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I'm enjoying how butthurt the black pen brigade are over Teresa May. Daily Mail comments have been apocalyptic. You'd think getting their way despite winning by a gnats fart on the back of a totally dishonest campaign would be enough, BUT NO they must have everything they want forever or it's literally the end of democracy.
Berious fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 09:29
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https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/752780583995080704
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Jul 12, 2016 09:29
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HJB posted:A lot of graduates are thick as poo poo, myself included. Plus, when taking a political decision into account, life experience is probably more useful than a degree in video game design or whatever. if life experience made any difference we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. this entire shitfest is basically another exciting chapter in Baby Boomers Ruin loving Everything but no not all leave voters are drooling dumb-asses and pigeonholing them like that is terrible. The people who continue to stand by that decision without regret even when facing down it's full consequences, however...
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Jul 12, 2016 09:29
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Trip report! I attended an emergency meeting of my local Branch yesterday... ...Which, we were informed at the meeting, has been suspended in the newest phase of a slap-fight between our CLP and the Branch. Allegations include threats of violence. (Looking around a pre-school auditorium filled with retirees, former and current teachers, and a lot of studenty types (including myself) that... was kinda hard to believe.) The branch has been dissatisfied for a while with how the CLP (doesn't) handle things - they feel the rules are often ignored, that new members aren't getting the support and instruction (e.g. What's the NEC, the CLP, what elections are there, what are my rights as a member) they deserve, etc. Also our local MP is quite old and has vultures circling him, people jockeying for his position whilst he's still kicking, which has turned into backstabbing and such. Now the branch doesn't know if they're allowed to use branch resources (like the mailing list) to tell people they're suspended... Our two local councillors attended and introduced themselves. 32 people were attending in total. It was a good mix of old and young members; of the 17 people who stated how long they'd been members whilst introducing themselves, 7 were in the double digits. Since we couldn't hold an official meeting, we made it an informal one of concerned party members. A veteran member, in a Superman-style "Jeremy Corbyn" shirt introduced a resolution of support for Corbyn, which was debated. Local members agreed that the current situation is incredibly tense, that they as members feel ignored by the PLP and as if Labour is becoming undemocratic. The Chair stated that as a broach church, all opinions are welcome, whether pro- or anti-Corbyn or otherwise. We had one member speak out that she didn't actually support Corbyn, but that she felt the way the PLP was knifing him and twisting every rule they can to depose him was disgusting. The resoulution passed unanimously and as soon as the branch is un-suspended will be submitted.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:30
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Breath Ray posted:i think its very telling - and sad- that you thinkof uneducated, insular, poor and old people as thick. so if someone didnt go to uni they shouldnt be allowed a vote? very dismissive isnt it. what about the sizeable proportion of young ppl who didnt bother voting? rather than throwing around vile epithets perhaps we could all benefit from dwelling briefly on how these communities can rescue themselves and become more prosperous. I hate to agree with a boring WUM but he's right. Being uneducated & Insular doesn't necessarily correlate with thick. The idea that working class people are thick is a particularly vicious & dangerous idea. Some try to stay informed with what's going on. Some honestly have too much in their life to bother. The problem isn't "thick" people, it's an education system which doesn't inform properly & a media that doesn't inform properly. False consciousness isn't a sign that you're thick, it's a sign that the left has utterly failed in getting it's message out.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:33
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when the going gets tough, the rich get going Now comes the true test of Tory leadership, in these trying times a leader must be willing to dig deep and hold fast to the priorities of a country and it's people: How are the poor and/or minorities to blame for this?
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Jul 12, 2016 09:35
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coffeetable posted:what is 'thick' if not uneducated I'm not particularly educated (5 GCSEs woo), thanks for telling me I'm thick.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:36
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forkboy84 posted:I hate to agree with a boring WUM but he's right. Being uneducated & Insular doesn't necessarily correlate with thick. The idea that working class people are thick is a particularly vicious & dangerous idea. Some try to stay informed with what's going on. Some honestly have too much in their life to bother. The problem isn't "thick" people, it's an education system which doesn't inform properly & a media that doesn't inform properly. False consciousness isn't a sign that you're thick, it's a sign that the left has utterly failed in getting it's message out. To be fair that message is also suppressed and besieged by bias and semantics from every angle. You're not wrong, though 
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Jul 12, 2016 09:36
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forkboy84 posted:I hate to agree with a boring WUM but he's right. Being uneducated & Insular doesn't necessarily correlate with thick. The idea that working class people are thick is a particularly vicious & dangerous idea. Some try to stay informed with what's going on. Some honestly have too much in their life to bother. The problem isn't "thick" people, it's an education system which doesn't inform properly & a media that doesn't inform properly. False consciousness isn't a sign that you're thick, it's a sign that the left has utterly failed in getting it's message out. Absolutely agree, thanks for speaking up. What is a wum though?
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Jul 12, 2016 09:38
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Don't know looks ready for office
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Jul 12, 2016 09:38
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Yinlock posted:if life experience made any difference we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. this entire shitfest is basically another exciting chapter in Baby Boomers Ruin loving Everything forkboy84 posted:I hate to agree with a boring WUM but he's right. Being uneducated & Insular doesn't necessarily correlate with thick. The idea that working class people are thick is a particularly vicious & dangerous idea. Some try to stay informed with what's going on. Some honestly have too much in their life to bother. The problem isn't "thick" people, it's an education system which doesn't inform properly & a media that doesn't inform properly. False consciousness isn't a sign that you're thick, it's a sign that the left has utterly failed in getting it's message out. goddamnedtwisto posted:I'm not particularly educated (5 GCSEs woo), thanks for telling me I'm thick. holy poo poo what do you all think a correlate is yes, there are plenty of smart uneducated people and plenty of dumb educated people. but on average people who have gone to university are smarter than those that didn't, and if you can think of a demographic statistic that better reflects our instinctive notions of intelligence then i would love to hear about it coffeetable fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 09:40
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coffeetable posted:holy poo poo what do you all think a correlate is I think people who say "I reckon" are the top minds as they always seem to know what's going on.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:42
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What's the metric for 'smartness', then? Is a creative writing degree worth more points than philosophy? Have you taken a yougov poll with regards to this?
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Jul 12, 2016 09:47
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Fans posted:I think people who say "I reckon" are the top minds as they always seem to know what's going on. I reckon you're right there
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Jul 12, 2016 09:47
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and if anyone says "but people are more complex than a few numbers, man!", they are also welcome to propose alternative methods for evaluating the lives of sixty million people simultaneously e: too loving late Percipient Badger posted:What's the metric for 'smartness', then? Is a creative writing degree worth more points than philosophy? Have you taken a yougov poll with regards to this?
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Jul 12, 2016 09:48
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UKMT: The Reckoning
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Jul 12, 2016 09:49
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I'm fairly certain getting all salty on the internet about intelligence demographics is how Hitler got started.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:50
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Pissflaps posted:A poll of 775 people out of 1.4 million has a margin of error of 3.52%. So yes, Len, it can. coffeetable posted:suppose each person has a probability p of supporting corbyn. then the number of 'i support corbyn' answers out of n phonecalls will follow a binomial distribution. you can approximate the binomial with a normal with the same mean and variance: This all assumes a representative sample. Without knowing in detail the demographics of the union membership it's impossible to know if the pollsters weightings are at all accurate. Furthermore we've seen in other polling on Labour members that Corbyn isn't doing well at the moment against a generic "other" candidate but as soon as you put a name to them they prefer him over them. I bet Eagle's number would be pathetic.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:53
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oh god
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Jul 12, 2016 09:54
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In fairness the Bloomberg article doesn't quite say that. It says UBS will move staff into the EU if Britain loses its passporting rights. That may or may not happen depending on how the negotiations go and London will lobby hard to keep it.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:54
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It's actually a good thing that people who've seen their livelihood get worse and worse over the last 40 years managed to shake the foundations of British society so fundamentally. The leave vote was a good thing in that regard. Britain is heading into a death spiral and this is a wake-up call. Also Labour is doomed, so until it reforms or splits you're going to be a single party state.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:54
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coffeetable posted:and if anyone says "but people are more complex than a few numbers, man!", they are also welcome to propose alternative methods for evaluating the lives of sixty million people simultaneously There's a good alternative, which is don't. I've done a bit of stats in my time and part of using numbers correctly is knowing when you don't have enough information to make a reliable conclusion. Such as, whether people without an education are thick
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Jul 12, 2016 09:54
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coffeetable posted:holy poo poo what do you all think a correlate is Are you sure that having a degree isn't just a proxy for age in this case? University attendance has gone up a lot in the last 50 years. It seems unwise to use education as a measure of intelligence when comparing two groups where one group had severely reduced opportunities to attend university.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:55
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Bedshaped posted:It's actually a good thing that people who've seen their livelihood get worse and worse over the last 40 years managed to shake the foundations of British society so fundamentally. The leave vote was a good thing in that regard.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:58
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Look we've had this debate before in the Brexit thread so I'll just summarize the endgame: Should there be intelligence tests for vote eligibility? The answer is no, case closed. We now return you to your country burning down, already in progress.
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Jul 12, 2016 09:58
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I'd like to propose that Leave voters are thick, not because they're apparently all old or poor or lack degrees, but because voting Leave was a loving stupid decision.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:01
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coffeetable posted:what is 'thick' if not uneducated Just because somebody has not been educated does not mean they cannot be educated. That latter is "thick". What it does mean is that they are less well informed. The better the information someone had access to, the less likely they were to vote Leave.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:02
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The referendum should have never been allowed or implemented in the first place. A complicated structure such as the EU and our existence in or out of it cannot be easily condensed into a simple Yes/No vote.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:04
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Breath Ray posted:Absolutely agree, thanks for speaking up. What is a wum though?
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Jul 12, 2016 10:05
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WMain00 posted:The referendum should have never been allowed or implemented in the first place. A complicated structure such as the EU and our existence in or out of it cannot be easily condensed into a simple Yes/No vote. Evidently it can
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Jul 12, 2016 10:05
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Saerdna posted:Evidently it can And as has been proven idiocy wins where the facts become obscured or misunderstood behind hubris and misinformation.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:08
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Breath Ray posted:i think its very telling - and sad- that you thinkof uneducated, insular, poor and old people as thick. so if someone didnt go to uni they shouldnt be allowed a vote? very dismissive isnt it. what about the sizeable proportion of young ppl who didnt bother voting? rather than throwing around vile epithets perhaps we could all benefit from dwelling briefly on how these communities can rescue themselves and become more prosperous.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:09
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WMain00 posted:The referendum should have never been allowed or implemented in the first place. A complicated structure such as the EU and our existence in or out of it cannot be easily condensed into a simple Yes/No vote. It can be, and was. You're just saying it shouldnt have bexause you didnt get your own way.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:11
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Class is more significant factor in a person's education level than their level of "intelligence". Only the upper classes should be allowed to vote.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:13
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Toplowtech posted:The other better interpretation of that data is that people who don't enjoy the bourgeois benefits of Europe on a professional or touristic level didn't see any personal reason to vote Remain so they just voted Leave. A similar pattern emerged during IndyRef in Scotland. The people I knew that favoured independence generally were less well off so weren't frightened by the economic risks and had relatively little "British" social capital, i.e. all their friends were Scottish, they had never lived outside Scotland etc. I think that although they didn't consider themselves particularly British the concept of other people feeling is fairly easily understood and a lot less abstract than being in the EU and considering yourself European and so that's why we didn't see the big swing to the status quo in the EU referendum like we did for the independence referendum.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:13
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/02/brexit-referendum-voters-surveyquote:“After correcting for over-reporting [people always say they vote more than they do], we found that the likely turnout of 18- to 24-year-olds was 70% – just 2.5% below the national average – and 67% for 25- to 29-year-olds.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:14
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WMain00 posted:And as has been proven idiocy wins where the facts become obscured or misunderstood behind hubris and misinformation. Reducing politics to "facts" and "intelligent choices" is to ignore that politics is a conflict between class interests, there are no enlightened beings elevated high above the common masses. If you think you are, you're pretty thick
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Jul 12, 2016 10:16
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coffeetable posted:holy poo poo what do you all think a correlate is Well, how closely their views align with my views is obviously the best method of ascribing intelligence. The closer, the smarter. Obviously as my views align with my views 100%, I'm at the top of the intelligence tree. Yes, plenty of poorly educated people believe dumb things, but then so do lots of people who went to Eton & then Oxbridge. Austerity is currently the by-word for how our government governs, and while you can say a lot of negative things about them you really can't question their calibre of education. Thick is a lazy pejorative that makes it far too easy to deflect from the actual reasons why so much of the populace are under-informed, that's why I'm not particularly comfortable with you painting with it in such broad strokes. Rather than dismiss people who voted for something dumb as thick, we need to look at the root causes of why they voted for something that is against their best interests, & the interests of their local community. And how to counter-act that going forward. Honestly, I'd have thought someone with a university education would have worked that out but I suppose it's not as satisfying as smugly looking down your nose at people.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:19
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Hence, either democracy should be adandoned, or only the intelligent should be allowed to make these decisions. I'm being flippant admittedly. 
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Jul 12, 2016 10:20
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Paul.Power posted:Wind-Up Merchant, i.e. troll. Ah, thanks Paul. I think ppl cry troll when they disagree with someone but they they run out of arguments or patience. I understand the impulse but imo you don't want to see that in a discussion thread where disagreements are going to be common.
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Jul 12, 2016 10:20
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