was definitely asked repeatedly "why have you changed your mind" in interviews and gave that answer, his team coined the term "tory brexit" to try to win over lexit voters (which is where his campaign was aimed, along with the another europe is possible campaign)
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Jul 4, 2016 15:41
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Good luck retaining those seats at the next election. And funding your new political party with a fraction of the member base and no union funding. See also: the electoral history of the SDP. It's been tried before, didn't work out too well.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:43
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Breath Ray posted:I really think some of you are being a bit glass half empty about the referendum result. That's not true. Some of them are are breaking the glass and using it to menace a scared Polish woman.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:43
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Pissflaps posted:I don't care much tbh I haven't watched it for years. Maybe with the right presenter I could be persuaded. Why don't you like Chris Evans? Why do you think he should resign as the leader of the Labour Party?
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Jul 4, 2016 15:44
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qhat posted:It's funny and incredulous when someone states facts
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Jul 4, 2016 15:44
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namesake posted:They want to run the command deck (but they don't know who should be captain) or they're going to sink the whole ship. That gives me an idea what the labourers could do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp_wznCVHHs I would stay on the part with the captain, even though I think the holodeck is on the other part. This defriendum has been funny. I wonder what the result would have been if all the millions of people who were born in the other EU countries were allowed to vote like they normally are instead of just the Irish ones. People from Canada and Australia and Zimbabwe could vote so maybe that makes up for it, but I think the other people would care a lot! I would make it so if you live here you are allowed to vote. I think that would make everything easier to manage. The people who were born here but have lived on holiday for a very long time would have liked to vote too I think, and lets not forget the people in Gurney, New Jersey and The Isle of Manchester. People from the Rock starring Nicolas Cage got to vote though. A small few said to go away, which is like voting to not have a house I think. As well I would have had the person in charge of making the law for voting not be a euroskeptic so people would know everything was overboard (europe definitely exists by the way, I am in it at the moment and I've been to other parts of it too). Having to only need half of the people who turn up to decide something so important for everyone seems funny too. If I was the boss of elections I would make it so the number had to be quite big (In America Mr Obama needs to win two-thirds of a vote from the US congression if he wants to have two poos in one day). My sister was sad at the result. She makes science and lots of money for that comes from the EU. She has been testing a medicine to stop children from being dead (I mean you give it to them and they don't die, not that you bring them back to life. Though I bet someone is working on that somewhere). The money for her science came from France. I got some extra news on the same day as the counting of the votes. It was from the new Iain Duncan Smith (not for long I bet!). I was being given money to stay alive because of my disabilities and they wanted to change its name (I have two or three disabilities, no one is sure and it might depend on if you think there are two carts. They know what one of them is, it was in my jeans when I was born). They changed the money from IBS to ESA. They changed the rules too and I had to take an exam (I don't know why they keep testing things you have forever, it seems like a waste of time). Now there are two clubs to go in, one where they say they look after you and one where they make you do things like go to interviews and try to get a job (I thought there was a separate money with different letters for this). They said I should go in the job club because I was disabled but not disabled enough to be disabled, which didn't make much sense to me. I don't think the new letters are very good, I won't be able to do the things they say I have to do because one of my disabilities is that I can't talk or go outside. I don't think that would work at an interview! They made the money less too. They said there was a top-up amount so it would stay the same but the amount wasn't enough to be the same as before. It was to the amount I used to get when they accidentally thought I had a lot of money when I didn't. It took five years to get them to believe and put the money to where the law says I need to live on. The ESA form they wanted filled in was sent back two years ago, maybe they think it's still then. Once before when I had to take an exam to keep getting IBS, I scored nothing! They stopped sending money and I was pretty worried I don't mind telling you! The letter said I could ask them to think again so my mum wrote to them (I'm not good at writing I bet you saw!). They must be very busy because it took a whole year and then I had to go on trial! It was very quick there though, it took even less time than the exam. There was a judge there and a doctor, which had me worried because The Department for Work don't like doctors. They don't believe the letters they write, even though doctors are experts about being poorly. They believed this one though. I was in and out in a jiffy, they stopped counting half way because it was already enough points and they are busy. The ESA letter says I can ask them to think again too (you would think they would give it a second thought to begin with), but things have changed since last time. Once they have thought again and said no you have to tell the court you want to be put on trial (but you don't really, that's silly). The trials have been joined with the ones for murderers too which is a poke in the eye! I know I'm a worthless scrounger but you don't have to rub it in. I was looking at the numbers they put into Excel to see what clubs people go into. I was thinking hardly anyone gets put in the job club and I wondered why I was. Then I realised the numbers are a year out of date, silly me! They're only supposed to be nine months out of date (you can make a brand new person in that time) but they forgot to send the ones due a month ago. They sent a sorry letter with a few numbers, it said 2% of people like me are put in the job club. This was from ages ago though, I wonder what it is now. I suppose we'll find out next year! I'm not very impressed with The Department for Work's numbers. They squash them to the nearest hundred, even when they're less than fifty, so they go to nothing! That seems like extra work to me but then I'm a lazy skiving bastard. It's annoying having to put the password in too if you just want to make a quick graph and you want a new page. It's usually "AAAABABBBBAJ" but don't tell anyone (It looks like they're about as good with letters as they are with numbers!). There's not much interesting in the secret pages but all their excel sentences are a bit silly: pre:=IF(VLOOKUP(CONCATENATE($G$7,$A17),'Table 1a rounded for pivot'!$A$2:$Q$5120,4,FALSE)=0,"-",
VLOOKUP(CONCATENATE($G$7,$A17),'Table 1a rounded for pivot'!$A$2:$Q$5120,4,FALSE))
They released a brand new numbers file for the first time two weeks ago. It's for the decisions they make when you ask them to think again. I would have thought they would have started giving numbers when they started thinking in 2013. There aren't many numbers in it, you need to do extra sums to find the numbers you want and you have to get numbers from the other files and from files that are at the Ministry of Just Ice (I like their numbers better, hardly any of them end with "00" and they can count all the way down to 1. There are an awful lot of them to wade through though, they seem to do a lot there). I suppose I will ask them to think again. Excel thinks they will probably say no and I will have to ask for a trial. There's even a chance they will not just say no but say "Get on your bike! You get nothing!" (I haven't got a bike, I can't ride them anymore). The chance is 3% says Excel but it's probably wrong. It is always popping up a box saying my maths sentence is wrong when I haven't even finished writing it yet. 3 is twice as much as all of everyone, why would they say that more to people they already think should be in a club but want to change which one? Especially when they already said on your bike to people not in a club. I wonder if Excel will count as one of my disabilities. I'm truly sorry. This has been the state of my internal monologue since the referendum and I had to get it out of my head.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:45
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UrbicaMortis posted:I wish independence days worked both ways. We'd get so many days off and frankly I'd rather be engaged in whatever passive-aggressive celebration the country would devise to celebrate the yanks leaving than sitting at work. As a US citizen I approve of this idea.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:45
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Good luck retaining those seats at the next election. And funding your new political party with a fraction of the member base and no union funding. Oh absolutely. The membership has issued its instructions and we must respect them! But I still think they should let Corbyn road test his ideas. Crazy that they all walked out after the referendum. Think that was a real gift to the Tories.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:46
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There is definitely going to be a challenger to Corbyn on Friday. Definitely. https://twitter.com/Peston/status/749979043370598400
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Jul 4, 2016 15:54
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Fans posted:Chuka Umunna manages to achieve the impossible and actually look like a tit compared to Ken Livingstone. Yup, he is going to get trolled incessantly. Can't argue with that.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:55
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Alex Salmon suggest the PLP coup is designed to silence Corbyn after Chilcot. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-chilcot-report-latest-news-alex-salmond-a7116926.html
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Jul 4, 2016 15:56
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