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Antares posted:Wasn't that also accompanied by a raft of promised political concessions, and not just Ed and Dave holding hands and agreeing the sky will fall. no it was probably the holding hands and not the concessions and threats that did it
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Jul 8, 2016 17:53
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it's interesting how a loser and failure like Neil Kinnock (who's only achievements in life are being Thatchers' toilet paper and stopping Tony Benn from reaching his potential) is busy pontificating about 'his party' and how un-electable other people are. Truly the hero the PLP deserve. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jul 8, 2016 |
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Jul 8, 2016 18:00
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Saint Isaias Boner posted:a claim made repeatedly by the Guardian is that Corbyn's refusal to share a platform with Cameron harmed the vote because voters really dig it when politicians do that. I've never seen any evidence that anyone likes it when political opponents link arms. Might as well make a banner that says "WE'RE ALL THE SAME" and straight up confirm what people say all the time anyway.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:05
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Antares posted:Wasn't that also accompanied by a raft of promised political concessions, and not just Ed and Dave holding hands and agreeing the sky will fall. Best of which in hindsight was "Scotland you gotta stay, if you leave the UK that means you'll leave the EU  "
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Jul 8, 2016 18:06
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the entire argument re: corbyn and the referendum is based on the traditional labour heartlands voting leave, this contradicts the poll of labour voters voting remain because so many voters in the heartlands were lost over the blair years, some to ukip, many to apathy ofc losing the heartlands is now corbyn's fault, and the way to win the votes was to campaign with blair, such is the overwhelming power of the "corbyn bad" narrative
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Jul 8, 2016 18:08
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Al-Saqr posted:it's interesting how a loser and failure like Neil Kinnock (who's only achievements in life are being Thatchers' toilet paper and stopping Tony Benn from reaching his potential) is busy pontificating about 'his party' and how un-electable other people are. I believe you mean "bald welsh git", or "creiteous buffoon". Seriously bring back Spitting Image.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:37
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Crowsbeak posted:I believe you mean "bald welsh git", or "creiteous buffoon". Seriously bring back Spitting Image. The Welsh cannot be allowed to rule. So sayeth the Pollythingy
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Jul 8, 2016 18:39
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Regarde Aduck posted:The Welsh cannot be allowed to rule. So sayeth the Pollythingy Frankly your best King was Welsh.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:43
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Phoon posted:the entire argument re: corbyn and the referendum is based on the traditional labour heartlands voting leave, this contradicts the poll of labour voters voting remain because so many voters in the heartlands were lost over the blair years, some to ukip, many to apathy It's not even about losing voters, Labour itself explicitly took positions and ran a campaign based on 'immigration is a problem and we need to control it'. And everyone was aware that being an EU member means you don't get to do that. Ed, gawd bless im, stood up in those debates and told people he wasn't going to offer a referendum because he believed the UK should stay in the EU, and he took a lot of stick for it - including from Labour supporters, because so many people saw leaving as the only solution So really the Labour position has been 'we need to do something about immigration' but also 'we shouldn't leave the EU', and those are contradictory stances. Labour voters were effectively being asked to choose one or the other, and unsurprisingly a lot of them voted for 'we need to do something'. Most of the Remain campaign seemed like it wanted to ignore this, and just make a simplistic 'EU great! Leaving bad!' argument which nobody bought and which didn't add any significant weight to that side of the immigration/EU split. Corbyn had to go into that situation and try and walk back the 'immigration is a problem' public and Labour narrative while making a realistic and thoughtful case for EU membership, and try and shift the overall balance. That's a reaaaaaally big expectation, especially with Labour's natural support lying in so many areas and demographics hit hardest by austerity and economic problems. Honestly the fact Labour pulled in a Remain vote so close to the Lib Dems looks like a resounding success to me. Seems a lot of Corbyn's critics are under the impression that people who voted Labour in 2015 would just do whatever the party tells them to
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Jul 8, 2016 18:49
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Crowsbeak posted:Frankly your best King was Welsh. I would certainly hope so.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:49
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It's great how the whole Westminister bubble and the UK media enthusiastically launched into a "Corbyn has lost the confidence of the PLP and MUST now resign: it's only a matter of time!" only to be thwarted by Corbyn going: "...No." I look forward to Angela Eagle telling us that she'll definitely be standing for the leadership after this weekend; this time she means it, really! On a more serious note, it's depressing to see how the largest surge into a political party since WW2 has been met by the Proper, Electable politicians with a sign and a roll of the eyes, like its some irritating inconvenience rather than a wonderful validation of Corbyn's politics. I'm quite sure the Blairites would much prefer a shrunken and compliant membership, who stuffs envelopes, delivers leaflets and otherwise keeps their mouths shut to the enormous and vibrant Labour party that they in fact have.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:55
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It would be really funny if the massive surge in Labour membership lead to a crushing victory in a GE. I really do want to see how much difference it actually makes having labour with more members than everyone else combined.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:57
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Crowsbeak posted:Frankly your best King was Welsh. Why do you love Henry VII?
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Jul 8, 2016 18:57
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OwlFancier posted:It would be really funny if the massive surge in Labour membership lead to a crushing victory in a GE. Hope is a mistake. Because gerrymandering and Scotland fucks everything unless Labour are willing to go into coalition with the SNP.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:59
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Taear posted:Why do you love Henry VII? He was a good king. Put in place the measures that allowed prosperity in the 16th century, the father of the navy. Also had a sensible foreign policy.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:03
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The only good king is a dead king
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Jul 8, 2016 19:07
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Unless the increase in membership actually gets out and help, by knocking on doors, phonebanking, etc. Not much, beyond the increased income. And I haven't seen that many of the new members out campaigning (if you get an email about canvassing in your area: go, the people are lovely and friendly and it does make you feel like you're doing something to help.)
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Jul 8, 2016 19:13
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^^^ Increased income may be enough. One of the biggest stumbling blocks for Labour of late has been the massive purse of the Tories, increased funding could let them compete a bit better.JeremoudCorbynejad posted:The only good king is a dead king An entirely accurate statement, as all our kings are dead.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:14
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Can't decide if I prefer French or Russian solutions to royals.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:15
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Jedit posted:An entirely accurate statement, as all our kings are dead.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:16
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All kings are lovely, so the best one can only be the one who has the best king named Shakespeare play so our best king was Henry IV but only the first part of his reign.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:19
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Jedit posted:An entirely accurate statement, as all our kings are dead. Until the Queen dies.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:19
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Zephro posted:Britain as a whole has an enormous current account deficit, of around 7% of GDP (in fact apparently it's a record and it's never been higher in British history: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35931968). In other words we import far more than we export. That's not actually that valuable a measure with our tertiary/quaternary-based economy - writing and selling iPhone apps and letting Russian oligarchs use London rental property for money laundering have very different effects on the economy than digging up rocks and turning them into steam engines and selling them around the world for gold and silver.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:34
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That's not actually that valuable a measure with our tertiary/quaternary-based economy - writing and selling iPhone apps and letting Russian oligarchs use London rental property for money laundering have very different effects on the economy than digging up rocks and turning them into steam engines and selling them around the world for gold and silver.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:36
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In fact the ONS chart is really striking
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Jul 8, 2016 19:38
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:The only good king is a dead king Monarchy is generally pretty bad, but then the idea of republicanism as we think of it would have been hard to achieve then.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:39
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I dunno, I don't think I'd mind too much if Liz decided she was in charge again. She'd surely be more compassionate than May or Leadsom.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:41
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Jakabite posted:I dunno, I don't think I'd mind too much if Liz decided she was in charge again. She'd surely be more compassionate than May or Leadsom. In principle I'm against the monarchy and hereditary positions and stuff. In practice the Lords have been the only ones keeping things remotely sane lately, so I'm not sure I could really oppose giving Brenda a shot.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:43
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It really is staggering just how quickly things are falling apart. It was poo poo before but now it's like we're in some sort of accelerated time line of gently caress. It's a good time to not be in the UK in any case. Hola from Juarez my doomed compatriots.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:49
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nothing to seehere posted:Unless the increase in membership actually gets out and help, by knocking on doors, phonebanking, etc. Not much, beyond the increased income. And I haven't seen that many of the new members out campaigning (if you get an email about canvassing in your area: go, the people are lovely and friendly and it does make you feel like you're doing something to help.) This is the problem I have with canvassing: in my local area it owuld mostly be preaching to the converted. How does that actually help?
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Jul 8, 2016 19:50
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thespaceinvader posted:This is the problem I have with canvassing: in my local area it owuld mostly be preaching to the converted. How does that actually help? you can volunteer in nearby, non-converted areas e: at the moment momentum is running phonebanks presumably to tell people that Corbyn is pretty spiffy, you can do that kind of thing as well
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Jul 8, 2016 19:52
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Jakabite posted:It really is staggering just how quickly things are falling apart. It was poo poo before but now it's like we're in some sort of accelerated time line of gently caress. It's a good time to not be in the UK in any case. Hola from Juarez my doomed compatriots. yes mexico is definitely better than the uk
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Jul 8, 2016 19:52
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Jedit posted:^^^ Increased income may be enough. One of the biggest stumbling blocks for Labour of late has been the massive purse of the Tories, increased funding could let them compete a bit better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria 
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Jul 8, 2016 19:54
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thespaceinvader posted:Hope is a mistake. This Gerry Mandering sounds like a right oval office.
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Jul 8, 2016 20:05
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Jose posted:yes mexico is definitely better than the uk You'll be saying that Colombia isn't better than the UK next, I personally think I will be moving up in the world.
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Jul 8, 2016 20:08
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I want him to be King and his dachshund to be Duke of Cambridge.Jose posted:yes mexico is definitely better than the uk
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Jul 8, 2016 20:12
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Zephro posted:The ONS numbers include services and also income and investments. Yeah but that's what I mean, the current account deficit really doesn't actually tell us much of anything about the health of our economy because the economy itself is so completely different from what it was supposed to measure. With free-floating currencies it's more or less completely irrelevant. Well unless some loving idiot puts a massive shock into the currency markets by torching the 5th-largest economy in the world just to shut up a couple of swivel-eyed lunatics in his own party and to placate the sort of person that thinks hearing a Slavic language being spoken is a sign of the end times.
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Jul 8, 2016 20:14
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thespaceinvader posted:This is the problem I have with canvassing: in my local area it owuld mostly be preaching to the converted. How does that actually help? Yea I also don't really feel connected to my local area. But it isn't easy to go and canvas in other places.
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Jul 8, 2016 20:14
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That's not actually that valuable a measure with our tertiary/quaternary-based economy - writing and selling iPhone apps and letting Russian oligarchs use London rental property for money laundering have very different effects on the economy than digging up rocks and turning them into steam engines and selling them around the world for gold and silver.
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Jul 8, 2016 20:15
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https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/751445720310353920 uh-oh spaghettioes
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