|
Virago is a twin and rebel is a single. Everything else is irrelevant, including the power difference, and is generally the kind of stuff only learners/people who don't ride obsess over because you realise when you ride a larger bike that none of the 250 dick measuring stuff matters worth a drat and as long as it's learnable and useable it really makes no difference what it says on paper. They're functionally identical besides the engine. So it depends if you want the kudos (such as it is) of a v-twin cruiser or are happy with a single. I would lean toward the rebel purely from a hassle standpoint what with having less valves, less spark plugs etc but really just either toss a coin or test ride both and see which one is more likeable. Having worked on a virago 250 recently I would 100% go for the honda.
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2016 03:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 23:17 |
|
|
Rebel is actually a parallel twin.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2016 03:50
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:Rebel is actually a parallel twin. My mind is legitimately blown, holy poo poo. How did they manage to get that little power out of a twin? I'm now 100% in the virago camp, christ that's terrible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2016 03:57
|
|
|
The Rebel (and CB250)'s engine has a 360-degree crankshaft, that might have something to do with it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2016 05:17
|
|
|
The difference in power between the two is so slim she wouldn't notice the difference (at least not until she's been riding for a while). Same with the top speed, if she's just riding around town she won't top out either bike for a while. Definitely have her sit on a v-star and make sure she likes the seating position and where the footpegs are, I think they're farther forward on the v-star than the rebel. I really doubt she'd go wrong on either one. Have her sit on both, find the best prices for each and flip a coin- she'll probably make up her mind while it's in midair and I doubt she'd regret it either way. I always wanted a nighthawk 250 before I started riding, but the seat might be too high for her. Same engine as the rebel though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2016 14:41
|
|
|
Nighthawk 250 was my first bike, eight years ago and based entirely on recommendations of this thread. IIRC I paid $1000 cash and a Ruger P89 pistol to a guy in Hyde Park, and promptly crashed into a bush (no damage to any party involved) trying to make my first u-turn. In retrospect a TW200 would've been an even awesomer first bike. For my friend, it does seem Rebel and Virago/V-Star are much of a muchness, it'll probably just come down to whichever one we first find a good deal on and she likes it when she sits on it. Had an odd cultural moment trying to explain to her that no, she can't get one in green because that's Kawasaki's color and Honda's color is red, so a Rebel will have to be in red or black and if she loves it to death for a year or more maybe she can look into painting it hunter green or something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2016 21:04
|
|
|
Slide Hammer posted:The Rebel (and CB250)'s engine has a 360-degree crankshaft, that might have something to do with it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2016 23:58
|
|
|
Is a 360 bad, or what's the significance?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 00:39
|
|
|
A 360-degree crankshaft means that the pistons both move up and down at the same time. Compare this to a 180-degreea crankshaft, where one goes up as the other goes down, or a 90/270 degree crank where one piston follows the other almost immediately, but not in sync. The power delivery of each engine is slightly different, but the most obvious difference is the exhaust note. 360s go BANG-pause-BANG-pause (like a thumper) 270s go BABANG-pause-pause-pause (like a v-twin) 180s go BANG-BANG-pause-pause (like...a fart? I dunno)
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 02:07
|
|
|
Fuckin trackbikes, lol. Ask for a VIN on an untitled trackbike, get "why do u want the vin" back. After some back and forth, "well my buddy marked it as 'lost' (lmao ok, that's totes a thing that exists instead of stolen) in 2012 to get insurance money so the bike still counts as hot" get the gently caress outta here
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 04:28
|
|
|
M42 posted:Fuckin trackbikes, lol. Ask for a VIN on an untitled trackbike, get "why do u want the vin" back. After some back and forth, "well my buddy marked it as 'lost' (lmao ok, that's totes a thing that exists instead of stolen) in 2012 to get insurance money so the bike still counts as hot" get the gently caress outta here Yeah, because receiving stolen goods isn't a loving crime.  gently caress that guy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 04:51
|
|
|
M42 posted:Fuckin trackbikes, lol. Apparently same for trail-bikes, as with the TW200 I was trying to buy (prior to the one I ended up buying) the seller was all "I bought it 20 years ago but had trouble getting the title transferred, so didn't bother since I'm just riding it in the dirt anyway."
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 05:09
|
|
|
M42 posted:Fuckin trackbikes, lol. Ask for a VIN on an untitled trackbike, get "why do u want the vin" back. After some back and forth, "well my buddy marked it as 'lost' (lmao ok, that's totes a thing that exists instead of stolen) in 2012 to get insurance money so the bike still counts as hot" get the gently caress outta here hahahahaha.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 05:12
|
|
|
Sagebrush posted:360s go BANG-pause-BANG-pause (like a thumper) Wouldn't it actually sound more like a two stroke thumper? Since there's a detonation every rotation
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 09:39
|
|
|
Each of those "units" is a half-rotation, and the key is that the exhaust pulses are evenly spaced. I suppose technically it's not exactly the same sound as a thumper, but it's closer to that than it is to a 2-stroke. A Triumph Bonneville has a 360-degree crank, so go look up the sound of those. e: it's also possible to build a big-bang 360 twin, where both cylinders fire at the same time. That would be indistinguishable from a thumper, but iirc only a handful of pre-ww2 bikes ever used that design. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 16:02
|
|
|
all the NVH of a thumper, times two!
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 16:24
|
|
|
Speaking of boring ptwins, here's a good deal for someone in my area (nobody): https://eauclaire.craigslist.org/mcy/5666568456.html 
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2016 15:28
|
|
|
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/mcy/5665357782.html I'm thinking about taking a gamble on this. How easy would it be for me to clean the carbs myself, without a garage?
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2016 21:10
|
|
|
Not hard. Lift the tank, remove the airbox, unhook throttle cables, loosen carb boots, pull carb out, place everything but the carbs back under the tank and bolt it back down. Clean the carbs in your kitchen.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2016 21:12
|
|
|
Ok, this is probably a good deal then, right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
Uh yeah
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2016 23:07
|
|
|
In case you weren't sure, everyone is trolling you. Messing with carbs on a late model four cylinder with no experience is a major undertaking and will probably end badly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 01:12
|
|
|
yolo, also make sure you remove each one from the rack (I did this once, don't do this) BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jul 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
It's never "just the carbs"
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 01:54
|
|
|
The 599 has probably the worst, most time consuming carbs of, like, any model. Or so I hear.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 02:30
|
|
|
It's not that bad. Just get all your o-rings first, a new set of needle valves and float bowl gaskets, a bucket of carb dip, a couple aluminum trays, and about 8 little containers for jets and hardware. Oh, and a JIS screwdriver and some replacement hardware because you'll strip out all the JIS cheesehead screws. And a manometer or some vacuum gauges so you can synch it after. Then go hog wild. Unracking them isn't terrible, but you'll need new fuel rail seals if you do. I thought Dutymode has been around for a while and is not new. HenryJLittlefinger fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jul 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 06:03
|
|
|
Disassemble and clean them one at a time, it gives you 3 shots for getting it right. Probably needs nothing but the idle jets jammed clear with a wire. Rev works at a bike shop and doesn't see any of the success stories so he's pretty pessimistic about these things. They're basically Honda F3 carbs which no one would bat an eye at you buying to fix up. Offer 1500 and enjoy your relatively simple project.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 07:14
|
|
|
Z3n posted:Disassemble and clean them one at a time, it gives you 3 shots for getting it right. Probably needs nothing but the idle jets jammed clear with a wire. I'm with you on everything but the wire, that's just savage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 10:31
|
|
|
Slavvy posted:I'm with you on everything but the wire, that's just savage. it made me cringe when i read it
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 13:05
|
|
|
Replace the jets if you're a person of delicate constitution. But the pilot jets in those are brass and deforming the hole in the pilot jet without using a press or a drill is basically impossible. If they're varnished up particularly badly, you can soak them for ages in carb cleaner or whatever else and the plug of varnished gas will never dissolve. Mechanical action is the only way to be sure. Bikes with oddball carbs you have to be more careful but this is the typical overbuild Honda - a wire through the pilot jet is the best way for a new mechanic to be sure it actually got cleaned. Hell, you can even do it without removing the jets, which a new mechanic is likely to strip due to poor technique or using the wrong screwdriver.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 16:23
|
|
|
Worst case scenario, mechanic quoted me $350 for a carb rebuild, I'll see if he'll bite at $1500.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 16:43
|
|
|
My jet cleaning process goes like this: spray with carb cleaner, blast with compressed air. Boil in a mixture of lemon juice and water for an hour or so, blast with compressed air. They come out looking like brand new brass.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 17:13
|
|
|
Gorson posted:My jet cleaning process goes like this: spray with carb cleaner, blast with compressed air. Boil in a mixture of lemon juice and water for an hour or so, blast with compressed air. They come out looking like brand new brass. More importantly though, how do they taste? Mix the left overs with vodka and take a shot?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 17:28
|
|
|
Coredump posted:More importantly though, how do they taste? Mix the left overs with vodka and take a shot? Vodka, lemon-infused jets, ice = gimlet!
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
Gimlets are made with gin you loving savage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 17:57
|
|
|
Z3n posted:Replace the jets if you're a person of delicate constitution. Yeah, guitar strings are key. And you can't damage the jets unless you're just really jamming it in there or working it hard. Dutymode posted:Worst case scenario, mechanic quoted me $350 for a carb rebuild, I'll see if he'll bite at $1500. See, the problem is that it's not a job that's really worth $350. It takes some time, but the hardest thing about the whole process is making sure you don't lose anything. I bet honda599.com has a good walkthrough written by one of the forum old guys, complete with pictures, part numbers, and model-specific tricks so you don't have to work all that poo poo out on your own. A lot of I4 bike-specific forums also have a user or two that has gone out and bought all the o-rings and bulk and sells the complete set of what you need. If you do it yourself, you'll know how to troubleshoot most carb problems that might come up in the future, too. So paying a shop $350 to maybe do it right if you're lucky turns into another $350 down the road when you don't know how to fix a $10 problem yourself. It's a fiddly process, but probably way less fiddly and time-consuming than painting miniatures or doing Lego sets or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 18:12
|
|
|
TheFonz posted:Gimlets are made with gin you loving savage. Must be a geographical thing, I was a server for 6 years and around here everyone gets vodka. Just don't put whiskey in our Old Fashioned's, or there will be a brouhaha 
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
Gorson posted:Just don't put whiskey in our Old Fashioned's, or there will be a brouhaha What kind of loving heathen are you?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
HenryJLittlefinger posted:See, the problem is that it's not a job that's really worth $350. It takes some time, but the hardest thing about the whole process is making sure you don't lose anything. I bet honda599.com has a good walkthrough written by one of the forum old guys, complete with pictures, part numbers, and model-specific tricks so you don't have to work all that poo poo out on your own. A lot of I4 bike-specific forums also have a user or two that has gone out and bought all the o-rings and bulk and sells the complete set of what you need. If you do it yourself, you'll know how to troubleshoot most carb problems that might come up in the future, too. So paying a shop $350 to maybe do it right if you're lucky turns into another $350 down the road when you don't know how to fix a $10 problem yourself. I agree, the shop would be worst-case scenario, if I take it apart and can't get it right. Probably doesn't matter, though, the guy balked at $1600.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 19:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 23:17 |
|
|
Gorson posted:Must be a geographical thing, I was a server for 6 years and around here everyone gets vodka. Just don't put whiskey in our Old Fashioned's, or there will be a brouhaha Just like a martini it should have vodka prepended to the name to indicate you have ruined it by removing the gin.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2016 19:20
|
|
