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QuarkJets posted:And I assume the crisis actor people have already gotten a theory out about this being a false flag operation by the government, using paid actors in order to take away everyone's fireworks (the first step toward making it more acceptable to take away everyone's guns, obvs) Nothing is to small to be a false flag. There is a whole thread on the Icke forums about attempting to prove that minor bus crashes, like a bus getting stuck under a bridge or mounting a pavement and hitting a lamp post, are all false flags using crisis actors, fake doctors, the works. Also a powerstation in Didcot in Oxfordshire was being rigged for demolition and some of the explosives went off causing a partial collapse. One guy died. This to was a false flag. It's baffling to think what kind of world these people inhabit.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:41
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Illuminti posted:Nothing is to small to be a false flag. There is a whole thread on the Icke forums about attempting to prove that minor bus crashes, like a bus getting stuck under a bridge or mounting a pavement and hitting a lamp post, are all false flags using crisis actors, fake doctors, the works. Also a powerstation in Didcot in Oxfordshire was being rigged for demolition and some of the explosives went off causing a partial collapse. One guy died. This to was a false flag. It reminds me of the tendency for pre-modern peoples to assign conscious spiritual agency to inanimate objects or natural events. You hear thunder and lightning in the distance and your instinctive reaction is to reason that there's some kind of intelligent force commanding it. You suffer a miscarriage and instantly think that a malign spirit or curse is the cause. Your crops fail and you remember that argument you had with your neighbor: surely they are to blame. People seem to be hard wired to think that significant events must have directed by some intelligent force. So it probably shouldn't surprise us that certain kinds of people will apply this logic random incidents out of modern life. That's essentially how the entire "gang stalking" community thinks - "this guy who passed me just now was wearing my favorite band's T-shirt, it can't be chance, there must be an evil
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Jul 8, 2016 21:11
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Helsing posted:It reminds me of the tendency for pre-modern peoples to assign conscious spiritual agency to inanimate objects or natural events. You hear thunder and lightning in the distance and your instinctive reaction is to reason that there's some kind of intelligent force commanding it. You suffer a miscarriage and instantly think that a malign spirit or curse is the cause. Your crops fail and you remember that argument you had with your neighbor: surely they are to blame. The greatest trick Loki ever pulled was inventing conspiracy theorists to misattribute his activities. 
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Jul 8, 2016 21:48
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Helsing posted:It reminds me of the tendency for pre-modern peoples to assign conscious spiritual agency to inanimate objects or natural events. You hear thunder and lightning in the distance and your instinctive reaction is to reason that there's some kind of intelligent force commanding it. You suffer a miscarriage and instantly think that a malign spirit or curse is the cause. Your crops fail and you remember that argument you had with your neighbor: surely they are to blame. Humans look for patterns first off. We look for them based on pre-conceived knowledge. If you're told "the gods did it " your whole life for things you don't understand then everything you don't understand is caused by gods. Why do crops grow? We made the crop god happy. Better keep her happy or she'll curse your crops! So you perform rituals and make sacrifices. Most years you have enough of a harvest because if agriculture weren't reliable nobody would have kept doing it. Then over 200 years or so of making sacrifices to the crop goddess and most of the time getting good results it looks like there is, in fact, such a thing as a crop goddess and she'll help you out if you keep her happy. Then somebody says you're stupid and the rituals are meaningless. Hey, in the valley two Rivers over they don't have a crop goddess and their crops are fine but you KNOW that person is wrong and will never be convinced. See we get this one thing here they don't and that thing tastes real good so hah proof of crop goddess! Conspiracy nuts ride confirmation bias into the same mindset. They believe that there is a shadowy illuminati behind everything. If there wasn't why do they keep finding evidence everywhere they look? They sacrifice time to the conspiracy god who rewards them with The Truth.
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Jul 8, 2016 23:52
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The latest episode of Monster Talk, a cryptozoology podcast from Skeptic/The Skeptics Society, is on the mindset behind conspiracy theories. The guest is Rob Brotherton, a researcher/author on the psychology of belief in conspiracy theories. It discusses the study on people believing in multiple mutually exclusive conspiracies that gets brought up in here a bit in a bit more detail than we usually get into since the study was done by a friend of Brotherton.
A Fancy 400 lbs fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jul 9, 2016 |
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Jul 9, 2016 20:26
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Humans look for patterns first off. We look for them based on pre-conceived knowledge. If you're told "the gods did it " your whole life for things you don't understand then everything you don't understand is caused by gods. Are all conspiracy theorists, conspiracy nuts? Don't you find that offensive to actual nuts? Aren't conspiracy theorists trivialising the mental health challenges that real certified nuts face each day of their lives? Shouldn't we be asking how can we empower nuts to take back their voice, which has been usurped by the bickering of conspiracy-splaining and mental-illness-splaining cis people? Real nuts have problems like being Napoleon or Cleopatra, and they can't just back away from youtube to escape that reality. It's time to craft a different pigeonhole for conspiracy theorists, and let nuts speak for themselves, ok? Besides, what's so crazy about being weirded out by those 'innocuous patterns' like the Blink 182 album cover with the traffic lights, where it has what looks like an airplane, the twin towers and a jacket with a "G" (masonic) in there, pre 9-11? And that 1+8=9 and +2 to that makes 11?
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Jul 9, 2016 21:41
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slavatuvs posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpwSAc2e51U That's not new. Here's my summary of the Freep thread on the topic from that thread: quote:My favorite one personally was the guy talking about how the "IED" was around where the homosexuals hang out in central park (wonder how he came by THAT information, by the by), just kinda halfheartedly trying to jam one more hated group in there, so that they can all together reach the obvious conclusion:
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Jul 9, 2016 21:45
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Deep Thought posted:Are all conspiracy theorists, conspiracy nuts? Don't you find that offensive to actual nuts? Aren't conspiracy theorists trivialising the mental health challenges that real certified nuts face each day of their lives? Shouldn't we be asking how can we empower nuts to take back their voice, which has been usurped by the bickering of conspiracy-splaining and mental-illness-splaining cis people? Real nuts have problems like being Napoleon or Cleopatra, and they can't just back away from youtube to escape that reality. It's time to craft a different pigeonhole for conspiracy theorists, and let nuts speak for themselves, ok? source your quotes crazy man
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Jul 9, 2016 21:55
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Deep Thought posted:Are all conspiracy theorists, conspiracy nuts? Don't you find that offensive to actual nuts? Aren't conspiracy theorists trivialising the mental health challenges that real certified nuts face each day of their lives? Shouldn't we be asking how can we empower nuts to take back their voice, which has been usurped by the bickering of conspiracy-splaining and mental-illness-splaining cis people? Real nuts have problems like being Napoleon or Cleopatra, and they can't just back away from youtube to escape that reality. It's time to craft a different pigeonhole for conspiracy theorists, and let nuts speak for themselves, ok? Numerology is one of the most interesting conspiracy theory things because it's so much like playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, except then they take those relationships and assign serious significant meaning to them where none exists
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Jul 9, 2016 21:55
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QuarkJets posted:Numerology is one of the most interesting conspiracy theory things because it's so much like playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, except then they take those relationships and assign serious significant meaning to them where none exists It's also interesting because it's ancient. Numerology has driven more irrational behavior throughout history than a dozen David Ickes.
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Jul 9, 2016 22:12
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Jazerus posted:It's also interesting because it's ancient. Numerology has driven more irrational behavior throughout history than a dozen David Ickes. It's basically cargo cult maths.
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Jul 9, 2016 23:46
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Literally The Worst posted:source your quotes crazy man That 'G' is a motif in freemasonry? Self-evident I thought, it's in a lot of those square and compass designs. QuarkJets posted:Numerology is one of the most interesting conspiracy theory things because it's so much like playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, except then they take those relationships and assign serious significant meaning to them where none exists I don't think the idea that significance lies in numbers is any less crazy than putting it in the idea of theoretical 'God' particles. If the world can be thought of as governed by numbers in the form of dates, time and measurements, then it's possible for significance to arise in that framework, isn't it? Even if not, it makes work for the mind to notice numberological significance, and if that does not become an obession, it may be more helpful to the mind than wandering and distracting thoughts about good video game design. blowfish posted:It's basically cargo cult maths. Unless you live in Brave New World. Do you think Huxley was an unhinged conspiracy nut? I remember BNW included Numerology as one of the fields there scientists were investigating; the theory of numbers relating to biology and destiny or something like that. Three famous icons born in 1947 each died of cancer this year within days of each other, so is it reasonable to infer there's some significance there? Deep Thought fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 12:56
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Deep Thought posted:
Well yes actually, Brave New World was fuelled largely by Huxley's paranoid and pessimistic fears that hedonism and our desires for physical pleasure devoid of intellectual value would distort and ultimately twist society into a superficial nightmare. But even if Brave New World was a novel about sunshine and happiness, a clever bloke believing in numerology doesn't automatically confer validity to it. Isaac Newton was a pretty clever fellow too and he devoted years of his life to the pursuit of Alchemy. What you're doing is called the appeal to authority fallacy by the way.
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Jul 10, 2016 13:08
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Deep Thought posted:Three famous icons born in 1947 each died of cancer this year within days of each other, so is it reasonable to infer there's some significance there? No. How many 1947-born icons died of cancer last year? How many will die next year? Those are hard to answer just based on what qualifies as an icon, so how many 1947-born people in general died of cancer in those same few days? You keep rolling the dice long enough, coincidences like that happen. Eventually you get snake eyes three times in a row. It doesn't indicate a larger trend or that the dice are controlled by the Illuminati. It doesn't indicate anything other than the fact that people get old and eventually they die of something.
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Jul 10, 2016 13:39
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Deep Thought posted:I remember BNW included Numerology as one of the fields there scientists were investigating; the theory of numbers relating to biology and destiny or something like that. The Foundation books include psychohistory as a fields scientists investigate. Does that make psychohistory a valid thing in real life?
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Jul 10, 2016 14:59
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quote:numerology Quick joke: Two mathematicians are sitting on a bench and one turns to the other and says, "I used to believe that correlation implied causation. But I've recently completed a course on statistics and now I longer believe that." The other mathematician replies, "Sound like the course really helped." The first one looks at him and says, "Not necessarily." Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 15:11
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These people look like fun https://www.facebook.com/groups/1186692664680222/
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Jul 10, 2016 15:40
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Deep Thought posted:That 'G' is a motif in freemasonry? Self-evident I thought, it's in a lot of those square and compass designs. quote:Even if not, it makes work for the mind to notice numberological significance, and if that does not become an obession, it may be more helpful to the mind than wandering and distracting thoughts about good video game design. quote:Unless you live in Brave New World. Do you think Huxley was an unhinged conspiracy nut? I remember BNW included Numerology as one of the fields there scientists were investigating; the theory of numbers relating to biology and destiny or something like that.
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Jul 10, 2016 16:56
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There are a lot of very clever people, expert in their field, that are garden rock stupid when they step outside their specialisation.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:07
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fishmech posted:The Foundation books include psychohistory as a fields scientists investigate. Does that make psychohistory a valid thing in real life? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVJrJk3q3MA Yes- for what else are philosophy, history, morality, and other more qualitative aspects of humanity - Asimov was just positing some far future where the computers are far better and there is more data. What makes us real humans vs androids optimizing our cuteness and other aspects to survive and replicate?
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Jul 10, 2016 19:12
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McDowell posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVJrJk3q3MA Actually he was posing a far future where computers were significantly worse , dunno how you missed that.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:19
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NLJP posted:There are a lot of very clever people, expert in their field, that are garden rock stupid when they step outside their specialisation. This is very true, this essay on Uri Geller the menacer of spoons and how his defenders in the scientific community often had no background in the relevant fields (most were mathematicians) but that there trials and tests of psychic phenomena were often useless. http://libcom.org/library/i-was-psychic-fbi
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Jul 10, 2016 19:23
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blowfish posted:*furiously feeds events into all number systems from base 2 to base eleventy zillion to generate ~deeper patterns~* Don't forget adding and subtracting fudge factors that include most any number possible given arbitrary significance. Numerology is an amusing patterns game where you start with a conclusion and then randomly assemble significant numbers to get the conclusion. There's yet to be an unsolvable one yet! 
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Jul 10, 2016 19:24
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NLJP posted:There are a lot of very clever people, expert in their field, that are garden rock stupid when they step outside their specialisation. The US just had one running for president. I like how within like an hour of the Dallas shootings, Alex Jones was all "RACE WAR! YEEEHAWW!", which just reveals he's not just a sack of crap, but a racist sack of crap.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:52
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fishmech posted:Actually he was posing a far future where computers were significantly worse , dunno how you missed that. McDowell should go back to taking his meds. also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-brdBXYIGw is still the most accurate documentary about numerologists and  in general
suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 20:07
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Deep Thought posted:I don't think the idea that significance lies in numbers is any less crazy than putting it in the idea of theoretical 'God' particles. If the world can be thought of as governed by numbers in the form of dates, time and measurements, then it's possible for significance to arise in that framework, isn't it? The people who find spiritual significance in 'God' particles are the same dumb people who find significance in Numerology, yes. Both ideas are bunk. The scientist who coined the term 'God particle' wound up later regretting it because of how badly the media and crazy people wound up abusing that term, which was made up mostly as a joke. quote:Unless you live in Brave New World. Do you think Huxley was an unhinged conspiracy nut? I remember BNW included Numerology as one of the fields there scientists were investigating; the theory of numbers relating to biology and destiny or something like that. "I read about scientists in a book studying Numerology so that must give it legitimacy" -- wrong Numerology has no legitimacy, it's all bullshit quote:Three famous icons born in 1947 each died of cancer this year within days of each other, so is it reasonable to infer there's some significance there? No
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Jul 10, 2016 20:16
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There's some significance, but it's more along the lines of 'you can probably expect a bunch of people born in 1947 to start dying soon because they're 69, and cancer is the leading listed cause of death in Canada' (and I assume the USA, but I'm Canadian so I get those statistics shoved in my face more often).
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Jul 10, 2016 22:35
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Prism posted:There's some significance, but it's more along the lines of 'you can probably expect a bunch of people born in 1947 to start dying soon because they're 69, and cancer is the leading listed cause of death in Canada' (and I assume the USA, but I'm Canadian so I get those statistics shoved in my face more often). Yep. It's walking up to the broad side of a barn that's been absolutely coated in arrows, and drawing a bullseye. There's going to be some shots that are accurate by the standards of the bullseye because there's no room to put the bullseye such that there aren't.
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Jul 10, 2016 23:00
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blowfish posted:You don't understand science. You also don't understand the difference between lovely reporting about ~god particles~ and science. Those first two lines are right but until you can do the last one, your judgement on numerology is flawed. QuarkJets posted:"I read about scientists in a book studying Numerology so that must give it legitimacy" -- wrong All bullshit? Those would make famous last words for a cryptanalyst. Wait a minute.  Brain is trying to find the square root of Beverly Hills 91210, I suppose that illustrates your point. quote:No You seem sure, fair enough then. CaptainViolence posted:No. How many 1947-born icons died of cancer last year? How many will die next year? Those are hard to answer just based on what qualifies as an icon, so how many 1947-born people in general died of cancer in those same few days? You keep rolling the dice long enough, coincidences like that happen. Eventually you get snake eyes three times in a row. It doesn't indicate a larger trend or that the dice are controlled by the Illuminati. It doesn't indicate anything other than the fact that people get old and eventually they die of something. Ok. There's not any real significance just in three famous English people (can't really class Rickman as an icon in the same way) dying shortly after each other, plus Lemmy died a month before hand, so I concede. But don't you find it at all strange that Rickman played a Dr. Lazarus, Bowie made a song called Lazarus and Lemmy's death was reported in the RadioTimes by a 'Susasanna Lazarus' (ok that one is a stretch)? And there were other correlations like 69; the age they died (cept Lemmy who was four days over 70), being the zodiac sign of cancer when turned the right way, but it's headache enough without bringing astrology into it.
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Jul 10, 2016 23:09
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Don't you think it's a strange coincidence that given the giant amounts of things people run into contact with over the course of their entire lifetime we can find connections? No wait it's the law of large numbers. Also, if cryptanalysis worked the way numerology did they'd start with a ciphertext, pick a plaintext they wanted and then justify some insane encryption to go from one to the other.
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Jul 10, 2016 23:43
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Deep Thought posted:Ok. There's not any real significance just in three famous English people (can't really class Rickman as an icon in the same way) dying shortly after each other, plus Lemmy died a month before hand, so I concede. But don't you find it at all strange that Rickman played a Dr. Lazarus, Bowie made a song called Lazarus and Lemmy's death was reported in the RadioTimes by a 'Susasanna Lazarus' (ok that one is a stretch)? So they all died this year (except Lemmy), were all 69 when they died (except Lemmy) and all participated in a creative work in which they were connected with the word Lazarus (except Lemmy). Other interesting features of these deaths: They all had no facial hair (except Lemmy), all died east of the mississippi river (except Lemmy), were all born in London (except Lemmy), all starred in a movie in which Dan Blackner worked as a puppeteer (except Lemmy), were all not in the band Motorhead (except Lemmy), and were all not Lemmy (except Lemmy). Uncanny!
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Jul 10, 2016 23:45
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Waitaminute even weirder still Lemmy was born in 1945 and Alan Rickman was born in 1946! I think it's very strange that these three 1947-born entertainers managed to be born in different years?! Stronger evidence still that these deaths are meaningful (except Lemmy's).
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Jul 10, 2016 23:52
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As with many conspiracy theories, the perverse origin of numerology is antisemitism. The conspiracy nuts think that the Jews are up to something sneaky with their ancient Kabbalah, so they dive into this pseudo-mathematical nonsense to try and uncover the secret matzo recipes or whatever they think they'll find there.
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Jul 11, 2016 00:32
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Animal-Mother posted:As with many conspiracy theories, the perverse origin of numerology is antisemitism. The conspiracy nuts think that the Jews are up to something sneaky with their ancient Kabbalah, so they dive into this pseudo-mathematical nonsense to try and uncover the secret matzo recipes or whatever they think they'll find there. In fairness the bagel sandwich recipes are loving primo.
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Jul 11, 2016 00:39
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Deep Thought posted:Three famous icons born in 1947 each died of cancer this year within days of each other, so is it reasonable to infer there's some significance there? If you discount their early exposure to particulate global fallout from intra-atmospheric nuclear testing and long-term exposure to leaded gasoline fumes during the formative years of their lives, as well as the degrading quality of food over the same period, then sure, why not.
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Jul 11, 2016 00:44
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QuarkJets posted:Numerology is one of the most interesting conspiracy theory things because it's so much like playing Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, except then they take those relationships and assign serious significant meaning to them where none exists Its something that seems to pop out of paranoid schizophrenia a bit too. As I might have mentioned before my best friend growing up, became paranoid schizophrenic around about the age or 19, and it seemed to have this huge component of numerology , where he'd just scribble huge pages of crazy-math that would prove that he had a CIA bug in his head, or that his fight with his dad over weed was fortold in the bible and so on, I guess numerology is just patterns and a super associative style of thinking leads to lots of patterns.
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Jul 11, 2016 01:08
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Who is John Nash? You can only trust the numbers. Donald Trump is a winner and if I buy my scratch-offs...
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Jul 11, 2016 02:35
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Do you know why deaths happen in threes? Because you think they do. When presented with two deaths you'll wait for a third and go "yup, happens in threes." Then you'll quit expanding the set because you'll quit looking. When presented with four deaths you'll find some way to make one of them not count or just plain ignore it. This will mostly be subconscious; you won't realize you're doing it but you'll look at #1, #2, and #3 then stop looking. All numerology works the same way. Human brains look for patterns. Some patterns have a ton of meaning; others do not. Some can be used to predict things while others are just illusory patterns we noticed to make sense of the world.
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Jul 11, 2016 03:58
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What really gets me is the kind of numerology that gets mixed up in spellings, like counting the number of letters in a word, number of occurrences of a letter in a phrase, and so on. As though there's some great cosmic significance to the particular dialect of English we happen to speak and write today, what letters we use to encode sounds... ugh. I don't even want to dig up an example, the topic is just so exhausting to think about people being sucked into it.
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Jul 11, 2016 05:01
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Animal-Mother posted:As with many conspiracy theories, the perverse origin of numerology is antisemitism. The conspiracy nuts think that the Jews are up to something sneaky with their ancient Kabbalah, so they dive into this pseudo-mathematical nonsense to try and uncover the secret matzo recipes or whatever they think they'll find there. It's not all Kabbalah. Cultures have spontaneously invented forms of numerology throughout history and mental disorders which promote false pattern-detection result in numerological thinking pretty often. If the conspiracy nut in question is anti-semitic then their numerology might have something to do with uncovering the cabal, sure.
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Jul 11, 2016 05:59
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